So glad we defeated the Taliban!

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...095003,00.html

But apparently it didn't change things a hell of alot.

This shows the fatal flaw in the George Bush/Tony Blair philosophy of bringing democracy to the middle east. You can "liberate" these people from their various dictatorial regimes, but you can't liberate them from their own religion. This is why the Iraq experiment will fail, as will all attempts to bring democrary, a western concept, to a people with a 7th century mindset.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Wesker

democrary, a western concept

Greece is a hell of a lot closer to the Middle East than it is to America, buddy.

Perhaps we could try getting democracy working here before we try spreading it all over the place.

How ya doing, buddy?

Now I'm not the biggest supporter of Christianity or any organised religion for that matter. But this takes the cake. It does indeed show that it's not the governments in themselves that are the problem.

Rather the harsh Sharia laws they follow are the main issue. I honestly think the muslim fate as it is today with these laws are indeed a threath to both outsiders and people in the religion itself...

Disclaimer: I have nothing against people of the muslim fate and have read some of the koran and think it does raise some good points. But rather I think the Sharia law based on the muslim fate are to strict to work in a changing world...

How ya doing, buddy?

I'm not condoning this killing, but this is not the first or the last time someone has been killed for their religious beliefs or race or any other superfluous cause. The U.S. army is doing the same thing. See a BBC news report on it here.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by knkwzrd

Greece is a hell of a lot closer to the Middle East than it is to America, buddy.

Perhaps we could try getting democracy working here before we try spreading it all over the place.

Ummm..Greece was known as the "Cradle of Western Civilization"...we're not talking geography here bozo, as Japan..in the far east, is considered a western style democracy. And democracy, or a representative from of government works pretty well here, in case you haven't noticed.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Wesker

And democracy, or a representative from of government works pretty well here, in case you haven't noticed.

That really depends on your definition of "pretty well". heh heh.

Ugh.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Quote:

Ummm..Greece was known as the "Cradle of Western Civilization"

Emphasis on the "was." Nowadays, Western Civilization has more roots in France than Greece or Rome.

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Originally Posted by Wesker

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...095003,00.html

But apparently it didn't change things a hell of alot.

This shows the fatal flaw in the George Bush/Tony Blair philosophy of bringing democracy to the middle east. You can "liberate" these people from their various dictatorial regimes, but you can't liberate them from their own religion. This is why the Iraq experiment will fail, as will all attempts to bring democrary, a western concept, to a people with a 7th century mindset.

To begin with,it would be too naive to think that Bush/Blair are attacking countries to introduce democracy.
Their steps were fundamentlay flawed and evident,if you didnt noticed it earlier and now this petty piece of article opening your eyes,thn all i can say is
"Bravo kid".

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

All I have to say is, bully for the Afghanis. We came in there to give them a choice, and they chose to adhere to Islamic Law, though not being an actual theocracy.

This fella was well aware of what would happen to him when he converted. Becoming a martyr for Christendom is just as good as the 101 virgins, right?

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Bradylama

All I have to say is, bully for the Afghanis. We came in there to give them a choice, and they chose to adhere to Islamic Law, though not being an actual theocracy.

If they adhere to Islamic Law, then I'm pretty sure that make's them a theocracy. Their faith is playing a dominant role in their government.

How ya doing, buddy?

But their faith is not their government.

For Afghanistan to technically be a theocracy, the Mullahs or the Ayatohllas, or whatever the Hell the local clergy calls themselves would hold effective political power. Simply because a nation adheres to a law put forth by a religion does not necessarily make it theocratic.

None of our laws contradict Christian ones, do they?

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Bradylama

But their faith is not their government.

For Afghanistan to technically be a theocracy, the Mullahs or the Ayatohllas, or whatever the Hell the local clergy calls themselves would hold effective political power. Simply because a nation adheres to a law put forth by a religion does not necessarily make it theocratic.

Differing ideas on the definition of theocracy then.

A theocracy in my mind is a government that is "divinely" inspired and follows the ideals of a religon. Not necessarily needing a religous figurehead or icon to be head of state. If they follow Islamic laws down the the letter, which seems to be the case that fits under my notion of a theocracy.

Plus, government has always co-opted religous figureheads.

Originally Posted by Bradylama

None of our laws contradict Christian ones, do they?

No, but not all of them agree with Christian ideals. Laws are suppose to be blind in a religous/race/sex sense. In this case, the ideals of the extremist Muslims are being followed. Enough in my mind to qualify them as a theocracy.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

While Afghanistan may not be a theocracy, they lean very heavily upon Sharia law.

Suppose the U.S. Constitution were formed tightly around Presbyterianism. Any variation from that doctrine would be considered an "attack on Presbyterianism". Suddenly the U.S isn't so welcoming to Jews or Catholics, or even Methodists for that matter because they're not as Calvinistic as the Presbyterians.

