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View Poll Results: Do you like Crossovers?
Yes, can't wait for more 12 54.55%
I don't hate them, but they'e not special either 8 36.36%
Not really, they're kinda lame 2 9.09%
Voters: 22. You may not vote on this poll

[General Discussion] Do you like Crossdressing?
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DarkMageOzzie
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Old Aug 23, 2008, 09:43 AM #1 of 29
Do you like Crossdressing?

Crossovers are starting to become abit of a trend as of late. Sure they started years ago with games like Marvel vs Capcom but they seem more frequent as of late. Even if we don't see all of them released in the states. For awhile now Japan has had the Jump Superstars series and more recently they had Namco x Capcom. Soon to be released there is Cross Edge(Course we know that probably won't make it here) and Mortal Kombat vs DC.

We've had a crossover between Dynasty Warriors and Samurai Warriors, yes I know they're made by the same company but it did so well a sequel is on the way. We can now also lump Soul Calibur IV in with the crossover crowd thanks to the Star Wars characters. I ask though, is it becoming too much? Or is it just freaking awesome thinking of the possibility of future crossovers?

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Old Aug 23, 2008, 10:13 AM #2 of 29
It depends on the game, really. Smash Brothers is beautifully implemented with fan service and is a great game to boot, but the Marvel vs Capcom games...they're fun, but you could take the Marvel characters out of 2 and still have a great game with just the Capcom characters (and it would still be a cross-over of sorts, with the Capcom franchises). I actually liked how they did MvC 1 (Marvel teams up with Capcom to fight Onslaught). Still waiting for Sammy vs Capcom to come about one of these days.

So I'm fine with it pretty much.

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Old Aug 23, 2008, 02:48 PM Local time: Aug 23, 2008, 01:48 PM 2 #3 of 29
I voted yes not because I particularly like the cross-overs being done now, but in theory I love the idea of being able to mix & match. For example, here are some variations I think might be enjoyable that are either a combination of settings, characters, developers, etc.:

-Gordon Freeman as the main character in Fallout 3
-Duke Nukem as the main character in a Resident Evil game, with all his weapons crossing over and pig-cop zombies
-Might and Magic 10 running on the Oblivion engine, complete with the circus, flying spell, and up to 50 enemies on-screen with map-obliterating end-spells (let's see those castle flatfoots deal with Armageddon!)
-Jak & Daxter in a 3d Mario game
-A cross between Blood, Doom, and Silent Hill (you figure out a typical non-sequiter stupid puzzle to open the door only to find a 3-story high cacodaemon, but you turn it to dust with your voodoo doll!)
-Shadow Hearts 4 + Persona 4 = Shadow Persona.
-Rhythm game + Zombie game = must pummel zombies rhythmically to destroy them! Beats Typing of the Dead!

I could probably think of more, but I think you get the general idea. I basically have no interest in seeing Star Wars characters in a Soul Caliber game or things of that nature.

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Old Aug 23, 2008, 03:59 PM #4 of 29
As long as they're done well, there are not enough crossovers in this world.

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Old Aug 23, 2008, 04:17 PM Local time: Aug 23, 2008, 02:17 PM #5 of 29
Its so RARELY done, but for crossovers I like it when they do it subtly. Instead of making it the Center principal attraction of the new game, make it something not even really marketed, like it just sort of shows up part-way through the game. An example of this done in a game would be Cloud from Final Fantasy Tactics. He appears along with the Flower girl. Where does he come from? In FFVII he fell into the lifestream. Lifestream contained a wormhole and he ended up temporarily in Ivalice. He eventually made his way back, but the process his memories of the new world he visited were wiped and at the same time, his mind-fucked-up-quotient tripled to the point where he was sitting in a wheelchair making random remarks of no sense, or of marketing points "zeno... gias...."

So, if we do have a cross-over between the different realities, instead of it being all "Oh hey, its X meets Y!", lets have them have conflict with one another: Gordon Freeman gets teleported to the Liandri Corporation's tournament. Others assume that his shotgun, gravity gun and crowbar along with his HEV suit are just personal choices and that he gets pushed into competition in the Unreal Tournament. Well, he's not here to play games, he's trying to stop an alien invasion on earth. So he breaks all the rules, goes to the head of the Tournament Organizers and makes them teleport him back to his home dimension.

