Why is the murder rate in the US so high?

Originally Posted by Rotorblade

Right. My point was that because of this fact, it's wrong to invoke it as a supposed "benefit" to blacks or any other culture in society. I think there's still resolution that needs to be made, but that's neither here nor there, so yes, let's drop this. We're sort of in agreement, I can call that progress for now.

Well I completely missed your point then. As I said before, it's not exactly easy to understand what you are saying as your thoughts are poorly organized.

Originally Posted by Rotorblade

Look, don't insult my intelligence by pointing me or anyone else to an entire article. Summarize whatever backs up your point or refutes mine, quote it, do something... but don't toss it in my face. Debate doesn't work that way.

Why don't you educate yourself and look for the information rather than asking me to throw it at you. It isn't my place to educate you. Quit being stupid.

Originally Posted by Rotorblade

Here's the thing, I don't disagree with you on this. It's your line of reasoning for "why" that I disagree with. Yes, gangs are a problem, blacks are not the only race of people who partake in organized crime. Nor are they the only ones to use a source of media to justify their actions. You can say that about anybody who lives a criminal lifestyle. Hackers use fictional characters like Radical Edward as a mascot. Italian Mafiosos love the Godfather films and Goodfellas. That said, media isn't the problem, the very idea of blaming the media takes the blame, the responsibility off of the shoulders of people who break the law and places it solely on the people who merely tell stories about it.

Yes, I agree; however, I think that it is quite evident that there is a crisis among the black community. It is more prevalent than other cultures. Also, I think it's quite ironic how you bash me earlier for making a comparison between ethnic groups, yet you are doing the same thing here. Well done.

Originally Posted by Rotorblade

Which group of people are breaking the law, Tesla? "The Devil made me do it" is not an excuse, so why should "dem rap lyrics made me do it" be different?

Did I say the rap music was the exact cause? No, I only said it contributes to the problem. LEARN TO READ!

Originally Posted by Rotorblade

Again, my point isn't that "blacks are not the majority right now", I don't care if they are or aren't. Nor is it, "blacks live in poverty, that sucks and you should feel it sucks too." I'm saying your reasoning is flawed. That there's a reason that so many blacks turn to drugs and crime as a way to live.

Of course there is a reason. Tell me how my reasoning is flawed. I see nothing wrong with my reasoning. You are misinterpreting everything I say, and I suggest you slow down and read. I never said rap was the only reason. I said it is a possibility that it contributes to the problem, considering that's what gangsta rap music is all about, and it's such an issue in the black community. To blame everything exclusively on rap music would be idiocy. Again, quit putting words in my mouth.

Originally Posted by Rotorblade

The "Civil Rights" era ended, I'd say, in the 80s. That isn't 200-400 years ago. Blacks have just begun to see themselves in society as more than just second class citizens. As they assert themselves in these positions, they have to face old prejudices, new prejudices, social stigma... a lot of things that outline the problems that have lingered from years of being poorly educated and held down by American society.

And other races don't? That's the point I was trying to make by relating them to Native Americans. By your logic, women should be equally compensated for dealing with the same "old prejudices" which have existed for thousands of years. Quit grasping for straws.

Originally Posted by Rotorblade

No, Tesla. Let me blunt: I think you're a racist in denial. Something in me feels that you either hear that often, or not often enough. I don't even like saying it. I think you have some underlying issues with blacks that have broken the law that puts you in an outrage and prevents you from distinguishing between an individual and the crimes they commit and a group of people who shouldn't all be associated with wrong doing just because "OMG, majority."

Ah, the old bigot retort. If I am a racist, does that make Bill Cosby a racist? You know nothing about me so don't even go there. There is an issue in the black community today, according to the statistics I have presented. You are in denial and do a good job at shunning the truth. I never said murder rates were high only because of blacks. Show me where I said that, you will be unsuccessful. Just because my first few posts on the subject were ill-explained isn't an excuse to tell me that I am a racist. I do not believe blacks are solely to blame for the high murder rates; however, I do believe they are a contributing factor.

The statistics cannot be ignored, quit being a coward and admit it.

Originally Posted by Rotorblade

No, no, no. Where are the statistics based on rap, the media? Typically, anything that either glorifies or empathizes with a criminal lifestyle has people who look up to something in the media to justify what they do. You haven't presented any statistics regarding blacks and rap and "percentage of people who break the law that listen to rap music." And even if you did, you'll NEVER win a conclusive argument with that approach, because even scholars and psychiatrists aren't entirely sure how much affect the media has on antisocial behavior.

