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Casuals are cackling with glee but they don't really see the full picture. The 25 player limit does not benefit casuals. Raids will still take hours of work and hours more outside raids to farm raid materials. The only thing this does is split guilds that have been raiding as a 40 man for two years. I don't play because WoW itself is fun. I play because I enjoy raiding with the 39 other people I've met and become very good friends with over the course of my playtime. If the explodes because half of it can never get into the A team I no longer have a reason to play. There's nowhere I can't reach.
Last edited by Six Machine; Aug 13, 2006 at 12:28 PM.
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I know exactly what Six Machine is talking about. It will probably fuck up 40 man guilds. The smaller, more dedicated ones.
Same with the guild I was in, we always had like 60 signups and only 40 could be selected, with a few spares in case people had to go early, by lowering the spaces to 25 your in even bigger problems. People will get tired of it eventually and reform or quit. Seen it all too often. Making a second group...no. It's plausible in theory but will never work out that way, your never gonna have the exact classes you need for the second raidgroup, and if it is it's usually a crappy leftover raid. I've seen it all the time with the 20 man raids. This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it. Soldier: Prepare yourself, rebel scum!! Arngrim : (These slipshod soldiers think they can call me "rebel scum"?) |
I like how everyone assumes that all people who play casually think the same. This is the same, sad-ass response I've seen past few days on the wow forums. It's raiding. DURR with just 25 instead of 40. Why are people so hellbent in thinking this is going to destroy guilds? Just because someone can't raid 40-man it's an automatic lose situation. What about ZG and AQ20? Those aren't 40 man, but they're still difficult to those who first start the encounters in there, not people who go in after they're in a guild that has it on 2 hour farm status. It takes time and effort to get things this way. This is everything the hardcore raiders have been telling people like me. "You need to work to get your epics, time and effort." So now magically I can't comprehend this "time and effort" when it's actually balanced out to where I can now enjoy content and possibly become geared in stuff from these new instances, unlike MC/BWL/Naxx (WHICH WILL STILL REMAIN 40 MAN) because I run a smaller guild. All this does is allow for the guilds with smaller people, that want to experience end content, but dont' want to deal with the drama of a huge raiding guild. The high school drama queen crap about breaking up guilds is getting to be rather old. Everyone acts like they have to "fire" people now. This isn't a job, and this isn't the end of the world. And yes, I understand all too well, I was actually in a raiding guild once before I left because I couldn't stand the drama over everything in it. Geting 40 people sucks to get together, 25 people aren't going to suck as bad. I'm sure Tigole and Furor will bring out a 40 man raid instance just for "ZOMG HARDCORE ELITE ASSFUCKS" who are doing the biggest crying in right now, because they're scared that they will be stuck with the "b-team" if their guild decides to break up into 2 guilds that run these instances. This is the true test of guild friendships. I see it as progression, as do alot of full-time hardcore raiders as well. (I'm a weekend raider now :P) I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body? |
I was speaking idiomatically. |
Ok, I'm going to ask this and be just as polite as I can be:
WHO FUCKING SAID ANYTHING ABOUT THIS BEING EASIER?!?! I hear all this horseshit about people going "LOLOL IT'S NOT GOING TO BE EASIER." DUUUUUUUUUUH. Yeah, uh no shit. Everything is going to be difficult when first experienced. It takes time to learn, much like everything else did.
Bottom line, is... IT'S NOT A BIG DEAL. People are making it like Blizzard has personally shit on them. If you're worried about who you're going to cut from your guild, because it has to be only the "ELITE BEST PLAYERZ" now in the guild (because you know, it's impossible to have an A-Team and B-team in a large raiding guild, that has shit on farm status for their alt's alts.) then maybe these friendships just aren't as "tight" as people once thought. Every excuse I've seen boils down to people are scared that one 25 man run are going to get geared faster than the other 25 man run in a huge guild, or someone will be stuck with someone that they don't like. It's just drama bullshit, that's all it ever is with this game. So what if the instances are 25 man capped in TBC? It's not for the true "casualer" player anyway (which the word casual has seem to be thrown around in the typical misused fashion again :\ ) but for those who have small guilds of 15-20 people of close friends, and don't want to go to a bigger guild while wanting to experience content. I know the hardcore people are going to tear through these places. t just baffles me taht everyone knew the expansion was going to be catered to the non-hardcore raiders. When it's announced what it entails, people are acting like bitches about it. :\ What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now? |
FELIPE NO
Last edited by Six Machine; Aug 14, 2006 at 09:22 AM.
