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Guide to Proper Lossless Rips
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YoMan
Wild Boys


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Old Jul 8, 2006, 08:51 PM Local time: Jul 9, 2006, 02:51 AM #51 of 105
Well, the only thing i have done to the file is move it from one HDD to another. From SATA to PATA.

Now i have read somewhere else that this sort of thing could be hardware related, something like bad transfer between HDD's, something wrong with the mobo, bad drivers, overclocking, bad sectors on HDD's etc etc, but i am really not sure.

When it comes to .rar files, i ocasionally have CRC errors. No, wait, scratch that. Recently, a lot of CRC errors. Maybe there is a connection. Im not really good with these sorts of things.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.
Kaiten
Everything new is old again


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Old Jul 8, 2006, 09:58 PM Local time: Jul 8, 2006, 07:58 PM #52 of 105
There has to be, if you get frequent CRC errors and the like, somewhere down the line data corruption is occuring. I'd suggest making some RARs and transferring them to see if a faulty connection (or HDD) is the problem. Trust me, from what I've heard so far, corrupted FLAC files is the least of your worries. Try to figure out if it's the PATA or SATA HDD (or the connection between the two), then you can find out what to do next.

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YoMan
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Old Jul 9, 2006, 01:37 PM Local time: Jul 9, 2006, 07:37 PM #53 of 105
Well i dont know what to make of this. I tried compressing an album that was in wav and cuting/pasting it from HDD to HDD to check if some CRC error poped up. There were no errors.

Then i compressed an album that was in flac, did the same thing, cuting/pasting it from HDD to HDD. The first transfer got me a CRC error right away.

I don't know what to do next, maybe checking the HDD's with some scanning program? What are some good HDD scanning programs?

Quote:
Trust me, from what I've heard so far, corrupted FLAC files is the least of your worries.
Please elaborate. Is it that bad?

I was speaking idiomatically.
Kaiten
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Old Jul 9, 2006, 05:24 PM Local time: Jul 9, 2006, 03:24 PM #54 of 105
Originally Posted by YoMan
Well i dont know what to make of this. I tried compressing an album that was in wav and cuting/pasting it from HDD to HDD to check if some CRC error poped up. There were no errors.

Then i compressed an album that was in flac, did the same thing, cuting/pasting it from HDD to HDD. The first transfer got me a CRC error right away.

I don't know what to do next, maybe checking the HDD's with some scanning program? What are some good HDD scanning programs?



Please elaborate. Is it that bad?
WAV files have no CRC information whatsoever. Meaning if one or 99% of the file is corrupted, you won't know (unless the header is bad as well).
With RARs and FLAC files you can tell if file corruption has happened (the non-malicious kind at least), but with WAVs and files that have little or no error checking (and critical system files). It seems either the new HDD is bad or the transfer sucks. In either case it's worthy of concern. Try making files (not just transferring them) on the SATA HDD and see what happens when you cut and paste it to a new folder, hopefully it should be fine; if not, your hard drive could be bad.

BTW: WAV files only report a bad CRC when Windows detects an error from the source disk (like from a stratched CD or bad floppy).

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?
YoMan
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Old Jul 9, 2006, 06:40 PM Local time: Jul 10, 2006, 12:40 AM #55 of 105
Okey, here is what i have done:

1. Compressed a flac album into one .rar file using winrar.

2. Move that file around old folders/new folders/different HDD's (I have 3 in this case) and tried to unpack and test it if its got any CRC errors.

3. The result: nothing, no CRC's errors whatsoever. My guess is that this thing happens randomly because i can't seem to find any pattern here. Sometimes it gets an error, sometimes it don't.

But why are errors such a big problem with flac files opposed to say mp3 files?

And a little humor to close off this post:

As i type this i see that my google ads read:

1. Corrupt File?
Free Registry scan, fix errors and improve PC performance. Try it now

2. Fix Corrupt Files Fast
All Corrupt Files Fixed Instantly Free Scan, Repair 100% Guaranteed

I thought it was kind of funny

FELIPE NO
Kaiten
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Old Jul 10, 2006, 08:10 AM Local time: Jul 10, 2006, 06:10 AM #56 of 105
Originally Posted by YoMan
Okey, here is what i have done:

1. Compressed a flac album into one .rar file using winrar.

2. Move that file around old folders/new folders/different HDD's (I have 3 in this case) and tried to unpack and test it if its got any CRC errors.

3. The result: nothing, no CRC's errors whatsoever. My guess is that this thing happens randomly because i can't seem to find any pattern here. Sometimes it gets an error, sometimes it don't.

But why are errors such a big problem with flac files opposed to say mp3 files?

