[General Discussion] Are developers afraid to make 2D games on Consoles now?

Originally Posted by Megalith

I have a hard time considering anything that isn't flat and hand-drawn to be 2-D. StarCraft looks 3-Dish to me.

StarCraft uses no 3D effects. In fact, DOOM is not true 3D as evident by the sprites and level layouts. Anything that is pre-rendered and doesn't use 3D models is 2D. StarCraft does use the 3rd dimension, but so does some side scrollers (you can move up-down, left-right and move back and forth in the environment without moving higher up).

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Most, maybe even all of the 2D games that come out nowadays are arcade fighters. They get alot fo cash while they're in the arcades in Japan, but don't sell nearly as well when they reach consoles. Considering that the US has a declining arcade scene and a bad record with 2D game sales on modern consoles, I can understand why some publishers would be hesitant.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Rocca

I still demand a 2D Castlevania on the PS2. The level of sprite animation, glowy effects and bells 'n whistles I want to see on that game is astronomical.

Hell yeah. In my opinion, Castlevania is meant to be a 2D game.


Personally, I think a lot of companies are ruining their games. Megaman is meant to be 2D, as is Castlevania, and Sonic. Well, that's how I see it atleast.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Not everything is best in 3D, and there is still great gameplay that can not be done with 3D. If one day I truly saw that 2D was done, I'd probably give up new games not in protest, but in depression. I'm worried sick that 2D Metroid might be coming to an end, considering the (rightly deserved) success of Metroid Prime and the end of the GBAs life cycle (the DS might be one of the last great 2D systems, but even it gets more and more 3D-centric each day).

- WraithTwo -

I was speaking idiomatically.

I want to see a Castlevania using the graphics engine from GGX.

But then it'd just be an stupid anime.

::stupid teardrop forms next to Alucard's head::

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

I think game developers should use the graphics that would better suit the game that they are making. I dont wanna play a game in 3d that would be more functional in 2d.

To me, theres still alot of potential in 2d gaming.

FELIPE NO

Graphics will plateau when we reach FFX CG levels of quality, and that won't be for a while, and by then another "goal", so to speak, will have arisen for graphics. The industry is noticably turning towards physics and interaction in games, with the PS3 (by nature of it's processor) and Revolution (because of it's controller and rumored PPU) leading the way.

I highly doubt 2D will climb back on top, especially with public perception about those times of games as it is. High resolution sprites and backgrounds coupled with next gen effects would be damn nice though.

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Pretty much from here on out most 2D games made will go for a highly stylized artistic look, which is how games should look anyways. Playing a game that looks like a crappy summer blockbuster (movie) would only show how much we lust for games where people look and move realistically.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

The best game of this generation is 2D

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Thread over...

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

I don't think its so much an idea that 3D looks better than 2D, its just that 2D can be seen as an extremely limited medium when compared to 3D. Though most hardcore gamers would disagree, I think a lot of developers still aim to do something new and different with their games, and 2D simply does not offer a good platform to do that. 2D has been around for a long time, and if you think about it everything that could be done in 2D space has pretty much already been done and there really isn't much variety in genres when confined to two dimension.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Most games I think would be rather better as sidescrollers aka 2D(or 3D but still 2D to a degree.) such as Metroid and other games such as as those.

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Originally Posted by Grubdog

The best game of this generation is 2D

Except that's 2D games with 3D enviroments, idiot. Klonoa was one of the first games to see this in and now it's spread like fucking aids.

Why can't people be satisfied with the obscure, unpopular, and possibly japanese 2D games which we still see. I'm sure Disgaea didn't sell because of it's 3D battle levels, oh no.

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by Zio

Most games I think would be rather better as sidescrollers aka 2D(or 3D but still 2D to a degree.) such as Metroid and other games such as as those.

And that's what Cetra was getting at.. that's pretty limiting. Metroid Prime 2D probably would've been a completely different experience, far less immersive than what we've got now. How many 2D side scrollers have we seen since gaming started? Things would have to get pretty gimmicky for them to start becoming popular again.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by Elixir

Except that's 2D games with 3D enviroments, idiot. Klonoa was one of the first games to see this in and now it's spread like fucking aids.

Why can't people be satisfied with the obscure, unpopular, and possibly japanese 2D games which we still see. I'm sure Disgaea didn't sell because of it's 3D battle levels, oh no.

Elixir no need for name calling now, it's still 2D in a sense since sidescrolling(I think that is what that game is) is 2D shape...

