[360] The future of Mistwalker?

(( Thread idea lifted from NeoGAF ))

Some of you may know who Mistwalker is. Probably most of you 360 owners. It's a studio run by some guy named Gooch who was responsible for some minor series called Final Fantasy. Apparently he saw the steaming pile of vomit that the FF series has festered into, and instead of taking a dip decided to try his own thing.

Good for you, guy named after one of the filthiest places on our bodies. Good for you.

His first game, Blue Dragon was supposed to be amazing, colossal, a tour de force. And it kinda was. I mean, there was some considerable talent behind the series, just not in the right places. Gooch wrote it up, Uematsu composed it, and Toriyama drew it. I never played it myself, but apparently, it's a pretty good game, but doesn't stray too far from the JRPG formula. That works for some people, not for others.

It ended up selling over 200,000 copies in Japan. A pretty impressive number for a country that's busy replacing the Sony branded dildo in their bums with one from Nintendo. I think it sold similarly here in the States, and obviously less so to the communists in Yurp. There's a portable take on the story available soon on the DS, and work on a sequel is in the planning stages. So, everyone was reasonably satisfied with the events they've seen. Overall everyone rated Mistwalker's first foray into console-dom a C+. OK, not great, and our planet was spared.

So now Japan has seen the release of Lost Odyssey and... it didn't do so hot. Graphical issues, loading issues, frame rate issues... All problems. Some fixable in the time the game will take to be translated, so the US might see a better product. But whatever it is that Japan got, they didn't take it too well. Last numbers put the title at around 100,000 sold.

Honestly, I'm much more interested in Lost Odyssey than I was Blue Dragon. I've about had it with Toriyama's art style, Uematsu isn't a selling point for me, and the 1000 year, immortal protagonist story plot for LO is much more intriguing. Finally, the issues commonly cited with the game aren't anything I haven't seen in Mass Effect, and that game is nearly perfect. Famitsu gave it favorable reviews as well.

Finally there's ASH, a game that pretty much ruined Christmas for those few heathens in the land of the rising fun that actually participated in the holiday. Apparently, when it's not being pretty it's busy being ugly, jerky, and all around not nice. Coupled with an unneeded reliance on the stylus and you have a failure on your hands.

Here's a video showing off the games pretty good FMV, awful overworld 2D, and amazing in battle graphics.

YouTube - ASH Archaic Sealed Heat Nintendo DS

So, what's the deal with Mistwalker? What does the future hold? They've done okay in Japan, and their first release in the States wasn't handled too badly either. There seems to be a bit of a backlash against the developer in the east, though, especially with the 2CH Sony Fanboys railing against them at every turn.

They have two DS titles in the works, one a Blue Dragon sequel and another a brand new dungeon crawler. They also have Cry-On, a game that they hope will make you cry every 15 minutes. Not sure how that's gonna go well with me. And then there's the vague plans for a 360 MMO. Cool.

Personally, while they haven't had break out success, they certainly haven't falled completely flat on their faces. They seem to focus too much on one thing during development, while letting others slip. Example, the graphical problems and inconsistencies in both Lost Odyssey and ASH. Sometimes they look great, sometimes not so much.

All they really need is one break out hit, though. If they could get something that hits the market and makes $texas, and REALLY puts them in the minds of Japanese gamers, then I don't think there will be any question about their future. Until then, the rabid nationalism is going to play against Mistwalker for supporting an American company. But really, **** them. The US can support Mistwalker... especially if that mega hit translates well.

Microsoft created a subsidiary development studio called Feel Plus to help out with developing Lost Odyssey. Maybe they can make amends with Level 5 and get some high profile names behind their next project, even though Rogue Galaxy didn't exactly set the world on fire, sales wise. (Remember the Xbox only MMORPG from Level 5?) Artoon developed Blue Dragon, and are also working on Cry-On with one of the designers from the Panzer Dragoon* series.

