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[Movie] L O S T [possible spoilers]
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Cellius
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Old May 24, 2010, 11:50 PM Local time: May 24, 2010, 09:50 PM #576 of 595
The only thing that makes sense is that none of it mattered because they were dead anyways.

That's how you explain all the magical bullshit. There is no explanation because none of it happened.
I am pretty certain the finale took great pains to inform its audience that this is precisely not the case.

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Old May 25, 2010, 01:26 AM #577 of 595
Maybe ABC will pull a Scrubs.

Ya know, make a finale. Have a party during the credits of the finale and showing everyone all happy and hugging--and then next season they'll magically have LOST: Medschool.

Cause, ya know, Scrubs was great til ~season 3. Same for Lost.

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Old May 25, 2010, 04:45 AM Local time: May 25, 2010, 09:45 AM #578 of 595
man FUCK lord of the rings they never explained WHY the ring had to be destroyed in mount doom of all places, how did that work????

also how did gandalf and saruman's rivalry start?? tolkien was such a hack

Spoiler:
I wasn't thrilled with the ending, but I'm satisfied. At least it didn't quite get to BSG levels of cop-out.


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Old May 25, 2010, 04:53 AM Local time: May 25, 2010, 08:53 PM 1 #579 of 595
I'm actually glad I enjoyed it. You bitter, angry people must be really unhappy and unfulfilled in life.

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Old May 25, 2010, 05:46 AM Local time: May 25, 2010, 02:46 AM #580 of 595
About five years ago:

"OK, OK, so everybody is assuming the island is purgatory. But check this. What if we flipped that on its head and made the island real but ordinary life purgatory instead?"

"OMG, that is it. What would be the most convoluted way ever of making this happen?"

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Old May 25, 2010, 05:48 AM Local time: May 25, 2010, 02:48 AM 3 #581 of 595
I'm actually glad I enjoyed it. You bitter, angry people must be really unhappy and unfulfilled in life.
Or, you know, just pissed off at th ending of a TV show. I'm not sure where you people aren't understanding that raging and/or people happy with a TV show is a completely legitimate and intended reaction. As soon as I saw the direction the show was heading, I could have stopped watching and detached myself completely, but I didn't. Why? Because half the fun is reading people's thoughts and comments, and figuring out what they did or didn't like, and comparing it to yours.

I was speaking idiomatically.
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Old May 25, 2010, 08:13 AM #582 of 595
Yeah, I think I've enjoyed reading people's ideas on here, SA, and another message board more than I liked the ending of the show in general.

After seeing it, I was very confused and just trying to piece everything together. I wasn't really sure if I liked it or not. After letting it sink in, and hearing other people's issues/likes with it, I'm fairly content with what they did.

They could have just dumbed it all down for us and given us all the answers and washed their hands of it completely, but I like the fact there's still some stuff left to discuss--whether it be intentional, or just sloppy writing.

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Old May 25, 2010, 09:06 AM 1 #583 of 595
They could have just dumbed it all down for us and given us all the answers and washed their hands of it completely, but I like the fact there's still some stuff left to discuss--whether it be intentional, or just sloppy writing.
See, what I like about the ending is that it itself is open to interpretation. I always dig that, and I especially dig what Lost tried to do. My favorite theories that have been passed around are:

1. Yes, it's pretty much exactly as Christian Shepherd said.
2. No, everyone died on the plane crash, hence that last shot with the credits.
3. Ben said to Hurley that he could do things differently. Maybe he did, and the light that Christian reveals when he opens the big church doors is the island light again. Or something.

What I don't like, and what irked me so much about the ending was that it did almost completely ignore the mythology in favor of a big blanket answer that essentially said "who cares WHAT happened, what matters is that it DID happen." I don't like that. The mythology and the mysteries ARE important, at least, they certainly went to great lengths to make them seem important right up until the last episode. I wholeheartedly disagree that they are simply MacGuffins, as LeHah said. I know that the characters were the center of the show, but you don't put compelling characters in compelling situations just to say fuck all the situations later. They were a less important factor as the series went on, but they were still a large part of what people liked about the show (especially when it first started out), and I was hoping that since it was a SERIES finale and not just a finale to season 6, they would have addressed some of these things.

The show itself evolved the way Jack did. What was first a show of science slowly evolved into a show of faith. I just wish the writing would have taken a neutral standpoint and instead let the audience figure that out for themselves instead of dildoing us with it like in the church scene with all the religious symbols and the light and the crappy dialogue. Ugh, such pandering.

