[General Discussion] The Wonderful World of Annoying Levels, Stages & Dungeons

We've all gone through this on more than one occassion. We play a game that we love so much but there is always a level that is so diffcult or frustrating it feels so satisfying once you actually finished it.

A perfect example of this would probably be the speeder bike level in battletoads because even now I still can't beat this level on the nes and snes versions of the game.

Even though I haven't played a wide variety of games since I tend to be very picky about the games I do play, the games I have played have had their share of annoying levels. These are some of them:

Xenogears - Babel Tower: The enemies in this rpg dungeon are incredibly easy. The annoying thing about this dungeon is that it is incredibly tedious and incredibly long. When you get to the second part there is at least one blind jump that I'm aware of and if you miss it you have to start from the beginning of the second part of the dungeon. The first time playing this dungeon I missed it quite a few times. Even though it is my favourite playstation game that dungeon is one of the most annoying dungeons I've ever encountered.

Mega Man X5 - Squid Adler Stage: I have died so many times during the jet ski part of that stage trying to collect all the blue orbs to unlock the door at the end. I'd say I tried it at least 20 times before I actually got it. One of the most annoying stages I've ever played in Mega Man X series.

Castlevania - Any Clock Tower Stage: I haven't played very many castlevania games, but the ones I have played always have a clocktower stage and the majority of the time it always ends up being one of the most annoying stages in the game. I just recently fnished Super Castlevnia IV and I had a very hard time with the clock tower stage as well as the clock tower stage when I played Castlevania III for the nes. Even in portrait of ruin which in my eyes I didn't find very dificult; the clocktower was still one of most annoying parts of the castle. I guess out of the clocktower levels I've played they just love putting spiked floors, flying medusa heads, stupid jumps, revolving platforms in these stages as much as possible.

for a more retro childhood contribution to this thread it would have to be:

Super Mario Bros. 3 - World 8 - Koopa Air Force #1: I haven't played this game in a very long time, but anytime I've played it especially when I was 11-12 years old; I always reseved a P-Wing for this level. I had horrible timing in my jumps and as hard as I tried I could only pass this level if I had a p-wing. I use to get so frustrated with the stage. I never bothered to beat it by any other way except the p-wing. I'm sure I could pass it now without a p-wing but as a kid it remains one of the most annoying levels to me unless you had the proper power-up.

To the GFF community out of all the games you have played in the past and in the present what has been some of the most annoyng stages/levels/ & dungeons you have ever encountered.

How ya doing, buddy?

Good god I hated those airship stages in SMB 3. I don't even remember the first time I got past them before 6 years ago.

I could name any 3-D Sonic game but because all of them fail at level design that'd be moot

Symphony of the Night's inverted castle is flipping annoying, especially in regards to jumping. Doesn't make it bad, though, I dig the twisted/sorrowful atmosphere.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Sin Ansem

Symphony of the Night's inverted castle is flipping annoying, especially in regards to jumping.

Agreed. I appreciate the mood of the inverted castle but it was so lazy to just flip the preexisting castle. Not only do you find yourself having to jump a whole lot more, but the areas are more sparsely populated, and the music is less varied. Even Lost Painting can get a bit old when you've heard it the umpteenth time.

Talking Castlevania, there's a gauntlet of jutting stalactites and stalagmites near the end of stage eight of Super Castlevania IV that makes me entirely too nervous. I sure wish that you only lost half of your energy from touching spikes like in Castlevania III. I hate instant death spikes. The Megaman series is chock full of that sort of thing too. I hate the Crystalman Stage in Megaman V. There's a part where you have to jump across pits and there are crystals falling down. Even when I thought I had the pattern, I'd eventually get hit and *boom*, instant death in that explosive Megaman fashion.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

How high?!

You're supposed to blow a bubble in the bottom corner and bounce on it to get up top, but by the time you've blown a bubble that is the right height, one or more of the enemies above has gotten into the space just beneath, so you bang your head on them as you bounce up. A complete twat of a level.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Sin Ansem

Symphony of the Night's inverted castle is flipping annoying, especially in regards to jumping. Doesn't make it bad, though, I dig the twisted/sorrowful atmosphere.

