[Album] The Metal Thread! (The Zombie Edition)

Originally Posted by Zorro

I'm in no position to disagree since this is your personal experience. However, I know my share of narrow-minded metalheads who do exactly what you described. Of course they deny that it's just because of the sudden popularity of band X or the like, but I get the feeling it is. Maybe you're one of those, too, maybe I am one of those, too, who's to say?

Considering I still like Therion and Finntroll, that's doubtful. :P

Quote:

What I'm saying is that I'd be inclined to agree with you on half of the bands you listed, and I'd disagree on the other half. The popularity argument is effective if it's a huge popularity - the kind that involves the cover of the Rolling Stone for years, stretch limos, regular features on prime-time TV and all that crap, stuff that does fuck up an ego. But Iced Earth and Blind Guardian, for example? The way I see it, that's Schaffer's and Kürsch's going it alone, respectively. Samael? Popular? In this case we define popularity differently. I'd agree in a heartbeat on Metallica, Megadeth or Sepultura, though.

Well, popularity is relative. 10 years ago, few people really knew who Blind Guardian and Iced Earth were, but now a lot of kiddies worship them. None of them have appeared on Rolling Stone or rode limos that I know of, but for a bunch of formerly underground metal bands who used to play in small clubs, they now sell out much larger venues (for example, in 1999 Iced Earth played in Montreal in a small bar in front of at best 500 people, but in 2002 they not only sold out a much larger concert hall, it was overbooked, at over 2000 people - a 400% increase in attendance in just 3 years).
While they are still light years from being Metallica or even Megadeth, it's still a significant increase in popularity for them.

To be frank I'm not sure about Samael's status. Unlike the others I don't have numbers but I strongly suspect that Reign of Light or Solar Soul sells a hell of a lot more than Blood Ritual - call it a hunch :P. Then again, I wouldn't be surprised if Samael just decided to "change direction" and "experiment". It's just saddens me that they turned to such complete shit. And I even thought Eternal was ok!
Reminds me of an anecdote at Wacken. We were waiting for a band and the speakers were playing music in the meantime, as is typical of concerts. Then this techno-industrial kind of rock starts to play, and I was reminded of bands like Oomph (another German Rammstein clone) somehow being on the Wacken bill two years ago. I turn to my boyfriend and say, "great, instead of playing metal they're playing some crappy Rammstein clone or something... I bet that's Oomph or something." He nods absently and says "yeah, sucks." Then he stops, and bursts out laughing. When I ask, he says "in fact, uh... yeah, that's actually a Samael song". Me:

*sigh* Hard to believe the same guys released Blood Ritual and Ceremony of Opposites...

Most amazing jew boots

Originally Posted by Kishin

About Metallica, it was kind of funny. When Megadeth's new album was released this year, it reached about the 30th or so place in the Finnish charts. But on the very same list week, all of Metallica's albums (I mean, all _ten_ of them) were above it, because the shops just started selling them in midprice again. The midprice mania lasted about a month, the albums are full-priced again.

It's very, very odd here.

How odd! Can't say no to a bargain I guess.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Morrigan

Well, popularity is relative. 10 years ago, few people really knew who Blind Guardian and Iced Earth were, but now a lot of kiddies worship them.

Wow! What a strange coincidence! Two bands that play exceptionally good, well-written, well-thought out music gained popularity over a period of 10 years, and are now...gasp...more popular!

Is it just me, or is it cool to like shitty bands/music that never go anywhere?

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Morrigan

Well, popularity is relative. 10 years ago, few people really knew who Blind Guardian and Iced Earth were, but now a lot of kiddies worship them. None of them have appeared on Rolling Stone or rode limos that I know of, but for a bunch of formerly underground metal bands who used to play in small clubs, they now sell out much larger venues (for example, in 1999 Iced Earth played in Montreal in a small bar in front of at best 500 people, but in 2002 they not only sold out a much larger concert hall, it was overbooked, at over 2000 people - a 400% increase in attendance in just 3 years).
While they are still light years from being Metallica or even Megadeth, it's still a significant increase in popularity for them.

