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[Amusing] My Achievements. Let me show you them.
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SouthJag
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Old Aug 4, 2008, 12:29 AM Local time: Aug 4, 2008, 12:29 AM #1 of 54
My Achievements. Let me show you them.

Inspired by a thread derailment.

So, let this thread serve as your battleground to TOTAL ACHIEVEMENT** WHORE victory. Microsoft had this whole "achievement" concept locked down quick, what with offering players no real incentive except an ever-increasing number that lets gamers say "oh hay i play moar than u, so let me show u mai acheevmints." Sony's cashing in on this cow too, with trophies. I'm sure Nintendo won't be too far behind; something like little Mii Medals? I called it.

Anyway, some people like them and others hate/don't care about them. I don't really give a shit about these point-tally systems, since ultimately they don't amount to anything other than bragging rights. If Microsoft and Sony were to give free XBLive Points or PSN Store dollaz I'd be down -- there'd be a valid reason to shoot for those (oftentimes horrendously difficult or ridiculously easy) little victories.

So, whatcha think. Achievements? Trophies? Mii Medals? None at all? Also, if you care to expand on the discussion at hand, (Achievement Unlocked 500G: Rhymed in a Sentence) tell us your most memorable/hardest/easiest achievement you know of.

**"Achievement" will refer to both Xbox 360 Achievements Points and PlayStation 3 Trophies. It's an awfully convenient word for this thread.

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Old Aug 4, 2008, 01:28 AM Local time: Aug 4, 2008, 12:28 AM 2 #2 of 54
I like them. They're nothing more than a unified unlockable system that spans multiple games. Instead of having seperate games track whatever you're doing (Kostaki's Battle Trophies example is good, one could mention the Challenge Board in Brawl too, there's plenty of others), it's just simplified and easier to deal with.

The only problem with the system is that too many of them are ridiculous. Some games get it right (Crackdown, Forza 2, Bioshock), some get it so-so (Blue Dragon, Over-G Fighters), and some get it horribly wrong (Avatar, Chromehounds). It's a crapshoot as to what's worth going for and what's not, but that's like a lot of unlockables in traditional systems too.

The thing is, they're only worth going for if you have fun doing it. You don't NEED a reward for doing it. Unlocking them should be the fun of it. If you don't enjoy it, don't do it. It seems silly to dislike them and think they detract from something. Just don't go for it if you don't care. I don't see how it's ruining the game.

Unless it's multi and people disrupt games trying to get them, that's a big problem. Boosting's all fine if you're not annoying other people doing it, but if you are, that's just out and out griefing.

I'd like some more Trophy support on PS3 titles too, by the way.

Stupid achievement kid memes inbound in 3 posts or less.

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Old Aug 4, 2008, 01:47 AM Local time: Aug 4, 2008, 12:47 AM #3 of 54
Achievements are fucking stupid. You hear the argument of "it gives you something to do in the game once you've beaten it" but I just don't buy that. You know what should make a game worth playing? THE FUCKING GAME.

Achievements are just another bullshit concept introduced to the industry that serves no purpose beyond artificially inflating game play so that designers don't have to sink as much effort into adding actual substance to the games they make.

Sony should never have even wasted their time.

I don't think that achievements shouldn't exist, because they don't actively detract from anything--though an argument can be made that they let designers be lazy via said artificial inflation of game time--but personally I think they're most idiotic. They don't unlock anything in game, they don't effect anything in game... it's just some superfluous bullshit.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.


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OmagnusPrime
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Old Aug 4, 2008, 01:50 AM Local time: Aug 4, 2008, 06:50 AM #4 of 54
I wrote a piece that I put in my gurnal that pretty much spells out how I feel about achievements, but as Skills says, it's got to be about the fun of it for me.

I certainly do like going for achievements, but only if they're something reasonable and challenging in a fun way. The one area I'm big against them on is multiplayer achievements, for the reason that they tend to alter how people play online and can cause rather selfish or idiotic behaviour as people try to complete achievements.

I've not seen the implementation of trophies on PS3 yet, (not sure I've updated my PS3 firmware actually), so I'm not sure how well they've done that.

