Fascism in America?

I recently watched these films and have begun to really wonder what direction our country has been going to. My sister's husband brought home the dvd and it really got me wanting to go out and start my own research to find out if the documentary has any truth to it. The first one is...

The Obama Deception

YouTube - The Obama Deception Part 1/12

And the second documentary is...

America: Freedom to Fascism

YouTube - America Freedom To Fascism (01of11)

They are pretty lengthy so I'll sum it up (though I highly recommend EVERYONE watch them) The first documentary is about who is really controlling our government and money. When I first saw the opening I thought... Oh great some right wing propaganda crap... but it's really not about that. It focuses on a group called Bilderberg who, for some amazing reason, is able to get together 120 of the most wealthy/powerful people (including politicians) without having any big media coverage. It talks about how the president- whether it's Bush or Obama - left or right - is really just a puppet. It goes deeper into religious overtones... which I think may be exaggerating, but the point made is very interesting.

The second film is about the Fraud that is the IRS. How there is no law that says we have to pay income tax and how the federal reserve is a private entity and why it should be shut down. It then wraps down to who is controlling the government, which they think is the Bankers. It also points out how we are losing our freedoms without noticing it.

So, my question is; what do you think?

For me, I think I would have been one of those people to think "you're crazy" when I quickly glanced over it. But if you actually take the time to watch it or give it a chance it at least raises some questions inside your head. Like, how does the media not cover Bilderberg? I've never trusted big media outlets in the first place, so I guess its no big surprise, but its really a let down. The issue of the IRS is worse! How does this continue to happen? I also don't trust 98% of politicians, but is the government really becoming fascist?

Anyway, what are your opinions if you have seen these movies?

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Let me ask you (although I suspect I know the answer):

Did you bother to independently research any of the claims these oh-so-enlightening films made?

There's nowhere I can't reach.

The media doesn't cover Bilderberg because they OWN the media, man.

Novus ordo seclorum, man. It's as old as the founding fathers.









THIS COUNTRY IS FOUNDED ON LIES

WASHINGTON D.C. IS ALIGNED WITH THE STAR SIRIUS ON THE FOURTH OF JULY

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

ZEIGEIST.COM

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Between this, tea parties and Twitter, America is a pretty wacky place

How ya doing, buddy?

Anyone out there want to explain these tea parties to me

I don't see how protesting wasteful government spending by destroying a lot of tea helps make your point

The only thing I can gather is that people are mad that they have to pay taxes but somehow the whole "without representation" bit seems to not matter anymore

BOO, TAXES

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Their preferred party no longer controls every branch of government; therefore, by definition, democracy has somehow been subverted.

I wish I was just being snarky but there is a significant plurality of wingnuts that are still searching for the elusive evidence of "voter fraud". One day they will prove that ACORN is run entirely by secret alien reptoids and that Obama was born in Norway and then, then!! Everyone will love them again!

FELIPE NO

The country's no more or less fascist than it was for the past 8 years, and it neither is it going to the flipside of full-blown socialism.

I don't get the mentality of people looking for some grand narrative to things, like conspiracies. Life isn't that exciting for the most part, and usually won't be exciting if you're looking for it with such intensity.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Bacon Man

Anyone out there want to explain these tea parties to me

The tea parties have been billed as a grassroots movement by right-wing shills when they've actually been orchestrated by a public relations firm called Freedomworks. Because most people, even Republicans, really don't care that much the tea parties have attracted the whitest, craziest people most disconnected from reality who consider themselves politically active.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Bradylama

Because most people, even Republicans, really don't care that much the tea parties have attracted the whitest, craziest people most disconnected from reality who consider themselves politically active.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Eimin

How there is no law that says we have to pay income tax and how the federal reserve is a private entity and why it should be shut down.

Last I checked, the 16th Amendment to the US Constitution took care of that. Plus there's a law (Internal Revenue Code section 7201) that makes it a criminal offense to not pay income tax. You haven't heard of tax evasion? Wasn't that how they got Al Capone?

