[General Discussion] Sonic the Hedgehog - Mediocre Madness!!!

I've been a long time Sonic fan but some of this recent stuff it just...mediocre.

I was vastly disappointed with Shadow the Hedgehog and very bored with Sonic Riders.

It saddens me that so many Sonic fans just eat this stuff up, thereby making it so there isn't really a drive to pull the whole Sonic Franchise out of the gutter.

Sometimes it just seems as though Sonic can't really do well in 3D. I hate to say that but it's what I feel. Sonic Rush was a decent/good Sonic game but IMO there hasn't been anything else that's really good for the Sonic 3D world.

Sonic Team keeps experimenting with all of these different gameplay methods, which is good, but I hope they can get something good together soon.

I don't know if many Sonic fans will put up with it for much longer. I'm depending on Sonic Next Gen, but if it flops I guess I won't be such a big Sonic fan anymore.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Since the death of the Dreamcast, Sega's software developers have really lost their focus. Hence all these muddled, half-arsed attempts - it's not just Sonic, but most everything. If it wasn't for the Virtua Fighter series continuing to maintain a triple-A standard of quality, Sega would nearly be lost.

Sonic has been horribly mis-managed though. Sonic Team never could get a firm grasp on 3D game design, and after Sonic Adventure 2, sadly has shown that the staff working on console Sonic titles seriously needs to be shaken up. Sega badly needs to bring in some of their other development staff to re-evaluate their strategy.

Even Sonic Rush on the DS, while a better effort than in recent years, suffers from uncreative, lackluster design in many areas. And don't get me wrong - I own it, and it's a -good- game. But it's not flagship title status as Sonic used to be for Sega.

It's sad that the developers who've left Sega, such as Mizuguchi (Q Entertainment, Meteos, Lumines) have started producing better games than when they were with Sega. I'd say this strongly points to terrible management and producing policies.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

i agree.. with sonic heroes coming out.. i sorta lost interest in the story. when shadow the hedgehog came out.. the story looked too obvious to spot even when you start playing the beginning of it. We can only thank Sega for working on the stuff in handhelds like Sonic Rush; although, that was a lil too easy and not as good as the advance games.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

After Sonic and Knuckles came out, one of the few Sonic games I enjoyed was Sonic Advance 2, which has to be the FASTEST Sonic game ever. Go play that. It's a blast.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Sonic isn't the same now. The Sonic Advance games are okay, but I wouldn't buy them. Sonic Rush is great, but Shadow the Hedgehog, Sonic Heroes, and Sonic Riders just don't interest me anymore.

I loved the ridiculous Sonic Adventure 2 ending. 20 minutes long, and all of that. I don't think Sega can capture what Sonic was on the Genesis via the DS, but Sonic Rush was impressive, and had a great soundtrack. I'd like to see a sequel to Rush or Adventure 2, but it's unlikely. The level design in most 3D Sonic games are terrible, and you're moving so fast that collecting rings is difficult.

I still haven't played Sonic CD, that's the only one I missed. I'd pick up Mega Collection 2, but it has CD and 2 other mediocre games.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Sir VG

After Sonic and Knuckles came out, one of the few Sonic games I enjoyed was Sonic Advance 2, which has to be the FASTEST Sonic game ever. Go play that. It's a blast.

Sonic Advance 2 was a racing game not a platformer.

I swear you can finish most stages in that game by just pressing right and occasionally jump.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by Kaijima

Even Sonic Rush on the DS, while a better effort than in recent years, suffers from uncreative, lackluster design in many areas. And don't get me wrong - I own it, and it's a -good- game. But it's not flagship title status as Sonic used to be for Sega.

I can say the same. It seems like most of the press hailed it as Sonic's return to his glory days, but I can't say it necessarily matches the quality of the Mega Drive games (which I enjoyed). It suffers from some design flaws and just feels really "behind the times".

FELIPE NO

I loved what I played of Sonic Adventure Battle 2. The intro with the skateboard thing (what is that thing, a streetboard?) was cool. It also had some neat mainstreamish music.