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Old Aug 4, 2008, 02:09 AM Local time: Aug 4, 2008, 03:09 PM #5 of 54
Quote:
The thing is, they're only worth going for if you have fun doing it. You don't NEED a reward for doing it. Unlocking them should be the fun of it. If you don't enjoy it, don't do it. It seems silly to dislike them and think they detract from something. Just don't go for it if you don't care. I don't see how it's ruining the game.
Quite the opposite for me. Most of the time, I'll go for an achievement only if there are rewards for it. I don't find any point of doing so otherwise. True, it should be fun doing it, but what you're doing is simply a part of playing the game. If there aren't any rewards, isn't it more fun to play the game normally than playing on a strict run to meet the requirements of something?

If I really like a reward for an achievement, I'd bust my ass trying to get it, just to enjoy the game further with the rewards later. The achievement rewards on Mass Effects were awesome for me, enhances the gameplay with extras. Rachet and Clank games have in-game skill point system too, and they are actually fun doing, unique since you won't uncover the game's hidden details on a normal run.

I'd actually take the final rankings of MGS4 as a form of achievement myself. I love the rewards the game offer, and with that, I busted my ass and perfected my save file in 10 days of the game's release (save uploaded on gamefaqs).

Then again, I'm the type of person that saves the best for last with a combination of a perfectionist when it comes to games. I don't mind forcing myself through something, so long I enjoy the end result. In the case of SCIV, I got honors for rewards at first, but didn't want to leave it half done, so I completed the list.

As for system based achievements, there are no rewards whatsoever, making it a nuisance to enjoy the game without feeling like you're skipping out on a portion.

I was speaking idiomatically.
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Old Aug 4, 2008, 03:52 AM #6 of 54
Call of Duty 4 on veteran is something I will NEVER do again. The entire ferris wheel sniper level was just complete bullshit. All that headache for almost a 1000 pts. At least with Ninja Gaiden II there is some joy in besting impossible odds. Cod4 Veteran was just unfair at times with endless waves, checkpoints that didn't work and incredible precision in both gunfire and grenade tossing from the AI.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Last edited by Ramenbetsu; Aug 4, 2008 at 03:55 AM.
Jessykins
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Old Aug 4, 2008, 05:22 AM Local time: Aug 4, 2008, 03:22 AM #7 of 54
I could take them or leave them. Like Deni said, they are mostly pointless, and have the potential to do more harm to games themselves. And like Scarlet said, Mass Effect did it pretty nicely. Rewarding you with the ability to use certain weapons or skills on second playthroughs and as classes restricted from those types is rather nice (Hello assault rifle wielding adept!) And I know I'd rather stab myself than do the entire Tower of Lost Souls to unlock a fancy pair of panties for my character in Soul Calibur IV. In these cases, Achievements actually made things more fun (or easier).

As for achievements I really enjoyed, the Conan game had no benefit for unlocking them, but they are fun as fuck to get. 100 dismemberments? 500 dismemberments? 1000 dismemberments? Decapitate a captain with a shield? Kill 50 enemies by BOULDER THROW? Fuck yes, give me a reason to keep doing the first few levels over again with Song of Death on so I feel like a marauding barbarian for realz.

Edit: The great thing about chopping off 1000 limbs isn't chopping off 1000 limbs, it's showing everyone online that I did.

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Last edited by Jessykins; Aug 4, 2008 at 05:39 AM.
DarkMageOzzie
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Old Aug 4, 2008, 05:41 AM #8 of 54
I like them and at the same time hate them. Getting some of the harder ones has a little sense of accomplishment. I also like that it kinda gives me a record of what I've done in a game even if I no longer have the said game.

The thing I hate about them, are the insanely hard ones. Ones that are so hard that I know I'll never get them or just that it will be so frustrating that it's not worth trying. Like getting a gold on every sim disc in Marvel Ultimate Alliance. It's hard enough just to get a bronze on some of them.

Then there are ones in some games like win 50 ranked matches in a row. This is a case of achievements hurting the game. I don't know how any developers could have thought something like that was a good idea. Games are ment to be fun, but win 50 in a row? That just encourages damn near everyone to be as cheap as humanly possible which just takes all the fun out of it. This was especially true in Smackdown vs RAW 07 where players would just do the same uncounterable move over and over till they won.

