[General Discussion] Suikoden Club v7!

Originally Posted by Cetra

Let me see if I can dig up the development list for Suikoden V again. But yes there were two Suikoden teams, the main Suikoden Team and the Suikogaiden team. Most of the Suikogaiden team was brought over to the main team after the mass exodus during the development of III. What was left of the main Suikoden and the Suikogaiden team was then officially merged to work on IV, and finally the team for IV was re-organized and some new people were brought in for V.

Suikogaiden team? Exodus? What is this nonsense you speak of, sir?

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

I remember hearing something about that awhile back...The lead designer quit in the middle of 3 or something of that ilk? Any stray details you can spare, please...

How ya doing, buddy?

I started Suikoden V recently - it's great. This game is so much better than IV. It's definitely one of the top 3 in the series (II and III being my other two favorites).

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by GoldfishX

I remember hearing something about that awhile back...The lead designer quit in the middle of 3 or something of that ilk? Any stray details you can spare, please...

That's just one guy; Yoshitaka Murayama. An exodus involves many people, which I've never heard before.

Also, he actually quit right when they were wrapping up Suikoden III.

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Originally Posted by Generic Badass

That's just one guy; Yoshitaka Murayama. An exodus involves many people, which I've never heard before.

Also, he actually quit right when they were wrapping up Suikoden III.

Him and a bunch of the development team. And he quit when they were just finishing the primary development, but for the most part his work in his position would have normally been finished. Actual coding of the game had not started yet. So they brought in Tomonori Matsugawa, who was the producer of the Suikogaiden to oversee final completion of III.

Also by development team, I'm referring to programmers, artists and modelers. They lost a lot of these types during the late phase of III so the Suikogaiden was used to rebuild the Suikoden Team for IV, that's why people tend to think Suikoden IV was developed by 'the other Suikoden team.' And the team for V was built off the team of IV. They just brought in a new scenario writer (guy from Sky's of Arcadia) and the new art director. The two of them are still with the team so I imagine they will both be working on Suikoden VI.

As the result of all of the shuffling, there aren't two independent Suikoden Teams anymore so as I was saying, I don't think there is a "Suikoden IV" team to work on Suikoden VI at this point. For the most part it will be the same people that made Suikoden V unless they fired/hired people again. I hope that at least makes some sense.

FELIPE NO

This doesn't factor in OZ, which was being developed at the same time as Suikoden IV.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Generic Badass

This doesn't factor in OZ, which was being developed at the same time as Suikoden IV.

Yeah it does. What was left of the Suikoden III team worked on OZ. None of those people are considered to be on the Suikoden team anymore and have not been reinstated to the team for IV or V.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

But you said the "remnants" of the III team were merged with the Suikogaiden team to make the IV team. Now you're saying that no one from the development of III is around, and that the current team is entirely new (made up of Suikogaiden's or whatever)? That doesn't make any sense.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

I gave up on the last boss(suikoden V) ;/

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by rpgcrazied

I gave up on the last boss(suikoden V) ;/

It shouldn't be that hard, Zerase and Levi could take care of it easily if you have Magic Absorb Runes equipped on them, just keep casting level 4 spells (combo if you want) and it should go down. Lyon and Prince's Twilight/Dawn Rune combos deal crazy damage to the boss and heal your entire party, so the battle shouldn't take more than 10 turns to finish.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by rpgcrazied

I gave up on the last boss(suikoden V) ;/

If it helps any, my characters were at level 59-60, and I kept using Zerase's Star rune, Jeane's magic, and the Dawn+Twilight runes whenever my party needed to be healed. Also, I had several Sacrificial Buddhas equipped to each character.

Otherwise, I was able to win the battle by using physical attacks during each turn. The co-op skill involving the Prince and Lyon helped during that battle since their attacks were high.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Generic Badass

But you said the "remnants" of the III team were merged with the Suikogaiden team to make the IV team. Now you're saying that no one from the development of III is around, and that the current team is entirely new (made up of Suikogaiden's or whatever)? That doesn't make any sense.

