Remember When the Commies Were Godless?

I guess, technically, they still are.

China Regulates Buddhist Reincarnation - Newsweek Beliefs - MSNBC.com

Quote:

In one of history's more absurd acts of totalitarianism, China has banned Buddhist monks in Tibet from reincarnating without government permission. According to a statement issued by the State Administration for Religious Affairs, the law, which goes into effect next month and strictly stipulates the procedures by which one is to reincarnate, is "an important move to institutionalize management of reincarnation." But beyond the irony lies China's true motive: to cut off the influence of the Dalai Lama, Tibet's exiled spiritual and political leader, and to quell the region's Buddhist religious establishment more than 50 years after China invaded the small Himalayan country. By barring any Buddhist monk living outside China from seeking reincarnation, the law effectively gives Chinese authorities the power to choose the next Dalai Lama, whose soul, by tradition, is reborn as a new human to continue the work of relieving suffering.

Ah well. The Dalai Lama's an asshole anyways.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Poor Tibet. Must be tough seeing your ancestral civilization ruined in ~50 years, along with the systematical rape of your culture.

Guess that's what you get for having a peaceful religion based on reason. Muslims wouldnt take it so easily.

I saw a fat American dude eating on the Sorbonnes place the other day, which is a symbolic location to the extreme left Parisian youth. He was wearing a t-shirt saying "COMMIES ARENT COOL" with Che's face in a red forbidden sign.

I almost disturbed him to shake his hand. =')

There's nowhere I can't reach.

But according to Buddhism, everyone reincarnates as something, not just monks. Does that mean you need permission to die in China now? Could the Dalai Lama not just renounce his monkhood on his deathbed or something?

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This is the actual translation of the law itself. I had translated about 4 articles from the original text myself before I came across this. What a waste of time

Quote:

State Religious Affairs Bureau Order

Order No. Five

These “Management measures for the reincarnation of living Buddhas in Tibetan Buddhism” were passed at the administrative affairs conference of the State Administration of Religious Affairs on July 13, 2007, and will be implemented on September 1, 2007.

Bureau Director, Ye Xiaowen

July 18, 2007


Article 1: These measures have been formulated in accordance with the “Regulations on Religious Affairs” in order to guarantee citizens’ freedom of religious belief, to respect Tibetan Buddhism’s practice of inheriting living Buddha positions, and to regulate the management of living Buddha reincarnation affairs.

Article 2: Reincarnating living Buddhas should respect and protect the principles of the unification of the state, protecting the unity of the minorities, protecting religious concord and social harmony, and protecting the normal order of Tibetan Buddhism.

Reincarnating living Buddhas should respect the religious rituals and historically established systems of Tibetan Buddhism, but may not re-establish feudal privileges which have already been abolished.

Reincarnating living Buddhas shall not be interfered with or be under the dominion of any foreign organization or individual.

Article 3: Reincarnating living Buddhas should have the following conditions:
(1) A majority of local religious believers and the monastery management organization must request the reincarnation;
(2) The inheritance lineage should be real and have continued to the present day;
(3) The monastery applying for the living Buddha reincarnation must be the monastery at which the living Buddha monk is registered, it must be registered as a Tibetan Buddhist place of religious activity, and it must have the ability to train and raise living Buddhas.

Article 4: Applicants to be reincarnating living Buddhas who have any of the following conditions may not be reincarnated:
(1) Reincarnations which are not regulated by the religious doctrine of Tibetan Buddhism;
(2) Those in city-level people’s governments and above with delineated districts, which ordered no reincarnations to be permitted.

Article 5: Reincarnating living Buddhas should carry out application and approval procedures. The application and approval procedure is: the management organization at the monastery applying for the living Buddha reincarnation where the monk is registered, or the local Buddhist Association, should submit applications for reincarnations to the local religious affairs departments at the level of people’s government above county-level; once the people’s government above county-level has made suggestions, the people’s government religious affairs department reports upwards, and examination and approval shall be made by the provincial or autonomous regional people’s government religious affairs department. Living Buddha reincarnations who have a relatively large impact shall be reported to the provincial or autonomous regional people’s government for approval; those with a great impact shall be reported to the State Administration for Religious Affairs for approval; those with a particularly great impact shall be reported to the State Council for approval.

Verification and authorization of the living Buddha application should solicit the opinions of the corresponding Buddhist Association.

Article 6: When there is debate over the size of a living Buddha’s impact, the China Buddhist Association shall officiate, and report to the State Administration of Religious Affairs to be put on the record.

Article 7: Once an application for a living Buddha’s reincarnation has received approval, depending on the size of the living Buddha’s impact, the corresponding Buddhist Association shall establish a reincarnation guidance team; the management organization at the monastery where the living Buddha is registered, or the corresponding Buddhist Association, shall establish a search team to look for the reincarnate soul child, and search affairs shall be carried out under the leadership of the guidance team.