Attempting to form free western style democracies with people who cling to Islamic law is doomed to fail. Islamic law and western freedoms are in complete opposition.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Wesker

Attempting to form free western style democracies with people who cling to Islamic law is doomed to fail. Islamic law and western freedoms are in complete opposition.

This assumes that freedom is required for democracy in the first place.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by knkwzrd

I'm not condoning this killing, but this is not the first or the last time someone has been killed for their religious beliefs or race or any other superfluous cause. The U.S. army is doing the same thing. See a BBC news report on it here.

Umm wtf. Our military will investigate it, if anyone actually did what is claimed they will be spending time in a military prison. How does this have anything to do with the topic at hand?

As for Afganistan's stupid laws. I don't agree with what these people are doing but these are the laws they have enacted on themselves. Stupid as it sounds it us, this is what the majority of the people want. They are not the US where there are many different kinds of people. They do things differently and while I find it very offensive that they will kill a man rather than just deport him for being a christian, it is not my place to say they can not do that to themselves.

Religious Equality seems to be something to complicated for them :/

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Originally Posted by Gumby

Umm wtf. Our military will investigate it, if anyone actually did what is claimed they will be spending time in a military prison. How does this have anything to do with the topic at hand?

As for Afganistan's stupid laws. I don't agree with what these people are doing but these are the laws they have enacted on themselves. Stupid as it sounds it us, this is what the majority of the people want. They are not the US where there are many different kinds of people. They do things differently and while I find it very offensive that they will kill a man rather than just deport him for being a christian, it is not my place to say they can not do that to themselves.

Religious Equality seems to be something to complicated for them :/

Deport him? How can you just deport people whom you don't want in your country? Where would all the undesired people go?

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

I think what most people misunderstand is that we cannot change the middle-east.

You guys remember this little period in European history called the dark ages? Yeah, after the fall of the Roman empire until the Renaissance/Enlightenment age? That's what the Middle-East is going through right now. They're in the stranglehold of religious fundamentalism, the government/clergy control all the media. If you control access to information, you control their awareness and ultimately their thoughts.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

I just think it's hilarious that the Afghanistan people, as a united whole, chose to be choked by a different group of god-fanboys than the previous group they used to have.

"Yes! I like warlords!"

How ya doing, buddy?

The difference this time is that it's a group they chose. (plus they all want this guy dead)

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

The problem seems to rest in the current Islamist movement taking over Islam as a whole. Moderate Muslims can look to the following verses to see that this kind of harsh treatment goes against the teachings of their holy books:

2:256 There is no compulsion in religion, for the right way is clearly from the wrong way. Whoever therefore rejects the forces of evil and believes in God, he has taken hold of a support most unfailing, which shall never give way, for God is All Hearing and Knowing.

16:82 But if they turn away from you, (O Prophet remember that) your only duty is a clear delivery of the Message (entrusted to you).

Yet there is such a strong pull in Islam to go back to 7th century brutality. While all religions have their entrenched nutcases, Islam seems to be the only one where the nutcases are, for the most part, running the show.

Perhaps the very nature of Islam lends itself to a government with a strong central, and more secular, leader. Maybe a Saddam, or Khadaffi, or Musharef for that matter, is what is needed to keep things from turning into a Sharia based theocratic mess.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by PUG1911

Deport him? How can you just deport people whom you don't want in your country? Where would all the undesired people go?

It was just a suggestion other than killing the man.

Wesker: Just because the text is in their holy book doesn't mean they actually take it to heart, I'm sure they pick out only the parts that benefit them. From the illogical reaction to a few cartoons I'm not to sure these people are entirely sane, so don't expect sane reactions from them.

I was speaking idiomatically.

The fact of the matter is, its the Afghanistani's people choice what they wish their laws to be. If they want to be a religious theocracy, so let it be.

It isn't that Western-style government and Islam aren't compatible, its that people want to rule in a way that makes them incompatible. And as long as we decide that the people have the power to choose, we have no choice but to accept the decision of the Afghani people.

Besides, what kind of idiot decides to convert from Christianity to Islam in Afghanistan anyways. The guy should be smarter than that, period.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

No don't fault the man for believing in something other than what 99.99999% of his crazy country men believe. I personally think that the stupid thing was that he decided to stay in a place where he knew he would be killed for his believes...

FELIPE NO

Because, you know, he obviously had the necessary resources to pack-up everything and leave everything and everyone he knows behind. I mean, duh, what idiot can't see the logic in leaving behind everyone you know and love?

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Is it just me or does the guy in the picture look excited?

Jam it back in, in the dark.