The problem with crossovers and I made a point when writing the above example is that cross-overs rarely work well and more often the not they either have to not count in the continuity of either series (Such as Marvel Vs. [Insert Company here] ) or they turn into bad fanfiction.

Subtlety is the one logical way we can have both in-universe cross-overs while avoiding the more obvious and painful examples of mary-sueisms and general fanwankery in the meeting of important characters and making it enjoyable for the player. Of course, I could be wrong, someone out there might just have a good idea for a cross-over, but so far I haven't seen a good example of one. No the Final Fantasy example I listed above isn't that good of one either because there are too many fucking plot holes for one to consider.

I'll like Crossovers when they at least TRY to make sense, and serve some purpose higher to the story then "Let's have these guys meet those people! Hilarity will ensue!".

I was speaking idiomatically.
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Old Aug 23, 2008, 04:26 PM Local time: Aug 23, 2008, 04:26 PM #6 of 29
I was going to post in this thread, but then Dark Nation did it for me.

Suffice to say that I have still yet to see a video game crossover that actually enhanced the stories of either franchise. They are all either mindless fun (Smash Brothers, yes the Subspace Emissary is fun but it still doesn't actually fit,) completely outside of the universe (Kingdom Hearts, unless ninja Mickey shows up to fight Sephiroth on the next Mouse Clubhouse,) or pointless cameos (Final Fantasy Tactics, even moreso the PSP port. Oh hey there Balthier who has somehow lived for over a thousand years.)

Until I actually see a decent crossover that fits into the storylines without ruining it, it will remain in the realm of sheer fan service.

Also gotta add for speculative that all of those ideas sound absolutely horrendous from a gameplay perspective.

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Old Aug 23, 2008, 04:35 PM Local time: Aug 23, 2008, 03:35 PM #7 of 29
Also gotta add for speculative that all of those ideas sound absolutely horrendous from a gameplay perspective.
I won't argue with ya. For me, the notion of a crossover is exactly the opposite of the above posts. It should do something that makes no sense just for the heck of it. Hence, I see cross-overs like enabling cheats & mods on a PC game. Does break the standard gameplay, but it's nice to change things up for a bit. Otherwise, I would just keep playing the same games with the same characters and settings in them per their worlds. A cross-over by definition for me breaks continuity, so that throws suspended disbelief out the window for me.

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Old Aug 23, 2008, 06:27 PM Local time: Aug 23, 2008, 04:27 PM #8 of 29
I see two types of crossovers for video games. One is where it's done for fun for the sake of the game (Marvel Versus Capcom 2) and the other where it's done for fanservice. Some you folks might need to play more games because "Subtlety" is done so often that occasionally you seem to not see it.

Thunder Force V isn't exactly the greatest game (since it's the FREE RANGE show) but it crosses over several properties owned by Tecnosoft at the time. For instance, the stage 4 boss was lifted straight from Hyper Duel. Good shit. Shin Megami Tensei is able to cross over any time it wants because of Shin Megami Tensei 3/Nocturne, so people who played Digital Devil Saga 1 and 2 were witness to some clever in-game crossover.

Irem basically connected its entire body of games through R-Type Final, so it was really interesting looking at stuff like the ship from X-Multiply showing up, Matt Gables from Undercover Cops being listed in an "enemy combatant" list, and having Mr. Heli show up for the sake of being in the game. Probably a great example of a story/game crossover since there was meaning at every single level.

At the end, story isn't so much the issue to me such as the gameplay. Which is why Namco x Capcom was balls and even though they tried to work in the story, I don't give a crap about it.

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Old Aug 24, 2008, 12:46 AM Local time: Aug 24, 2008, 03:46 PM 1 #9 of 29
I don't like John Edward, but I did shit my pants when I played Rainbow Islands and realised one of the bosses was from Arkanoid. Then I smeared it all over the arcade cabinet so nobody else could beat my high score.

That was the best day of anyones life.

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Old Aug 24, 2008, 04:52 AM Local time: Aug 24, 2008, 09:52 AM #10 of 29
At the end, story isn't so much the issue to me such as the gameplay. Which is why Namco x Capcom was balls and even though they tried to work in the story, I don't give a crap about it.
It always amuses me the way they try to come out with some story that justifies those sort of fan-service crossovers. I've seen people talking to the Mortal Kombat Vs DC Universe devs and they say how they've come up with a story that explains why these two sets of characters are fighting. I'd have much more respect anyone making a fan-service crossover if they didn't bother trying to explain it, or just made a very self-mocking story that knowingly admitted "Hey we did this because we figured it'd make you buy the game, and it's fucking cool".

