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[Album] FINAL FANTASY XII Original Soundtrack (SVWC-7351~54)
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PiccoloNamek
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Old Jun 1, 2006, 04:26 PM Local time: Jun 1, 2006, 02:26 PM #26 of 124
So, my bittorrent download is complete. I've been listening (I'm only a few songs in) but the first track that I've heard that really kicks ass (other than the East Dalmasca track, which I've already heard, and which kicks the most ass of all of them so far) is "Naivety". what a nice, bouncy, and well orchestrated track! So many layers, but they all work well together. My favorite part is the part between 0:50 and 1"15. The bass sounds very bouncy indeed on my Grados.

Edit: "The Skycity of Bhujerba" is very nice. Many layers and very soft and floaty. Giza plains is great as well.

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Last edited by PiccoloNamek; Jun 1, 2006 at 06:28 PM.
Veq
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Old Jun 1, 2006, 06:26 PM #27 of 124
I agree PiccoloNamek about "The Skycity of Bhujerba".. one of the few tracks I really like on the album.

Another track i really enjoy is "The Phon Coast", very nice uplifting song.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Last edited by Veq; Jun 1, 2006 at 06:30 PM.
garthvadr3
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Old Jun 1, 2006, 08:40 PM #28 of 124
I think the opening movie track is very well done, the fact that it is done with a real orchestra doesn't hurt it either

As I listen to this OST more I find some use of real instruments or very good samples mixed in with the so-so samples, I just wish they were all that high quality.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Last edited by garthvadr3; Jun 1, 2006 at 08:43 PM. Reason: Automerged additional post.
Josh_1
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Old Jun 1, 2006, 09:50 PM #29 of 124
I haven't downloaded the entire soundtrack yet, but from what I hear I love. This does have some awesome orchestration and some nice themes. This definately fits the profile of an epic fantasy film score. However, I don't think it impresses me as much as anything from Hamauzu from Dirge of Cerberus (which is one of my favorite FF scores). I find that although Sakimoto does stick to the orchestral scores, he also has a potential that only those who listen to his experimental works can enjoy (i.e. Gradius V, Radiant Silvergun, Breath of Fire V). He is quite versatile, but always provides a perfect mood to a game. So I do love this soundtrack quite a bit so far. I will be more precise on my comments once I finish listening to the score in its entirety.

But as for FFXIII, Hamauzu will deliver a soundtrack worthy of FF fame. I have faith in him and I really hope he becomes more involved in the FF series (perhaps as a successor to Uematsu ).

I was speaking idiomatically.
garthvadr3
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Old Jun 1, 2006, 10:31 PM #30 of 124
You know, I really do like Sakimoto's composition however, I think the reason it sometimes does not sound that interesting is because it is being held back by synth instruments. His style of writing does not shine unless performed with a real symphony orchestra. Just listen to the track "abyss" and imagine it with real instruments, and then just think about how much the midi instruments, or synth or whatever they are using is holding the composition back. It is too intricate and requires individual performers nuance to make his writing sound "right". This is where I think Hamauzu shines in FFX, he can manipulate synth and midi and write for it so that it sounds natural.

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Cobalt Katze
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Old Jun 1, 2006, 10:44 PM Local time: Jun 1, 2006, 07:44 PM #31 of 124
Originally Posted by garthvadr3
You know, I really do like Sakimoto's composition however, I think the reason it sometimes does not sound that interesting is because it is being held back by synth instruments. His style of writing does not shine unless performed with a real symphony orchestra. Just listen to the track "abyss" and imagine it with real instruments, and then just think about how much the midi instruments, or synth or whatever they are using is holding the composition back. It is too intricate and requires individual performers nuance to make his writing sound "right". This is where I think Hamauzu shines in FFX, he can manipulate synth and midi and write for it so that it sounds natural.
Abyss wasn't written by Sakimoto, it's by Hayato Masuto. In general, Masuto's tracks used much less quality samples than Sakimoto's tracks it seems.

Personally, I found the sample quality to be exceptional with just a few duds. The velocity change between the "soft" and "brassy" on the French Horn section always is very rough and often tinny. Additionally, there's one or two notes in the Harp sample set that are more plucked and buzzy than they should be.

The woodwinds and strings, however, are almost always top notch, especially the solo Clarinet and Flute samples. The percussion when used is also very nice. The choir samples, whenever they show up, either as the "classical choir" or the "ethnic choir" sound very cool.