Which is precisely why I said it may be a contributing factor and it is concerning. I said, "maybe", keyword there. Again, learn to read. As I have said before, I am not the only person who believes this way, and I linked you to an article where Bill Cosby feels the same way.

Originally Posted by Rotorblade

A comparison that had no merit whatsoever and explained nothing.

Obviously, you just suck at interpreting what I say.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

The statistics only indicate that there is something significantly wrong in the way the majority of black America lives. When thrown into outright poverty, crime quickly becomes a real option. The very nature of this country's policies allows for a highly profitable drug trade to prosper, and the ones left running it are the ones left with no where else to turn. Murder then turns out to a way of making more money, of finding your way out of the ghetto, of actually having a comfortable standing in life.

So before you're so quick to blame this country's problems on a single race, or any group of people, look a little deeper into the issue. Rap has only become one of many scapegoats the media at large, and petty hate mongers such as yourself, like to spew out.

There is no simple answer to this incredibly complex and widespread issue. Quit trying to make it sound like there is. You sound like a douche bag.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

White kid doesn't understand crime causation and black culture? Well I never.

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Murder then turns out to a way of making more money, of finding your way out of the ghetto, of actually having a comfortable standing in life.

In black markets, murder is a tool to force out competition or to guarantee the honoring of informal contracts. That's what happens when business can't be run legitimately.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Capo

The statistics only indicate that there is something significantly wrong in the way the majority of black America lives. When thrown into outright poverty, crime quickly becomes a real option. The very nature of this country's policies allows for a highly profitable drug trade to prosper, and the ones left running it are the ones left with no where else to turn. Murder then turns out to a way of making more money, of finding your way out of the ghetto, of actually having a comfortable standing in life.

So before you're so quick to blame this country's problems on a single race, or any group of people, look a little deeper into the issue. Rap has only become one of many scapegoats the media at large, and petty hate mongers such as yourself, like to spew out.

There is no simple answer to this incredibly complex and widespread issue. Quit trying to make it sound like there is. You sound like a douche bag.

I agree with you whole-heartedly. Did I say anything about it being JUST Black people? no. Did I ever say rap was the only contributing factor? no.

I merely said they may be contributions to the issue. I understand it is a complex issue. The only point I am trying to make is that there is a problem in the black community today, and they definitely contribute to the high murder rates. I never said anything about black people being the only reason why murder rates are high. Quit mis-interpreting what I say.

Originally Posted by Bradylama

White kid doesn't understand crime causation and black culture? Well I never.

Yeah, shut up.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Did you stop to think that maybe violent music is symptomatic of a problem and not the cause of it?

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by Bradylama

Did you stop to think that maybe violent music is symptomatic of a problem and not the cause of it?

Absolutely. Either way, I believe it has some bearing over the youth today.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

So you think that Immortal Technique has more influence in regards to the "Don't Snitch" movement than police abuses and their incompetent protection of state's witnesses?

Just keep riding bikes around your cul-de-sac, honky. Tipper Gore could not link causation to suggestive lyrics, what makes you think you're right?

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Tesla

On average, they make better grades in school, and lower crime rates than the black population (divided by ratio).

Citation please on the grades part. I think that's wrong. I'm pretty sure it's wrong in Arizona, anyway.

(You're right on the crime rates, but looking only at the rate isn't enough. A large part of that is because Native Americans are typically policed by Native Americans, while blacks are typically policed by whites.)

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Bradylama

So you think that Immortal Technique has more influence in regards to the "Don't Snitch" movement than police abuses and their incompetent protection of state's witnesses?

Just keep riding bikes around your cul-de-sac, honky. Tipper Gore could not link causation to suggestive lyrics, what makes you think you're right?

Ok I agree with you, I think you are just missing my point. The "Don't Snitch" movement obviously is another contributing factor, and definitely has more relevance. It has obviously initiated a catharsis among black youth; however, it would be ignorant to say that rap music is not influential. It influences the way people act, talk, and behave. I would ask you to stop being condescending just because your opinions may differ from mine, although from my perspective, they do not seem far off.

Also, Tipper Gore is an idiot.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

You're confusing correlation with causation. Again.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Rap music is only indicative of what people already think. Music speaks to people because it plays to their state of mind. If Public Enemy spoke to a disenfranchised demographic, it shouldn't have been surprising that a large portion of their fanbase was young white suburbanites.