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Last edited by OmagnusPrime; Aug 26, 2008 at 10:28 AM. Reason: Emphasis for clarification
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Old Aug 24, 2008, 05:48 AM Local time: Aug 24, 2008, 09:48 PM #11 of 29
i like crossovers,, like in knigdom hearts cos it has cloud and squall (oops i mean leon lol!!) and i think seprot is in ther too. those disney things ruinn the whole game imo, i wish they remved them.

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Well, I always get a little smirk on my face when I see Mario in a videogame. I can't name specific games in which he's made a cameo role, but there are plenty out there. One specific crossover which I enjoyed immensely was in a MegaMan Battle Network game. There I was, traversing the intarwebs, busting viruses with much apathy, when who appears to brighten up my day but BOKTAI (taiyooo~). That little touch really made my day.

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Old Aug 24, 2008, 07:26 AM #12 of 29
Hmm... I'm thinking of crossovers as more significant than just cameos and references. The most obvious choice for a crossover is a fighting game (much like Marvel vs. Capcom and such) or Beat 'em ups (Battletoads & Double Dragon). The other one I've seen much of are RPGs along the lines of Chaos Wars and X-Edge whenever the latter comes out. As for whether or not I like those, that depends on if I played the source material or not or if the game is good. Only one has to be good, and if they're both good, then all the better for me. The game should be crafted around the fact that there are characters from other universes present, and not just dropping them haphazardly into an existing one.

Dropping Final Fantasy characters into Kingdom Hearts is not a crossover (since the universe is still heavily Disney. If they visited some Final Fantasy landmarks, then it would. Haven't played the second one yet, so I'm not sure if that ever happens.) Cloud appearing in Final Fantasy Tactics would also not be considered a crossover (along with Luso and Balthier if you're playing War of the Lions), since you're still in the original Ivalice and not some weird hybrid of the three.

From my perspective, the game has to be made to accommodate all the characters, either by mixing in a bit of everything from their source games, or by crafting an entirely new world to throw them in.

That being said, I enjoy crossovers. They're interesting to play (even moreso if you know the sources). Even if they aren't very well done gameplay-wise, knowing the sources will get you some amount of satisfaction.

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Old Aug 26, 2008, 01:23 AM #13 of 29
It depends on the game, really. Smash Brothers is beautifully implemented with fan service and is a great game to boot, but the Marvel vs Capcom games...they're fun, but you could take the Marvel characters out of 2 and still have a great game with just the Capcom characters (and it would still be a cross-over of sorts, with the Capcom franchises). I actually liked how they did MvC 1 (Marvel teams up with Capcom to fight Onslaught). Still waiting for Sammy vs Capcom to come about one of these days.

So I'm fine with it pretty much.
I wish I could have found a copy of MvC2 before it got sold out and rare. $60+ for a used is kinda ridiculous and I guess I'm waiting to see if I can find one cheap.

With that said, it all depends on how the crossover is and what game. MvC was pretty cool as was X-Men vs Street Fighter (virtually the same game, I guess.) Kingdom Hearts is another favorite of mine too, even though I was on the bandwagon early before with disgust of it being Disney. (Still waiting for that Robin Hood level to be added to a KH game) DC vs MK looks really interesting and that's going to be one of those "wait and see"s for me (chances are I'll pick it up, but still)

Personally I wish more would get released that were Japan only releases like Namco X Capcom. That intrigued me from what I saw that one E3. Or maybe Square can make another cross-over, this time of Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest in a standard RPG setting.

I guess it matters on what crossovers would work and what make no sense at all. Would a traditional RPG work from Square mixing in characters from Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, Chrono Trigger? Would a survival horror crossover work for Dino Crisis and Resident Evil? How about Solid Snake having to be sent to Silent Hill? It's all whether the right setting and combination happens.

I was speaking idiomatically.

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Old Aug 26, 2008, 05:14 AM Local time: Aug 26, 2008, 10:14 AM #14 of 29
I wish I could have found a copy of MvC2 before it got sold out and rare.
I'm pretty sure I've got a copy of that on the Dreamcast. One of the handful of games I bought for the system (since Sega sent me a load of them free), and pretty entertaining if memory serves.