Of course I'm not saying their popularity hasn't risen a bit. They are much more popular, but only in the sense that now they belong to the comparatively small group of bands who can actually make a living off their music. (Not that Schaffer needed it, for example. I hear his shop is doing really fine.) I wouldn't begrudge any band this kind of popularity (and this kind of money), because optimistic idiot that I am, I figure it allows them to concentrate on their music. Of course, once they're doing fine financially, the music of some of them starts to change. But I'm willing to file that under progression, moving on, making the music they always wanted to make anyway, a change of taste or whatever you wanna call it. But don't forget that others have a change of heart without an accompanying increase in sales figures.

Then there's no accounting for taste. I liked the old Iced Earth, don't get me wrong, but Gettysburg was fucking awesome. And while I see the discrepancy between the first BG speed metal outings and their modern albums, I can't complain. I don't like Hansi's voice, I really don't, but I have to acknowledge that it takes much more musical talent to write and pull off their modern stuff than the old stuff. So if they manage to rope in new groups of potential future metalheads, more power to them.

Originally Posted by Morrigan

To be frank I'm not sure about Samael's status.

Me neither, but I think they had their biggest high with Passage, popularity-wise. But I'll admit I've lost sight of them, so I could be wrong.

Originally Posted by Morrigan

Oomph (another German Rammstein clone)

I know, I'm a German myself. Oomph are a little too popular around here, if you ask me - but what can I say, anything's better than Tokio Hotel *g*

Zorro

How ya doing, buddy?

I saw one Oomph music video from the first Monsters of Metal DVDs and man what a terrible band. Not to mention a terrible name as well. Almost as bad as Subway to Sally.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by DarkLink2135

Wow! What a strange coincidence! Two bands that play exceptionally good, well-written, well-thought out music gained popularity over a period of 10 years, and are now...gasp...more popular!

Is it just me, or is it cool to like shitty bands/music that never go anywhere?

Did you, like, miss the context of this post entirely (you know, the discussion we've been having for the past few posts), or are you just a retarded douchebag who missed the point completely and tried to be witty with petty sarcasm?

Either way, fuck off.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

The discussion over the past few posts has been how you've been trying to rationalize your elitism.

Bands becoming popular is not an automatic ticket to suck-ism. And it's pathetic when you think you can't like a band because of that, and instead have to somehow make your taste in music rational. You've been trying to wrap it up in fuck knows what.

Taste in music isn't rational so I don't even see why you are doing what you are doing in the first place. Like what you like because you do, not because it's "cool."

Either way, fuck off.

I was speaking idiomatically.

If you are able to read she said several times that she doesn't dislike something because it gets popular, but there is an alarming correlation between a band becoming popular and their sound changing in a way that alienates a lot of their older fans. If you can't hear that in some of the examples given I don't even know what to say.

Most amazing jew boots

And as I said, it's a rationalization for her musical elitism.

She doesn't need to rationalize her taste in music. It's already pretty damn good, at least in most people's opinion, as far as I can see.

Bands become popular because they play exceptional music that appeals to a lot of people. In some cases, yes, that causes bands to stop trying and they just mass-produce repetitive shit. But I don't believe that's the norm. And I'm not saying every band that never becomes popular plays shitty music. They either make some bad decisions in terms of publicity, they don't play music that appeals to a broad audience, etc.

Good songwriting and talent gets you somewhere. While I despise all the "kiddie worshipers" as Morrigan very aptly defined it, I don't stop liking bands because their fans are a bunch of slovering morons. And that's all I'm really seeing here. Maybe it's not cool to like Blind Guardian anymore in the eyes of "true" metal fans, but I still don't give a fuck - they're my favorite band, and it's because I like them, not because of some cultural popular movement.

I'm tired of seeing people complain about band popularity, and it's even worse when they try to package it up as something else. Does anyone else think it's GOOD that metal is moving more 'mainstream' so to speak? That good bands are getting popular with people? That more people are listening to metal, driving up the demand for more bands, more stuff to hear?