And yes I know MP and MP2 would have been totally different but then again, at first I cursed at how they made it into a FPS, now I'm totally like it after playing it for a year or so.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Zio

Elixir no need for name calling now, it's still 2D in a sense since sidescrolling(I think that is what that game is) is 2D shape...

That's like calling Ikaruga a proper 2D game. Face it, if the backgrounds aren't 2D, it isn't a true 2D game. Killer Instinct Gold is another example of how they managed to make a game which has sprites and 3D enviroments.

There isn't that many purely 2D-based games available these days, but that's bcause the gaming industry is rubbish now.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Elixir

Except that's 2D games with 3D enviroments, idiot. Klonoa was one of the first games to see this in and now it's spread like fucking aids.

Why can't people be satisfied with the obscure, unpopular, and possibly japanese 2D games which we still see. I'm sure Disgaea didn't sell because of it's 3D battle levels, oh no.

3D background, not environment. The gameplay is 2D.

Is Super Mario Bros 3D because the pipes have shadows?

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by nazpyro

A 2D game has a much more "classic" feel to it, so personally, I'd leave that genre to classic gaming and its enthusiasts. I'm not saying that there shold be no more 2D games ever, but if a company is willing to develop a new epic 2D console game, knowing the risks, well...

Only 'classic' because you grew up on them. A 3D title can be just as timeless, enthralling and captivating as any game.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Grubdog

Is Super Mario Bros 3D because the pipes have shadows?

You can have shadows in 2D games without having models.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Well, I'm always happy with 2D sidescrollers with 3D backgrounds.

I feel it's a good way to stay update with graphics and keep some good sidescrolling gameplay.

If a game has the ability to have 3D backgrounds then I say go for it. It can really only get better.

How ya doing, buddy?

Namco keeps the 2D dream alive on current consoles.

"Well boys, Dreamcast is here"
"NAMCO MUSEUM AND MR. DRILLER"
"Yes, yes!"

"Here's PlayStation 2, I think Sony said something about this being four thousand times more powerful than the human brain"
"It needs Namco Museum"

"GameCube and Xbox are due out soon, we should think about making some new ga-"NAMCO MUSEUM FOR BOTH"
"You're on a ROLL"
"ALSO, we'll make .. MR. DRILLER for GameCube"
"Whoa whoa, let's not get ahead of ourselves here"
"Hey guys how about we make a new 2D game?"
"What, and waste precious time in thinking how to release the same four games over and over again? What are you, some kind of dickhead? You're fucking fired"

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Who the fuck cares what the backgrounds look like as long as the game is still played solely on the X-Y axis. 2D is still 2D.

And yes, Grubdog, that game was incredible.

FELIPE NO

I've read a few articles that mentionned that even though some developers still want to make 2d games, it's this ideology that the game won't sell that holds them back nowadays.

Instead, 2D games are still well alive on handhelds, and will probably remain that way for some time to come. I mean Treasure, (the developers behind Ikaruga, Gunstar Heroes) focus mainly on handhelds these days, and they make some of the best 2D games around.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

It's quite obivious that some developers lost their talent trying to make the switch from 2D to 3D (the Sonic Team being a good example, though the Sonic Adventure games were great). Anytime you try to make a 2D franchise 3D, something is lost in translation.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Monkey King

Sony won't allow 2D games because they honestly don't sell, and Sony doesn't want to dilute their console library with "bad" games, which is how the Atari was undone.

No no, they don't allow 2d games period. At least SCEU doesn't. Metal Slug 3? The cream a la cream of the series, it was more of a piece of art then a game itself with all the stuff they creamed into it (it featured much, MUCH more ideas and almost perfect implementations of them then many 3d games do today) - and they didn't allow the USA release because it was a 2d game. It was released in Japan, in Europe, on the Xbox, but not on the USA PS2. They don't want "graphically inferior" games or some such bullshit.

2D games are still being made and released in Japan, and they are doing fine and dandy. There's just the fact that outside Japan, clever marketing can create a much bigger hype to a game, ultimately selling it even if its a turd. And what's easier to hype then fancy graphics? Do a fancy techdemo and label it Metal Gear Solid xy and you will instantly grind the sales of the competition to a halt even if your machine is not out yet. It's all about the hype, and you can't create enough hype with a 2d game for it to sell outside of Japan.

At least in Japan they actually care about the game itself so thats not a danger there, and we can still get some awesome 2d titles every now and then.

There's nowhere I can't reach.