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Old Aug 4, 2008, 06:15 AM Local time: Aug 4, 2008, 09:15 PM #9 of 54
I like when games take the piss out of it, like The Simpsons Game unlocking an Achievement for pressing start on the title screen, or Flaout: Ultimate Carnage giving you sympathy Achievements for restarting a race a certain amount of times or getting taken out in the final stretch.

Aside from that they usually just get in the fucking way of playing a game.

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Last edited by Infernal Monkey; Aug 4, 2008 at 06:18 AM.
Kagosin
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Old Aug 4, 2008, 06:42 AM #10 of 54
They don't unlock anything in game, they don't effect anything in game... it's just some superfluous bullshit.
I think it was stated earlier, but Mass Effect actually rewards you.

As for Achievements, they're a 2nd thought to me. I play games, because I want to, not because said game gives easy points. Though, to say achievements are completely wrong is kinda saying that extra stuff in a game is wrong because instead of an in-game bonus mission there's achievements more or less. Now this varies from game to game, and Skills explained it earlier, about how some games can get it right, while others are completely horrible.

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Last edited by Kagosin; Aug 4, 2008 at 06:48 AM.
Fluffykitten McGrundlepuss
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Old Aug 4, 2008, 07:32 AM Local time: Aug 4, 2008, 01:32 PM #11 of 54
I rarely go out of my way to unlock achievements. Anyone with access to my Live game list can see that the vast majority of the ones I have are those you pickup through normal play. Grid does well on this front as there's only a few you have to actively seek out (90 seconds round that long-ass Jap circuit for example, I had a go, managed just over 2 minutes and realised that life's too short to bother. I did however bother to get the last man standing as that was fun to get) and those are ones which you actually get a sense of achievement for unlocking.

As Skills said, some games get it more right than others. Crackdown had great achievements with a mix of during the normal course of play ones (Boosting your stats kinda things), encouragement to replay (The multiplayer and timetrial ones) and a few silly ones (Spearing people to a car with the harpoon gun). Frontlines is another game with a good balance giving you most for just playing through, then a load for finishing levels without getting killed or under a certain time limit and some online efforts that are fairly un-boostable, given that you need at least four people to start a game, other people can join at will and the amount of bullets flying around mean that sneaking off to a corner to take it in turns killing each other 10 times in a row is likely to attract someone in a tank looking for easy kills. When I got the achievement for being on the winning team without dying once it was through picking decent sniper points and moving around a lot, not by just hiding at the back somewhere as some kids do. I unlocked the highest score in a ranked match at the same time and yes, I had quite a sense of achievement afterwards. It makes me laugh when people boost the secret "Noob" achievement you get for getting killed 10 times without killing anyone as you don't get any points for it.

For me achievement points are an interesting way of tracking how much of a game you've busted open, when they're done well. If people want to go nuts unlocking them all for every game that's their perogative and whilst it is a bit annoying when people are detracting from a multiplayer game by AP boosting, those same people often give you lots of opportunity for easy kills and the comedy of hearing some whiny teenager complaining that you interupted their kill streak with your airstrike.

I think once you get past the childish need to unlock all of them, they're harmless and often a good way to get your interest back in a game you might otherwise have abandoned.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.
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Old Aug 4, 2008, 08:17 AM Local time: Aug 4, 2008, 08:17 AM #12 of 54
On the 360 side of things, Mass Effect actually gives you in-game rewards for getting Achievements, such as extra EXP gain, more health, etc. On the PS3 side of things, Uncharted has a similar concept -- new weapons, cheats like one-shot kills, unlockable characters and tons of concept art and movies.

I love a reward-based system all day long, but yeah Achievements for the sake of Achievements is kinda dumb.

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Old Aug 4, 2008, 08:39 AM Local time: Aug 4, 2008, 03:39 PM #13 of 54
I'm not crazy about achievements, but as far as I have an opinion on them, I feel the complete opposite of Shin about them. To me having any "achievements" that amount to "play the game" are stupid. If I'm playing the game anyway, getting rewarded for that is childish and condescending, like the game designers felt the need to pat me on the back to affirm that I'm doing a good job.

