[SotW] Song of the Week - WEEK 124 Voting/WEEK 125 Nominating

Wah, I hated the results. Such a low position for my favorite track this week (EDIT: Wops, Garou Densetsu 2 ^^U)

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by CHz

Um, Sonic CD? Is this okay with anyone?

I'm pretty sure Sonic CD is one of the classic Sonic games, arguably the best Sonic game ever... And I vividly remember the soundtrack as well. So yeah, that's a bit too well-known for my tastes.

Additional Spam:

Originally Posted by Rotorblade

Omega Five is an X-Box Live Arcade shooter that appeals to people who can appreciate how esoteric it is, that or people who just wanted the Gamerscore. Katamari Damacy was a PS2 game that exploded in popularity because the PS2 is actually a medium with a user base that actually wanted it from the get go.

This is a weird argument because it relies entirely on hindsight regarding Katamari's popularity. Nobody knew (including Namco) that Katamari Damacy would be a huge runaway success, why else would they have sold the game for half the price of a regular PS2 game? Sure it turned out to be a huge hit, but if memory serves me, it was an obscure title for a good while before it became well-known.

Comparable titles (on the PS2 or on other systems) have not escaped obscurity, musically or as a game.

Meanwhile, the 360 is a pretty big market as well, and who is to say that this game will not become notorious for its soundtrack? I'd have difficulty accepting a nomination from Touhou, which by most standards can't really be called a well-known game, but the soundtrack is so revered.

Anyway I do agree that a general rule should be formed (after all my nomination for NiGHTS 2 was shot down just a few weeks ago on similar grounds). 3 months after a game's US release sounds good to me as well.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

I'm quite neutral on the issue of time frame with regards to newly released games/soundtracks. I guess just stick with something that works for administration purposes and as it stands, I think the current methodology is ok.

Since we're on the topic of obscure/popular soundtracks, wanted to check if the Rockman EXE5DS&6 Complete Music Encyclopedia album is considered obscure enough. I have no idea if it's from a popular Rockman game/soundtrack but think the game(s) is for Nintendo DS. Was thinking of nominating a track or two.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Rotorblade

Just, I really want some kind of answer regarding how long of a wait I'm looking at.

There is justified confusion about the waiting period (cf. Manny Biggz). I thought I had made the situation clear by stating twice that the waiting period is undefined and seeking feedback about how long it should last, which a few people have provided, and I apologize for failing to do so. For the benefits of you and everyone else who does not know the particulars of the waiting period:

I don't know. We are currently in the process of making things explicit so that you will know.

The waiting period is neither a rule nor a guideline: it's a decree made by the SotW founder that was invoked probably once over the seventy weeks between when it was issued and a few weeks ago. Since then, it has been mentioned with regards to five tracks and counting, four of which have been nominated by people who only started participating after it was imposed. The part of the rules that you quoted does not apply because the waiting period is not in the rules at all. It has never been formalized and just been treated as common practice between the people who actually remember it happening because there has never been a pressing reason to until now. This is finally being addressed per the above [size=6][b] text.

Originally Posted by Rotorblade

I'm gonna sit here, with no clearly defined time and one day someone's gonna decide that "Oh hey, it'd be cool to nominate this because it sounds cool off the album I just downloaded" while I'm sitting here right now thinking "I wanted to nominate this the day I heard it while playing the damned game."

If you would like a guarantee that this track will not be nominated by anyone until you do after the next lunar eclipse or whatever waiting period is agreed upon, assuming one is imposed on your track, I can provide one.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Seeing all these, "Is this obscure enough?" questions, I just have to think (like Rimo), there are so many obviously obscure/unknown games/game soundtracks/game rips out there - why not nominate something from them instead of going with a track from a semi-obscure album from a game series that isn't obscure at all? I'm referring to the Metroid Prime, MMX, Sonic Boom, etc. noms here. I guess it's because people tend to nominate stuff they're familiar with, and people tend to be familiar with albums/rips from popular series, but there's no harm in expanding your search and listening to other random stuff. Note that I have nothing against the people making these nominations, and if such noms only came once in awhile, it wouldn't be a big deal. It just seems like there have been a lot of borderline noms lately, like people are trying to squeeze in whatever questionable albums they can rather than trying to promote more obscure stuff (SotW's purpose).