But by the time you get there you've got Gravity Boots and you can turn into a bat so the jumps aren't exactly difficult.

I would say the most frustrating level of all time is Jet Set Willy's Banyan Tree:



In a game so tough it needed patching to actually be finishable, this is the hardest screen by far. You need to get the timing spot on and the positioning pixel perfect to get through, it's just not fun.

Also stupidly hard is the City Streets level of Ghost Recon 2 Summit Strike (I think it was Summit Strike, might have just been GR2). You have to recon two crashed helicopters and then survive a huge fight at the end. Stick it on the hardest difficulty though and the bad guys start randomly spawning, often right behind you. The only times I ever completed that were with an 8 man team on online co-op and even then I don't remember ever seeing more than a couple of people still alive at the end. Fucking satisfying when you were one of them though...

I was speaking idiomatically.

That part in Cave Story in the extra dungeon if you're going for the best ending where there's shit falling from the ceiling and shit flying at you and oh my god I just lost half of my life FUCKING AGAIN.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

This level in Earthworm Jim 2 is pretty dreadful. You have to take a bomb with you by bumping into it, where it often goes flying in stupid (STUPID ANGRY) directions. Enemies shoot at it all the time, and I frown. The level is far too long. It's no fun. I hate it. I.. I..

No, I'm not crying.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by Shin

I would say the most frustrating level of all time is Jet Set Willy's Banyan Tree:



In a game so tough it needed patching to actually be finishable, this is the hardest screen by far. You need to get the timing spot on and the positioning pixel perfect to get through, it's just not fun.

Do you know anyone who actually managed to complete even the patched version? I know about the patch and that it was theoretically possible with a fixed version, but still... that person would have to be superhuman.

Not sure if this counts or not, but I nominate the Sleeping Table boss in Persona 3. By the time you get there you've despatched a whole lot of bosses, and you're starting to get complacent. Sure the last couple of fights were tough, but you found a strategy that worked for you, and you kicked some Shadow arse.

Then you reach floor 135, somewhere in the middle of September. You're probably thinking that the end of the game is in sight by now, since you've already done about 3/4 of the year that the game lasts for.

You get annihilated by some of the strongest attacks that you've faced up to that point. The damn thing has no real weaknesses, and it can kill several of your characters in one shot if you're just a hint underlevelled. By the time you've done a few hours of grinding, you can take it down, but it's not something you'll forget in a hurry.

I would also like to mention the Bevelle Cloister of Trials from Final Fantasy X. I'm not the world's biggest fan of said game to begin with, but that dungeon was just punishment masquerading as gameplay. I'm talking about the one with all the moving floors, in case your memories have gone a bit hazy. It isn't hard in the sense of battles, it's just hard to figure out exactly what you need to do. I don't mind admitting that I referred to a guide for that part of the game.

Whoever designed that dungeon? Die in a fire. Please.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Soluzar

Do you know anyone who actually managed to complete even the patched version? I know about the patch and that it was theoretically possible with a fixed version, but still... that person would have to be superhuman.

I've seen it done on Youtube but that may well have been done using a key-logger. I've also seen a Youtube of a guy getting through the Banyan Tree whilst drunk. It takes him a good 15 attempts though.

Another one I thought of, seeing you talk about Persona is the ridiculously tough Oni you have to fight in SMT:Nocturne. There's three of the fuckers in one dungeon, a sort of underground cave system leading off a railway track. The red one in particular does stupid amounts of damage, buffs constantly and like so many of the bosses in that game, helps himself to extra turns a lot. The only way to beat him is to have a demon that absorbs physical attacks to soak up his press turns, another with a de-buff spell to keep him honest, a third with buffing spells for you and of course someone who can actually do some damage to the fucker.

As with any fight in Nocturne it's emminently do-able once you're set up right but this particular one takes a fucking age to prepare for and can still go wrong thanks to the game being over if your main character gets killed. I think I beat Lucifer in fewer attempts than I took to beat that guy.

