[:plant:] E3 2013: "Xbox, turn on PS4 so I can actually play games"

I can't imagine it'll be free, but they seem to usually offer Plus discounts on new games a lot of the time it seems like? And yeah, that might be my first new PSN over XBLA purchase as well, not sure yet.

How ya doing, buddy?

Sometimes they do. Bloodrayne Betrayal and Double Dragon Neon were free to PS+ members at launch and for some time after. I kinda regret not getting the Street Fighter IV Arcade edition while it was free, but I did get NBA Jam!

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

D&D wasn't even mentioned in the releases for this upcoming week on the PS Blog, which is concerning.

I was speaking idiomatically.

D&D Thief class trailer

Release date at the end of the trailer. I think XBL gets it the next day though. Unless something has changed since last week that I haven't read.

I'm still trying to figure on what game I should pre-order alongside the PS4. I'm thinking maybe Watch Dogs. I know I'll want to try and get The Order 1886 when that drops. Kingdom Hearts 3 next year is a no-brainer too.

edits: It's live and bought! (D&D)

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Well things just got interesting

from Giantbomb

Quote:

Microsoft to Pull Complete Reversal on Xbox One DRM Policies
by Patrick Klepek on June 19, 2013

Sources indicate Microsoft is going to move away from what's caused the company so much headache.
The tug-of-war between Microsoft and Sony just got more interesting. Multiple sources inform me Microsoft will announce what amounts to a complete reversal on its DRM policies for Xbox One today.

What does this mean?

No more always online requirement
The console no longer has to check in every 24 hours
All game discs will work on Xbox One as they do on Xbox 360
An Internet connection is only required when initially setting up the console
All downloaded games will function the same when online or offline
No additional restrictions on trading games or loaning discs
Region locks have been dropped
It is unclear what caused this huge change in policy right after E3, a week where Microsoft executives spent days explaining, justifying, and talking about its policies to the press. I suspect Microsoft’s official announcement will say something to the effect of “we've been closely listening to consumer feedback.”

Based on what I’m being told, that’s definitely true.

I've reached out to Microsoft for comment.

Microsoft has taken an enormous amount of heat regarding DRM policies with its new console. Sony became consumer heroes at E3, announcing PlayStation 4 would not treat used games differently, and the status quo would reign. The company released this video, twisting the knife:

FELIPE NO

It's been confirmed by MS: Your Feedback Matters – Update on Xbox One

I'm just gonna copy my FB post about it:

Quote:

Hilarious how some people were saying it was just hardcore gaming nerds bitching about it; one of the biggest companies in the world doesn't do a complete 180 on their policies when nerds on the internet complain. They do a 180 when:

-Your console and DRM policy is getting huge and widespread scorn in every major news and media outlet like the WSJ, Time, Rolling Stone, NPR, etc.
-You have extremely confusing and offputting messaging, like "if you don't have an internet connection you can just buy a 360" and "we're overdelivering value" (WHAT DOES THAT EVEN MEAN)
-Your competitor announces that they're not doing DRM and just are doing what they're doing today and everyone loses their goddamn minds. Then your competitor releases a 30 second video basically mocking you that currently has over 12 MILLION VIEWS.
-Jimmy Fallon has both the Xbone and PS4 on, and he actually says on the show that the PS4 supports used games and the Xbone doesn't AND THE CROWD GOES NUTS.
-The Navy Times publicly condemns the system as Microsoft outright disregarding all US Military troops.
-Your console is getting absolutely destroyed in pre-orders by the PS4. As of right now the PS4 is the second highest selling item of the YEAR in games, followed in 1st place by a PSN card. And that's only for the launch day standalone version; currently Xbone is #1, but that's because there's 4 separate PS4 bundles that are all right behind it which are collectively shitting on it. Also getting destroyed in preorder listings at every other retailer of note worldwide including Gamestop and Best Buy.
-Congress introduces a bill that would force the Kinect to be optional, require an explict opt-in process, and would state on screen all times WE ARE WATCHING YOU when it is on (this is actually 100% real and hilarious).