I don't know why this is a battle between Sakimoto and Hamauzu. They're both very talented composers with very different styles. People prefer one or the other. I love both, but have a stronger affinity towards Sakimoto since his direction is usually where my own writing leads me.

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Last edited by Cobalt Katze; Jun 1, 2006 at 10:46 PM.
Mucknuggle
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Old Jun 1, 2006, 11:26 PM #32 of 124
I've listened to maybe 1/4 of it so far, but this stuff is fantastic. I can't wait to hear this in the context of the game.

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jb1234
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Old Jun 1, 2006, 11:27 PM #33 of 124
Hamauzu's biggest advantage is that he often mixes real instruments into the synth. It helps more than you'd think. When my ears hear a real instrument, they're often tricked into thinking that the rest of the piece uses them as well.

It doesn't hurt that he's one of VG's finest composers.

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Old Jun 2, 2006, 12:43 AM #34 of 124
Let me start off by saying this: Ive ALWAYS (yes always) hated almost all of Sakimoto's work. Only song that ever got me at all was Truth from vagrant story. I was horrified to find out that he was composing the next numbered FF game. Well after hearing this i can now say.... that im a fool. This is probably my favorite FF soundtrack to date. So far i have not found 1 song that I havent liked. Im going to have to listen to some of his older works to see if maybe ive just been deaf all this time.
(Ill post more tomorrow, just got off of a 12 hour work shift and i need sleep)

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Old Jun 2, 2006, 02:40 AM Local time: Jun 2, 2006, 08:40 AM #35 of 124
I got it yesterday and I have to say that I already know it all =) I'm playing in FF XII for 90h+ so every song is familiar with me. As for the OST it self I have to say it's genius and mixing it with Vagrant Story type songs was awesome and for only this thing I can give 10/10 for it.

Nice that some of the songs are a little changed then in game but still overall view is very good. I love it!!

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.
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Old Jun 2, 2006, 03:25 AM Local time: Jun 2, 2006, 09:25 AM #36 of 124
Even though there is a lot of synth instruments in this soundtrack, they could sound a lot worse (like Michiru Naruke's trumpet midi's from Wild Arms 3, Alter Code F - they needed some live sound!!)

I have found a few tracks that I'm unsure about, but the thing is I will grow to love these as I listen to them more.

I never really noticed Vagrant Story's Music when I first played it (first time hearing Sakimoto) except when I heard the Efreet battle theme - then I went and bought the sountrack and loved it. But I got it about the time I played Breath of Fire V - without realising it was Sakimoto's work until I heard the lift and first battle theme - another soundtrack I had to buy!!

I'm still waiting for my copy of FFXII OST

I like how there is slightly more piano stuff in the OST - and heck, Sakimoto has been known to compose some poor final battle themes in my eyes (Vagrant Story's Heteromorphic Person...so-so, but not great) but I LOVE Battle for freedom (even if it does use the ff theme in it - it makes it sound heroic after all the urgent atmosphere you get from the middle of the track - as the beginning leads up to this).

I'm sure Hamauzu's composition for XIII will be epic - in some eyes, better than XII, but I know ppl who hate Hamauzu (crazy ppl - I LOVE HAMAUZU!) and ppl who hate Sakimoto (because he composes for ambiense and atmosphere in a game) - which will work well in the game because after all this music wasn't composed to stand on it's own.

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PiccoloNamek
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Old Jun 2, 2006, 03:31 AM Local time: Jun 2, 2006, 01:31 AM #37 of 124
Quote:
Vagrant Story's Heteromorphic Person...so-so, but not great
Don't you mean "An Odd-Looking Creature"?

And it kicks ass.

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jb1234
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Old Jun 2, 2006, 04:07 AM #38 of 124
I've always considered VS's first final battle theme to be stronger than the second. In the game, I felt they should have been reversed.

"Battle for Freedom" is great. Works wonderfully in the game too. I'm surprised they looped the battle part of the track. It's quite lengthy.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?
garthvadr3
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Old Jun 2, 2006, 06:13 AM #39 of 124
Quote:
Abyss wasn't written by Sakimoto, it's by Hayato Masuto
Yea I guess you're right. I didn't check the ID3 tags Either way this soundtrack would have benefitted from more real players. There's just no substitute for it. You can take pretty much every track and find places where it sounds dull because the composition doesn't shine on synth instruments. Imagine listening to a Mahler symphony on midi. You know what I mean? This is why I really was captivated by the FF12 opening cut scene music (which was played by a live orchestra), but when the next track came up I felt compelled to press the skip button.

