Song of the Week - WEEK 63 Voting/WEEK 64 Nominating

I'm almost fine with a BoT nomination...Source material aside, 8/10 songs from that album would fill out my #8/Song of the Weak slot very nicely. One of only a handful of albums I legitimately love to hate.

I love 3rd Gig myself...Only a couple tracks that are kind of "eh" (the two piano ones), but the rest is pure Mintjam fun in "mainstream" format, since a number of featured tracks are VERY well-known (Chrono Corridor, FF7 Main Battle, Theme of Love, Coin of Fate). I'm not at all familiar with FFA/SD1, but the arrangement on there is one of the best tracks, no doubt...Just a notch below the FF7 Main Battle arrange.

Let it in...I'm almost tempted to say as long as it's not FF1-11, Xeno-something or Chrono-something or a big-time individual classic (I think we refused Ducktales "The Moon" for submission before) or something that has gotten massive exposure in a previous contest here (Moon Over the Castle would be an example), it's fine...In fact, I'm pretty sure I DID say that many moons ago. In any case, if something is too well-known, the voters generally let it be known anyway. As long as we don't have a line of drooling fanboys slobbering over everything and skewing the voting, I'm generally fine with most anything.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Er, I'm not very sure what to make of the Seiken Densetsu nomination. I guess it should be okay because the arrangement itself isn't exactly so well known that it pops to mind when someone mentions FFA. It would be a problem if it were from the original soundtrack itself, though. I seriously do not think Brink of Time should be eligible. It might have its detractors but it really is much too well known. It's like trying to nominate something from Xenogears: Creid.

And I just uploaded "Shadowland Battle Music (Remix)" to the SotW ftp. Hopefully, votes for this week will follow soon.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by CHz

Brink of Time absolutely not, since that's in no way an obscure album in itself. Likewise, no to either of the Black Mages albums and the FF Piano Collections.

I'm not hip to the obscurity of GG albums, but I'd say that GGXX SA is probably also too well known.

But see, you're just saying that, like I was. I could conduct a poll as well asking "Who's heard Sound Alive?" and the results would likely be comparable to the number of people who've heard 3rd GIG. And I myself had never listened to Brink of Time before today (and have heard *of* but never actually *heard* Creid before). Likewise, I think you overestimate how many people have actually gone through the FF Piano and Vocal Collections (not that I would ever nominate anything from those albums). If you're just assuming they're "well-known", what's to stop me from saying the same for Seiken and/or MintJam?

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

You have a point in that people can only really have a vague idea what nobody has ever heard of before and what most of us are familiar with stemming off of one's own knowledge. But that's why we have polls for anything questionable. If you'd like to call for one for CHz's nom due to the FF association, I think that's valid. Pointing a finger at Phantom Brave is a little bit flimsy, I personally would like to see some other people in agreement* before we hold a trial on that one.

According to Dictionary.com, the word agreeance is "considered obsolete and a bastardization of agreement." I've always used agreeance. Learn something new everyday.

I was speaking idiomatically.

EDIT: Dr. Uzuki made my point in about 30000 less words.

Originally Posted by Dhsu

But see, you're just saying that, like I was. I could conduct a poll as well asking "Who's heard Sound Alive?" and the results would likely be comparable to the number of people who've heard 3rd GIG.

If so, then it'd be eligible, providing 3rd GIG is. The way I figured, since it's one of only two GG albums that I've actually heard and have, it's likely that a goodly number of other people have heard it too because I'm particularly unversed in fighting game soundtracks. But if that's not the case, by all means go ahead and nominate something from it. It's a very good album.

And of course I'm just saying that. Without polls, there's no reasonable way I can possibly know everyone's opinion on an album's obscurity. That's why my decisions aren't final and polls exist in the first place:

Originally Posted by Nomination rule #2

Questions on eligibility in regards to this restriction will be answered on a per-song basis by Staff, with strong aid from the general consensus here.

(emphasis added)

Originally Posted by Dhsu

And I myself had never listened to Brink of Time before today (and have heard *of* but never actually *heard* Creid before).

Same situation with me and Creid, actually. I really have no idea on the eligibility on that one. In fairness, we've had not one, not two, but THREE tracks from Xenosaga II: lamentation and communication breakdown (<3) from the Movie Scene ST and Final Battle from the rip. So maybe it would be eligible, who knows.