I mean, there are some valid arguments against income tax, but please try to pick ones which are based on some facts.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Dullenplain

The country's no more or less fascist than it was for the past 8 years, and it neither is it going to the flipside of full-blown socialism.

Oh, but it has to be. I mean, obviously, President Babykiller is so diametrically opposed to Republicans that he MUST be total socialist.




Must be.





Also Muslim.



Also terrorist.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Bilderberg? Is that like another name for Illuminati?

I was speaking idiomatically.

Of course not

The Bilderbergs are controlled by the Illuminati.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by Bradylama

ZEIGEIST.COM

OH MAN ZEITGEIST! I FUCKING LOVE THAT FLICK!

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Originally Posted by Pangalin

Let me ask you (although I suspect I know the answer):

Did you bother to independently research any of the claims these oh-so-enlightening films made?

Um, if you read my post I said that watching the documentaries prompted me to do my own research to find any truth to them.

The reason I posted this thread in this forum was that I wanted personal opinions. You know to stimulate discussion... in a forum. LOL pretty novel idea. I guess the best you can get in Gamingforce nowadays is sarcastic one liners from the popular crowd. That's definitely not spam.


So you think the documentary is full of shit? Then say so. Did you even watch it before you gave your opinion? Or did you pull from whatever I wrote?

BTW for all of you thinking these videos are exclusively anti-Obama, they aren't. I actually voted for Obama. They dont talk about him being a muslim or where he was born. I guess you can only know that, though, if you actually watch the video.


The most interesting things I've taken from these videos (if anyone is still interested) is group called Bilderberg. Has anyone else heard of them?


Bradylama: To my surprise KRS-1 is actually a big supporter of these activities.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

While it's all fine and good, in most cases, to say "watch before you judge": this is a special case.

What is special about it?

Alex Jones is a crazy person. If you want us to uncritically review your ideas, find someone who isn't a victim of alien rectal probing to present them.

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I dont know much about Alex Jones, so I guess I don't see things from that point of view. All I know is that he hosts a radio show. I've never listened to it. I watched the documentaries with a clean slate, I guess you can say. The second documentary is directed by Aaron Russo, though, he did owe quite a bit of money in back taxes from what I know. One of America Freedom to Fascism's strongest point was the former IRS agent trialed and found not guilty for not filing for his taxes.

I'm not asking anyone to review my ideas. I don't recall claiming them my own. I am just as much skeptical of them as you are. That's why I posted them to talk about them.

If I wanted a pat on the back I would have posted this on Infowars or some other forum that already are ardent supporters of these ideas.

So about that question... Has anyone heard of Bilderberg and what they do? I am very interested to know if anyone has heard of them outside of this documentary. You can't find much about them in the media but I found this article talking about their elusive nature in the media Why isn't the press corps more interested in covering the Bilderberg conference? - By Jack Shafer - Slate Magazine and this one Bilderbergers excite conspiracists - Kenneth P. Vogel - POLITICO.com talking about how the group attracts conspiracy theories, ties with the Obama cabinet, and how Obama might have been at the last meeting when he all of a sudden disappeared on the campaign trail.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Eimin

One of America Freedom to Fascism's strongest point was the former IRS agent trialed and found not guilty for not filing for his taxes.

If you are referring to Joe Banister, he was not indicted for failing to file his taxes. He was indicted for conspiracy to evade taxes when he consulted one of his clients (Walter Thompson) to not file his taxes. While Banister got acquitted from the charge of conspiracy, his client spent time behind bars for the actual crime of evasion. Of interest is the fact that Thompson was also charged with conspiracy, but he too was acquitted.

It would also seem that the IRS is investigating whether Banister failed to file his taxes in 2002, or did so improperly, and he is currently tied up in the courts for this.