Even my 40+ year old coworkers who don't play games have been talking about this because their kids buy games, and they "heard on NPR" the Xbox doesn't allow used games and has the online connection which they don't have in the kids room. Anyone saying that this was just people on the internet making a fuss just got fucking told hard.

I will also give them credit for removing region locks. The problem for me personally is that techwise the PS4 is superior, it's literally inarguable unless you want to argue then nebulous "power of the cloud" which literally means nothing right now. Also this throws all of the statements from developers about how they can do all of this supposedly crazy shit BECAUSE OF THE POWER OF THE CLOUD totally under the bus, since if you don't have to be online you either have to program you games without this amazing power, or anyone who isn't online is fucked.

Also you have Kinect always on as well as it being $100 more expensive on top of that. So while I am actually genuinely impressed (and amused) that they backpeddled on this, they've already kinda shot themselves in the foot for me personally; this gen I was 360 first and PS3 only for exclusives, gonna be the other way around nextgen. But this announcement will at least be getting me to get an Xbone at some point, but it'll be a secondary purchase and not a primary one. They'll also be digging themselves out of a PR hole for years; you only get one first impression, and casuals/mainstream may not even realize that they've changed their policy on this for a long time. There are still people who think the Wii U is an add-on for the Wii.

Is this the biggest gaming megaton that's ever happened? The only thing I can think of that's maybe comparable is Sega backing out of hardware.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

That has been my number one question all along. How exactly the cloud thingie works, is it a online must thing or does Forza for instance work without it?

no homo

Even if they do pull a massive U-turn, I fear the damage is already done at this point. Microsoft has suffered a PR disaster in the last couple of weeks and even if the One launches with none of the second hand games bullshit or whatever, in the back of people's minds is that Microsoft are the guys that wanted DRM and to stop us selling our games or lending them to people and Sony are the guys who didn't, yay Sony.

It's like the PSOne was an industry changing event and made gaming cool and socially acceptable and then everyone was really excited about the PS2 and it had GTA3 and was awesome. Then out of nowhere MS go and launch a console and everyone was a big suspicious and it was a slow starter but the Halo was awesome and Live made online console gaming easy and it caught on in a big way. Next gen Sony tried really hard but failed to capture what was great about Live but kinda missed the point and the PS3 was pretty expensive for nothing that special whereas the 360 improved on the original and went from strength to strength until MS saw some advertising dollar signs and launched a horrid new menu interface that was all about paying for tv shows and social networking and not really games. Now MS announce the follow up and it's sold as a tv box that sometimes plays games only MS want every single quid they can get out of you and Sony leap in and suddenly re-capture some of the excitement about PS2 and manage to make MS look really cynical and corporate in the process.

Xbox One has been weirdly marketed so far. They're all about watching tv and going on facebook but literally everyone has digital tv and a laptop that do those things better already. How they thought they could try and control the entire second hand games market and get away with it is anyone's guess. I imagine someone's getting sacked soon though.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Well, now I'm conflicted. Do I go with the Xbox, with its vastly superior controller and Forza, all the while wondering in the back of my mind when the other shoe will drop, or with the PSquad, because they've been less douchy about things, and hope that they get the online stuff right this time?

Actually, I think I'll just play it safe and let all of you nerds buy both, wait for your reviews, and then make my decision next Spring.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Well I'll be damned, Microsoft actually does have a brain. Still saving $100 and keeping my PS4 preorder.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

That XBone will most likely be a secondary purchase for me, but I do hate adding the camera to the package. I won't use it most likely.

Sticking with PS4.

I was speaking idiomatically.

The region dropping has GOT to be because the Navy Times called them out on it. I see no other fucking reason for it.

It's so good it actually brings the start of a sparkle to my otherwise emotionless, dead eyes.

Mmm.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Certainly, this does eliminate some of the biggest issues I had with the device. It leaves me torn a little bit, actually. I honestly don't think the spec differences Daravon mentioned are gonna mean a damn thing in the end-- publishers on the whole are going to develop multiplatform, so games are going to be remarkably similar. The controller looks great, which is a big deal to me.

