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[General Discussion] Sonic the Hedgehog - Mediocre Madness!!!
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vuigun
meh moo.


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Old Mar 6, 2006, 08:20 AM Local time: Mar 6, 2006, 08:20 AM #51 of 65
Originally Posted by SuperSonic
I might be interested if they did a Sonic DDR. As for anything

else, well the Mario ones are good...so why not give it a shot?

Sonic did okay in Virtua Striker...the only thing I'd be
Mario did it, but Sonic games are nearly as good. Sonic Team doesn't have everything together like Mario.

I'd rather if Sonic Team didn't start making endless spin-offs since I they haven't even make a GREAT sonic 3D game. If they can get their Franchise base right, then I'd be fine with them trying to venture off but now I currently think they aren't ready.

Double Post:
Originally Posted by Sin Ansem

You know what? I think partly the reason why Sonic has gotten weaker in games is because of the fans. Yeah, I said it. The younger crowd eats up everything, giving Sega the okay of letting their games suck (read: be mediocre like Shadow). The older crowd is at fault too, simply because most of them are angsty fanboys that argue amongst themselves on what they want on a Sonic game. Most of them want repeats of 3&K, some want some fucked up system that'd be hard to program for (Give him 100 unique moves! SERIOUSLY?!), and some say "screw the story!" Wow, thanks for giving us Sonic Heroes, you bastards.

Can't we have a GOOD story? GOOD gameplay? AWESOME villains? Use the old characters? Sega's either pandering to their fanbase when it shouldn't count or ignoring it when they should, if they just made things good and feel like Sonic, then we wouldn't have these problems.
Wow, that is the most accurate statement that I have ever heard. It really is.

So many fans are fighting over what they want and how they want it that Sonic Team doesn't even know what to do.

It really surprises me when a game like Shadow the Hedgehog comes out and many kids say, "reviews were all wrong" and "this is the best Sonic game EVER!!!". It truly sickens me. The kids actually accept crap and actually don't want any better then a gun weilding angsty generic hedgehog.

My beloved franchise is going in the toilet. I'm truly scared to see what Sonic Team is going to attempt on Sonic Next Gen. I'm pretty sure they will try to do something to appeal to ALL fans and try to experiment some more. It's horrible, the fans actually don't let Sonic games be mediocre and then call them heaven-sent games. I just can't take it anymore.

Sin Ansem, you hit the nail right on the head. Let's do brunch sometime...

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Last edited by vuigun; Mar 6, 2006 at 06:06 PM. Reason: Automerged double post.
Lyth
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Old Mar 6, 2006, 09:49 PM #52 of 65
Originally Posted by RABicle
Sonic games have always been horribly mediocre. You can't seriously consider the hold right and jump occasionally mechanics of the Mega Drive games to be decent. Every level was trial and error because you moved so fast that you'd never learn where the enemy, spikes, cliff was until you suffered it's effects. These were piss poor games and your hazy 8 year old, have never played a video game before, memories cloud you're judgement.
"You can't seriously consider the hold right and jump occasionally mechanics of the Mega Drive games to be decent."

Umm, ALL of the games back then were basically like that. Look at mario for example. You basically just ran right, jumped every once in a while and maybe flew and you'd hit the end of the level. Hell, that was basically the same as megaman, the only real differance was megaman had his mega buster, and couldn't jump on peoples head to damage then.

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I am not a clever pony...
vuigun
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Old Mar 7, 2006, 12:22 PM Local time: Mar 7, 2006, 12:22 PM #53 of 65
I understand what RABicle is trying to say. I've felt that way a lot when I'm playing Sonic games.

If you don't really remember, what enemy is where and what cliff is where, then you'll most likely lose a lot.

But I won't call the game mediocre because of that, I call it a different type of gameplay. It's makes for a speedy type of, "on your toes" gameplay. It's something that doesn't happen in typical platformers. I don't call it mediocre gameplay, I call it a different kind of gameplay.

I was speaking idiomatically.
Sin Ansem
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Old Mar 7, 2006, 12:25 PM #54 of 65
Originally Posted by soniclover
Wow, that is the most accurate statement that I have ever heard. It really is.

So many fans are fighting over what they want and how they want it that Sonic Team doesn't even know what to do.
Quoted for fucking truth. It's bascially a summary of what I said.

Dear fans of Sonic Team:

SHUT THE FUCK UP AND LET THEM DECIDE ON SOMETHING GOOD THANK YOU AND GOODNIGHT.


Quote:
Sin Ansem, you hit the nail right on the head. Let's do brunch sometime...
I'm glad we see eye to eye.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?
SuperSonic
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Old Mar 7, 2006, 07:14 PM #55 of 65
Originally Posted by soniclover
Mario did it, but Sonic games are nearly as good.
Is that so? I'm glad that we see eye to...nah, I know it's a typo. I hear what you're saying. All that needs to be looked at are Sonic R and Sonic Shuffle. They were ok at best, but they just didn't measure up to the Mario ones. That's probably why there weren't any sequels. Seriously, I bet I'd love Sonic Riders if I played it more and figured out the controls (damn you school).