The Matador's quite a cunt too, in fact that game is chock full of hard bastards, certainly compared to most other jrpgs where you have to go out of your way to get killed.

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by Shin

As with any fight in Nocturne it's emminently do-able once you're set up right but this particular one takes a fucking age to prepare for and can still go wrong thanks to the game being over if your main character gets killed. I think I beat Lucifer in fewer attempts than I took to beat that guy.

The Matador's quite a cunt too, in fact that game is chock full of hard bastards, certainly compared to most other jrpgs where you have to go out of your way to get killed.

I see I've got quite something to look forward to, then. Prior to trying Persona 3, I hadn't really bothered with the Shin Megami Tensei franchise, despite knowing it to be considered quality. I've picked up Nocturne since, but I haven't actually plauyed it yet.

I should probably also add the Sealed Cavern from Star Ocean 3 to the list. I don't know if I was underlevelled, or what... all I know is that I kept dying and dying and dying. No specific reason, just that the enemies in that area were so powerful that I literally couldn't carry enough healing items to keep my party alive. After a while it pissed me off and I just didn't continue with the game... I might return to it eventually though.

How ya doing, buddy?

Trauma Center: Second Opinion - Operation 6-7: This just pissed me off to no end. The next to the last level in the game and you have to remove four different guilt from four different patients. You're in control of the two doctors and the fact that you can use Healing Touch only once per doctor makes you think you have an advantage, when you actually don't.

First off, freakin Triti. My trick with this originally was to use healing touch and remove all of the thorns and triangles quickly before they regenerated. Unfortunately, when I reached the third operation I needed HT then so I had to figure out how to deal with this properly. 2 days of frustration later I looked up how to do it. The next operation is a breeze, but then comes operation three.

Damn Deftera. It's bad enough that these things were a pain in the ass, but now I have to drain blood overtop of the tumors so I can take care of the tumors and keep the patient's vitals up. On top of that, the only way I can beat the virus is if they combine mix colors...if it's the same color, it just creates another tumor. I failed so many times because of this damn operation that I started to wonder if I would ever beat the game. Then I somehow got lucky and completed it. I felt good, but at the same time I never went back to that level.


Sonic and the Secret Rings - Sand Oasis: Not much to say here except that damn cactus at the end of the level pissed me off to no end because I could never jump over it, plus I kept losing rings until I died. Since you have no lives in this game, it continued endlessly and I just gave up and turned the game off. Next time I had the same problem, but once Sonic finally started backing up when I told him to then it was only a few more tries before I got over that cactus and to the end.

Here's a couple of childhood contributions:

Super Mario Bros. - World 8: The first level isn't so bad, and the first half of the second level wasn't either. The fact that I couldn't make that huge jump in 8-2 was a pain. Once I got past that, 8-3 would've been cake if I still had Fire Mario but most of the time I got to that level I was little Mario. Stupid Hammer Bros...I couldn't figure out their pattern. 8-4 sucked too, but not as bad as the previous two.

Sonic & Knuckles - Sandopolis Zone Act 2: Screw those damn ghosts. I got stuck in this area in different places, but the most memorable one was where I kept going around on a loop then going down, bouncing back up, and repeat endlessly until time ran out. To this day, I still hate that level.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Soluzar

I see I've got quite something to look forward to, then. Prior to trying Persona 3, I hadn't really bothered with the Shin Megami Tensei franchise, despite knowing it to be considered quality. I've picked up Nocturne since, but I haven't actually plauyed it yet.

It's an awesome game. A bit slow going at first but stick with it. The story is a bit ropey but the challenge of the battles more than makes up for it and if you so wish, it can be a grinder's dream.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

I quite probably died more in Nocturne than I ever did in all of the other JRPGs I've played, combined. Of course, that's not really saying much since in most of the JRPGs I've played it's been more of a challenge to actually die than to actually win battles.

And, yes, it is an awesome game. I still keep my PS2 around just for the prospect of playing through it again. I should do that.

I was speaking idiomatically.