I think I might pick up Blue Dragon now that I can find it cheap. If I sat through Eternal Sonata, maybe I can sit through BD too.

What do you think?






*Even though I'm not keen on the crying thing, anything from a designer behind Panzer Dragoon is sold for me.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

So this is this thread, eh? Yeah. Great.

I'm thinking that Blue Dragon's demo might have been one of the few cases where sales could have been hurt by the damn thing. That's just how BAD it was. It dropped you into an area with no context, gave you every god damn ability in the game, and was just "lawl go to work". It was very :ughmode:. Everyone I know who's played the full game is like "It's actually pretty awesome though, so you should play it". What is it with lame as fuck demos these days, Jesus.

Also, complaining about sales numbers on a JAPANESE 360 game is kinda, well, mind boggling. What the ever loving fuck did they expect? For serious.

And Mass Effect being almost perfect? Eh, that's a discussion (and a huge set of fucking lawls) for a different thread, I suppose.

Not many people in this here RPG forum have 360s, and many of our 360 users aren't huge JRPG faggots. (I can think of maybe half a dozen) I can't imagine we'll have as riproaring (read: retarded) a discussion as NeoGAF there, sorry.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

I saw the NeoGAF thread. Didn't read. For the same reason I don't read GameFAQs threads. I remade the thread in other (more intelligent) forums.

Mistwalker is in a peculiar position. They're on the fence in terms of becoming an industry legend, or merely a footnote.

And shame on your for equating my intentions and my thread to that of NeoGAF.

EDIT

I also agree with you about the demo. It suffers from the same problem that the Burnout Paradise demo is plagued with. Basically, "Here you go, you little scamp. Now get to it!"

Give me some direction, please.

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It's the same fucking thread. The hell do you expect? (Didn't read it but copied it's opening post though, only with a bit more elaboration? Awesome.) I don't really care if you ripped it off or not, but there is an unmeasurable amount of lawls to be had at your expense for trying to say your intentions were different.

And industry legend? Don't make me laugh. They've pretty much consigned themselves to failure by their choice of platform. If anything, they might become a small blip on the history pages of this generation with a caption of "most wasted potential", but that's about the most of it.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Colonel Skills

They've pretty much consigned themselves to failure by their choice of platform.

Eh, this was already touched on in the NeoGAF shit-fest that thread is, but it was a poor decision on Mistwalker's part to initially align themselves and be funded by Microsoft. They should've started with some low level projects on the DS that weren't grandiose productions (i.e. ASH, which was the first 256 MB cart on the DS). Mistwalker themselves are really to blame for their potential downfall.

Their best bet if their Xbox 360 games failed (which, they pretty much have), would've been to try and set up shop with Nintendo. Given how frugal and conservative Nintendo is, I doubt they're willing to take another risk with Mistwalker after ASH severely flopped.

I don't know, they have AWAY and Blue Dragon DS still, but I don't foresee either of those making waves. AWAY is just another dungeon crawler with a neat gimmick, and Blue Dragon isn't exactly a lucrative IP -- plus Blue Dragon DS game is an RTS/RPG, a genre that has never been received well in the Japanese market. Well, actually, that isn't entirely true, Final Fantasy XII: Revenant Wings did 500k this year in Japan. However, that's Final Fantasy. If Blue Dragon DS can do 200-300k, I'd personally consider it a relative success.

I was speaking idiomatically.

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It's the same fucking thread.

So, we can't discuss topics here that are being discussed on NeoGAF? I noticed you started a Project Sylpheed thread. I'm sure there were one or two of those at GAF As well. olo

Look, son, don't take your nerd anger for GAF out on me. It's a topic I'd like to discuss with people other than the GAF crowd. Not my concern if that's an issue that bothers you.

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And industry legend? Don't make me laugh.

Why not? It only takes one good game. Look at Level 5. They were pretty mediocre until Dragon Quest VIII was released. Now they're hot shit.