As far as Sonic X goes, I hate the English version but I LOVE the Japanese version. It may seem kiddy and cute at times, but that's alright with me. I'm glad they made it...I was a bit disappointed with the Sonic OVA.

As to what Sin Ansem said...I somewhat agree. Growing up, I liked Sonic the way he was one the American cartoons and the Genesis games. Today, I liked him back in Adventure 2 and Heroes...until they did fired the voice cast without notice and hired those damn 4 Kids assholes. After watching the first season of Sonic X (subbed), I wanted to see a Sonic game that was more for teenagers and grown-ups...like cursing and stuff. Then I played Shadow the Hedgehog...I got what I wanted, the cussing. However, putting a gun in a hedgehog's hand and giving mission objectives that slow you down was a bad idea. The ratings that game got, were a bit harsh though. I felt they should have been higher...maybe 6/10.

Until I have a better understanding of what the next-gen Sonic game will be about, I think it looks cool. All I've seen so far in it is Sonic and...Super Sonic. I guess since they're still working on it, that's all we can see until E3.

FELIPE NO
vuigun
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Old Mar 8, 2006, 11:41 AM Local time: Mar 8, 2006, 11:41 AM #56 of 65
The constant cussing Shadow did in Shadow the Hedgehog just got annoying.

The way they had that in an actual Sonic game made me lose faith in Sonic Team. I just can't believe they caved in like that and put swear words in there. It's not just the fact that they actually cussed, it's more of the fact that Shadow did it so much. But I guess the extreeeeeme teens loved it or something.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?
Kaiten
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Old Mar 10, 2006, 11:06 PM Local time: Mar 10, 2006, 09:06 PM #57 of 65
Originally Posted by soniclover
The constant cussing Shadow did in Shadow the Hedgehog just got annoying.

The way they had that in an actual Sonic game made me lose faith in Sonic Team. I just can't believe they caved in like that and put swear words in there. It's not just the fact that they actually cussed, it's more of the fact that Shadow did it so much. But I guess the extreeeeeme teens loved it or something.
They should just cut their losses and put all their effort in the next gen Sonic game. OR even better, they could make a re-cut version of Sonic 2 with the original vision Yuji Naka had, Hidden Palace Zone and more.

Jam it back in, in the dark.
Gakineko
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Old Mar 16, 2006, 04:23 AM Local time: Mar 16, 2006, 01:23 AM #58 of 65
i personally don't think they're doing that poorly of a job. it's quite hard to choose the sort of people you're not going to listen to when designing a game. there are TONS of voices that want their own image, and as the designers start hearing the echoes, they lose focus. I thought sonic adventure was pretty good. sonic adventure 2, while lacking adventure, was quite long in itself. i almost collected all of the emblems in adventure, while adventure 2 i'm somewhere over 3/4. this length in time that its taking me is something i appreciate. the same reason that i liked s&k+sonic3. when locked on, it took quite some time to finish the game and get all the emeralds/master emeralds. this depth just seems to have been missing lately... i didn't have much of a problem with the sonic advance series either. the first one was pretty decent. the twist of a couple new features was ok by me. in SAdventure 2, they corrected the "hold right and jump" problem a little by adding more pits and those SP rings required to enter the bizzare bonus stage , which required some stage scavenging to find (this difficulty took some getting used to, but i thought was pretty decent). Sonic Advance 3 seemed to be a bit faster (speed) than the previous 2, but less linear. with the addition of even more places to fall to one's death, i couldn't hope to clear gaps that were too large to begin with. finding the chao/key in the stages to get to the bonus stage seemed less tedious than the SP rings, but less difficult. i played a little bit of shadow the hedgehog, and i have to say that it was made pretty well for the type of game it was trying to be. it didn't give the appearance of a full on adventure to last. if i had liked to run around shooting/beating up enemies in my path to get to a goal, it would have been more enjoyable... but i just had no motive to continue playing. the "go fast for 5 seconds, then stop completely to clear the enemy-congested path" thing just didn't work for me as well as the "hold right and jump to avoid enemies" gameplay. The older games relied a bit on "knowing when you were wasting time" killing every enemy in the stage just to get through smoothly. rather than engaging in a risk of losing all of my rings, i liked being able to avoid enemies rather than having to have to stop to make room. i dont mind this digression from "mainstream sonic", but having another release of a mainstream sonic title would be nice.

without having an understanding of where "crappy" games lie, where's the line for good games going to be drawn?

Double Post:
-please excuse the ommitance of paragraphs...

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Last edited by Gakineko; Mar 16, 2006 at 04:24 AM. Reason: Automerged double post.
vuigun
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Old Mar 16, 2006, 08:15 AM Local time: Mar 16, 2006, 08:15 AM #59 of 65
Originally Posted by Gakineko
without having an understanding of where "crappy" games lie, where's the line for good games going to be drawn?

Well, when I think of what makes a crappy game, I think of some questions....