It does if you understand the common game development process. Development teams can pretty much be broken into the creative staff and the software development staff and much of the time some or all of the creative staff will start a new project before the last one is complete. Here is the basic timeline of Suikoden since III:

Yoshitaka Murayama + some software development staff leaves ->
Tomonori Matsugawa + other software development staff moved in to oversee finish of Suikoden III project ->
Suikoden III released ->
Entire Suikogaiden creative (small) and development staff (large) merged with Suikoden III creative staff (large) and development staff (small) ->
Suikoden IV creative phase project starts ->
Suikoden IV development phase starts + staff size increased ->
Former Suikoden III creative staff leave Suikoden IV project and start OZ project (note this is normal, their work for the most part on the project was complete) Tomonori Matsugawa takes the lead of this project as well as continuing GSIV work->
New development staff established for OZ (maybe some from the Suikoden IV project, who knows)->
Suikoden IV Released ->
OZ Released ->
Suikoden IV staff hires new art director and scenario writer to replace loss of Suikoden III creative staff
Suikoden V starts development ->
Suikoden V released.


I have no idea where the OZ / Suikoden III staff currently is. Are some of them working on VI? Dunno, maybe. But anyway the entire point was a large amount of people that worked on IV also worked on V including the same lead producer which is important. It shows that even though IV seemed to have been a failed experiment, he showed us with V that he has a good understanding of what people loved about Yoshitaka Murayama's Suikoden I-III. I think it also shows that the fears of Suikoden VI "being developed by the Suikoden IV team" isn't anything to worry about at this point.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by rpgcrazied

I gave up on the last boss(suikoden V) ;/

He's not bad...Just make sure you can take magic hits, since he'll use the spinning thing every other turn (and then some). I didn't know what to expect, so I went in with a balanced party (in other words, not one prepared to deal with him). I had my two main fighters (Goesch and Miakis) beat up one of the arms, so I could see what he would do after losing one and sometimes Hero and Lyon would join in with a combo...It was almost worth making him waste turns regenerating them. Bernadette and Zerase were in the back, firing "hit everyone" spells, plus I used a Shield Rune on Lyon and she boosted everyone's magic attack several times (my normal strategy the entire game). I think I swapped Sharmista in for Lyon at some point to get more magic attack attacks in and I also had Viki ready with another offensive spell rune, plus Miakis had an offensive spell rune on her as well that I used, since I wasn't getting combo attacks out of her (don't remeber specifics, since I started my New Game+. I beat him with 5 members alive on the first try.

I had more problems with the Zweig/Georg boss earlier on (the Lyon/Hero bosses were pretty easy). That came down to one all-or-nothing blow, since I had all my weak members in that team (I didn't know I'd need 18+ characters...I had two dragons in that party).

Cetra: Thanks for the info. I would indeed say the new producer was a huge fan of the earlier games.

FELIPE NO

Final Boss Strat

Spoiler:

Sun Rune Incarnation:

Use any formation that puts one person on the very front line with high physical and magical defense. I think I used arrowhead and had Ghalleon up in front.

Fill out the rest of your party with people who can take around 200-250 worth of magic damage each turn.

If you use Miakis, and Kyle they can heal the entire group each turn with the shield rune or flowing rune.

Keep attacking the central boss (ignore the adds) each turn and group heal each time.

Keep this up for around 14,000 hp on central boss and you will win.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Cetra

Yoshitaka Murayama + some software development staff leaves ->
Tomonori Matsugawa + other software development staff moved in to oversee finish of Suikoden III project ->
Suikoden III released ->
Entire Suikogaiden creative (small) and development staff (large) merged with Suikoden III creative staff (large) and development staff (small) ->
Suikoden IV creative phase project starts ->
Suikoden IV development phase starts + staff size increased ->
Former Suikoden III creative staff leave Suikoden IV project and start OZ project (note this is normal, their work for the most part on the project was complete) Tomonori Matsugawa takes the lead of this project as well as continuing GSIV work->
New development staff established for OZ (maybe some from the Suikoden IV project, who knows)->
Suikoden IV Released ->
OZ Released ->
Suikoden IV staff hires new art director and scenario writer to replace loss of Suikoden III creative staff
Suikoden V starts development ->
Suikoden V released.