Besides, the men behind the Mistwalker name are already people you can name drop in a conversation. If they could spend a little more time polishing their games up, or at least partnering with a more reliable studio to develop their titles, they could do a little better.

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(i.e. ASH, which was the first 256 MB cart on the DS).

I dunno. Cart size isn't necessarily a mitigating factor in extravagant production. FMV's are staples of JRPGs now days, and ASH, from what I remember, has a pretty healthy amount. Plus the pre-rendered sprites are sure to suck up some space.

I agree, though, that they should have started a bit low. Microsoft made a mistake in thinking that Gooch can simply repeat success on a whim.

How ya doing, buddy?

I think the fact that Mistwalker is nothing more than a concept studio shows. They come up with a game idea then largely ship it off to a group of unknowns to develop. I can't say that I've been impressed with any of their offerings so far and I think both Monolithsoft and Mistwalker shows that it takes a lot more than some talent to make decent games.

I know one thing for sure though, they aren't going to last with Microsoft so I have little doubt they will be going multiplatform soon after CryOn is done and their development contract with Microsoft is fulfilled.

FELIPE NO

Doesn't Monolith Soft have a pretty decent foothold in the industry? Most people were pretty happy with Baten Kaitos. While we're talking about it, do you know who did more work on the title? Monolith Soft or Tri Crescendo? They're both credited with the game.

I know there was a pretty positive reaction to XenoSaga as well. Obviously Nintendo sees something worthwhile with the studio.

They also have an MMORPG for the 360. At least according to Wiki.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

At least you admitted you ripped it off. That's all I was accusing you of, regardless. No need to be an arrogant shitheel about it. Anywho, moving on.

Cetra's completely right. The fact that Blue Dragon was outsourced to the fucking company that made BLINX 2 sort of, y'know, shows a bit about how much they really give a shit. The name dropping is just that. "Look at this, Sakaguchi worked on it". Whoopee. I also think that if they survive at all, they'll be going multiplatform.

Also, regarding Level 5.



Hi.

Considering they do shit in house, and do quality shit at that, they aren't even COMPARABLE to Mistwalker. Commercial success might not have been that great with DC2, I'll give you that, though.

Keep talking out your ass though, dude. It's fucking A+ material. I'm lollin' up a storm.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

I nicely asked you to keep your nerd rage out of my thread.

The only good thing Level 5 has done is Dragon Quest and Rogue Galaxy. They haven't done much "in house" either. Most of their releases have been both funded and heavily controlled by Sony. Rogue Galaxy was the first title they've had any amount of autonomy, and Professor Layton is their first completely independent title.

Also, the only thing remarkable about Dark Cloud 1/2 is that they managed to be a good looking game on the PS2.

So, yeah. Keep talking out your ass though, dude.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Most development studios are funded by their publishers. I can't really think of anyone these days that can make a game then seek out a publisher for it.

There is also a huge difference between Level 5 and Mistwalker. As I've already said Mistwalker is just a big concept think-tank. They don't have an actual development team and they don't get very involved with their projects once the concept moves to an outsourced development house.

Level 5 is an actual concept and development house. The creators of the projects oversee every aspect of the project as it advances like with most other developers, hence why we see some quality from them.

Mistwalker will not be able to deliver a decent game until they restructure their development process. They need their own development house and the producers need to be there for every aspect of development rather than just for the concept and approving major changes that the outsourced projects might desire. Again, I will not be at all surprised if they actually turn to Sony and Nintendo and get this once their dealings with Microsoft complete because to be honest the Xbox 360 experiment has been a failure.

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by Colonel Skills

The name dropping is just that. "Look at this, Sakaguchi worked on it". Whoopee.

Name dropping only works when the name you drop has actually done something worthwhile in the last decade. Sakaguchi, not so much. So far we've seen something painfully JRPG in Blue Dragon, and something that just oozes EMO-CRY-CRY in Lost Odyssey, so it's going to take a lot more than just name recognition for me to actually care about any of their future outsourced projects.