1. Do I only care about this game because my favorite characters are in it?(That's what I was thinking about while playing Sonic Riders)

2. What does the game do well? Does it keep my interest and make me want to play it again? (That's what I was thinking about while playing Shadow the Hedgehog)

3. Does it seem like the developers tried with things like a good level design or tried to make a good story or have fun gameplay or did they put garbage out and just hope the "fans" would just buy it? (I was thinking this while playing Shadow and Riders)

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.
Sin Ansem
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Old Mar 16, 2006, 02:12 PM #60 of 65
I think they put more effort into Shadow than they did with Riders.

But ten bucks says they ignore their beta testers.

They're also succumbing to marketing AND making the games much harder (just look at Riders, Advance 3 and Rush's bosses, for example) which is why the Sonic franchise seems to be pandering out and not as keen to our tastes. Why exactly the fanbase is praising Sonic as the pros hate him more and more is still confusing to me. I saw the opposite happen with Heroes... but from Shadow onward I'm seeing "ZOMG BEST SONIC EVAR" from fanboys and "ZOMG TEH N00 SAW-NIK SUX" from pro reviewers.

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Zip
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Old Mar 16, 2006, 04:21 PM Local time: Mar 16, 2006, 11:21 PM #61 of 65
i think that so called "fan base" didnt find sonic when it first came out, so they might not have really relized what we fell in love with, sure wasnt Sonics 2871689 friends and Chaos.

no homo
Gakineko
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Old Mar 16, 2006, 11:37 PM Local time: Mar 16, 2006, 08:37 PM #62 of 65
Originally Posted by soniclover
Well, when I think of what makes a crappy game, I think of some questions....
i was stressing the contrast between the crappy/not crappy games. all of the crappy games make me realize that my favorites are so much better, so it's not a complete waste to have games of a series that are worse than eachother. It might even be a marketing strategy to keep the fans buying intent on getting something good, "like back in the day" (;^_^).
Its also the different margin of audience they're selling the "obscure" sonic games to. im sure that out there somewhere are people that refused to play anything with sonic on it, but because sonic riders was a racing game, they gave it a shot. so these multi-flavored titles could possibly be a reach to the people that aren't familiar with sonic in hopes of reeling them in when there is a major release. these kids growing up weren't raised by megadrive/genesis like some of us, so they dont know much about all the 2d heritage behind sonic. speaking of which, sonic gems, and mega collection+ were quite nice. i'm quite glad that they felt like bringing back the classics at least. when was the last time mario had a collection????

How ya doing, buddy?
Kaiten
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Old Mar 17, 2006, 12:14 AM Local time: Mar 16, 2006, 10:14 PM #63 of 65
I honestly can't comment on any Sonic game published after SA2, but I've heard stories...
So how does the current batch of Sonic games compare to the crap we were shovled in the Sonic Team's first great absence (Post S&K 1994- Pre SA1 1998)?

FELIPE NO
Elixir
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Old Mar 17, 2006, 12:26 AM Local time: Mar 17, 2006, 06:26 PM #64 of 65
Terrible. Since Sonic Adventure, the only worthwhile Sonic game is Sonic Rush.

The GBA games are reasonable, but I wouldn't say that they feel anything like the Megadrive titles.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?
vuigun
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Old Mar 17, 2006, 12:23 PM Local time: Mar 17, 2006, 12:23 PM #65 of 65
Originally Posted by Sin Ansem
I think they put more effort into Shadow than they did with Riders.

But ten bucks says they ignore their beta testers.

They're also succumbing to marketing AND making the games much harder (just look at Riders, Advance 3 and Rush's bosses, for example) which is why the Sonic franchise seems to be pandering out and not as keen to our tastes. Why exactly the fanbase is praising Sonic as the pros hate him more and more is still confusing to me. I saw the opposite happen with Heroes... but from Shadow onward I'm seeing "ZOMG BEST SONIC EVAR" from fanboys and "ZOMG TEH N00 SAW-NIK SUX" from pro reviewers.
Sonic Team actually hasn't put effort in a lot of their titles. I remember way back on Sonic R, a mediocre game with horrible character balancing and a total of 5 tracks. To me, it seemed like they were relying more on the music in the game to get the game some points.

Shadow the Hedgehog didn't seemed like much effort was put in it either. The level designs and horible non-CGI cutscenes. I just didn't think they thought the game out.

I thought they actually did put more effort into Riders though because of all of the unlockables. Of course, I was comparing it to the depth of Sonic R so that's not really saying much.

But I do see what you mean about the reviews. Fans of a game are to easily influenced. People go around telling them to not listen to reveiws because "everyone else are haters" so they try to seperate their opinions from reviewers. It happens to a lot of people. That's how I was when I saw the reviews for Sonic Hereos, I thought people didn't know just exactly how good the game was so they graded it low....A few weeks later I was like this is boring.

People aren't going to say the game they have sucks when they paid 40 bucks for it. They can get blinded by a lot of things, like being fond of the characters.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Last edited by vuigun; Mar 18, 2006 at 03:08 PM. Reason: Automerged double post.
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