Your claim that rap music influences behavior doesn't hold water, since the hyper masculine and misogynistic culture existed before Hip Hop was even folk music.

Blacksploitation Films embodied similar problems with black culture long before rap.

YouTube Video

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Bradylama

Rap music is only indicative of what people already think. Music speaks to people because it plays to their state of mind. If Public Enemy spoke to a disenfranchised demographic, it shouldn't have been surprising that a large portion of their fanbase was young white suburbanites.

Your claim that rap music influences behavior doesn't hold water, since the hyper masculine and misogynistic culture existed before Hip Hop was even folk music.

Blacksploitation Films embodied similar problems with black culture long before rap.

Now this is where we disagree. Rap music isn't to blame for the high crime rates among the black community, but it is responsible for the present culture they present, especially among the youth. Basically, every black guy on MTV or BET presents themselves in a way that definitely is influenced by rap culture. Rap culture promotes violence, so it wouldn't be outlandish to make a connection somewhere. I am not saying that it leads everyone to participate in crime. I'm saying that it is possible that rap music may contribute to the gang/criminal behavior. Obviously, some just listen to it because it sounds good; although, it does in some way influence the way black people in today's society act. That is a fact.

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A fact? Oh, really now? According to whom, exactly?

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by Tesla

Well I completely missed your point then. As I said before, it's not exactly easy to understand what you are saying as your thoughts are poorly organized.

I don't feel the same way. Though that would have as much merit as dissing your posts and propping my own.

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Why don't you educate yourself and look for the information rather than asking me to throw it at you. It isn't my place to educate you. Quit being stupid.

I'd love to see you in an actual debate. It'd be hilarious to see the following transpire:

"Bill Cosby actually said something that supports my argument and refutes yours."

"What'd he say?"

"You don't even know? You're stupid!"

"..."

Quote:

Yes, I agree; however, I think that it is quite evident that there is a crisis among the black community. It is more prevalent than other cultures. Also, I think it's quite ironic how you bash me earlier for making a comparison between ethnic groups, yet you are doing the same thing here. Well done.

You were asking me to look at another group of people and regard their situation as far worse as if it alleviates the issue at hand. It doesn't establish any sort of point at all. What were you trying to say? "The Native Americans are committing mass murder?" If you were, there aren't as many Native Americans as Blacks. No, really, what was your point? My comparison had merit, yours was a straw man.

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Did I say the rap music was the exact cause? No, I only said it contributes to the problem. LEARN TO READ!

I'm saying it doesn't contribute, genius. Specifically because it isn't proven conclusively.

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Of course there is a reason. Tell me how my reasoning is flawed.

I have been.

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I see nothing wrong with my reasoning.

That's not saying a lot.

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You are misinterpreting everything I say, and I suggest you slow down and read.

Refuting. Re-fut-ing.

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I never said rap was the only reason.

Wasn't what I was calling you out on.

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I said it is a possibility that it contributes to the problem, considering that's what gangsta rap music is all about, and it's such an issue in the black community. To blame everything exclusively on rap music would be idiocy. Again, quit putting words in my mouth.

You could do that or... you could not blame it at all? There's an idea.

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And other races don't? That's the point I was trying to make by relating them to Native Americans. By your logic, women should be equally compensated for dealing with the same "old prejudices" which have existed for thousands of years. Quit grasping for straws.

About that whole putting words in someone's mouth. There's plenty of racism for all, but blacks are the issue at hand here. Don't get mad at me for sticking to the issue. "It happens to other races, too!" doesn't work because we're not talking about other races, are we? You want to draw comparisons, but you suck at making any comparison that isn't, at best, a distraction.

Those other races have other cultural and historical differences and have responded differently, they've all faced and adapted to these things at varying degrees. You want to go down that road? Be my guest. The way things are going I'll ignore and/or disagree with you every step of the way.

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Ah, the old bigot retort. If I am a racist, does that make Bill Cosby a racist? You know nothing about me so don't even go there. There is an issue in the black community today, according to the statistics I have presented. You are in denial and do a good job at shunning the truth. I never said murder rates were high only because of blacks. Show me where I said that, you will be unsuccessful. Just because my first few posts on the subject were ill-explained isn't an excuse to tell me that I am a racist. I do not believe blacks are solely to blame for the high murder rates; however, I do believe they are a contributing factor.