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So.. it's ok to fuck people over for a year and a half, because they aren't in raiding guilds, but now that the do level caps, it's not ok? Because those people are raiders?
Please, try to help me understand this. From what i've seen posted and discussed: A. Now all raiding guilds magically have only 40 people in their guild MAX, that raid with them everynight. They don't have 41 members or 60 people in their guild. It's all down to 40 people in the guild now. (despite some saying that they have anywhere from 50-60 people online at any given raid night) What happened to the other ones who were online and told "Sorry, everyone's here. We don't need you to be online." ? B. Now it's about friendship, when half the people in a raiding guild could care less who's in there as long as they have 40 people on and can raid. (Not all guilds are like this, but I have seen some that are.) I am so fucking sick of everyone always assuming the casual base and what they want, no really, I am. I play casually. Why? Because I hate the rules and bullshit that goes on in high-end raiding guilds. I chose not to go to one (even being offered to join them) Why? Because I don't need that headache. But because I chose to not go to one, I'm not allowed to see the new content because "lol u don't raid naxx so ur casual and will never set foot in these places" Assumptions are nice aren't they? The point of this was to make content better accessable to those who don't have the time nor care to join a raiding guild, and are in a smaller guild of friends. Now that it's been out there, all the major elite e-peen infested raiders who think gear and epix are more important than anything else (the whole "he who has the epix first is god" mentality) are the ones getting bent out of shape over this. So they start feeding lines "It'll still be too hard for you casual assholes" and "You'll never see this content." Sounds pretty much like a cop out because there aren't any 40 mans planned after the expansion for some time. :\
Now's not the time to for some guilds to start having a "heart" for their players, when there are people in that guild who do nothing but sit on their ass, hoping that they can get in a raid. Hoping an A-Team member doesn't show and it's their turn on a list. To most guilds, those people are nothing but filler. Also if that douchebag from DnT wants to leave and throw a temper tantrum like Furor (which is what he's doing) because now there's no content to make him better, as well as about 4 upgrades higher in terms of gear, than a person who plays like me, then he's nothing but a fucking baby. Plain and simple. The non-raiding/casual/casual raiders wanted content to fit them. They got it and now it's one big emo My Space about "friends" now. The really true and genuine hardcore players have seen past this. They see if as a new oppertunity for some people who feel left out in their raids to be able to join in and become equal to them. The ones who are fucking loot whoring whiners who think they deserve everything first, fast and the only person in the world to have it, are now screaming about "friends". Friends that they've probably made while screwing other friends in a smaller guild over. Sorry man, but with all the whining I've seen the past few days on the WoW forums, this is this gist of it. I understand that it's going to suck to organize 2+ 25 man raids. But most raid leaders hate organizing 40 (I know some who do, and I know it's a headache myself) they see this as a blessing. Why can't other people? Oh because this game is about friends and not about "loot", right? :\ What, you don't want my bikini-clad body? |
Uh.. who said anything about rolling? :P I'm just talking about all the people who fear this change and that this is going to cause guilds to explode or whatever. Jam it back in, in the dark. |
Also, screwing someone over doesn't mean Blizzard should screw the other side of the field. That's idiotic logic. The smart thing would have been to have equal amounts of both content from the get go instead of having to release a ton of raid dungeons after release.
There's nowhere I can't reach.
Last edited by Six Machine; Aug 14, 2006 at 07:24 PM.
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I don't care if someone's geared past than me. The fact you brought up him being geared past me and that he will take down Illidan in a month (providing he doesn't follow through the threat and quit) is irrelavant. (I actually find that as a sad attempt at flaming too. I don't care about other guilds progression, I care about my own) It's the generalization that because we don't have Naxx on farm status, then we will never see the content. That is essentially what is being said from the forum trolls and "people who speak for all raiders".