Of course, it's not just one person's experiences that determines eligibility. I've never played nor heard the soundtrack to FFIV (it's shameful, I know ), but I'd say there's a fairly good chance any nomination from the game would be shot down exceedingly quickly.

I've heard Brink of Time, but that's not why I don't think it should be eligible; I think it shouldn't be here because I've always thought that it's a high profile arrange album that many people have heard. If that's not the case, then it's eligible.

And to cut this one off at the pass, yes, I'm basing my opinion of GGXX SA solely on the fact that I have it, but as I said, I don't know about its obscurity, so that's all I have to go on. If I'm right, I'm right. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. That's why other people's opinions matter.

Originally Posted by Dhsu

Likewise, I think you overestimate how many people have actually gone through the FF Piano and Vocal Collections (not that I would ever nominate anything from those albums). If you're just assuming they're "well-known", what's to stop me from saying the same for Seiken and/or MintJam?

That's exactly what we've been doing: assuming. I assume many people have heard FFIV's soundtrack, but this might not be true. I assume many people have heard Brink of Time, but this might not be true. Hence the purpose of debate: to find everyone's opinion and figure out exactly what should and shouldn't be allowed. I don't pretend to be omniscient, far from it; since I'm lazy, I'd actually prefer to dump eligibility decisions on the masses than give up precious seconds of my time I could be using to replay Metroid Fusion. If enough people think my MintJam nomination is ineligible, I'll change it. It's really as simple as that.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

[opinions=GoldfishX]Sound Alive-No problems with...We've allowed Guilty Gear tracks before. You wouldn't know it, since they never won anything, but they have showed up before. I'm not sure how much penetration the music has, outside of its' direct fans... Its' popularity seems to have hit something of a slump overall.

The 3rd Gig Nom-No problem...I'm unfamiliar with SD1/FFA music and it's from a doujin album, which needs exposure as is. However, I would agree some of the more known tracks from this album (FF7 Battle, Chrono Corridor) should not be eligible, as I know both have their individual following. And remember that Square basically wanted to improve sales in the US of the game, so they mislabeled their Game Boy games with the Final Fantasy name (sort of like how FF: Crystal Chronicles would be better off as a Mana game, but the 'Mana' name wouldn't sell as many copies...For that reason, I wouldn't oppose a CC nom either, as unlikely as I'd be to vote for one).

BoT-I, personally, don't have a problem with this one (for reasons stated before). But this is the official arrange album for one of the most famous (and somewhat overrated) game soundtracks in existence...It's downright easy to find its' existence and buy/download it (most people I talked to said this was among the first VGM CD's they've actually bought). I would probably vote 'No', were this to come to a poll.

FF arranges-vocal, Black Mages, etc: Same deal...Most people familiar with the games who have heard the original soundtracks should take a good healthy look on Game Music Revolution and more than likely, they'd be out to get these on their own. Again, vote of 'No'.

[/opinions]

FELIPE NO

I don't have a huge problem with the 3rd Gig album. Obscurity is relative and I think sometimes we forget to examine the larger picture. Since SotW is filled with VGM enthusiasts, it's very likely that any Seiken Densetsu arrangements will maintain a higher than normal profile, if only due to participants being immersed in the general subject matter.

But to the average video game player, would they know such a thing exists? I doubt it. I tend to feel that almost all arrangements fall into the realm of general obscurity and doujins especially so.

As long as the nominated arrangement isn't covering a phenomenally well-known tune (for example, I'd never, ever condone an arrangement of Liberi Fatali, no matter how obscure the album), then I don't see any major problems.

We ran into this with Suikoden, and it seems that the Suikoden clause is becoming the standard by which these things are judged. The familiarity of the source material doesn't always indicate wide recognition of the music.

I recently came across an arrangement of an unused track from Mega Man 5. It's pretty snazzy. But the original chiptune was never included in the final game. It was only resurrected for to be an interesting addition to the official arranged album. To me, this is pretty freakin' obscure. But would everyone discard the nomination just because Mega Man 5 is one the NES's hallmark titles?

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Most people wouldn't consider Mega Man 5 one of the NES's hallmark titles. In fact, most people I don't think have ever bothered with it (Despiite it being the best one,) so i think it's be OK.