Maybe they should just go ahead and sell out to EA before the industry realizes that Sakaguchi is washed up.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

I'm not raging, kiddo.

Nice wiki dive though, I'll admit. But you've also interpreted it wrong. Level 5 is more akin to Artoon than Mistwalker, who's closer to Sony in this example, if you're talking about comparing the Dark Clouds to Blue Dragon. Little bit of reversal there though. Still not an exact comparison. But it's much closer than what you're throwing about.

The difference, of course, is that Level 5 put out some quality product that people bought. If the demo of Blue Dragon is any indication, then there's some quality here too, it just didn't hit even half of the sales DC1 did. But we've already touched on that subject.

Jesus, you're like Elixir was 8 months ago. When he came back somewhat reformed, I thought we'd be past this sort of shit.

Edit: Beaten by Cetra, and he did a much better job of explaining the whole thing. A+ Cetra. Props.

I'd quit while you're ahead, new guy. Watching you dig your own grave here is frownyface.

I was speaking idiomatically.

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I can't really think of anyone these days that can make a game then seek out a publisher for it.

Building games and pitching concepts is still widely practiced. I think GameSpot even has an article up on it today.

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There is also a huge difference between Level 5 and Mistwalker. As I've already said Mistwalker is just a big concept think-tank. They don't have an actual development team and they don't get very involved with their projects once the concept moves to an outsourced development house.

I'm not trying to compare the development practices of Mistwalker and Level 5, I'm referring to their notorieity. Specifically, how no one knew who they were until they had a big hit on their hands (DQ8).

If Mistwalker is lucky enough to be known as "Those guys that did that awesome as game" they can be saved from this predicament they're in. They tried it arleady with name dropping Gooch. Now they just need a big name title behind it.

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Mistwalker will not be able to deliver a decent game until they restructure their development process

Well, depends on what you mean by "decent". Lost Odyssey has some decent reviews in Japan, regardless of the graphical glitches and problems.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by Django!

Doesn't Monolith Soft have a pretty decent foothold in the industry? Most people were pretty happy with Baten Kaitos. While we're talking about it, do you know who did more work on the title? Monolith Soft or Tri Crescendo? They're both credited with the game.

I know there was a pretty positive reaction to XenoSaga as well. Obviously Nintendo sees something worthwhile with the studio.

Monolith Soft. is also an actual development studio, though, not a production house like Mistwalker.

The topic of "which developer had more input on Baten Kaitos: Monolith or Tri-Crescendo?" is volatile and has been debated before in the past. Most signs seem to point towards Monolith Soft., however. The credits on hand at Moby Games corroborates that.

Finally, the truth behind Nintendo purchasing Monolith Soft. is really quite funny, and, doesn't equate to much other than "well, they're another dev house under our wing." When Bandai was having serious financial troubles last gen, Nintendo invested in them, and bought about 2.6% of the company. Following the Namco Bandai merger, Nintendo held around 1.3% of the company. This stock was, basically, just sitting idle, and was useless for Nintendo since the original reason they even invested was so Nintendo could be the majority shareholder (they would have only needed about 5% of the company for that to happen, at the time) and make Hiroshi Yamauchi as president of Bandai. Anyway, in the end, Namco Bandai "purchased" back Nintendo's shares by giving Nintendo majority control of Monolith Soft. (Nintendo owns 80% of the company).

Originally Posted by Django!

The fact that Blue Dragon was outsourced to the fucking company that made BLINX 2 sort of, y'know, shows a bit about how much they really give a shit.

While Artoon certainly doesn't deserve any accolades for their previous games (Vampire Rain, BlinX, etc.), they haven't made entirely only shit. Yoshi's Island DS isn't a bad game, neither is King of Fighters EX: Neo Blood on the GBA, and Blue Dragon is definitely a good game, though very basic and traditional. However, yeah, the majority of games they've put out thus far have been shit.