How ya doing, buddy?

Woohoo, second place!

I agree wholeheartedly with Drakken above. It's not the end of the word if an occasional too-popular track sneaks in, but I really wish people would choose clearly obscure stuff.

As for Sonic CD, I can't say one way or the other. Not familiar with the series personally, but I know some swear by it.

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Originally Posted by surasshu

I'm pretty sure Sonic CD is one of the classic Sonic games, arguably the best Sonic game ever... And I vividly remember the soundtrack as well. So yeah, that's a bit too well-known for my tastes.

I dunno, it still seems like a cult classic thing to me. I don't know ANYBODY who had a Sega CD...the only reason I even played it was the lame PC port was $5. But again I can't speak for whether the OST itself has some big following outside of SotW for some reason.

As for what Drakken said...nominating from popular series might seem like missing the point, but in every popular series there tends to be obscure off-shoots and unlocalized releases, and bringing them to light is pretty satisfying as well. I might have underestimated Sonic CD's popularity though, so I'll try to come up with an alt nom.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Dhsu

Edit: ROFL @ Dynamite Headdy. There's no way I can vote now, the 'shot bias will just be too overpowering.

I'm confused. Did this mean that you liked the track or not?

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Originally Posted by Dhsu

I dunno, it still seems like a cult classic thing to me. I don't know ANYBODY who had a Sega CD...the only reason I even played it was the lame PC port was $5. But again I can't speak for whether the OST itself has some big following outside of SotW for some reason.

As for what Drakken said...nominating from popular series might seem like missing the point, but in every popular series there tends to be obscure off-shoots and unlocalized releases, and bringing them to light is pretty satisfying as well. I might have underestimated Sonic CD's popularity though, so I'll try to come up with an alt nom.

Well, I mean, I can totally see why you'd nominate it, it's awesome and if not everybody has heard it at this point, they really should. It's true that not many folks had a Sega CD at the time (and I really can't blame anybody for that), but judging from what I know of Sonic fans, a lot of people went and played the game on emulator later. I did actually play it on Sega CD, which might actually be sadder than playing it on an emulator.

Anyway, I'm intimately familiar with the Sonic CD OST so for me this is like nominating something from Rondo of Blood--it may not be the most played of the Castlevania series, but the game is revered by many fans as the best one, and in a series where the music is specifically admired.

Maybe I'm actually overestimating the popularity of the game and its music with "normal people" though--it's certainly awesome so it's not like I never want to hear it again... Anyway, enough yammering from me for one SotW thread.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by CHz

If you would like a guarantee that this track will not be nominated by anyone until you do after the next lunar eclipse or whatever waiting period is agreed upon, assuming one is imposed on your track, I can provide one.

That would be great!

Drakken/orion:

As far as your collective reasoning is concerned, if there were a clearly defined rule regarding what just happened to some of us, I'm pretty sure we would have gone to the massive amounts of untapped VGM out there for potential nominations. Unfortunately, in the case of myself, I liked The Glacial Fortress since I heard it in January. I mean, surasshu brings up something that is good in theory, but guess what? I know Omega Five isn't going to be a gigantic cult explosion. It doesn't take a genius to see that.

There will not be a massive outcry for the music from Omega Five, much less the game, because it isn't anything like what Katamari Damacy is. It's a shooter, esoteric. Katamari was a fairly fun game that was extremely addictive and not overly complicated to play. Again, I realize "obscurity" is a touchy subject, taken on a case by case basis, but I find that the bulk of you who enjoy oversimplifying only increases some of the frustration regarding our attempts to participate.