It's fascinating seeing how the hive mind of the show has changed over the years. I would be willing to bet that 80% of the people who are saying "the show was never about the mysteries" were singing a different tune back in 2004 when the mysteries were literally all the show had until they started getting in depth with the characters. Ah well, c'est la vie. At least I still have Breaking Bad.

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Old May 25, 2010, 09:13 AM Local time: May 25, 2010, 04:13 PM #584 of 595
Nothing really happened as a direct result of the mythology or even many of the "mysteries", so it's just basically to serve as background. Something I will remember this series by is the air of mystery around everything, and it was left pleasantly untouched. That would have been completely ruined by endless exposition about the past or the egyptians or the f-anything.

And apparently 20 minutes of the final episode was left on the floor of the cutting room, including the small tidbits instead of Jack's teleportation out of the cave, or how the hell Ben got out from under the tree. This was just to fit the episode into the time slot it was given.

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Old May 25, 2010, 09:15 AM #585 of 595
At least I still have Breaking Bad.
Exactly. <3

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Old May 25, 2010, 10:04 AM #586 of 595
I agree on Breaking Bad. Its probably the only thing worth watching today.

Also, this bit of news passed my desk - Lost: The final episode drew a disappointing 13.5 million viewers according to FORBES magazine. DESPERATE HOUSEWIVES, which normally airs in the same time slot, averages 14 million viewers. The first episode of LOST drew 18.6 million viewers. Other series final episode ratings are: MASH--105.9 million, SEINFELD--76 million, FRIENDS--52 million, THE SOPRANOS--12 million. The good news is the final episode's audience was the biggest in two years.

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Old May 25, 2010, 11:55 AM #587 of 595
In other words: People were fucking sick and tired of LOST's horseshit.

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Old May 25, 2010, 12:25 PM Local time: May 25, 2010, 06:25 PM #588 of 595
MASH--105.9 million
lol wtff..

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Old May 25, 2010, 08:28 PM 1 #589 of 595
In other words: People were fucking sick and tired of LOST's horseshit.
In other words, there's a lot more to watch and do than just TV nowadays.

I was speaking idiomatically.
Old May 25, 2010, 11:10 PM 5 #590 of 595
I dunno I think I'm alright with the ending. It makes me think about some things we've recently learned and I've come up with my own little thoughts on how everything went down. As convoluted as my theory might seem to you it makes the ending much easier to swallow.

For instance remember how the man in black was tossed unconscious into the golden tunnel only to come out as a smoke monster? After he did the golden light disappeared. How strange that the golden light was back when Locke, Jack, and Desmond returned later even if the golden light wasn't nearly as strong as it was before in this final episode. Let's think about that. MiB leaves the tunnel as smoke monster and golden light disappears. Hundreds of years later the golden light has built itself up again. What does that mean?

Their mother referred to going down into the tunnel as a fate worse than death. Was that just something to ward them off or something almost literal or perhaps both? I'd go with both. Going down into the golden tunnel turned the MiB into a smoke monster. That's pretty cool. But why? What turned him into a smoke monster? Well let's go a while back when Jacob pulled out his whine glass. He used the cork as a metaphor to describe the island itself being a cork to keep out ultimate evil that would destroy absolutely. I'd say that's pretty much it. However I'd go out and say that the island is itself the wine glass with absolute evil contained within and the golden tunnel with its room with the rock stopper and its golden light water works gizmo to be the cork keeping evil contained within the wine glass er.. island.

So! Why was the MiB turned into a smoke monster? Why did their mother tell them never to enter the golden tunnel? I believe she was correct in saying going in there would cause a fate worse than death but it wouldn't just apply to just one person. By going into the golden tunnel a person would be beset upon by a small portion of evil that was being contained. This person would be cursed into becoming the smoke monster and set forth actions that could eventually get someone to uncork and release all of the evil held within the island.

This may also explain the golden light going out. The small amount of evil that escapes must make the rock stopper water gizmo use a lot of energy in a last second effort to squelch the evil from escaping and/or that evil uses a lot of energy to give smoke monster powers to the person who came into the golden tunnel. Over time energy builds up again as does the golden light.

However I think it must be clarified that the MiB was never the ultimate evil. He was just a guy who really wanted to leave the island; an island that if he were ever able to set the requirements to escape (Jacob dead, candidates out of his way or dead, replacement Jacob not obstructing him, getting someone capable of removing the stone cork from the golden tunnel) would be destroyed releasing all the evil within that would then destroy everything absolutely including the MiB. The MiB was correct in that uncorking the island would allow him to escape. He just never quite knew that the evil within the island wanted this all along so it too could escape causing everything to end - a fate worse than death indeed.