My favorite game with mostly good achievements is Dead Rising. The achievements there are (almost) all kinda crazy and out of the way (there's one where you have to knock down enough zombies with a giant parasol, and one where you only rescue female survivors and kill the males for a "Frank The Pimp" achievement, as two examples), so you can have a bit of fun trying to discover them.

I'd never go online and try to find out secret achievements or how to get them though, that's just lame and defeats the whole point.

I was speaking idiomatically.
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Old Aug 4, 2008, 09:27 AM Local time: Aug 4, 2008, 08:27 AM #14 of 54
I generally like achievements, because they are generally harmless. Like many people have said, the achievements in Mass Effect are pretty much top-notch, in that they provide actual, in-game rewards for completing various achievements. I think that some of the best achievements are ones that prompt you to play the game in a different way than you otherwise would. For example, there is no way that I would have used a light machine gun in Vegas 2 multiplayer if there hadn't been an achievement attached to them, just because LMGs generally go against my style of shootin game play, but it turns out that they are pretty decent weapons. Same goes for pistols on that game. I'd have never known just how deadly it could be wielding a pistol, but sure enough, I'm running around with a pistol, leading the room in kills. Multiplayer achievements can be good if they don't require you to do stuff that is silly. Getting X number of kills with Y weapon type is fine. Any multiplayer achievements that require you to play ranked games, however, are not fine.

Also, achievements that require the Live Vision camera are lame. Yes, the implementation of the camera in Burnout Paradise is awesome. No, there should not be achievements attached to it.

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Old Aug 4, 2008, 10:15 AM #15 of 54
I'm with surasshu. Geometry Wars Evolved 2 is an example of achievements done right. They're (generally) not just "Score this many points" or "Beat the game; rather, they're fun challenges that you wouldn't normally do just playing the game. It's a nice way to change things up, and I find myself actually wanting to complete all of them (which is not normal for me when it comes to achievements).

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Old Aug 4, 2008, 10:41 AM #16 of 54
I have no problem with the idea of achievements but I don't like a lot of them. Things like "Kill 50 people with a gun" are great but some games have things like "Kill 1,000 aliens on July 17th, 2009 while the moon is out and not covered by clouds". What is that shit? I don't feel like playing a game billions of times just to get something stupid and awful.

Games on 360 that had some good achievements were DooM (SHOOT THINGS. BEAT LEVELS.), Call Of Duty 2 (SHOOT NAZIS. BEAT HARD LEVELS) and Bourne Conspiracy (BEAT THE SHIT OUT OF PEOPLE. FIND LITTLE BOOKS.)
.
I'll also admit to games that have either a billion tiny achievements (5 here, 5 there) or the occasional one that has an unusual number piss me off.

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Last edited by Misogynyst Gynecologist; Aug 4, 2008 at 11:14 AM.
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Old Aug 4, 2008, 10:50 AM #17 of 54
Achievements add to a lot of replay value, which I approve of. I'll beat a game, then play it again to grab those achievement points. I can't tell you how many times I've played Dead or Alive 4 online just to try to get that A rank.

However, multiplayer achievements suck for the most part. What really sucks is if there's an online multiplayer achievement that you're trying to get, yet you happen to be the only person on the planet playing that game online.

I'll look forward to Sony's trophies when they implement them for games I'll actually play. I'm really surprised they didn't do it for MGS4.

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Old Aug 4, 2008, 02:12 PM 6 #18 of 54
Has a game ever required you to get achievements?

No.

I don't understand why this is an argument that needs to be won. Just like playing a game to 100% or learning a character's moves in a fighting game so well that they can play blindfolded, whether or not a player gets achievements is their decision, and a way for the player to enjoy the game. The achievements don't get in the way of you playing the game the way you see fit, so why get so mad at them?

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Old Aug 4, 2008, 05:38 PM Local time: Aug 4, 2008, 10:38 PM #19 of 54
Has a game ever required you to get achievements?

No.

I don't understand why this is an argument that needs to be won.
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Old Aug 4, 2008, 05:44 PM 1 #20 of 54
Achievements are a joke. They are the worst thing to come out of this gaming generation, aside from general online faggotry.

