iPod or Zen?

Well regarding my experience with Zentouch and an Ipod. I say I prefer the 40 gb Zen due to the superior battery life and quality. However, I still think that the Zen is crap as well. Maybe mine is old to which it starts having problem but it is still a deterrence nontheless (a year old). Has some stupid problems like the button commands changing all the time (i.e when I press the back button it sometimes thinks I am pressing the menu or...at worst...the RANDOM button). Sometimes my zen also freezes when I try to turn it off which is really annoying trying to find little pointy objects to press the restart button. Also there was a point (glad it doesn't do this anymore...) when the scroller didn't work. But yes I still enjoy my Zen Touch; how else would I be able to carry around 40gb of Eurobeat.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

I decided to go with the ipod for one key reason: The 30GB Zen was not available locally and I made sure to buy a 3-year extended warranty, since I've heard how unreliable Ipods can be. As is, I'd had zero problems with it and I wish I would've gone the extra $100 for the 60GB one. Worst thing I can say about it is the bass kind of sucks, but an earphone upgrade to something in the $99 range made a world of difference. Without taking anything away from Zen and based solely on my own experience, I would recommend the iPod.

Edit: Also, AAC format is great. I can't tell the difference at between AAC at 128 kbps and mp3's at even 320. Definitely a great space saver.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Rock

For me, iTunes is actually the biggest reason to stay away from iPods. As others have already mentioned, if you're used to transfer files on your computer via drag & drop or copy & paste and organize them in folders, the restrictive database management of iTunes will prove very bulky.

Hahahaha what? I read this as you complaining that iTunes does stuff for you. You want to indiviually move and keep your music organised? Why? Using your computer shouldn't be a chore! You're holding back progress of the entire software programming industry!

I like how iTunes uses drag and drop anyway. This is going to be shocking but usually when I want to fill my measly little 1GB iPod Shuffle with songs I drag from from the Library into the iPod Shuffle icon, all within iTunes.

Originally Posted by Rock

I know there are solutions to bypass iTunes and make an iPod "mass storage"-compatible, but these tools have to be installed on every computer you intend to use your iPod and music collection with. However, I'd prefer to just plug my MP3 player into the USB port of a computer and have it detect the thing automatically (all modern operating systems, including Linux and MaxOS support USB mass storage). That way, you can use the thing to store all sorts of files easily. From my knowledge, this is just not possible with an iPod by default.

Yes this tricky solution is ticking the fucking box.

When I want to print stuff out at uni, I just (wait for it) drag and drop them onto my unmodified iPod Shuffle and then, get this, plug it into any old windows box at uni and order it to print.

Originally Posted by Storm Petrel

Not only that, but I never liked the looks of iPods, I think Creative players look way more interesting than the iPod, it just looks like a boring piece of brick.

Could we be a little less pretentious for a moment?

Originally Posted by Storm Petrel

And not only does the Zen have a much longer battery life, remember the audio quality, it's always going to superior to that of the iPods.

Doesn't look like it.

Originally Posted by Storm Petrel

Creative players have SNR of at least 96dB SNR or higher, for iPods, looks like Apple is too ashamed to list the SNR, if it's equally good, why don't they list it? Also, I don't remember an iPod as a equalizer built in, most Zen players have an built-in equalizer.

What are we even talking about audio quality here? Remind me again, we are talking about listening to compressed digital audio, outside with shitty little headphones right?
I can't even tell the difference between a 128kbps AAC file or a vinyl record. A mate of mine who's pretty much the biggest music buff I know listens to everything as 80kbps mp3.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by RABicle

You want to indiviually move and keep your music
organised? Why?

Because I have a system. I have been using that system for nearly a decade. It works, and I like it, and I want to use the same system with my DAP. Everything is organized in folders just the way I like it, and I'd like to have the same organization on the go, thank you. I want to be in control, and not at the mercy of somebody else's system.

Quote:

What are we even talking about audio quality here? Remind me again, we are talking about listening to compressed digital audio, outside with shitty little headphones right?

Nope. We're talking about listening to un or barely compressed audio using $300 noise-isolating in-ear monitors. I don't know what kind of listening you do, if you can even really call it listening.