But Acer! What of those skeletons down in the golden stopper room? I'm not completely sure but I believe they could be failed attempts at attempting to uncork the island. I don't believe the MiB was the first smoke monster. I believe he's the first and last to never find the golden chamber or perhaps the first to understand that he himself couldn't uncork the island and that he'd need a Desmond or perhaps the first that didn't after gaining this knowledge kill themselves. He had to get Desmond to uncork the island for a reason. Those skeletons are those reasons. Smoke monsters who try to uncork the island get zapped the fuck dead and then the leaked evil contained within the golden chamber has to wait for the next sucker to fall down inside to try this whole thing all over again. That's why Jacob and the MiB's mother knew not to go into the golden tunnel. It had happened to her people in the past and this was passed down from generation to generation.

So the MiB finally gets his Desmond to uncork the island. He loses his powers as they leave him to go about destroying their container to escape. The MiB is mortal again and soon enough meets his end. Jack then is able to enter the golden tunnel with the evil busy eating away at the island, and with the evil containment zap you the fuck dead sucka machine off he is able to recork it and start that thing up again. He laughs, somehow gets zap warped the hell out of there and then dies in a bamboo forest next to man's best friend. The evil is sealed once again. Close call guys. Good job.

Now Hurly is in charge and Ben is his right hand man. You never know if they leave the island, but with Ben's help Hurly might have used his powers to control the island to allow them to escape. Perhaps he does not. You never really know. However one day we can assume Hurly passes down this responsibility to someone else to protect the island from being uncorked and releasing evil because as we know in the flash sideways which was not really ever a flash sideways that he dies someday. Yes, the flash sideways was a way to bring everyone together to remember and then to move on. I'm okay with this. The island was real. Everything that happened did happen. Someone is still out there protecting the island. Life goes on. Life went on. Life will go on. What is after life will be. It's been a great journey everyone.

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Old May 26, 2010, 08:39 PM #591 of 595
Cut and pasting this here from an IRC discussion I was having with friends about the show. Don't entirely agree with some points but the argument is sound.

Spoiler:
I hated it for a number of reasons.

"The show is *really* about characters and not a crazy mystery" is very hollow, since the crazy mystery is why anyone cared about the show in the first place. It's about characters in the same way any drama is about characters. There's nothing special about that. Also, most of the character stories were resolved in season 3 and replaced with more sci fi gimmicks which didn't matter. When the flashbacks ended the characters stories had been told and mostly resolved.

The lone reveal was also the specific thing that the creators of the show insisted it wasn't about (the characters being in purgatory). And even if it was about characters, the manner in which their destinies were fixed was idiotic. Each person has an opposite gendered pair to go to heaven with! The show even went years insisting it wasn't about characters by being completely willing to kill them off suddenly and permanently. And there wasn't some big reveal where they'd saved those character's fates for space heaven at the end, they just never showed up again. (Michael, Ana Lucia, Mr. Eko and so on; everybody gets together at the end! is a hollow hollow when it's actually everybody who was already together three episodes gets together.)

Also all the actual redemption for any character that was so important happened off screen. But they said years ago that they had the specific last scenes of the show in mind and I can't imagine how they go with season 1. Except that possibly the idea was that the island was purgatory and the characters were lost and they had to find themselves but people figured it out too soon and they got all jumpy about it.

And I can't help but compare LOST to Fringe which is by JJ Abrams and the other Star Trek showrunner and it just managed to end their season by making the characters emotionally resonant and by tying together all their mystery elements into a very well explained reveals. So I don't really see why it had to be one or the other, especially when the show was specifically known for one. And it didn't even have the backbone to stand up and say that that stuff didn't matter, it just didn't mention any of it.

You could write a but we want to know what the numbers are and what the island is and what happeed to Walt and so on scene where one of your various omniscious characters points out that it doesn't matter really really easily.

(And "we're all friends! that's what matters!" isn't even true. These characters spent the entire show fighting each other ad dividing into groups that killed each other.)

And even things like the ambigious last scene shots of the beach with just the wreckage don't wory because we've been specifically told by the showrunners that the characters did survive the crash. But the criticism of Lost the whole time was that they weren't going to be able to pay off the mysteries and that turned out to be completely entirely true.