Judging from the quality of achievements out there, developers don't really give a shit, and know full well that it's just another gimmick of Live. They simply put in the most obnoxious challenges, then get out a lawn chair and laugh, because they know you freaks will actually go out of your way to complete it.

I remember when developers would put in real challenges with an actual purpose, and you would actually get rewards. Now, you get a worthless number next to a disgustingly compressed and pixel-neighbor resized "gamerpic." Am I cool yet.

I simply try to avoid 360 ports when I can now, and achievements are to blame. Oh, is it absurd. Certainly not. You may say that achievements are completely optional, but not really---there is almost always a gigantic, stupid screen reminding me that I still have 500 achievements to unlock.

The only achievement that matters is actually learning the game, enjoying its depth, and ultimately appreciating the developer's work. Too bad all the dumbfuck gamers of today are too busy finding exploits on Gamefaqs to increase their faggotscore.

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OmagnusPrime
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Old Aug 4, 2008, 05:52 PM Local time: Aug 4, 2008, 10:52 PM 7 #21 of 54
They are the worst thing to come out of this gaming generation, aside from general online faggotry.
Says the pot to the mirror.

You may say that achievements are completely optional, but not really---there is almost always a gigantic, stupid screen reminding me that I still have 500 achievements to unlock.
Are you a fucking idiot? No really, please answer me this. There are sometimes screens in games that tell you about the achievements. More often than not they are shortcuts to the dashboard blade. However, in every single fucking case where this is available it's an option you have to purposefully navigate to. The one game you could level some criticism at is GRID, which tells you random stats as it's loading and of those that have some tie to achievements it tells you your progress towards the achievement.

At no point has a game I have played thus far ever, not once, jumped up in the middle of my game and gone:

YOU ARE FUCKING SHIT WHY HAVE YOU NOT DONE MY ACHIEVEMENTS YET YOU SAD SACK OF PISS. GET ON WITH IT ALREADY

You know why? Because it's fucking optional. It's also completely up to you whether you want to navigate, on purpose like, to the screen that will tell you how many achievements you do and don't have.

(I'll give you a clue to the earlier question, the answer is 'yes')

I was speaking idiomatically.
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Old Aug 4, 2008, 05:54 PM Local time: Aug 4, 2008, 03:54 PM #22 of 54
Achievements done right: TF2 Pyro patch (for the most part).
Achievements done wrong: TF2 Medic patch (for the most part).

Assist a medic in killing five people in one life. WRONG
Ignite five cloaked enemy spies. CORRECT

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?
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Old Aug 4, 2008, 05:55 PM Local time: Aug 4, 2008, 05:55 PM #23 of 54
Uncharted: Drake's Fortune trophies now available!

Quote:
"The patch adding Trophies to Uncharted: Drake's Fortune has finally been released, offering PlayStation 3 owners even more reason to play the critically beloved action-adventure game.

48 trophies are now available for the title: 47 merely convert the game's "Medals" into the new system's arbitrary points, while the final one offers players a Platinum Trophy for acquiring the other 47.

Unfortunately, any Medals already earned by Uncharted fans will not be automatically converted to Trophies by the downloadable update, forcing those who desire Trophies to replay the game."


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Playing --
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MegaMan 9, Mirror's Edge
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Old Aug 4, 2008, 06:18 PM #24 of 54
They are the worst thing to come out of this gaming generation, aside from general online faggotry.
(I wrote something here but Omagnus already jumped on that)

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Old Aug 4, 2008, 07:19 PM #25 of 54
Megalith's just pissed I overtook him on GFF's leaderboard last night. Why lie.

I didn't really understand the whole achievement thing until I actually got a 360, but they're surprisingly addictive. Most of them may not do anything, but for some reason it does add incentive to enjoy some games more thoroughly. I likely never would've bothered with all the rooftop races or climbed to the top of the Agency Tower in Crackdown. Not because they weren't fun things to do, but because it gets tedious after awhile if there's no reason at all.

I don't care for achievements like "play through the entire game with ____ weapon" or ones that require beating the game multiple times, but since they're entirely optional they're not something I get upset about either. If one seems like it wouldn't be any fun I just don't go for it.

Jam it back in, in the dark.
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