Some of the times you have listed directly contradict what Junko Kawano has said in the past, so a source for this would be appreciated. A source for this staff exodus would be nice as well, as Murayama's departure is generally thought to've been a personal matter; not some sort of group walk-out.

How ya doing, buddy?

Fun little scare last night with Killey...(are recruitment issues considered spoilers?)

Freed him from Agate Prison, then exited the castle to meet with him, then showed him the ruins, then he leaves. The Brady Games guide says if you do these things PRIOR to the Twilight Forest Ruins, he'll join you. So I think I did something wrong when he ran off and didn't join (even consulted with Oboro, who gleefully reports Killey has apparently disappeared from the planet...:aargh: ). One quick (and desperate) check to Yangxu's (excellent) character FAQ later and I learn he will join AT the Twilight Forest Ruins (as opposed to at your castle) if you've done everything. So I'm still running clear. Thank you Brady Games for making my heart come to a sudden stop.

Other minor scare was when I almost couldn't find the window maker in the Dwarf Camp...That little blue guy is hard to see.

And best part of all at this point was Lun's response to Subala being her "boyfriend". Those two sure didn't hold anything back...Makes fishing all the more fun watching them and Logg going back and forth.

How ya doing, buddy?

Quote:

Other minor scare was when I almost couldn't find the window maker in the Dwarf Camp...That little blue guy is hard to see.

Umm that's Zunda. And she's a woman.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by GoldfishX

Other minor scare was when I almost couldn't find the window maker in the Dwarf Camp...That little blue guy is hard to see.

I didn't have much trouble finding her in the Dwarf Camp. But when I had to figure out which window to show her, that took me a little more time.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Just finished in few mins ago after 95h of playing time. I didn't expect it shouldn't last that long but I put this one on the episodes I& II level of excellency. My dream team was Tiger formation, in the head of the arrow Georg, followed by Richard and Miakis, hero in the middle and Killey and Zerase in the back.
Now what is left to do for the VI is excellent graphics and it'll be the perfect game.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Cobra

Just finished in few mins ago after 95h of playing time. I didn't expect it shouldn't last that long but I put this one on the episodes I& II level of excellency. My dream team was Tiger formation, in the head of the arrow Georg, followed by Richard and Miakis, hero in the middle and Killey and Zerase in the back.
Now what is left to do for the VI is excellent graphics and it'll be the perfect game.

Wow, was that one playthrough or two? I'm 87 into a New Game+ and just reaching the halfway point again.

Yeah, the Tiger formation is my new favorite this time around. It's really versatile and S-characters don't seem to lose a thing in the second row back (despite reading otherwise) I'm trying to use characters I missed the first time or didn't use primarily, so no Goesch, Zerase, Georg or Bernadette this time around...Miakis was my favorite character, so she'll stay and so will Lyon probably (though it's rare for both to be in the party at the same time). Faylen is great with a Power Rune and she can handle magic duties well enough, Shigure is currently in the lead slot (combo-machine), Sagiri is the same deal as Faylen (minus any magic potential) and Roy is a good Mid-Ranger with Magic, plus a combo with the Prince. Plus, I have Viki and Jeanne in the entourage, armed with Lightning/Rage Runes and magic powering orbs when needed (not too useful with auto-battle), plus Zegai (I'm amazed he was a mid-ranger). I'm going to go a little ways and try Belcoot in either Shigure or Roy's spot, since I'll still need about a dozen more battle-ready characters soon. Choices, choices...THIS is why six-man parties are such a great thing.