I listen to stuff irregardless of how popular it is, and anyone who truly appreciates music should do the same. I don't agree with the standpoint that there's a oft-occurring correlation between a band getting popular and that band starting to suck. Or even "alienating older fans" if you want to try and pawn it off as that. BG changed their sound way before they got popular. Might it be that bands change sound simply because that's the direction they want to take? Maybe they get popular because they've changed sounds? A sort of "hey people seem to respond well to this, let's take this direction" sort of attitude?

Bands aren't always entirely about the money, but you don't keep doing something that doesn't feed you or maintain your equipment.

At any rate I'm going to take this discussion any further - it's just going to spiral downward into a morass of bickering shit and neither one of us are going to change our opinions, and as such, it's an utterly useless venture. Morrigan thinks I'm an ass, and she's probably right, I think she's an elitist who can't admit it, that's not going to change with another 10 pages worth of filth plugging up an otherwise perfectly good thread.

FELIPE NO

I tend to reconcile the comparative suckiness of now-popular bands by listening to both their old and new material.

That's how I roll.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by DarkLink2135

Maybe it's not cool to like Blind Guardian anymore in the eyes of "true" metal fans, but I still don't give a fuck - they're my favorite band, and it's because I like them, not because of some cultural popular movement.

If you calm down and go back to reading her whole post, you'll see she wasn't saying anything negative about Blind Guardian or Iced Earth. Relax ~

Also, omfg so many concerts coming to France. Finntroll in december of course, but also that one I think Morrigan would particularly like:

http://cernunnos.lesacteursdelombre.com

And finally:
Ensiferum at Élysée Montmartre (Paris) on 9 Apr 2008 – Last.fm

It isnt announced anywhere else but on last.fm though so I'm wary ...

Jam it back in, in the dark.

I'll be having a nice gig-filled new year from the December 29th to 31th: Moonsorrow, Finntroll, Turisas, Swallow the Sun, Mokoma, Von Hertzen Brothers, The Black League, Mannhai, Ensiferum, Kings of Fools and Snipe Drive, with the bolded ones being all levels of awesome. \=O~/

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by RAZGRIZ-3

If you are able to read she said several times that she doesn't dislike something because it gets popular, but there is an alarming correlation between a band becoming popular and their sound changing in a way that alienates a lot of their older fans. If you can't hear that in some of the examples given I don't even know what to say.

Don't worry, he's apparently stuck in an infinite feedback loop. Basically, it goes like this:

Me: *rants a bit about popularity in general*
Him: Stop being such an elitist! *use of petty sarcasm to illustrate (lack of) point*
Me: No. I don't hate bands because they are popular. I just happen to hate a lot of bands (not all) that do become popular and am basically observing a pattern. There is a crucial, significant difference.
Him: Blah blah blah omg elitist blah blah blah

Well, something like that, anyway. But I'm bored, so I'll actually bother replying. Woe is me.

Originally Posted by DarkLink2135

She doesn't need to rationalize her taste in music. It's already pretty damn good, at least in most people's opinion, as far as I can see.

You fail at reading. I'm not rationalizing a damn thing.

Quote:

Bands become popular because they play exceptional music that appeals to a lot of people.

Yeah, Justin Timberlake sure is "exceptional".

Quote:

I don't stop liking bands because their fans are a bunch of slovering morons.

I wouldn't still like the old Slayer albums if I did that, and it's a well-known fact that Slayer fans are the second dumbest creatures on Earth after Pantera fans. No one here advocated this position so you are knocking down a strawman.

Quote:

And that's all I'm really seeing here. Maybe it's not cool to like Blind Guardian anymore in the eyes of "true" metal fans, but I still don't give a fuck - they're my favorite band, and it's because I like them, not because of some cultural popular movement.

Ah, it all makes sense now. I lumped your favourite band among the "bands that are getting worse lately" category, so your vagina itches. Got it.

Quote:

I'm tired of seeing people complain about band popularity, and it's even worse when they try to package it up as something else. Does anyone else think it's GOOD that metal is moving more 'mainstream' so to speak? That good bands are getting popular with people? That more people are listening to metal, driving up the demand for more bands, more stuff to hear?