FELIPE NO

Quote:

Finally, the truth behind Nintendo purchasing Monolith Soft. is really quite funny, and, doesn't equate to much other than "well, they're another dev house under our wing." When Bandai was having serious financial troubles last gen, Nintendo invested in them, and bought about 2.6% of the company. Following the Namco Bandai merger, Nintendo held around 1.3% of the company. This stock was, basically, just sitting idle, and was useless for Nintendo since the original reason they even invested was so Nintendo could be the majority shareholder (they would have only needed about 5% of the company for that to happen, at the time) and make Hiroshi Yamauchi as president of Bandai. Anyway, in the end, Namco Bandai "purchased" back Nintendo's shares by giving Nintendo majority control of Monolith Soft. (Nintendo owns 80% of the company).

Ugh.

And here I was hoping Nintendo was interested in them as an in house RPG developer.

Which almost brings up the thought, "What the hell is Camelot up to?" I know they have that golf game coming out, but that's not why I care about them.

Thanks for clearing that up about Monolith, though. That's one of the things that confused me. The only two games I can think of both had Tri Crescendo involved. I assumed it may have been a similar situation to Mistwalker and Artoon.

Also, olo miss quote.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

I just got Blue Dragon, and I'm enjoying it ;__;

Jam it back in, in the dark.

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and something that just oozes EMO-CRY-CRY in Lost Odyssey

Isn't that a mainstay in most JRPGs? ;-)

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I just got Blue Dragon, and I'm enjoying it ;__;

I'm thinking about doing the same, especially since you can get it on the cheap.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Django!

Isn't that a mainstay in most JRPGs? ;-)

Most of my favorite JRPGs weren't based on an EMO-CRY-CRY premise though. Final Fantasy Tactics, Valkyrie Profile, Chrono Trigger, and Final Fantasy VI all managed to be great, emotionally powerful game without asking us to feel sorry for their lead characters, to name a few examples. Why do I want to play 40 hours as some weepy guy, when I know that the entire time I am going to be yelling at my screen for him to grow a pair and get over it. You're fucking immortal, deal with it. Don't whine to me about your last 7 boyfriends dying of old age. I don't want to hear it. I want to run around, beat stuff up with an oversized sword, stop the spread of evil across a continent, deal with some emotional shit {deal with - not whine about} related to my quest to stop the spread of evil across a continent, and not whine about how when my HP gets to 0, I'm still aight cause I'm a fucking immortal.

This is why I like Mass Effect so much, despite its problems. You start out with the galactics powers-that-be pretty much calling you a crazy person. Do you sit around whining about it? No, you say fuck those guys, I'm handling business. When you present evidence proving that you aren't crazy, and they say "well, we believe part of that, but the rest is just crazy talk", do you whine about it? No, you say fuck those guys, I'm handling business. When the galactic powers-that-be ground your spaceship at port, even though you have an appointment on the other side of the galaxy, you know, to save said galaxy, do you cry about it and let the galaxy get destroyed? No, you get pissed off and then you say fuck those guys, I'm handling business.


Point is: enough with the crybaby shit Japan, I don't care.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Since I have a Japanese 360 I was capable of playing Blue Dragon's English/Asian release 4(5?) months prior to the release. There's something called "bad voice acting", and it exists. The Korean and Japanese voice acting sounds like shit. The characters' personalities just don't fit the voice acting very accurately. God knows what the English voice acting is like, but yeah.

The game.. everything looked plastic. A few months later Eternal Sonata was released which is a beautiful, beautiful game, and blew it out of the water. I like Toriyama's art, it's decent, but I'm not really interested in Uematsu. It doesn't really matter though, since you aren't playing the game for the music here.

But I think the most annoying thing about Blue Dragon was that there was hidden, invisible gold to be found in EVERY SINGLE WALL. A perfectionist's nightmare, if you will. You basically need to run along the edge of a wall continuously pressing A to see if there's something there. Why? Because you can't tell either way, as the stuff is invisible. There's chests in the game too but lol wuteva.