Personally I wish more would get released that were Japan only releases like Namco X Capcom.
Hopefully if stuff like this arrives on the PS3, PSP and DS, since they're region free it will at least be easy to import stuff. Admittedly not all that helpful unless there's an English language option, or it's easy enough to figure without knowing Japanese, but it opens up the option at least.

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Old Aug 26, 2008, 08:48 AM #15 of 29
I look forward to the day some game comes out that includes spoken audio, original language translated text, and localized text in Japanese, Korean, Chinese, English, French, German, Spanish, Russian, and any other language they want to throw in be it Hindi or Arabic with mouth mappings for every language (or one very good lip-syncing program) so you don't get the slightest case of the Godzilla effect, and all this together on one final region free disc that by default sets the game's language settings to your console's language settings which can be adjusted at any time during gameplay.

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Old Aug 26, 2008, 09:12 AM Local time: Aug 26, 2008, 02:12 PM #16 of 29
I'd love to see that day too Acer, but it's not going to be for a while yet, I bet.

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Old Aug 26, 2008, 09:34 AM Local time: Aug 26, 2008, 07:34 AM #17 of 29
It always amuses me the way they try to come out with some story that justifies those sort of fan-service crossovers. I've seen people talking to the Mortal Kombat Vs DC Universe devs and they say how they've come up with a story that explains why these two sets of characters are fighting. Well, let's ignore the fact that most fighting game stories are retarded anyway, but no, don't. I'd have much more respect if they didn't bother trying to explain it, or just made a very self-mocking story that knowingly admitted "Hey we did this because we figured it'd make you buy the game".
That opinion is certainly upsetting. Street Fighter has a great plot, as does Virtua Fighter... they just don't get placed in game. But that framework when you look at it is impressive, linking an entire body of work together. Final Fight, Street Fighter, all the way up to Captain Commando even. Not Rival Schools though, apparently.

Anyway.

There's a reason for that. It's hard to tell a story about people getting together to just FIGHT without it becoming convoluted bullshit, like what Guilty Gear and Soul Calibur ended up being. Honestly, Mortal Kombat? It has a story pedigree of a comic book writer, and his plotting is fine. In game? It's just not represented, that's not why people were picking up the product. Which is why the idea of movies and comics excite most of the rabid MK fanbase... which is why the crossover isn't so much out of line as it is out of the blue.

But if all you expect it to be is stupid and all it should be is one thing, then why allow any game to attempt to be something different? Those stipulations you place on certain genres and titles because of a history of perception are hypocritical when you talk about how progressive you want video games to be.

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Last edited by Rotorblade; Aug 26, 2008 at 09:39 AM.
Old Aug 26, 2008, 09:38 AM #18 of 29
Gonna agree with Rotor. Although I wouldn't say no to a silly game like OP proposed I certainly wouldn't want them all to be like that. Might as well just play Mugen instead. *shudder*

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Old Aug 26, 2008, 09:50 AM Local time: Aug 26, 2008, 02:50 PM #19 of 29
Those stipulations you place on certain genres and titles because of a history of perception are hypocritical when you talk about how progressive and growing you want video games to be.
Oh please, at what point did I suggest the crossover fan-service aspect had anything to do with the title or the genre?

I apologise for saying all fighter storylines are 'retarded', I don't wish to suggest that they aren't enjoyable, a lot of them are. However, when boiled down to it I can't think of a single fighter that has a storyline that isn't silly in some way. I love the stories of Street Fighter and the original Soul Caliburs (things now do seem just a touch more convoluted than necessary), but they are daft.

My point about crossovers that are more out of fan-service is that they don't really need to justify a 'why', they're great because they exist, I find the horrible attempts to explain why two (or more) worlds have come together often betrays the stories of the originals. The Star Wars characters in SCIV are a great example of that. The game tries to explain why they're there, but it's idiotic, and I don't care. They're there because it's fucking Darth Vader and Yoda, and it's cool. Please don't try to explain to me why Yoda is here. Perhaps I'm not explaining myself very well, but I don't mean to dismiss the stories in fighting games (or any other genre), just lame attempts at explanation in crossovers.