I don't see it as neither a good nor a bad thing. "More stuff to hear" isn't a good thing if all it does is increase the number of trend-following, boring clones.

Quote:

I don't agree with the standpoint that there's a oft-occurring correlation between a band getting popular and that band starting to suck.

It's called experience.

Quote:

Might it be that bands change sound simply because that's the direction they want to take? Maybe they get popular because they've changed sounds?

Yeah, except I addressed those already. Oh, right, failure at reading... carry on.

Quote:

Bands aren't always entirely about the money, but you don't keep doing something that doesn't feed you or maintain your equipment.

Actually most bands do not live off their music. So yeah, plenty of people DO continue.

Quote:

Morrigan thinks I'm an ass, and she's probably right, I think she's an elitist who can't admit it, that's not going to change with another 10 pages worth of filth plugging up an otherwise perfectly good thread.

LOL. I have acknowledged my elitism plenty of times already. But my elitism isn't about popularity, it's about quality. I have little tolerance for mediocrity, that's all.

<rant>
The best example of this I can find is of Iced Earth at Wacken this summer: they played Stormrider ("OMG THE RIFFS DUUUUUDE "), and then followed with a new song ("....z..z.z.zzz.... mmm wha..?" no badass riffs, no balls, just a plodding attempt at a melody that had neither build-up nor anything of interest). The contrast was so staggering that I wanted to cry (allow me an hyperbole for a bit). My boyfriend and I just looked at each others at the same time, and both shook our heads helplessly wondering what happened. Some say that Schaffer lost his creativity long ago, but I actually liked Horror Show, so go figure.
</rant>

Originally Posted by niki

If you calm down and go back to reading her whole post, you'll see she wasn't saying anything negative about Blind Guardian or Iced Earth. Relax ~

In truth, I kinda was. *ducks* I don't hate the bands, but I find their last two (respectively) to be quite, quite disappointing. On the other hand, Nightfall in Middle-Earth (one of their "later" albums) and Horror Show are pretty damn awesome. Seeing as the new Demons & Wizards was also near coma-inducing, I'll chalk it up to Hansi & Schaffer to be running out of ideas.

Quote:

Also, omfg so many concerts coming to France. Finntroll in december of course, but also that one I think Morrigan would particularly like:

http://cernunnos.lesacteursdelombre.com

And finally:
Ensiferum at Élysée Montmartre (Paris) on 9 Apr 2008 &ndash; Last.fm

It isnt announced anywhere else but on last.fm though so I'm wary ...

First link doesn't work for me. Second one has UTF-8 issues apparently, and yeah, it does look mighty suspicious.
But speaking of Ensiferum, I'm seeing them tomorrow... wee! Should be fun. At some venue I've never been to, too. I hope the sound won't suck.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Quote:

Ah, it all makes sense now. I lumped your favourite band among the "bands that are getting worse lately" category, so your vagina itches. Got it.

No, I just think you are an idiot.

You find them disappointing because they are becoming more popular, and have to hide that fact behind some pathetic facade. I called you out on it and you PMS'd all over the place.

That's all this is, and no amount of douching all over this forum is going to change my view on that.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Darklink, you might consider that when everyone else in the thread agrees with Morrigan, a fairly rare occurrence in and of itself, that you could be the one who misinterpreted a post in this specific situation.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Morrigan

First link doesn't work for me.

Well, it's basically a Pagan/Medieval indoor festival taking place in the biggest concert room/nightclub of Paris. There will be:

Eluveitie
Skyforger
Bran Barr
Stille Volk
Varg
Heidevolk
Aktarum
Niflheim
Folge dem wind
Itakk
Bella Sorte

The last 2 are medieval/folk bands. That and animations, shops, restaurants, all in a kind of "medieval" fashion heh. I was mentioning you since Stille Volk will be there, who are the Hantaoma guys. =)

I can't wait to see Heidevolk, personally. <3

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

WHOA HOLY SHIT.

I wanna go to Paris. Now. Seriously, I think I'm the only person in this country who listens to pagan/folk metal.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by DarkLink2135

No, I just think you are an idiot.