And a little humor to close off this post:

As i type this i see that my google ads read:

1. Corrupt File?
Free Registry scan, fix errors and improve PC performance. Try it now

2. Fix Corrupt Files Fast
All Corrupt Files Fixed Instantly Free Scan, Repair 100% Guaranteed

I thought it was kind of funny
being lossless, FLAC files depend on perfect (or very near perfect) file integrity for decoding, mp3 files have very good fault tolerance to corruption (due to their nature to be streamed), they just skip ahead to the next decodable frame.

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ArrowHead
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Old Jul 10, 2006, 11:41 AM #57 of 105
What I do to guard my FLAC files against corruption is I use a program called QuickPar to make PAR2 recovery files for the FLACs. Then I burn the FLACs, the recovery files and a QuickPar installer all together to a DVD.

I have QuickPar set up to make its recovery files 20% of the size of the original data. Probably overkill... I think the default is 10%.

Jam it back in, in the dark.
sabbey
River Chocobo


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Old Jul 10, 2006, 12:47 PM Local time: Jul 10, 2006, 09:47 AM #58 of 105
I use SFVs to keep check on my FLACs and keep more than just a single DVD back-up, but also all of my music is on two EXT HDDs that are only used for storing the music...

They are also read-only access!

There's nowhere I can't reach.
ArrowHead
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Old Jul 10, 2006, 04:43 PM #59 of 105
I don't get why people use simple checksum tools for their own data. If you find corrupt files, what can you do but re-rip or re-download them? Seems kind of pointless to me.

I'd rather sacrifice some storage space to be able to actually recover corrupted files.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.
Kaiten
Everything new is old again


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Old Jul 10, 2006, 10:24 PM Local time: Jul 10, 2006, 08:24 PM #60 of 105
Originally Posted by ArrowHead
What I do to guard my FLAC files against corruption is I use a program called QuickPar to make PAR2 recovery files for the FLACs. Then I burn the FLACs, the recovery files and a QuickPar installer all together to a DVD.

I have QuickPar set up to make its recovery files 20% of the size of the original data. Probably overkill... I think the default is 10%.
Have you tested the robustness of QuickPar? I'd like to see how much you can corrupt a file before it becomes unreadable.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?
Eleo
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Old Jul 10, 2006, 10:37 PM #61 of 105
I used to make par2 files when I backed up music to guard from inevitable CRC errors. But then I realized I was killing my self trying to make them; very time/space consuming. I just gave up. I probably *should* do it for rarer things but for just downloads in general, it's just too much effort.

I was speaking idiomatically.
Kaiten
Everything new is old again


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Old Jul 18, 2006, 11:17 PM Local time: Jul 18, 2006, 09:17 PM #62 of 105
Originally Posted by Eleo
I used to make par2 files when I backed up music to guard from inevitable CRC errors. But then I realized I was killing my self trying to make them; very time/space consuming. I just gave up. I probably *should* do it for rarer things but for just downloads in general, it's just too much effort.
Doesn't sound too much of a waste of space to me. 10% backup of 4GB of files is 409.6MB.

How ya doing, buddy?
Eleo
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Old Jul 18, 2006, 11:46 PM #63 of 105
Still takes a great deal of time to deal with.

Maybe if their was a tool that allowed me to drag and drop several folders and just make par2 files and move them somewhere. Then I could just go ahead and make par2 files for all the stuff I've already backed up and future stuff as well.

But I instead always have to drag/drop chunks of flac files, logs and cues, artwork, etc. Then there's sometimes multiple discs and such; subdirectories. I just got done backing up 200GB worth of lossless and grew tired after making par2 files for the 20th DVD or so. I thought, forget it, if some stuff get's CRC errors on it then so be it. Maybe I'll make par2 files later for rarer stuff (presumably VGM since 99% of the lossless music community doesn't have or share any.)

To help myself I've bought more reliable (expensive) media; as I have most generally gotten CRC errors on cheaper, more generic media. Ideally I'd get some Taiyo Yuden discs, but right now I am using Ritek/Ridata and Verbatim.

EDIT: Also let's not forget that DVDs have a certain amount of error correction native to their design.

FELIPE NO

Last edited by Eleo; Jul 22, 2006 at 01:49 PM.
sabbey
River Chocobo


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Old Jul 22, 2006, 01:09 PM Local time: Jul 22, 2006, 10:09 AM #64 of 105
Anyone have a Philips DVD+-RW (DVD8801) drive? That's one of the drives that my new PC came with, but don't see it listed at the offset site. The other drive a LG DVD-ROM (GDR-8164B) is listed though...

BTW, any ideas if these are decent drives?

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?
Eleo
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Old Jul 22, 2006, 01:47 PM #65 of 105
You might have to detect the read offset in a more manual way.

You can do this by ripping a WAV with your LG drive using its correct read offset. Then, rip the same track with your Philips drive, configured with no offset, to WAV. Then you can use EAC's WAV comparison (Tools > Compare WAVs) to see if there are missing or duplicate samples between them.