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Old Aug 26, 2008, 09:53 AM Local time: Aug 26, 2008, 07:53 AM #20 of 29
Oh please, at what point did I suggest the crossover fan-service aspect had anything to do with the title or the genre?
Well, let's ignore the fact that most fighting game stories are retarded anyway, but no, don't. I'd have much more respect if they didn't bother trying to explain it, or just made a very self-mocking story that knowingly admitted "Hey we did this because we figured it'd make you buy the game".
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Old Aug 26, 2008, 10:00 AM Local time: Aug 26, 2008, 03:00 PM #21 of 29
Well a) taking it out of context is doing a bang-up job of misrepresenting my words, and b) I explained the 'retarded' comment above, I like fighter stories, they're just a little daft. The whole rest of that quoted comment is to do with fan-service corssovers.

Let me try quoting the whole thing and chopping out the irrelevant bit you're getting hung up on:
Quote:
It always amuses me the way they try to come out with some story that justifies those sort of fan-service crossovers. I've seen people talking to the Mortal Kombat Vs DC Universe devs and they say how they've come up with a story that explains why these two sets of characters are fighting. I'd have much more respect if they didn't bother trying to explain it, or just made a very self-mocking story that knowingly admitted "Hey we did this because we figured it'd make you buy the game".


I was speaking idiomatically.
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Old Aug 26, 2008, 10:11 AM Local time: Aug 26, 2008, 08:11 AM #22 of 29
Well a) taking it out of context is doing a bang-up job of misrepresenting my words, and b) I explained the 'retarded' comment above, I like fighter stories, they're just a little daft. The whole rest of that quoted comment is to do with fan-service corssovers.

Let me try quoting the whole thing and chopping out the irrelevant bit you're getting hung up on:
It always amuses me the way they try to come out with some story that justifies those sort of fan-service crossovers. I've seen people talking to the Mortal Kombat Vs DC Universe devs and they say how they've come up with a story that explains why these two sets of characters are fighting. Well, let's ignore the fact that most fighting game stories are retarded anyway, but no, don't. I'd have much more respect if they didn't bother trying to explain it, or just made a very self-mocking story that knowingly admitted "Hey we did this because we figured it'd make you buy the game".
Nothing after that bold and underlined sentence is alleviated by what you're saying, Prime. No, I get what you MEANT, but I'm talking about what you fucking said. I'd appreciate it if you didn't try to spin it like I'm retarded for saying what I did in response to what you had to RATIONALIZE TO ME in a completely new post after the fact. What I "cut out" was insubstantial. What you said and what you meant are 2 different things, I'd appreciate a little less bullshit in that regard, it's not like I was calling you retarded or something.

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Old Aug 26, 2008, 10:18 AM Local time: Aug 26, 2008, 03:18 PM #23 of 29
OK, how many times precisely am I going to have to explain and apologise for poorly wording myself. I've said above that I didn't mean what you have clearly (and mistakenly) read into my words, but here you are quoting it again and shoving it down my throat. Want to be a bigger arsehole over this?

Once again. I apologise, I was criticising fan-service crossovers only. Nothing to do with genre or title. If that wasn't clear, I apologise for not fulling reviewing my words in the first place, because no one in the history of the Internet has ever posted something quickly that didn't come across as 100% meant.

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Old Aug 26, 2008, 10:23 AM Local time: Aug 26, 2008, 08:23 AM #24 of 29
Oh please, at what point did I suggest the crossover fan-service aspect had anything to do with the title or the genre?
I have pointed where you did this out already, I take offense with you thinking I didn't see you say this very thing. It is a paragraph, the dead outline in bold. You have clarified your stance on this, so I obviously get what you meant now, but the "Oh please" here is something I'm taking offense with now. Not that you actually think what I had typed out and yadda yadda. Again, what you said and what you meant are two different things, that's why I said you did "suggest it", because you did.

You've corrected yourself, I'm not charging you with original sin, you just stepped on my fucking toes (so to speak) with that "oh please" jab.

Additional Spam:
Those stipulations you place on certain genres and titles because of a history of perception are hypocritical when you talk about how progressive you want video games to be.
Prime is not a hypocrite everyone, I projected my interpretations of conversations that took place elsewhere and what I perceived them to make Prime's thoughts and opinions right here and I am wrong for doing so. Apologies.

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Last edited by Rotorblade; Aug 26, 2008 at 10:59 AM. Reason: This member got a little too post happy.
Old Aug 26, 2008, 11:42 AM #25 of 29
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