You find them disappointing because they are becoming more popular, and have to hide that fact behind some pathetic facade. I called you out on it and you PMS'd all over the place.

That's all this is, and no amount of douching all over this forum is going to change my view on that.

LOL! I find them disappointing because the music is coma-inducing derivativeness with no balls and I said this time and time again. But thanks for proving my point. Here, have some of this.

Originally Posted by knkwzrd

Darklink, you might consider that when everyone else in the thread agrees with Morrigan, a fairly rare occurrence in and of itself, that you could be the one who misinterpreted a post in this specific situation.

Hehehe... No kidding.

Originally Posted by niki

Well, it's basically a Pagan/Medieval indoor festival taking place in the biggest concert room/nightclub of Paris. There will be:

Eluveitie
Skyforger
Bran Barr
Stille Volk
Varg
Heidevolk
Aktarum
Niflheim
Folge dem wind
Itakk
Bella Sorte

The last 2 are medieval/folk bands. That and animations, shops, restaurants, all in a kind of "medieval" fashion heh. I was mentioning you since Stille Volk will be there, who are the Hantaoma guys. =)

I can't wait to see Heidevolk, personally. <3

Dear fucking Cthulhu almighty, Stille Volk!!1!1 *faints*
I really, really hate you now. Officially. I saw Ensiferum Thursday, for the second time and it was awesome, but I still hate you.
Montreal is pretty good for metal concerts, but for real European folk music we are drier than DarkLink's cunt (sorry, couldn't resist ). The best we get are things like... these guys.

If you can get to meet the Stille Volk guys (I'm assuming you are not going to miss this festival), ask them what the hell they're up to. I want a new album. A new Hantoma will also work.

How ya doing, buddy?

I'm checking out some of these folk metal bands and I'm digging them. I definitely enjoy Stille Volk. Though it will take a while to digest them as I'm downloading many bands at once.

How ya doing, buddy?

Yeah, I had checked Heidevolk a while ago but for some reason didn't really pay much attention, but I tried them again and I do like them.

Let me know if you have anything you recommend in that list. Yeah, I'm lazy and will let you do my work for me since you have a headstart. Other than Stille Volk, are there any non-metal bands in there or are those all folk metal?

There's nowhere I can't reach.

They're pretty much all folk metal, except for Itakk and Bella Sorte. I kind of liked Bran Barr, though I'll have to go back and relisten to these bands to absorb them better.

Additional Spam:
I got some new CDs, Enslaved and Arsis in preparation of the upcoming tour.

Arsis - A Celebration of Guilt
Arsis - United In Regret
Enslaved - Isa
Enslaved/Satryicon - The Forest Is My Throne/Yggdrasill

Great stuff, though I'm a bit meh on Satyricon.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Man, I would love to see Enslaved and Arsis. Get A Diamond for Disease (by Arsis) too; it's a great EP.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Morrigan

Yeah, I had checked Heidevolk a while ago but for some reason didn't really pay much attention, but I tried them again and I do like them.

Let me know if you have anything you recommend in that list. Yeah, I'm lazy and will let you do my work for me since you have a headstart. Other than Stille Volk, are there any non-metal bands in there or are those all folk metal?

Eluveitie is nice as well and should be awesome live. They're actually pretty popular nowadays, I think. Bran Barr I listened in the past but I only remember something quite generic. Honestly, except maybe for Heidevolk, I probably wouldnt go to any of those band's standalone gigs. The idea of the festival is what seducing me. =p

I bought my tickets for this and Finntroll btw. The huge april concert with Moonsorrow, Ensiferum etc ... seems to have good chances to be confirmed, after all.

Also, I'm in a Falkenbach phase. I always liked him but never like I do these days. Amusing how music likings come and go.

I was speaking idiomatically.

He needs to release something new, and not just a load of rerecordings... It's been what, four years since Ok Nefna? :/

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Listening to new Astrofaes now. So, so far away from Those Whose Past is Immortal that I loved so much. Very different sound and atmosphere. Don't know what's up with them. =/

Also, even if kinda simplistic overall, an interesting read:

Political Statements from Protector (Summoning)

FELIPE NO