If the characters and not the supernatural stuff mattered then you could tell the same story without them. As a character story it doesn't match the stuff earlier either. Charlie went from drug addict to father to sacrificing himelf for the greater good.. what theology tells us okay, cool, but that's not *really* redemption, what he has to do is wait around in a fantasy world until his girlfriend dies too. (The sent Michael straight to glowing light when he died, even.)

And remember what a huge deal it was that they were specifically promised three seasons to get to this point three years ago? You could stick this episode anywhere after season 3 and it would have the same meaning. It didnt even explain the little changes in the alternate timeline that were specific to this setup. It was all HAHA FOOLED YOU. Why was the purgatory version different in all those slight ways? (Jack had a son, the asian guy was Sawer's partner cop, the accident was Locke's fault instead of his dad, etc.)

I will admit that it's extremely rare for a show to have a satisfying finale... some of the best shows have terrible ones... but this was a case where the finale was supposed to be the point. Also, if it's an acceptable ending then it's one that can be applied to any story. Popular religion is correct, these characters will spend a period of time in purgatory and will then go to heaven. It's not an oblique Christian allegory, it's just what Christians directly believe will happen.


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Old May 26, 2010, 10:49 PM Local time: May 26, 2010, 08:49 PM #592 of 595
ABC says final images of wreckage not part of the final story:

'Lost': ABC says final images of wreckage 'not part of the final story' | EW.com

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Old May 27, 2010, 09:10 AM Local time: May 28, 2010, 12:10 AM #593 of 595
Spoiler:
How disappointing. That finale was a letdown. The action and drama was no where near LOST at it's best (eg. "The Incident"); and it didn't even move me that much (the death of Sun & Jin got me, not the finale). It failed to deliver emotionally and dramatically, and the way the show ended is still not sitting right with me. I could feel my heart sinking when Christian Shepherd (hohoho) appeared ("those bastards"). The happy-clappy ending was fitting in a way for a show that introduced the happy-clappy magical waterfall, in the end a key component in ending the show, only two episodes prior. And what's with Jack's death synchronising with the purgatorial reunion? And why did they "make" Eloise's temple as a place to gather (perhaps because it's the only connection to the island on the mainland, remember the pendulum basement)?

The death of the Man in Black was ultra anticlimactic, and so early too (and no smoke monster at all, WHAT). I was thinking, "so, what now?". What followed were character connections in the purgatory-timeline that were nice if a bit cumbersome. One confusing moment was Boone evidently being in on the whole thing. Why Boone? Add to the swoon factor of the prepubescent girl demographic?? Ben's role in purgatory was one which I found particularly good though, with the implied redemption---if they hadn't done his character justice, arggh. I like to think he and Hurley changed the game so to speak so that people could leave the island of their own free will (which seems a bit too neat but ehh). It was also nice seeing Juliet, though I'm surprised she didn't say, after having her flashbacks, "holy crap I died like three times?".

But therein lies the problem with this finale---it answered nothing, or at least nothing substantial and satisfying. As many in this thread have mentioned, they essentially discarded the mythology to tie everything up nicely for the characters. I would have been cool with seeing a tragic ending if it meant sacrificing some of this niceness (and I say that rolling my eyes) for some more history, mystery-solving and mythology. But really we all should have known this finale would happen after seeing that episode two weeks ago, alarm bells should have started ringing. However I do commend Acer for his post, it makes quite a lot of sense---I was thinking something along the lines of, you know, removing the plug meaning destroying the island, with the Man in Black essentially the spirit of the island (he wasn't aware of this, he thought he was its prisoner). While this is easy to say in hindsight, it would have been better if there had not been any finale or "Across the Sea"; the absence of those two episodes would have given the fans much more happiness and satisfaction in both understanding and enjoying the show.

I'm not ashamed of watching the show because it did interest me throughout and I did find it entertaining...but this finale will mean I will need a lot of time before I even consider finding the want or motivation to watch through the series again. Right now that seems like a ludicrous thing to do, and I may think this for the indefinite future, which is a shame.

Jack wakes up, the in-flight season finale over. He looks around, everybody looks pissed off. "Guys," Charlie says, awkwardly filling the void of silence, "what was that?"

Really, something like this would have been a better way to end the series. Like I said, the finale was disappointing.

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Old May 27, 2010, 02:29 PM 1 #594 of 595
Haha that would have been amusing.

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Old Jul 14, 2010, 02:26 PM Local time: Jul 14, 2010, 08:26 PM #595 of 595
http://www.amazon.com/Lost-Complete-.../dp/B0036EH3WK

Anyone getting this? It's expensive. But it's everything. And it includes a Special Edition collectible 'Senet' Game as seen in Season Six

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.
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