Guess what? I would love to nominate something else, but I heard "X" song first. As we're seeing right now, "obscurity" is very much a game of semantics as far as this contest is concerned. In the case of Sonic CD, that game's music precedes it. It has a clearly defined reputation, yet I see that its status as "obscure" is being viewed in a light that just might get it into this contest. I disagree that it's obscure, I also disagree that Castlevania's music is obscure, but this VGM scene we deal in is very much a niche market. That said, I don't see very many people trying to fight the rules, we're just asking for guidance. I could do without the peanut gallery. I appreciate CHz's patience and helpfulness in this regard.

I'll have to come up with another nomination, but I'm glad to know my issue is being addressed.

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Originally Posted by Rotorblade

I'm gonna sit here, with no clearly defined time and one day someone's gonna decide that "Oh hey, it'd be cool to nominate this because it sounds cool off the album I just downloaded" while I'm sitting here right now thinking "I wanted to nominate this the day I heard it while playing the damned game."

Are you saying that people might actually find out about and enjoy this music without your assistance? Because that's pretty much why the waiting period is in effect in the first place. Besides, shouldn't it be about the music anyway and not the person who nominated it? Seriously now.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Respectfully... Waiting period, Dhsu? You mean the one that CHz just established as not being clearly defined or even in the rules? The very rules I referenced when I made the nomination, Dhsu? People would find the music on their own, sure... but I find that I have very little reason to believe that many of us find VGM from places other than albums or gamerips. I smelled opportunity, I took it. The instant this started being a contest was when the very idea of it being purely "about the music" went right out the window.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

It's the tracks that are competing, not the nominators. I'm not clear on what your point about albums and gamerips is...why does it matter the way people find VGM? The purpose of the waiting period is to allow the music to propagate, not necessarily the game. Nobody's actually played Drakengard 2 or Enthusia or Napple Tale, but those games are on the verge of being banned from SotW (if they haven't been already).

How ya doing, buddy?

The tracks are competing, but the nominators are the persons recommending them, chief.

I'd argue on Drakengard 2... but my point goes back to when CHz made mention that the album for Omega Five was just released and we should give it time, whereas I felt it was more important that we go based off when the video game actually hits. Since that's the point of origin, barring any musical arrangements/remixes. I feel that VGM enthusiasm seems to often forget the very reason the music exists in the first place: the video game itself. I don't care where people find the music, just that we could make some kind of concession to original tracks if there's no gamerip. I could see us waiting on albums like the Darius Remix, which has absolutely no original music from any of the games in question, but if I had to wait to nominate an original track from Darius based off when the Remix album dropped, I'd be somewhat puzzled.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by CHz

it's a decree made by the SotW founder that was invoked probably once over the seventy weeks between when it was issued and a few weeks ago.

o/~ Memories... o/~

Yes, we never made a rule because it was a rare occurrence where a track was scrutinized on this basis. On a side note, I made a personal pledge to not nominate anything released in the current year. I don't expect a waiting period of that long from you guys, but I want to let you know what my stance is.

Originally Posted by Dhsu

It's the tracks that are competing, not the nominators.

That's the same view I have about SotW. It's cool to have your track win, but there is no prize other than sharing music you enjoy with others. It works the same way in the BSC.


For the record, I heard "The Glacial Fortress" when I bought the game back in Janurary as well (thanks to CHz for the heads up). I thought it was great then, and still feel the same now. Definitely worthy of SotW. However, even the release of the game two months is rather recent. I have no problem giving the music time to propagate naturally, and likely at some point, having someone else nominate it for SotW.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

We can't clearly define "obscurity" here, yet "natural progression" comes up? OK, then.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by punkmaggit

I'm confused. Did this mean that you liked the track or not?

Haha. It means I couldn't resist referencing a musical in-joke. Sorry, carry on.