I believe if there are duplicate samples then your Philips drive would be reading too early; you want to take the number of sample differences and create a positive offset from that. If there are missing samples then your drive is reading too late, you want to take the difference in samples and create a negative offset from that.

Or it might actually be vice-versa of what I said (positive for missing samples, negative for dupe samples). Keep playing around with it until WAVs ripped from both drives are identical (ie no difference in samples).

Jam it back in, in the dark.
sabbey
River Chocobo


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Old Jul 23, 2006, 12:38 PM Local time: Jul 23, 2006, 09:38 AM #66 of 105
Will give it a try I guess. Thanks...

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Kaiten
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Old Jul 23, 2006, 11:43 PM Local time: Jul 23, 2006, 09:43 PM #67 of 105
If you have the right CDs, you can find the read offset by using AccurateRip. If you CD-ROM is in the database, it'll automatically set the offset, if not you'll need three CDs on the offset list (which is over 20,000; compared to the 100ish that EAC uses internally).

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.
Eleo
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Old Jul 24, 2006, 04:05 PM #68 of 105
Oh, I thought it was a no-go with AccurateRip unless your drive was in the database. Finding 3 CDs can be a bitch, though, as there are different pressings of certain CDs, so even though it says Nirvana - In Utero will work, your copy of it might not work and can't be used for detection.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?
sabbey
River Chocobo


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Old Jul 25, 2006, 12:32 PM Local time: Jul 25, 2006, 09:32 AM #69 of 105
Thanks for the help guys! It ended up being the same offset that they use on their other DVD-RW drives though. Tested both using the offset and not doing so, it worked, so...

Hopefully, I'll find the write offset soon enough!

I was speaking idiomatically.
Eleo
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Old Jul 25, 2006, 09:54 PM #70 of 105
Okay, that's believable.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?
Kaiten
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Old Jul 25, 2006, 10:16 PM Local time: Jul 25, 2006, 08:16 PM #71 of 105
Originally Posted by Eleo
Oh, I thought it was a no-go with AccurateRip unless your drive was in the database. Finding 3 CDs can be a bitch, though, as there are different pressings of certain CDs, so even though it says Nirvana - In Utero will work, your copy of it might not work and can't be used for detection.
It's a pain, but borrow someone else's CD collection to do so (like I did). It'd be stupid for those Drives not in the database to have no chance to work with AccurateRip. It's nice that AccurateRip isn't a one trick pony isn't it?

FELIPE NO
ArrowHead
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Old Jul 26, 2006, 10:54 AM #72 of 105
AccurateRip is a godsend.

Without it I would have never known I was using the wrong offset on my drive.

I guess I have the wrong pressing of Radiohead - OK Computer, because that's what EAC used with its internal database to determine my drive's offset. Using that, it told me my offset was something like +1092, and I believed it.

Turns out it's more like +98.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?
sabbey
River Chocobo


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Old Jul 26, 2006, 02:46 PM Local time: Jul 26, 2006, 11:46 AM #73 of 105
Anyone using the latest version of EAC? Having a slight issue...

http://www.gamingforce.com/forums/os...-beta-4-a.html

Jam it back in, in the dark.
Bigblah
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Old Jul 29, 2006, 12:54 PM Local time: Jul 30, 2006, 01:54 AM #74 of 105
A tip for people who are having problems with Japanese tracklists from freedb that show up as a string of question marks in EAC, even when you've set the language for non-Unicode programs to Japanese in Windows regional & language options.

Change your freedb server to the following:
http://freedbtest.dyndns.org:80/~cddb/cddb.cgi

How ya doing, buddy?
Basil
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Old Aug 7, 2006, 02:25 PM Local time: Aug 7, 2006, 01:25 PM #75 of 105
If anyone has the time, would they be able to verify something for me?

I just want to make sure I have the right offset correction for my CD drive. My drive is a "JLMS XJ-HD166S"

I searched it on Google, and came up with this:
http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?t=67103

Right now I'm using +12 offset correction, which was posted inside the thread in the link above. I have yet to test an actual CD rip though.

Double Post:
Okay, here's a print screen of my results:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y21...lle/offset.jpg


I ripped the first track from a CD, and I did this twice. The first time is WITHOUT offset correction, and the second time is WITH offset correction.

Double Post:
Two last questions...


Do I need to burn a WAV to a CD-RW in order to test the offset correction, or have I already done that above?

And, the start point of the first track on the CD I test-ripped is "0:00:00.00". Does everything seem good?

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Last edited by Basil; Aug 7, 2006 at 03:02 PM. Reason: Automerged additional post.
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Exploding Garrmondo Weiner Interactive Swiss Army Penis > Garrmondo Music and Trading > Behind the Music > Guide to Proper Lossless Rips

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