The reincarnate soul child shall be recognized by the provincial or autonomous regional Buddhist Association or the China Buddhist Association in accordance with religious rituals and historically established systems.

No group or individual may without authorization carry out any activities related to searching for or recognizing reincarnating living Buddha soul children.

Article 8: Living Buddhas which have historically been recognized by drawing lots from the golden urn shall have their reincarnating soul children recognized by drawing lots from the golden urn.
Requests not to use drawing lots from the golden urn shall be reported by the provincial or autonomous regional people’s government religious affairs departments to the State Administration of Religious Affairs for approval; cases with a particularly large impact shall be reported to the State Council for approval.

Article 9: Once a reincarnating living Buddha soul child has been recognized, it shall be reported the provincial or autonomous regional people’s government religious affairs department for approval; those with a great impact shall be reported to the State Administration for Religious Affairs for approval; those with a particularly great impact shall be reported to the State Council for approval.

Reincarnating living Buddhas who have been approved by the provincial or autonomous regional people’s government religious affairs departments or by the autonomous regional people’s government shall be reported to the State Administration of Religious Affairs to be put on record.

Article 10: When the reincarnating living Buddha is installed, a representative of the approving authority shall read out the documents of approval, and the corresponding Buddhist Association shall issue a living Buddha permit.

Living Buddha permits shall uniformly be issued by the China Buddhist Association and reported to the State Administration of Religious Affairs to be put on record.

Article 11: Persons and units who are responsible for being in contravention of these measures and who without authority carry out living Buddha reincarnation affairs, shall be dealt administrative sanction by the people’s government religious affairs departments in accordance with stipulations in the “Regulations on Religious Affairs”; when a crime has been constituted, criminal responsibility shall be pursued.

Article 12: When the reincarnating living Buddha has been installed the management organization at the monastery where he is registered shall formulate a training plan, recommend a scripture teacher, and submit the plan to the local Buddhist Association, which shall report upward to the provincial or autonomous regional people’s government religious affairs department for approval.

Article 13: Provinces and autonomous regions which are involved in affairs of reincarnating living Buddhas may formulate and implement detailed measures in accordance these measures, and report them to the State Administration of Religious Affairs to be put on record.

Article 14: These measures shall be implemented from September 1, 2007.

The local papers (I'm in China right now) have barely even mentioned it. I WONDER WHY

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There are few things as scary as coherently organized absurdity.

I was speaking idiomatically.

"Oops sorry, died unexpectedly, didn't get a chance to apply for reincarnation permission. Didn't get a chance to form a reincarnation guidance team."

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by niki

There are few things as scary as coherently organized absurdity.

Funny, for a moment I thought that statement was regarding organized religion

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by Bigblah

Funny, for a moment I thought that statement was regarding organized religion

Heh, I guess that's something those crazy atheist militants could say, yes.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

I wonder, how could someone ban others from reincarnating (if this does happen)? Go to hell or heaven, complain to the reincarnation's receptionist, force a deal, and sue them if the deal's broken?



And,

Originally Posted by Shin

But according to Buddhism, everyone reincarnates as something, not just monks. Does that mean you need permission to die in China now? Could the Dalai Lama not just renounce his monkhood on his deathbed or something?

Yes, people can't choose who will they be when they're reborn.

This whole thing is a strange absurdity.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

GFF members arguing on the presupposition that reincarnation is real? Man, where did all the Richard Dawkins fanboys go?

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Damnit Blah, I wasted 20 minutes looking for a screen cap from that episode of South Park where Miss Garrison is getting fucked up the ass by Richard Dawkins.
I was going to do a "Richard Dawkins is fucking gay, that's where they went" comment but...DAMNIT WHERE IS THAT SCREENCAP.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Quote:

China has banned Buddhist monks in Tibet from reincarnating without government permission.

This is so wrong, its funny. I don't even know where to begin with this...this is really to absurd to imagine, let alone comment on. There is fundamentally no proof that there is reincarnation and the chinese government PROBABLY realizes this. The Chinese government wants to lower the quality of life for Tibetan monks on a psychological and spiritual level. Make no mistake though, this is psychological warfare, not spiritual.

At any rate, this is retarded. The chinese government does not have any headway here, nor can they provide any such law that gives them the right to decide whether or not reincarnation takes place regardless.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Um, read the first post. China's motive is to control the selection of successive Living Buddhas, who are extremely important and influential spiritual (and possibly political) leaders in Tibetan society.

This law essentially preserves the traditional Tibetan selection process, but now every step has to be reported and approved. And the Chinese government has veto power, so to speak. It's no different from what they've implemented with other state-approved major religions.

I was speaking idiomatically.

How many Popes has China hand-picked?

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

That'll come when China annexes Vatican City.

FELIPE NO

They all laughed at the Chinese Bankers, but look at 'em now!

I guess though, there's nothing stopping the Party from declaring the Pope illegitimate and claiming their own representative as the true Party-sanctioned Pope.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?