For my nom after the Suikoden track, would Mother 2/Earthbound be too well known you think? I saw the other Mother track, but (I think) that was from Mother 1.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

I'm kinda borderline on EB...it's a fairly well-known soundtrack, but according to precedent, it seems that as long as SotW voters aren't familiar with it, it's a go. Although, right now no particular track on the OST is coming to mind that would have much of a chance of winning.

Originally Posted by Crash Landon

As long as the nominated arrangement isn't covering a phenomenally well-known tune (for example, I'd never, ever condone an arrangement of Liberi Fatali, no matter how obscure the album), then I don't see any major problems.

And I think this is my main issue with the current interpretation of the rules. If someone nominated a Liberi Fatali arrangement, they could just invoke the "Chocobo's Happy Christmas" clause again. Combined with the "Hanjuku Hero" clause, the arranger could be well-known too. So both the artist AND the source material could be famous, but as long as SotW voters haven't heard them together, it's completely eligible? Oh by the way, here's my next nomination!

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Aiya, if there's no consensus or no clear cut resolution with current discussions, put the controversial nomination to the poll test and see if it passes. If it does, well and good. If not, then it's just as well.

And on to voting! Incredibly tough week, though.

(1 point) TimeSplitters (Game Rip) - 1970 Chinese
For some reason, I can't help but think of Hong Kong when I listen to this. And Chinese junks. But I must say the track gets better and better as it progresses. Very nicely put together. While the track might be a bit generic as oriental tracks go, "1970 Chinese" pulls off its orientalism rather well. Trust me, I've heard much, much worse.

(1 point) Dune Spice Opera - Exxos - Revelation
"Wake Up" is not ambient trash. But that's just my opinion. :P Might get slammed for saying this but I like "Wake Up" a touch more. However, "Revelation" is seriously very good as well, as with most other tracks from the album. I might have considered nominating "Revelation" myself at some point owing to its sublime melody and presentation. The last bit is particularly neat. In any case, THE SPICE MUST FLOW...

(1 point) CRISS CROSS ~ CROSS CHANNEL Soundtrack Arrange Version - Airwaves
Fun, fun, fun. That's what "Airwaves" is all about (I think). Plus points for being refreshing. Er, wait, I ran out of points. Bummer.

(1 point) Enthusia Professional Racing Original Soundtrack - Running To Horizon [OCEAN BRIDGE]
Fun: check. Upbeat: check. Great melody: check. High groove factor: check. Point: check.

(1 point) MechWarrior 2 - 31st Century Combat (Red Book Audio) - Track 08
Yikes, I never thought I'd see another MW2 nomination. This one is very sweet and hits all the right notes for me. It starts off fairly deceptive but it's terrific past the 30s mark. I do like the first track on the red book audio more, though. Unfortunately, I think it didn't too well last time it was nominated.

(1 point) REMASTERED TRACKS ROCKMAN ZERO Physis - Esperanto
Oh no. Will I run out of points?! This is very nice and refreshing. Love the instrumentation and melody. But I find it a bit strange for the track to be named after an invented language.

And the rest...

Transformation - Mahou Shoujo Ai 2 Full Arrange Album - title arrange 'difference for you'
You know, if I had 8 points to spare, this would get a point, too. Haven't heard electronica like this for a while now and I've to admit I like it quite a lot. But the fun tracks were too good to pass up.

Uncharted Waters Online (Game Rip) - South african ocean
Also point worthy. But I ran out of points. Why is this week so good??? The song's strong sense of adventure was a big draw for me and the vocals were a nice touch, very much in keeping with what I'd expect from pseudo-African tracks.

Nice. Week 63 is turning out to be one of my favourite weeks.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Dhsu

And I think this is my main issue with the current interpretation of the rules. If someone nominated a Liberi Fatali arrangement, they could just invoke the "Chocobo's Happy Christmas" clause again. Combined with the "Hanjuku Hero" clause, the arranger could be well-known too. So both the artist AND the source material could be famous, but as long as SotW voters haven't heard them together, it's completely eligible? Oh by the way, here's my next nomination!

Bastard stole my nom!

We rejected an arrangement of a Super Metroid track a while ago, while we accepted that Wind Waker arrangement. The rules have been very patchy regarding arrangements of popular tracks.