Pretty much everything you will hear from the infowars crowd suggesting that people are not legally required to file their taxes is steeped in half truths and convoluted logic.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Eimin

Um, if you read my post I said that watching the documentaries prompted me to do my own research to find any truth to them.

Originally Posted by Eimin

I dont know much about Alex Jones

You are not done yet with your research, young Padawan. While it is good that you are trying to keep an open mind, it is vitally important that you know where your information comes from, as important as the information itself. Would you trust safe sex techniques given from abstinence-only educators? Would you trust advice on how to come out as a gay teenager, if the person giving it believes that homosexuality needs rehabilitation? Would you learn evolution from a creationist standpoint?

I can see this argument coming, so let me just head it off: I'm not trying to give you shit for not knowing who everyone is. It's okay to have never heard of someone before. But, generally speaking, whenever someone talks about politics being in league with a secret organization behind the scenes that controls the actions of such-and-such many groups, that's conspiracy theory. Conspiracy theory generally is bullshit. Tread carefully and do extremely thorough research, above and beyond looking up the red-letter vocab words the film maker gives you.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

While I like Alex and a lot of what he says, I am growing more leery of him as time goes on. He sounds EXTREMELY enamored with the clamor of revolution.

I'd be careful not to take 100 percent of alexjones (or anyone else's) commentary as fact. Some of his commentary holds water while quite a bit of it seems devised with the intent to plant the seed of doubt (or even fear) in the listener to provide an idealogical pivot point for himself and his arguments to germinate. Problem is that a lot of his points aren't capable of being proven or disproven.


There seems to be a LOT of conspiracy theory going on.


For example, Alex has attempted to make the claim (and to paraphrase):

"Bilderberg controls the world, politically... and is the new world order..."

While there is proof that Bilderberg exists, there is little we can do to verify the validity of this statement. (I think Alex counts on this.) On one hand, Bilderberg is comprised of very influential people in many different areas. But how far does the reach of 150 influential people actually extend? Are these truly the owners of the world? I find it very hard to believe that 150 people (no matter how influential) control everything that happens across the board.
Perhaps bilberberg, in Jones' arguments, is not meant to be taken literally, but as a symbolic representation of elite small-group politics across the world- a hypothetical and very small and exclusive group with an agenda to push that we, the common people of the united states (or wherever), have no say in. If this is the case, Alex doesn't differentiate between figurative and literal meaning. This is where I find major issue with Alex Jones. He often speaks his point in such a way that is exceptionally vague to give himself argumentative wiggle room later on. I find him backpedaling at times and changing the wording of previous arguments to cash in on current events. It hurts his credibility, imo.

It is difficult to provide only one side of the information and expect your audience to develop a fully rounded perspective of the bigger picture. I think Alex knows this. Because of this I look at him as unnecessarily manipulative, if not well-meaning. If an argument of something is inherently true, then it just is. You can provide all sides of an argument and not harm your point if there is truth to it.

Another major gripe is that I get the idea that Alex is a fear-monger- that he is just stirring shit up and frightening people with unverifiable statements so that some of his absolutely outlandish predictions might actually come true. Scaring people into a frenzy with misinformation (by telling them that the world's food supply is going to run out at so and so date) is a very old political tradition and Alex seems to understand and implement the psychology behind this with relative ease. Again, if there is inherent truth behind one's points, then there is no need for this type of dishonest behavior.

The thing to ask ourselves about the current situation in our world... should we be scared? Or should we be as scared as Alex believes we should be... Maybe.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Did you really type up that many words about how Alex Jones is crazy?

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

That post was the abridged version.

Wait a minute... are you actually lecturing ME on being long-winded? Ah! You were being ironic.

How ya doing, buddy?

Some things deserve lengthy, thoughtful analysis.

Other things are Alex Jones.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Well, if someone wanted to read a long and pointless anaylsis, there it is.

I am considerate like that.

Jam it back in, in the dark.