Alt Nomination:
Artist(s): Tatsuyuki Maeda, Yutaka Minobe, Masato Nakamura
Album/Game Title: Sonic Advance (Game Rip)
Track Title: Casino Paradise Zone Act 2
Disc Number: N/A
Track Number: N/A
Catalog Number: None
Year: 2001
Source(s): GSF rip

Also just to get this out of the way, here's a list of games I'm thinking of nominating that I think have questionable eligibility...if I can get a ruling on which ones are out, that'd be appreciated:

Grandia II
Grandia Xtreme
Panzer Dragoon
Panzer Dragoon Zwei
Parodius series
Radiant Silvergun
Shenmue
Shenmue II
Shining Force
WarCraft II

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Rotorblade

We can't clearly define "obscurity" here, yet "natural progression" comes up? OK, then.

I don't understand what you're trying to say.

Speaking of Sonic nominations, here's one of my own:
=== Kaleb.G ===
* Album Title: SEVEN RINGS IN HAND: Sonic and the Secret Rings Original Sound Track
* Artist: Fumie Kumatani
* Track Title: HIGH AND BROKEN
* Source: #gamemp3s / VGMdb
* File Location: I can upload it if you need me to; I got mine from #gamemp3s
* Disc Number: 1
* Track Number: 08
* Catalogue Number: WM-0560~1
* Year: 2007

Debate the eligibility if you must. As far as I can tell, the music was largely panned, if commented on at all. Also, it didn't appear that the game itself was very popular; I've never even heard anyone talk about playing it.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Kaleb.G

I don't understand what you're trying to say.

Then I guess we're in similar boats. I do not understand how someone can define "natural progression" when the very term used to justify the existence of an event is never clearly stated. In that case, what would be natural progression for obscurity? Waiting for "non-success" to kick in?

How ya doing, buddy?

Just to give my two cents, I don't think the Katamari Damacy example is relevant when talking about Omega Five. Sure, no one saw KD's popularity coming, but hey, it was an oddball budget game on a system with a huge install base that eventually caught on due to word of mouth. As Rotorblade said, Omega Five is a shmup. And one only users of Xbox Live can buy, no less. Shmups are never super-popular (at least here in the US), and there's nothing particularly unusual about this game that would cause anything like what happened with KD, so I'd say it's safe to declare it obscure enough for SotW. If its music happens to become popular after the soundtrack eventually comes out, so what? I don't think that's an issue.

Originally Posted by Dhsu

Also just to get this out of the way, here's a list of games I'm thinking of nominating that I think have questionable eligibility...if I can get a ruling on which ones are out, that'd be appreciated:

Grandia II
Grandia Xtreme
Panzer Dragoon
Panzer Dragoon Zwei
Parodius series
Radiant Silvergun
Shenmue
Shenmue II
Shining Force
WarCraft II

Grandia II and the Shenmue games are definite 'no's. Xtreme, not sure. Those two PD games have had just a bit of exposure here in BSC; can't remember if they've appeared in SotW before. I'd say they're borderline. The Parodius series should be fine. Radiant Silvergun is one of Sakimoto's well-known works, so no. Shining Force is very well-known; its music perhaps less so but still enough to make it ineligible. And WarCraft II? Well, I'm not sure how popular that game's music is, so I don't have an opinion there.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Lots of convo still going on here. Why don't some of you n00bs and stragglers check out the Best Doujin Contest and make a difference: Best Doujin Contest - Gamingforce Interactive Forums

FELIPE NO

I'll pass if it's all the same. My loss? Awesome!

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Liontamer

Lots of convo still going on here. Why don't some of you n00bs and stragglers check out the Best Doujin Contest and make a difference: Best Doujin Contest - Gamingforce Interactive Forums

There a working link to the torrent download?

Jam it back in, in the dark.

DISCUSSION GOES HERE NOW

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Manny Biggz

There a working link to the torrent download?

Likely not at this point, but every single thread has the tracks hosted as well as streamable. There's not much effort involved.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.