Personally, I think it should be judged on a case by case basis on the criteria that the arrangement has to be significant and not rely on the original, based loosely on the OCReMix rules.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Haha, you can go ahead and have the nom. I wasn't (entirely) serious about it, and it'll leave me free to nominate something else.

I was speaking idiomatically.

My next nom:

Album: beatmania II DX 5th Style Original Soundtracks
Title: The Cube
Track Number: 02
Composer: DJ SUWAMI
Catalog Number: KMCA-106
Year: 2001
Source: http://www.chudahs-corner.com/soundt...talog=KMCA-106

It was my #2 nom for BSC, so it will most likely be in that contest. Depending on how it does and how soon it comes up in SotW, it may be considered ineligible for SotW. I have another nom ready if that happens.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by KyleDunamis

For my nom after the Suikoden track, would Mother 2/Earthbound be too well known you think? I saw the other Mother track, but (I think) that was from Mother 1.

Yeah, we've had two Mother 1 arrrangements, that and Wisdom of the World from Week 44.

Mother 2 is borderline, but I could see this being acceptable, possibly depending on the track. I remember Fourside was in last year's BSC, although if I remember correctly it didn't make it past the first round.

Just as well, since the OST version sucks.

Originally Posted by Dhsu

And I think this is my main issue with the current interpretation of the rules. If someone nominated a Liberi Fatali arrangement, they could just invoke the "Chocobo's Happy Christmas" clause again. Combined with the "Hanjuku Hero" clause, the arranger could be well-known too. So both the artist AND the source material could be famous, but as long as SotW voters haven't heard them together, it's completely eligible?

Yes, that's exactly how the precedents work. There has been some other resistance to the Chocobo's Happy Christmas precedent besides yours though, most notably the giant amount of flak I took for the Dragon Roost arrange that TCK mentioned.

I'm just administering the precedent. If enough people think it should be changed, then tell me for Chrissake. Some people have shown an interest in rejecting arrangements of at least extremely well-known themes, but this sort of thing rarely comes up so this is the first major discussion we've had about it.

I don't see why you're so hung up on the composer, though. Should Revolter be denied because it was composed by Sakimoto? Or DynamiTracer because Uematsu wrote it? (Not that I think anything from DynamiTracer would do particularly well here at all. ) Sure, being written by a high profile composer increases the song's chances of being heard, but if people haven't heard it, let it in.

Originally Posted by Dhsu

Oh by the way, here's my next nomination!

If people haven't heard it, let it in.

FELIPE NO

I suppose I'd better weigh in on the eligibility discussion that's broken out

The more people talk, the more I think that using precedents as an instant win/override is a bad idea. Case in point: using the "Chocobo's Happy Christmas" track to retroactively allow any track composed by anyone, anywhere, ever (I'm exaggerating a bit, but that's what is seems like )

The point of SoTW isn't to interpret the rules in such a way as to allow your favorite track to slide in on a technicality. Just because a nomination made it to voting doesn't mean it should have; lord knows I don't comb through the queue looking for noms to shoot down.

Much as I love them, I simply can't see Earthbound or Soule's "Squaresoft Variations" being in the spirit of obscurity. [/mytwocents]

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Dhsu

here's my next nomination!

Negative.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

This is the kind of week I like. Real hard to make choices.

HAHAHA.

2 points for Airwaves
This song was.. really impressive, and kept me glued to it for quite a while.

2 points for South African Ocean
Dunno what's with this song that keeps me listening to it over and over again...

2 points for title arrange 'difference for you'
Techno? Pretty nice beat to it too.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Kaleb.G

Negative.

Not so fast, Kaleb! I play the Chocobo's Happy Christmas card in defense mode and combine it with my Jet Black Hatred magic card! You've also triggered the SotW Precedent trap card I had face-down, which strikes Nomination Rule's weak point for massive damage! Sorry, but my life points nomination is quite safe!

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Dhsu

Not so fast, Kaleb! I play the Chocobo's Happy Christmas card in defense mode and combine it with my Jet Black Hatred magic card! You've also triggered the SotW Precedent trap card I had face-down, which strikes Nomination Rule's weak point for massive damage! Sorry, but my life points nomination is quite safe!

Aha! Playing your Jet Black Hatred has activated my I'm A SotW Staff Member trap card! Surely I have you on the ropes now!