I do like a lot of the non-gaming features of the Xbone, but honestly, that Kinect is killing me. I have no space for Kinect gaming in the bedroom, and speaking/gesturing commands is not going to warrant a hundred-dollar premium over the PS4. I think the cost and that, ultimately, I am a JRPG faggot are still gonna steer me toward a PS4 over a Bone for now. Maybe I can be convinced before launch with something impressive, but for now... Eh.

FELIPE NO

Hey Zip tell me more about how the XBone DRM policy was a good business decision lolololol

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

I've actually seen quite a few people who are disappointed with this announcement. Most of them seemed to be under the impression that you could designate a bunch of your friends as "family" and only have to buy one copy of a game between you (which Microsoft would never have stood for), and others wanted to see the online shop and remote game access happen.

Really, what it comes down to is we don't trust Microsoft enough to hand them that much control over our games. There were innovative ideas there, sure, but that was one deep end the gaming community just wasn't ready to jump into. Especially when we strongly suspected that the deep end was full of sharks.

Steam has earned our trust. Microsoft will have to do the same if they want to try to have similar policies.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

That's part of it. Do you know why I don't give a shit about Steam's DRM? Because there are other options available to me as a consumer on a PC, if I want, and because a lot of the games cost three dollars,

There's nowhere I can't reach.

This is what I've been saying for ages. On a PC the DRM is not that big of a deal as you have options to bypass it if you ever have problems with, say, a legit bought copy refusing to start or something. You can try a game (illegally) before deciding for yourself whether you think the developer deserves your money for it or not.

On a closed system like consoles, there is none of this, and the digital only future looks less and less appealing every day.

Most amazing jew boots

Originally Posted by Mystery Priest Hits Romantic Dunk

This is what I've been saying for ages. On a PC the DRM is not that big of a deal as you have options to bypass it if you ever have problems with, say, a legit bought copy refusing to start or something. You can try a game (illegally) before deciding for yourself whether you think the developer deserves your money for it or not.

I dunno man, the argument "It's not a good feature list because I can't pirate to test the waters or when I don't like the DRM" is kind of a flimsy one. Don't get me wrong though, I agree that there were some genuinely neat features that were overshadowed by user-hostile regulations that made it unpalatable.

I wonder if Microsoft could have struck a better balance between what they were going to do and what they're doing now? To be honest, I was only genuinely offended by forced check-ins. I try not to buy used games for the usual reasons you hear (the developers of good games see none of the profit; Gamestop is a shitty, parasitic company), so I'm not sure if I would have cared much about the licenses that had to be transferred when selling a game.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Pachter explains it the best
Pach-Attack! Video - DRM Derailed | GameTrailers

no homo

I'm not sure how that makes things any better. He just told us what reasonable people already knew-- Microsoft wasn't stomping on our balls for the sake of stomping on them; they were stomping on our balls because they don't trust us to not share our one purchased game with 20 friends.

Doesn't change the fact that they were stomping on our balls.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by Axelrod :grundlecheck: Axelrod

Hey Zip tell me more about how the XBone DRM policy was a good business decision lolololol

Whenever you're ready, GFF Marketing Expert.

FELIPE NO

Also it turns out that from multiple reliable sources (MS will never verify either way, because they have no reason to) that the 10 person family game sharing thing was only for 60 minute demos and not the full game. It's been hilarious how for a day or so there was this subset of the internet and press (Gizmondo I think in particular) that was blaming everyone saying that we destroyed the best feature of the system and were holding back innovation...and it turns out all that we were holding back was demos. This continues to be good times.

This still earns MS back a lot of credibility to the general masses, but those people also probably don't care too much about the difference between the Xbone and PS4, and they're going to see the PS4 is $100 cheaper. Everything's going to sell out initially, but unless Sony either super fucks up or MS does a $100 price drop before launch, MS is going to get destroyed after the holidays. Casuals care about CoD, but not enough to spend $100 more to get a X1 to get DLC a month early.