Let me clarify. "Casuals are not going to learn these instances, because that they don't raid now." That's a pretty big assumption. Like saying that they won't be able to advance because they'll never learn. That's not 100% true. I like to learn instances. I just don't get to it as fast as the super hardcore raiders. This does NOT make me a "gimp stupid retard lol casual player" because of that fact. It's insulting to be told I can't do something, when I haven't tried the new stuff yet. Because I don't spend 6-8 hours a night raiding, doesn't mean I'll never see the content, or finish it "ZOMG SO FAST". It'll take time for me to get there. No one has EVER denied that fact. Point is, I will get there. Just because I'm not in a pompus-ass "if I can't have my 40 man main raid run I'm ruined" guild, doesn't make my time and effort any more or less than theirs. Also, I like your last line, about me being one of the least qualified to know what raiders hate and don't hate. Same can be said to you and your "casual" arguement. Kettle. Pot. both black, both redundant. The content they got in TBC will fit them. How so? Because now instead of having to join a raiding guild, they have access to it without going to one. This doesn't mean "OMG EASIER LOLZ" It just means that they have a greater chance to go there now under their own circumstances, instead of relying on joining a bigger guild and leaving their friends for "phat lewtz". There will be people who still won't go to these instances and still bitch about "easy epix". Then those need to get out and stop ruining the game for the casual gamer who yearns to advance. This is going to be challenging for everyone. Even hardcore raiders like yourself. It'll only be "easy" when the encounters are learned and completed. This applies to all games. Not just the Raiders of WoW. I, for one, will enjoy the content that I can get to, because I like casual raiding. But, there's no such thing. it's RAID 40 MAN OR DIE now, right? Arguements can be thrown back and forth like this. Fact is. Changes happened. Everyone will have to adapt. This time it's just changed on who has done the most crying about it. It won't matter anyway, with the new level difficulty scale, you guys will still be on top anyway. It'll be like "LOLOL you finished Illidan at level 70? ::LAFF:: we did it at level 75 difficulty level LAWLS" This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it. |
Raiders do not care if their raids are 10 man or 25 man or 40 man or 500 man. It was the fact that for two years they built their guilds around endgame requiring 40 people. Now Blizzard has suddenly changed this and most endgame guilds either have to recruit a ton of people to try running two raids (which will not work) or tell half their guild to fuck off. Either way, raiders are getting screwed. Had they released the game with a raid cap of 25 to begin with, nobody would have a problem right now.
I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body? |
(condensed it)
I really don't understand what is so hard about splitting up two core teams for the guild. Honestly. You can scream all the insults you can. You can call me a "casual fucking noob asshole that will never understand because I'll never get out of UBRS because I fail at being hardcore" all you want to. I'm actually trying to find a reason here, other than the same "2 years with the same people" arguement. There's a 40 player base core in a hardcore guild. You are now offered 3 choices after the expansion. 1. Split them up into two core groups. 2. Cut 15 "good friends" 3. adapt and try to maximize the level cap to your guild's fullest potential. Why are cutting these people an option if they're friends? What makes it so hard to grasp that raiding can be done with less than 40? What makes 40 special? Because that's the number blizzard first implemented? (You've already answered this by saying it was the number Blizzard made to begin with, so I'll just accept that part of the answer and move on. :P) Can you tell me why two groups running these instances in one guild won't work? I mean, I really want to know this stuff. If you have people who are onlne that are more than the 40 who are currently raiding, won't this give them something to do besides farming mats for the "guild" to use? RaidIDs have been thrown out, but no one knows how long these timers are going to be for. It could be 3 days. 5 days, or 7 days. The raidID answer will be valid when more on that comes out from blizzard. I'm just trying to understand that if a guild has more than 40 people who raid, why does this new raid cap suddenly make people feel that all these "freindships are for naught"? Won't you still be in the same guild? Won't you still be conversing and raiding with these people? Just not the whole crew at once? If people are really as tight as they say are, then they won't leave, but try to work out and adapt the change. Not be upset because some can't raid with everyone at once anymore and try to figure out which 15 of those 40 are "the weakest links". :\ I used my brain cells on that one! I was speaking idiomatically. |
What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now? |
If they could do this, then I think it would solve most of the problems you're mentioning. Group A one-shotting bosses while Group B wipes at 100%? Shuffle around the raid and switch out some that have finished the boss with those that haven't. Granted, the only time I've ever set foot into freaking MC is when we had finished a PUG attunement run (that I couldn't do) and we were curious... but this sounds less like a problem of 25-man caps and more of a problem with the mechanics of raiding currently in place. FELIPE NO |
There are a lot of things Blizzard could do to possibly ease the assfucking this change has performed on raiding guilds. Right now all we can go on is what we've been told. Another post explains in more detail why A and B Teams do not work from firsthand experience.