Quote:

I can't even tell the difference between a 128kbps AAC file or a vinyl record. A mate of mine who's pretty much the biggest music buff I know listens to everything as 80kbps mp3.

I bet he can't tell the difference because listening to music with the stock iPod earbuds all the time damaged his hearing beyond repair.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

YOU BET THAT WITH YOUR MONEY DO YOU? Last time I was at his place I think he used winamp or something and doesn't have an MP3 player.

Quote:

Nope. We're talking about listening to un or barely compressed audio using $300 noise-isolating in-ear monitors. I don't know what kind of listening you do, if you can even really call it listening.

Rich. Pretentious. Maggot. I bet WITH MONEY that your taste in music is horrible and your headphones, that cost more than 4 weeks of my welfare benefit, don't make it any more bareable.

FELIPE NO

My taste in music is supreme, ( ) with many different and varied genres represented on my iPod, but this thread isn't for discussing musical tastes.

Oh, and I'm not rich.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

I think we should stick to the topic, for one thing, there are plenty of people out there who are capable of hearing different sound qualities in different portable players, therefore these people have a right to critisize players for not up to their personal standards. Different earphones also contribute to the sound quality, and Ipod's earphones are not the best out there. And some people listen their music unconpressed or barely, like me I like to find mp3s in 320 biterate if possible, or at least higer than 128.

And knowing these forums, I bet alot of people here play around with audio mixing or music remixes and recordings, and a good ear is needed to tell the different between audio quality in either bit rate or hardware is a CRUCIAL thing in music or audio mixing. And just cause your friend is a music buff, doesn't mean hes able to tell the difference between different SOUND qualities, he simply just likes listening to music. Some of us here, actually can tell the difference, not everyone can however. And PC speakers are not the best speakers in the world either. A song at 80 kbps tends to be alot more distorted and lower quality in sound compare to higher bit rate. Not as bad as telephone quality, but its getting there.

And theres no need to insult his musical taste, when theres no mention of it in this topic and hardly contributes to your argument.

In the end, Ipod isn't for everyone, and people have a right to express their negative opinions on it. Like me, my Ipod's battery life decreased horribly to the point that is now a paperweight in my home in Hong Kong. It also doesn't turn off well and at times turns on despite the hold button is on. I didn't even bother using it as a external hard disk, it dies too quickly.

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Originally Posted by Kairi Li

I think we should stick to the topic

This shit is hilarious.

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Tsk, tsk, remember the new GFF Mission Statement...

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Are we playing intarnets yet?

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

I have a Zen Micro and it's served me pretty well.

It's small, snazzy-lookin', and really easy to load songs on to. You don't hafta convert 'em or anything; you just open the program and drop 'em in the box. It's slightly cheaper, too, I think.

Unfortunately, somethin's screwy and I haven't been able to load songs on it for a while. Possibly the problem is with my computer; I'm just too lazy to sit down and have a good look at it. My computer refuses to burn cds now, too........

I was speaking idiomatically.

R1CH: I made this exact thread in a different message board a month ago. My final decision: Zen Vision:M.

Reasons:
1. More crisp screen
2. Higher decibels
3. Sound recorder (spying rules)
4. FM radio
5. Great video playback and conversion program (needed if file doesnt match with player well)
6. Ability to, while on "RANDOM PLAY ALL" mode, click two times to load the folder that the song that's playing is in (unlike ipod).
7. Battery Power Better

DOWNSIDE - Had to buy the A/V cord online because most stores seem to only care about ipod accessories.

DOESN'T MATTER (To me) - No itunes-like service. I steal my music. I don't need a service.

So how is it workin for ya so far?

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Quote:

6. Ability to, while on "RANDOM PLAY ALL" mode, click two times to load the folder that the song that's playing is in (unlike ipod).

How is this useful?

FELIPE NO

Personally, I can't tell the difference between a 320 kbps track and an 80kbps one and that's when playing it through £500 worth of car stereo. I guess my hearing has been destroyed by listening to music the way it should be heard, live and at huge volume.

I have a little iPod shuffle and it's awesome. I load up iTunes, click the playlist I want, hit the synch button and then have seven hours worth of music to listen to. Total time from old music to new music, about a minute. The battery lasts longer than the amount of music that's on there and the number of times I'm away from a USB port for more than 8 hours of constant music listening are fucking rare.