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Last edited by garthvadr3; Jun 2, 2006 at 06:20 AM.
Cobalt Katze
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Old Jun 2, 2006, 10:52 AM Local time: Jun 2, 2006, 07:52 AM #40 of 124
Originally Posted by garthvadr3
Yea I guess you're right. I didn't check the ID3 tags Either way this soundtrack would have benefitted from more real players. There's just no substitute for it. You can take pretty much every track and find places where it sounds dull because the composition doesn't shine on synth instruments. Imagine listening to a Mahler symphony on midi. You know what I mean? This is why I really was captivated by the FF12 opening cut scene music (which was played by a live orchestra), but when the next track came up I felt compelled to press the skip button.
Fair enough. I will agree that there's no substitution for live instruments and orchestra when you're dealing with such. However, given the massive ammounts of music that's here (just under 5 hours), it would have been impossible to do the whole soundtrack live (without having a recording budget the size of, something really big.)

There's also certain things that you're able to do when dealing with digital audio as opposed to live recordings. This doesn't apply to FFXII, but for example in Vagrant Story.. you're able to have a dynamic cutscene background that can transition seamlessly into looping battle music and then back into more cutscene, with hit points as soon as you advance the dialogue, as done in the opening sequence.

Additionally, and this is from personal experience, but when you're working with an orchestral palette that you know won't be performed live, you have the freedom to try things that wouldn't necissarily be playable in reality.

So could there have been more live tracks? Yes, definately. They could have, in my opinion, cut Symphonic Poem Hope from the budget entirely and relegated those funds to recording more of Sakimoto's pieces. However, I don't think the quality is so bad that they render their composition and effectiveness null.

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Veq
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Old Jun 2, 2006, 11:59 AM #41 of 124
I think I have to take back what I said about this soundtrack. I gone from, not liking, to think its pretty okay, to enjoy more tracks, to love it. The more I listen to it, the better it gets, and I find little things in most tracks thats just great.
I still think it could been a little bit more variation is some songs, but overall, it's very good!
The soundtrack also inspired me to experiment a lot more with orchestration of this kind myself in my music.

Feeling a bit ashamed for my first negative comments about it

Regarding synth quality, most of it sound pretty good, but there are some instruments that really annoy me. Take the song "The Skycity of Bhureja" for example, it start out with really nice quality, but at 00:24 this very ugly string section comes in, it sound way too synthisized.

Off topic: Hey Cobalt Katze, checked through your site and listened to some of your stuff, you're very talented! Very nice work there.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Last edited by Veq; Jun 2, 2006 at 12:12 PM.
garthvadr3
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Old Jun 2, 2006, 01:40 PM #42 of 124
Yes and it's often places where mulitple articulations sucjh as staccato combined with lagato on one instrument, or marcato and so forth that the ugliness comes out the most as this is the shortcommings of most samples, that they cannot correctly combine or even emulate these articulations acurately. In this case the strings are unable to do fast articulate lines well, they wash way too much.
I do have to admit, much of the OST is growing on me more, but I still stand on most of my initial judgement.

This is in regards to Veq's comment as I got beaten by spatula (no double meaning intended)

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Old Jun 2, 2006, 02:01 PM Local time: Jun 2, 2006, 12:01 PM #43 of 124
For those of you who've got the first press, what bonus items do you get? I know about the 28 page book and the special cover. What else? I just ordered and I've got a feeling won't get the first press. ;__;

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

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Old Jun 2, 2006, 02:07 PM Local time: Jun 2, 2006, 11:07 AM #44 of 124
Originally Posted by Spatula
For those of you who've got the first press, what bonus items do you get? I know about the 28 page book and the special cover. What else? I just ordered and I've got a feeling won't get the first press. ;__;
A shiny box, really. The 28 page booklet isn't anything special, just the concept renders we've seen many times over along with photos, a statement by Sakimoto, and a conversation between him and the other composers on the album.

And thanks, Veq Appreciated.

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Old Jun 2, 2006, 05:47 PM #45 of 124
Originally Posted by Spatula
For those of you who've got the first press, what bonus items do you get? I know about the 28 page book and the special cover. What else? I just ordered and I've got a feeling won't get the first press. ;__;
The 28-page booklet as you mentioned, featuring artwork, comments from Sakimoto and an interview with Sakimoto x Kawamori x Okamiya.