What, you don't want my bikini-clad body? |
But the thing is, no one knows what these lock out timers will even be. Don't you think DnT is jumping the gun on this, just a little bit? They're turning a situation that they do not know the full details of, into the hugest worst-case scenerio to happen in any game ever. :\
I dunno, but it just seems that 2+ groups of 25 to take down the end instance would be easier to manage. Sorry, d00d. I guess I'll never really understand why everyone thinks what they say is law and if they don't want to do it, then why should anyone want to do it. It's just a huge re-hash of EQ/Furor. It's going to happen (more than likely) in every MMORPG to come out at all. Jam it back in, in the dark. |
The bottom line is, if you cannot put together two core raiding groups and do some interchanging from time to time your guild simply isn't a focused team. This isn't some top 40 elitist bullshit anymore now, this is getting together 25 man teams of your best and letting them destroy everything.
The two (and even three) teams work. Anything that claims otherwise is only there because they either feel threatened to lose DKP/gear, threatened that someone else is going to shine above them, or threatened because they actually HAVE TO HAVE SKILL now. I'll see your WTF and raise you two LOLs. Most amazing jew boots |
Eh, I've put up with WoW for some time now, and I think it's time to call it quits. It was fun while it lasted, but I need to move on. Too many changes and things to keep up with while balancing school and work is tough.
<3 Wow, I knew you well. This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it. |
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Finally, after months of pissing me off, Majorhomo dropped a CHT for me. It was probably the happiest I've been with raiding EVER (outside of when I got my Perdition's Blade).
http://ctprofiles.net/3023210 That is one hot rogue. I was speaking idiomatically. |
Guild I've been going to MC with for a while has finally put the stops on a few warriors going in there. It sucks because now I've been asked to bring my Shaman instead of my warrior. Granted I'll get geared faster, but I'm cautious about bringing my Shaman in these runs. I know I'll end up screwing up. heh.
What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now? |
I was in Prophets of the Alliance, which disbanded, then Reborn, until it was overcome with retards who wanted to raid 6/7 nights a week. I've been told it was disbanded since, and the hardcore raiders moved to another server. Besides, Jubei'Thos is where its at now for aussies anyway. Most amazing jew boots |
What, you don't want my bikini-clad body? |
Name sounds familiar. Reborn is still around... so to speak. Actually, I think Reborn left to another server. I know Ramonster just left, but most of the people have left due to server lag. Most of Imminent left too. I remember Prophets of the Alliance, though. Especially when you guys would raid TB. :P My gnome got in Pants Pirates (another Aussie guild) but due to real life stuff happening, I don't know how long I'll stay there. All my horde are in my guild, Scumdogs of Azeroth. (Best tabard on Thunderhorn. PERIOD!) I may try to get into Sanctify since they're like the only guild who does modified rolling instead of DKP. (PP went DKP recently, which makes me sad as when I joined they didn't care about loot and just played to have fun. ) Most amazing jew boots |
Those TB raids were awesome fun, when there was an entire herd of guards chasing us around the place. Reborns rolling system was totally retarded, since it required you to attend every raid to ever ever stand a chance of getting anything, which in turn was 6 days a week raiding. A group of us split off to Jubei'Thos and its fun as hell. I just got my Undead Priest to 60, he'll be strictly for PvE, and then I'm stuck between a hunter or warlock for PvP. You should come join us on Jubei'Thos, its a lot of fun, way better than TH was, and you could always just transfer your character. There's nowhere I can't reach. |
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