I'm sure if I was some kind of techy obsessive I might be bothered about sound quality and using Explorer to drag little folders about and shit like that but I ain't. I'm just someone who occasionally takes public transport and wanted to listen to music while I did it and the iPod suits me fine.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Can you just drag and drop your music files onto the iPod shuffle in Windows to listen to them or does it require iTunes? I was thinking about getting one of those a while ago. <3 random simple players.

How ya doing, buddy?

In the end, its a personal decison to which brand you wanna get. Some people love Ipod for these reasons, some people choose another over other reasons. Most people have posted the good parts and bad parts of alot of brands, its up the person to make the final decision,does he want a Ipod cause most have it and it can be used with Itunes? Or does he want a player that costs less and has better sound quality?

Well I probably won'y buy anymore Ipods since my last one is now a white brick.

Its up to the individual, what we should do its display our opinions and facts of the hardware and respect each other's opinions as well.

And if you want to place songs in your Ipod, you need Itunes. Ipod doens't work without Itunes.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Thank you Kairi, glad to see someone who is reasonable. And RABicle, a lot people can hear differences between different audio quality, like Kairi, I can't stand 128kbps, all my MP3s are at least 256kbp and for complex music I put them at 320kbps. And your comment against Piccolo about his/her music taste is the biggest crap I have ever heard. So you are saying people with good music taste can't spend money on things they want? Bullshit.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

The last half of this thread looks more like a trolling fest than one about a real discussion about the G5 iPod and the Zen Vision:M. I'll add my two cents.

The iPod and the Vision:M are basically equivalent in features. Both support the 5-star rating system and smart playlists, though iTunes/iPod integration of smart playlists/synchronization is infinitely superior than Creative's integration with WMP10/11 (though 11 is much better than 10, in my experience). The Vision:M also supports Unicode-formatted tags, which means support for Asian characters, symbols, and the like, which the iPod has supported since at least 4G and which the Zen Touch had none.

Both support videos: the iPod only supports H.264, which is the best video codec out there right now, but has a RATED battery life of 2 hours at video (which means it's really less than half that). The Vision:M supports DivX4/5 (and DivX6, in my experience) and XviD without Global Motion Compensation enabled, MPEG-1, MPEG-2, and Windows Media Video (though I've had the majority of my WMV's rejected by Creative's software for being incompatible, and had one "compatible" WMV at 320x180 resolution hang my Zen upon playback). The Vision:M also has a rated battery life at video at 4 hours, but most users have been able to coax it to play back 5 hours with ~500kbps DivX video. If you end up outputting your video to a TV, the Vision:M supports an outputted resolution of 640x480, infinitely superior in quality to the iPod's 320x240. Both device's battery life for audio is rated at 14 hours, though I've read numerous reviews stating that the Vision:M's battery doesn't reach 14 hours due to MP3 bitrate above 128 (and as usual, many iPod users report batteries which don't quite reach 8 hours).

Audio format support: iPod supports MP3, WAV, AIF, AAC. Vision:M supports MP3, WAV, WMA. Sound familiar? If you mod your iPod, it should also be able to play OGG and FLAC, but both would drain the battery beyond belief. If for some reason you actually purchase music online (lawl. what are you doing on this forum then?), the iPod is limited to iTunes, whereas the Vision:M can take anything from any store OTHER than iTunes (and RealPlayer?). However, in my opinion, AAC is infinitely superior to WMA as a codec. The Vision:M has an odd feature where its photos have a clear need of ANTI-ALIASING. But if you zoom in with your photos, it no longer becomes as big a deal. Both devices support use as a removable storage disk, but the iPod (unmodded) does not support true drag and drop like the Vision:M does. A bonus for the Vision:M is an included mic and FM tuner, but the iPod has more accessories which more than cover the Vision:M's extra features.

In the end, it really comes down to personal choice. For me, my horrible experience with the 4G iPod's battery life pushed me to the Vision:M without a second's glance back. However, the iPod is a nice device.. it's just that the Vision:M really does offer more to the user.