It's the perception I have of you based off what you're talking about. And, it looks like I'm right. By the way, Bill Cosby? That's self-hatred or disappointment, not racism. Big difference!

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The statistics cannot be ignored, quit being a coward and admit it.

Ah, those non-existent ones for media influence. Right, sure.

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Which is precisely why I said it may be a contributing factor and it is concerning. I said, "maybe", keyword there. Again, learn to read. As I have said before, I am not the only person who believes this way, and I linked you to an article where Bill Cosby feels the same way.

And when I retorted, you began treating it as if it were a bit more than "maybe." You fucking fail, man.

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Obviously, you just suck at interpreting what I say.

Prove it.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Capo

A fact? Oh, really now? According to whom, exactly?

I was referring to my last sentence.
If you can't see that it does influence behavior on any scale, than you're an idiot. I see people doing the "soulja boy" dance all the time.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

People do the soulja boy because they're retards, but soulja boy didn't make them retards, therefore QED you are an idiot.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Tesla

I was referring to my last sentence.
If you can't see that it does influence behavior on any scale, than your an idiot. I see people doing the "soulja boy" dance all the time.

Let me just be sure to quote this before you decide to change anything. It's a shining beacon, a silent shout, proclaiming your downright ignorance, and I'd like to let everyone savor that.

And you really had the gall to call another poster out on his grammar?

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Did I say soulja boy was responsible for making them retards?

I said he has influence. If he had no influence then they wouldn't be doing it, now would they?

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He has about as much influence as Los del Río.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Right, but you haven't shown why we should care about soulja boy's influence. Bad Rap is not a problem that needs to be addressed, it's the society that creates bad rappers like soulja boy, but you continue to insist on beating the Hip Hop stick like the uninformed middle class cracker you are.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Alright that's enough, I admit my defeat. Thread is getting derailed. I'm done flashing my edick around.

OTHER THAN AFRICAN AMERICANS, why is the murder rate so high?

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by Tesla

I was referring to my last sentence.
If you can't see that it does influence behavior on any scale, than you're an idiot. I see people doing the "soulja boy" dance all the time.

You might be onto something here. Last I heard the lyrics to soulja boy had been remixed.

Soulja Boy up in it (OH!)
Watch Me Lean And Watch Me Rock
Super Man Dat (OH!)
Then Watch Me Crank Dat Robocop
Super Fresh, Now Watch Me Jock
Jocking On Them Haterz Man
When I Do Dat Soulja Boy
I Lean To The Left And Stab A Nigga

Tellin you, them darkies are up to something.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Tails

You might be onto something here. Last I heard the lyrics to soulja boy had been remixed.

Soulja Boy up in it (OH!)
Watch Me Lean And Watch Me Rock
Super Man Dat (OH!)
Then Watch Me Crank Dat Robocop
Super Fresh, Now Watch Me Jock
Jocking On Them Haterz Man
When I Do Dat Soulja Boy
I Lean To The Left And Stab A Nigga

Tellin you, them darkies are up to something.

Oh god I lol'd. Well played.

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by Night Phoenix

Because ultimately, American culture is a more violent than other cultures.

What is American culture? Why do you feel its more violent? Do you think countries in Africa like Zimbabwe or Somalia are more peacefull than the US? Why do many of them come to the US at the first chance they get? Could it be that we are more violent so they come?


Not all cultures are equal, the US is a mix of many cultures yet they are all of one.

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by chronicles

Not all cultures are equal, the US is a mix of many cultures yet they are all of one.

No. No they aren't. I'm going to blow your mind.

Are you ready? I mean... really ready? I'm going to blow it.

Right now. Here it comes.

Spoiler:

That whole melting pot thing? Complete and utter
BULLSHIT!

Is it blown? I bet it is.


Look, just because some textbook tells you that America is a melting pot, that doesn't make it true. If America was a melting pot, you would have no problem with embracing a Hispanic population, or a Muslim population, or an Asian population. But guess what? You fucking do. Because it's not a melting pot.

You toss around the word culture like it has some deep, intrinsic meaning but it just doesn't. You can talk all you like about your bullshit philosophy, but at the end of the day, it's just hot air on your part. You've been cutting a swath with this idiocy so far, and it's laughable. You haven't had a coherent, intelligent point since the first post you've made. What are you, 14?

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.