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

(3 points) Uncharted Waters Online (Game Rip) - South African Ocean: The sax is a little over the top, but that's a nitpicking misstep. Love the choral work, sedate and alluring enough to feel like a movie -- I'm exploring the coast as the camera zooms out, myself lost in the expansive view of never-ending blue and sand. Strong stuff.

(2 points) Enthusia Professional Racing Original Soundtrack - Running To Horizon [OCEAN BRIDGE]: Very fun. Noodling guitar is always a plus, and the big brass is actually one time I enjoy it being a little over-the-top.

(1 point) Dune Spice Opera - Exxos - Revelation: I like Wake Up a little better, but this has its own strengths. It's a little more down-tempo, a tad more mysterious.

Everything else was enjoyable. Couldn't find one track I thought was an absolute waste.

I was speaking idiomatically.

I'm nominating:

Album Title: Hunks Work Shop! Original Sound Track
Track Title: Bonus Track
Composer: Shinji Hosoe, Ayako Saso
Disc Number: 1 (of 1)
Track Number: 27
Catalog Number: SRIN-1021
Year: 2005

Originally obtained through #gamemp3s
Memory refreshed on album from:
http://www.chudahs-corner.com/soundt...alog=SRIN-1021

I'm a huge fan of how this song is solid electronica, but also uses not just human voice, but whistling. There's a nice sense of playfulness here, yet it doesn't lose grip on its musical message either. This song has had some serious longevity in my playlist and I find it endlessly addictive. "Classic Hosoe", you might say, from one of his more obscure titles.

I uploaded it to my site, so you can download it here:
Hunks Work Shop! Original Sound Track - Bonus Track.mp3

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Quote:

The more people talk, the more I think that using precedents as an instant win/override is a bad idea. Case in point: using the "Chocobo's Happy Christmas" track to retroactively allow any track composed by anyone, anywhere, ever (I'm exaggerating a bit, but that's what is seems like )

The point of SoTW isn't to interpret the rules in such a way as to allow your favorite track to slide in on a technicality. Just because a nomination made it to voting doesn't mean it should have; lord knows I don't comb through the queue looking for noms to shoot down.

Maybe while you're hiring for SotW, you can hire a couple of "lawyers" to argue for ana dgainst disputed tracks getting in. :biggrin:

FELIPE NO

Hope this isn't too well known...

Album: Dynasty Warriors 4 Original Soundtrack
Title: Eve
Track Number: 18
Composer: ???
Catalog No.: KECH-1233
Year: 2003
Source: http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/detailview.html?KEY=KECH-1233

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by Dhsu

I play the Chocobo's Happy Christmas card in defense mode and combine it with my Jet Black Hatred magic card!

First off, "Jet Black Hatred" was from HH3D, which is definitely not popular. I don't think the fact that Uematsu composed it should account for much.

Second, I didn't fully agree with "Chocobo's Happy Christmas", but other people seemed not to mind it. Furthermore, I think the amount of arrangement Hamauzu did to it was substantial enough for it to be relieved of the fact that it's the Chocobo Theme.

Finally, Soule's arrangement of "Tina" has far less originality. To add to that, there has already been tons of exposure to it at OCR, here, and other places.

QED

Double Post:
And SotW Precedent isn't flawless because times change and rules are refined. Also, many things are entirely subjective. This isn't the SCOTUS.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by KyleDunamis

Maybe while you're hiring for SotW, you can hire a couple of "lawyers" to argue for ana dgainst disputed tracks getting in. :biggrin:

Originally Posted by Kaleb.G

SotW Precedent isn't flawless because times change and rules are refined. Also, many things are entirely subjective. This isn't the SCOTUS.

Let's go ahead and take the next logical step and establish a Supreme SoTW Tribunal. Lengthy nonmination and confirmation battles equal more voting and more participation!

All nominations will have to be referred to a barrister in order to compile the neccessary precedents and case law before appearing before the Tribunal itself. Decked out in powdered wigs, regal black robes fluttering in the pure wind of justice, the court will usher in a new era of SoTW.

Nominators may represent themselves before the justices at the risk of being crushed by their laconic wit, or may desginate a counsel.

All tracks from "Phoenix Wright" will be banned as a conflict of interest

There's nowhere I can't reach.