I'm actually happy with the graphics in this one...The changes I would make for Suikoden VI would be:

-more voice acting...I'm not an advocate for fully-voiced games, but every VA in this game was great and most were only given a few lines. Boz, Toma Fuwalafuwalu, Bernadette, Euram, Guisu, Childerich, Roy, Faylen, even Miakis...They all needed to talk more.
-Maybe go for more cut-scenes, instead of the group-speaking parts...The ones in here were great as is. Again, I'm not a fan of massive amounts of cut-scenes, but if they're going to be the same quality as the Roy one I linked to before or the ones with the Barows clan or the ones near the end...Gimme! There's probably enough here for a 100-episode anime series.
-more dynamic camera shots, especially during battles.
-Make the game harder.
-More military battles. Seriously, these deserve an entire game of their own.
-Maybe button-timed blow during duels.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by GoldfishX

Wow, was that one playthrough or two? I'm 87 into a New Game+ and just reaching the halfway point again.

That was one playthrough, let's just say I took my time.

Considering the organizing part :

Spoiler:

I almost pulled out all my hairs when we have to split characters into 3 teams at Ashtwal Mountains Ruins. Fortunately, your level goes up pretty quick to 60 there, mostly if one of your chara is equipped with the fortune rune -2X exp-. But I had to go back to my HQ to buy some equippement and equip some runes. My three teams were like that :

Team 1 :
Tiger formation
Richard (Swallow Rune/Killer Rune)
Miakis (Cyclone Rune/Magic Absorb Rune/Shiel Rune)
Lorelai (Mother Earth Rune/Drain Rune/Rage Rune)
Hero (Rage Rune/Dawn Rune/Killer Rune)
Zerase (Star Rune/Magic Absorb Rune/Resurrection Rune)
Killey (Flowing Rune/Magic absorb Rune/Thunder Rune)
Support : Marina

Team 2:
Tiger formation
Belcoot (Falcon Rune/Sunbeam Rune)
Nakula (Sleep Rune/Inicorn Rune)
Galleon (Drain Rune/Knight Rune)
Lyon (Sunbeam Rune/Twilight Rune) Unfortunately I didn't use Lyon too much, so her emplacement for the third rune appeared at those ruins when she leveled up =/
Alhazred (Water Rune/Magical Rune/Lightning Rune)
Levi (Rage Rune/Magic Absorb Rune/Flowing Rune)
Support : Haleth

Team 3:
Crane Wing formation
Georg (Killer Rune/Fortune Rune)
Roog (Fire Rune/Drain Rune/Killer Rune)
Rahal (Lightning Rune/Drain Rune/Cyclone Rune)
Zweig (Sunbeam Rune/Mother Earth Rune/Fire Rune)
Kyle (Water Rune/Killer Rune/Shield Rune)
Dinn (Killer Rune/Rage Rune)
Support : Murad

I didn't use Eresh because she already got two equipped runes (Blue Gate Rune and an Resurrection Rune) that cannot be removed, and I never liked Blue Gate Rune (damage to your party). Same goes for Jeanne and Viki.

Originally Posted by GoldfishX

-more voice acting...I'm not an advocate for fully-voiced games, but every VA in this game was great and most were only given a few lines. Boz, Toma Fuwalafuwalu, Bernadette, Euram, Guisu, Childerich, Roy, Faylen, even Miakis...They all needed to talk more.
-Maybe go for more cut-scenes, instead of the group-speaking parts...The ones in here were great as is. Again, I'm not a fan of massive amounts of cut-scenes, but if they're going to be the same quality as the Roy one I linked to before or the ones with the Barows clan or the ones near the end...Gimme! There's probably enough here for a 100-episode anime series.
-more dynamic camera shots, especially during battles.
-Make the game harder.
-More military battles. Seriously, these deserve an entire game of their own.
-Maybe button-timed blow during duels.

The graphics were ok for me too, I only need a little bit more eye candy and less monotonous backgrounds. If they keep this 3D isometric view in the next game, I'd prefer it too look like Tales of Legendia or instance, colorful and detailed graphics. I would also like that they do something bout the (unecessary) loading screens...
I agree about a strategy game of its own, this should be a really nice addition to the rich universe of Suikoden.