Most amazing jew boots

Originally Posted by SailorDaravon

Also it turns out that from multiple reliable sources (MS will never verify either way, because they have no reason to) that the 10 person family game sharing thing was only for 60 minute demos and not the full game. It's been hilarious how for a day or so there was this subset of the internet and press (Gizmondo I think in particular) that was blaming everyone saying that we destroyed the best feature of the system and were holding back innovation...and it turns out all that we were holding back was demos. This continues to be good times.

If by "multiple reliable sources," you mean "one guy on Pastebin claiming to be a disgruntled engineer." I don't buy it. Besides the goddamn absurdity of this source, why would this guy who's mad about us pissing away the future let slip that Family Sharing is that fucking weak?

EDIT: Just did a bit of digging. Aaron Greenberg and Marc Whitten (two high-level Xbox executives at Microsoft) have said on Twitter that the Pastebin writer is full of shit. Could be lying. I get the feeling they probably aren't though.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Axelrod :grundlecheck: Axelrod

Whenever you're ready, GFF Marketing Expert.

I know you like to play this internet tough guy, asshole, but what I said to you in the chat is exactly what Pachter is saying in the video. My example was with Forza and e.g. groups like GFF just sendin games back and forth, that's why a drm was needed. In that way it's a good business decision to keep sales going. On the used game issue (which has nothing to do with this) I still stand by that if used games were removed -certain- sales would go up since people would have no other choice to buy games new, there is a study that wiredgamer (and others) did that supported that and hinted that it could lead to lower game prices (which I dont agree 100% with).
Those were business decision, I never said it's a good marketing decision. I even told you in the same discussion that branding wise it's probably bad.
Business and marketing decisions are two different things.
Now take your transformers chain and stop trolling.

no homo

Originally Posted by Final Fantasy Phoneteen

If by "multiple reliable sources," you mean "one guy on Pastebin claiming to be a disgruntled engineer." I don't buy it. Besides the goddamn absurdity of this source, why would this guy who's mad about us pissing away the future let slip that Family Sharing is that fucking weak?

EDIT: Just did a bit of digging. Aaron Greenberg and Marc Whitten (two high-level Xbox executives at Microsoft) have said on Twitter that the Pastebin writer is full of shit. Could be lying. I get the feeling they probably aren't though.

::trust Microsoft mouthpiece on the issue::

The Pastebin was confirmed correct by several reliable GAF sources that have been 100 percent correct in the past; including one who's nailed every single reveal this year weeks early as a matter of course. Pastebins themselves are of course not a reliable source of info, but if you're taking the company line on it you're being just as ridiculous.

There's also this: Which is a good reading between the lines that shows this was probably already announced, no one noticed it though: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost...6&postcount=48

Does anyone REALLY THINK they would essentially allow 6 and 7 dollar XBOne games out the door for life? After all these other controls? Are you stupid?

Originally Posted by Zip

I know you like to play this internet tough guy, asshole, but what I said to you in the chat is exactly what Pachter is saying in the video. My example was with Forza and e.g. groups like GFF just sendin games back and forth, that's why a drm was needed. In that way it's a good business decision to keep sales going. On the used game issue (which has nothing to do with this) I still stand by that if used games were removed -certain- sales would go up since people would have no other choice to buy games new, there is a study that wiredgamer (and others) did that supported that and hinted that it could lead to lower game prices (which I dont agree 100% with).
Those were business decision, I never said it's a good marketing decision. I even told you in the same discussion that branding wise it's probably bad.
Business and marketing decisions are two different things.
Now take your transformers chain and stop trolling.

You should pay more attention to whom you're addressing, and generally stop being a shitweasel. Your example was a manufactured problem in an attempt to justify outdated business practices. You claimed multiple points of proof and provided none of them. You defended the business decision because an authority figure made it, and you are now sticking by that VERY SAME definition when the authority figure has turned around and said "welp that was a bad idea". You also cited several examples of scenarios based entirely on hypotheticals and personal anecdotes.

Citing Pachter, someone notorious for being as wrong as he is right, is probably not the best move either. The man's a talking head personality and plays up opinions for clicks. It's amazing how people don't realize this in twenty fucking thirteen.

So eat a dick.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.