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Well done on picking that one up Snow Patrol, never mind that it was intentionally ridiculous, mocking the way he drew conclusions based off nothing regarding my friend. I don't even know what music he listens to.

You've also missed the point regarding sound quality. My argument is taht player X having a higher SNR (whatever that is) than player Y is pointless becuase we're all listening to music that has been digitised, compressed, played through a consumer electronic device with shoddy ear bud speakers in a noisy environment like a bus. Sound quality is meaningless. Generally I listen to a lot of punk and alt. rock, the music is often intenionally distorted, or the band couldn't afford a producer to polish it up for them anyway, what's the point of anything more than AAC for something like this? Sure sometimes I can pick up a bit of distortion on a Moby track or something yet somehow I get over it.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Quote:

My argument is taht player X having a higher SNR (whatever that is) than player Y is pointless becuase we're all listening to music that has been digitised, compressed, played through a consumer electronic device with shoddy ear bud speakers in a noisy environment like a bus. Sound quality is meaningless.

But this argument is blatantly false, because this isn't true for everyone. Some of us go to the trouble of using lossless codecs for our music, and we even buy special devices like line out cables (to bypass most of the internal circuitry of the player) and headphone amplifiers (to drive high-impedence headphones) and high-end in-ear headphones. (For isolation and quality sound reproduction.) Some of these headphones can block as much as 40dB of outside noise. Perfect for listening on a bus. In fact, I used them for that very purpose when I went to Panama City with my church. We love music and want to have the best portable music listening experience possible.

By the way, SNR means "Signal-to-Noise Ratio", and it refers to the ratio of signal (your music) to the background noise generated by the device itself. Every electronic device, by its very nature, generates a certain amount of intrinsic noise. This is called its noise floor. The goal is to get the noise floor as low as possible, and the signal as high as possible, without clipping it.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

neothe0ne left out a couple of features that the Zen Vision:M has over the iPod in what was otherwise a great breakdown of the pros and cons between the two players.

First is that the Vision:M has a FM radio, which is nice if you want to hear the news, check the weather, or add a little variety to your music. In addition to that, the Vision:M has voice recording. I've personally never really found this feature useful in my Samsung YP-C1Z, but it's there for those of you that want to take advantage of it. Finally, the Vision:M also seems to allow you to carry around your Outlook stuff so you can take a look at it whenever you want (although this feature won't be of much use to people who don't use outlook, like me).

I would also like to add in some input to the whole soundquality thing. MP3 players are first and foremost PORTABLE media players. No one should expect amazing sound quality out of them, and I highly doubt its possible to tell the difference between a 128 kbps MP3 and lossless on ANY portable media player (and to anyone that says they can tell the difference using stock earbuds, I will bet that they can't back that up with a proper ABX test).

FELIPE NO

First of all, if you don't even know what SNR is, RABicle, then you should go do your research before coming here and saying things like you know what you are talking about, because I have done my share of the research, I spent 2 weeks researching before purchasing my Zen Touch.

And to neothone, Zen Touch DOES HAVE Unicode Tag support, my Zen Touch is the living proof, I have songs that are in Manderin Chinese, German, French etc and they all get displayed properly on the Zen Touch.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by RABicle

How is this useful?

In the random play all mode, every song of my 10,000 songs is mixed and songs play randomly. There is no way to hit the "back" button to goto the folder of the song that's playing. The back button simply goes back to the most recent menu or folder you were in. But clicking the middle button once will take the current playing song to the 5 star rating system and hitting it once more will automatically load the folder that the song is in so I can browse and click some other cool song from that album.

The other way to do it is hit back and goto "ALBUMS" and i find (on my own) the album of the song that's playing. I dislike doing that while driving my car.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by RABicle

Hahahaha what? I read this as you complaining that iTunes does stuff for you. You want to indiviually move and keep your music organised? Why? Using your computer shouldn't be a chore! You're holding back progress of the entire software programming industry!

You don't seem to grasp the concept that users have different preferences of organizing their music. The iPod/iTunes concept just so happens to drastically interfere with mine and that's why I will never recommend an iPod to people who prefer to have their music organized in folders like I do.

How ya doing, buddy?

I'm with Rock on this one, I keep all albums in their individual folders and just drag and drop them into my Zen Touch.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.