FELIPE NO

I'm in love with Moroon w/ Crazed Orb, Nikea with Boar Rune and her critical hit skills maxed out (2500-3000 damage per shot) and Faylen/Urda w/Double Edge Orb and Power Orb (plus Jizos...will probably need to change these for the final encounter, but it cleans up random encounters nicely). I alternated Shigure with Nikea, since I already maxed out Shigure's combo and attack skills...Moroon is very similar (good power, lot's of combos) and I dig him for the music change and its' just cool having a beaver in the party. Too bad Faylen and Urda only have 1 extra skills slot.

Richard is almost...cheap. I used him as soon as I got him and he just did pretty much everything right (similar to Georg and Zerase). He's not that interesting a character, so I figured I'd just rather use Moroon instead. It's fun creating good, wacky teams that kick some ass...That's always been the best part of any Suikoden game, late in the game with so many characters to play around with (I remember using Shiro/Kinnison and Hix/Tengaar in Suikoden 2). This game seriously needed an uber-tough bonus dungeon. I almost want to use Byakuren, but I don't want to give up two slots.

At this rate, I should have 18 characters prime to go for the final. And if all else fails, I have Viki, Jeane, Nelis and Norma lined up with all of my major attack-magic runes in the entourage.

How ya doing, buddy?

Well, cronies, I just finished Sukoden Tactics, and I have to say, not overly impressed. The game itself was fun, but the ending was fairly lack-luster. I never enjoy perma-death, and a lot of the sidequests were just boring as hell (Trek through the Obel Ruins a hundred times to get eggs, k?) I hope V is substantially better. I'm off to that, now.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Denicalis

Well, cronies, I just finished Sukoden Tactics, and I have to say, not overly impressed. The game itself was fun, but the ending was fairly lack-luster. I never enjoy perma-death, and a lot of the sidequests were just boring as hell (Trek through the Obel Ruins a hundred times to get eggs, k?) I hope V is substantially better. I'm off to that, now.

Suikoden V is great. The biggest problem you may encounter is that it takes a good 5-7 hours before the story really starts to pick up. I didn't mind this as it felt like I was just enjoying a chapter of my favorite book in the evenings for an hour or two before I would go to bed. But Game Informer made it out to sound like it was the most boring experience that they were ever forced to play through (one reason why I take magazine reviews with a grain of salt when I know the game is good). Just give it time, and once five's story really kicks in you'll be having a blast

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Originally Posted by Kaelin

Suikoden V is great. The biggest problem you may encounter is that it takes a good 5-7 hours before the story really starts to pick up. I didn't mind this as it felt like I was just enjoying a chapter of my favorite book in the evenings for an hour or two before I would go to bed. But Game Informer made it out to sound like it was the most boring experience that they were ever forced to play through (one reason why I take magazine reviews with a grain of salt when I know the game is good). Just give it time, and once five's story really kicks in you'll be having a blast

Let's also not forgot: Game Informer also spent half of that very review comparing Suikoden 5 to Final Fantasy VII. I'm sure anyone looking for good S5 info was thrilled about reading a review that was 50 percent talking about FFVII and 25 percent whining about how long the first couple of hours were.

I loved most of the intro (ESPECIALLY the Barrows intro scene...I would love to see that one Youtubed) but the second half of the Sacred Games and the events right after that kind of dragged on before...BAM! The good stuff hits. Oh well, at least Logg and Lun were entertaining enough. I think I enjoyed them more than any of the mindless zombies I've seen in S4 thus far...

Heh...(thinking out loud)

Lun: "Geez pop, this game really sucks."
Logg: "Hahaha, yer old man's gonna make this game a lot more excitin'...Hold on everyone!"
+99 Speed Boost for the Boat from Suikoden IV.
Whole S4 Cast: "Ugh...(barf)"
Lun: "Nice goin', pop, you dumb-ass. You made 'em all seasick and stuff!"
Logg: "S'all right...Most of 'em look constipidated anywho! Specially that hero guy..."

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