The case is part of the limited edition also, as are the picture-labeled discs.

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Old Jun 2, 2006, 05:56 PM Local time: Jun 3, 2006, 12:56 AM #46 of 124
Originally Posted by Godai
The 28-page booklet as you mentioned, featuring artwork, comments from Sakimoto and an interview with Sakimoto x Kawamori x Okamiya.

The case is part of the limited edition also, as are the picture-labeled discs.
Btw, will we get a translation of this interview (or even some parts of it)? I think we have an explanation of why a such big difference between the in-game sound and the OST in this interview.

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jb1234
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Old Jun 2, 2006, 11:53 PM #47 of 124
Quote:
However, given the massive ammounts of music that's here (just under 5 hours), it would have been impossible to do the whole soundtrack live (without having a recording budget the size of, something really big.)
I'm not sure I agree. If you count looping, there isn't much more than two and a half hours of music here. There are many film scores that are that length and considering the budget that the average FF game has, I don't think there was a good excuse (aside from inexperience).

FELIPE NO
bishop743
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Old Jun 3, 2006, 01:02 AM #48 of 124
I finally got my copy of the soundtrack today and have listened to the entire album all the way through. I must say that I am very impressed with the finished product. I feel that this is one of Sakimoto's strongest outings yet and that is surpasses both Final Fantasy Tactics and Vagrant Story. "Esper Battle" and "Giza Plains" are two of my favorite tracks on the soundtrack. "Godly" would be a nice, fitting descrption for those two compositions. Also, his 2 arrangements of the chocobo theme (1 is an unused tracks) are really nice.

I don't have many gripes. I'm not feelin' "Boss Battle" all that much. For a boss battle theme, it's a pretty weak sauce to me. Of course, that could change once I have an opportunity to play the game. Also "Clash on the Big Bridge ~FFXII Version~", a track was a greatly anticipating, didn't rock me as much as I'd hoped. It's a good piece, but doesn't reach the greatness of the original, IMO.

Hayato Matsuo and Masaharu Iwata didn't have many contributions to the score but they made good on what they did have. Matsuo's "Seeking Power" and Iwata's "The Feywood" both have a decidedly epic feel that left an impression on me immediately. The vocal track, "Kiss Me Good-Bye", is the strongest of all the vocal themes in a FF game yet. I just love Angela Aki's voice.

Overall, this is a great soundtrack. If people give it a chance, and don't get stuck in their "Uematsu or bust" ways, they'll realize that too.

EDIT:

After listening to "Boss Battle" a couple times, and hearing the part where it really picks up, I'm beginning to like it more now. So, that's one less gripe I have I guess, heh.

How ya doing, buddy?

Last edited by bishop743; Jun 3, 2006 at 03:22 AM.
PiccoloNamek
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Old Jun 3, 2006, 06:34 AM Local time: Jun 3, 2006, 04:34 AM #49 of 124
As of now, I'm a little more than half-way through the soundtrack, and one track that has struck me as being particularly awesome is "The Phon Coast". What a nice, uplifting track! It starts off strong and has a wonderful buildup and an interesting and heavily layered instrumentation. The entire composition of the song immediately gives it away as a Sakimoto track. I can imagine flying over a pristine rocky coast with ocean spray and strinking blue sky while listening to this track. Nothing this complex was ever heard in any Uematsu piece. (Although I still love Uematsu.)

So far, this is shaping up to be one of the nicest soundtracks I've heard in a while.

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Last edited by PiccoloNamek; Jun 3, 2006 at 07:01 AM.
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Old Jun 3, 2006, 03:35 PM Local time: Jun 3, 2006, 01:35 PM #50 of 124
I just finished downloading this about 5 minutes ago, and I'm already in love with this OST. First off, I wasn't a big fan of FFX or FFXI because that's when Square started to change composers, meaning they changed music that had a definite melody to just intrumental arrangements. FFXII is definitely a step forward in that regard.

Notable songs are the remakes of "Final Fantasy" from FFIV and "Clash on Big Bridge" from FFV. Nostalgia will always win me over. It really helps that they really did good to rearrange these. Can't really say much else about the OST since I haven't had much of a chance to give it a good listen. But from what I've heard so far, "I'm a lookin' and I'm a likin'!"

There's nowhere I can't reach.
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