Uhh, I don't really know about their other stuff. ASH is Japanese, and is a "love or hate" kind of game. I downloaded it but didn't like it due to the fact that I:

1) Didn't know what the fuck I was doing
2) Didn't really care
3) I really don't expect much from DS RPGs after being disappointed with so many of them. Contact, Lunar, Luminous Arc..

Lost Odyssey's looking good, and this is the first I've heard about it being "badly received" since it's initial release. But again.. another game I don't really hold any interest for. The trailers looked good, but it just wasn't my sort of thing.

Pretty much all of their material doesn't interest me. I don't know why, it just doesn't. And because of this I really don't know nor care what they're doing or will end up doing. If anything I'll avoid them because Blue Dragon was pretty disappointing. If I could sell the game I probably would. But nobody would want it.

Originally Posted by russ

Valkyrie Profile

Spoiler:

I felt VP was really depressing. You're a fallen angel helping gather mortals who have just comitted suicide/died in some manner to train them for a battle in which they're going to die for anyway. The game is presented uniquely, but yeah uh this isn't the kind of thing I'd put together with Chrono Trigger.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Blue Dragon isn't graphically inferior. Eternal Sonata just had more colors. And I don't understand how you can criticize Blue Dragon's voice acting (never mind that I am mystified at your ability to tell the difference between good and bad Japanese voice acting) without mentioning Eternal Sonata's, which consists of conversations filled with inexplicably long and awkward pauses.

:random character speaks:
:spends 5 seconds flailing perpetually bent arms around in silence:

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Elixir

Spoiler:

I felt VP was really depressing. You're a fallen angel helping gather mortals who have just comitted suicide/died in some manner to train them for a battle in which they're going to die for anyway. The game is presented uniquely, but yeah uh this isn't the kind of thing I'd put together with Chrono Trigger.

Way to completely miss the point of Russ' post, Lix. It's not that there's sadness to it, it's that they aren't fucking whining perpetually about their lot in life... er, death. Whatever. It's not emo :cut: :cut: :cut: constantly. You have a gig. You do it.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Hey, you can always count on Bioware (i.e. America) to crank out the exact same fucking save-the-galaxy story (with obligatory romance subplot) in every RPG of theirs, so don't worry about Lost Odyssey (i.e. Japan) oversaturating the market with whinedom and emocity.

At least Mass Effect had lesbians. That's, like, revolutionary.

FELIPE NO

Blue lesbians.

Looks like Brownie Brown is doing the DS Blue Dragon. I suppose it's 50/50 on whether or not it's gonna be any good.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Bigblah

Blue Dragon isn't graphically inferior. Eternal Sonata just had more colors. And I don't understand how you can criticize Blue Dragon's voice acting (never mind that I am mystified at your ability to tell the difference between good and bad Japanese voice acting) without mentioning Eternal Sonata's, which consists of conversations filled with inexplicably long and awkward pauses.

:random character speaks:
:spends 5 seconds flailing perpetually bent arms around in silence:

I just didn't like it. Then again I haven't played Eternal Sonata with Japanese voice acting because I didn't like that either. The English in Eternal Sonata seems quite fitting, ie. Chopin, Polka, and Beat. I'm perfectly happy with Eternal Sonata's English voice acting and they didn't fuck it up by including English with character's mouths synced to Japanese voices. It seems like they've put a lot of effort into the game.

I pretty much like Japanese voice acting or I don't. The only notable person in Blue Dragon's voice acting is Norio Wakamoto, he played Nene. But.. I don't care. The game didn't look very detailed in comparison to Eternal Sonata, and I'm pretty sure it was being worked on before Eternal Sonata was.

I'm not fussy about voice acting though. Odin Sphere and Persona 3 had great English voice actors and I'd much rather play them like that over Japanese ones.

And I still don't like Blue Dragon. It just bored me. Disappointment of the Year.

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