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It's strange that if Yuji Naka is considered a perfectionist that he would let such mediocre (poor) games come out of his development studio. I thought the end of the Dreamcast was meant to make Sega's games BETTER.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by J-Rev

The intro with the skateboard thing (what is that thing, a streetboard?) was cool.

Actually, I think it was meant to be the door from the plane he lept from. A bajillion miles up in the sky. I dunno, I tried very hard to forget Sonic Adventure 2 and Sonic Heroes after I played them. Though every now and then the Knuckles Pumpkin Hill rap song will drift into my brain and I'll start bleeding from the ears and eyes.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

2 months ago I tried and beat Sonic 3D Blast for the first time. Holy crap I didn't realize I liked it that much! A new fresh idea for sonic games! 8.75/10.

My favorite sonic all time is SONIC CD and that is even one of my favorite video game soundtracks to listen to.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by evilboris

Sonic Advance 2 was a racing game not a platformer.

I swear you can finish most stages in that game by just pressing right and occasionally jump.

Sonic is about speed which a lot of games have been lacking in the serious department.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

No comment on Riders, Shadow or Rush (no DS for me), but I loved Sonic Heroes and Sonic Advance 3 from a few years ago. Heroes is one of the few flawed 3D platformers I can tolerate, simply because it's actually fun to play in spite of the camera. And Advance 3 is just solid as well. I'm glad Sega's actually using Sonic, instead of prodding him as a corporate mascot with little to show for it (say hello, Mario).

How is Riders, BTW? Been thinking of giving it a look.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Wow, now I've got to get involved in this. Okay, I can't give you all a definite answer for Sonic Riders yet since I haven't played it enough, but so far I like it...with the Japanese voices. Ever since 4 kids took over the voicing department, I had to switch over to Japanese voices. I miss Ryan Drummond, Lani Manella and all the originals.

Seriously, Sonic's conversion to 3D was successful in the Adventure series. Sonic Heroes...while I didn't like the whole team play idea, the game and the music were pretty awesome. Story lacked a bit, I'll admit, but it was still good overall (I would've like to have seen Super Tails and Hyper Knuckles in the final battle too).

Sonic Advance was great, I think it almost recaptured the old Genesis games. I had a problem with Sonic Advance 2 where to get to the special stages, you had to collect 7 special rings in a specific location. I almost didn't beat the game because of that, but I read some FAQs and eventually got to the final story. Sonic Advance 3...well, I stopped playing it after a while because I couldn't figure out how to even get to the special stages.

Sonic Rush was pretty cool, though I was they would've used someone else other than Blaze...maybe Shadow, Knuckles or Tails...maybe Amy. However, the Special Stages weren't that difficult to find and the story overall was decent. Hopefully, that's the last we've seen of Blaze.

Shadow the Hedgehog...I see sites like Gamespot and IGN giving it low scores because you use guns and it's darker. News flash: SHADOW the Hedgehog is the title of the game, not Sonic. Of course it's going to be darker, and although the guns fit Shadow's character, I don't think it was a good idea...who needs guns when you have Chaos Control, Chaos Blast, and Chaos Spear? I'll agree, the story could've been better...and although the game is called Shadow the Hedgehog, I think Sonic could've been in the final battle with Shadow...and why not? That's what happened in Sonic Adventure 2. Oh, and after I savored all the damns and hells that Sonic and Shadow said in English, I went to the Japanese voices. Why? Because the 4Kids voices for Sonic X suck.

I'm looking forward to Sonic next-gen for PS2/XBox and the exclusive one for Revolution. I also look forward to changing the voices to Japanese again...unless Ryan Drummond and the others come back. They should stick with what they did in the Adventure series, because that was working quite well for me.

Here's what I think they should do...keep the special stages easy to find, let them be difficult once they're in the special stage. Go back to the original VAs and tell 4Kids to go **** themselves (though it was Yuji Naka's idea to have the Sonic X VAs be the video game VAs, he should've done it the other way around). The gameplay should be like it was in the Adventure series with one or two characters per stage, no more than that. The music does not need any work, it's kept me entertained to no end. Keep the fishing out and maybe 3rd person shooters unless you're playing as Dr. Eggman. Do all of that, put in a good story, and that should be a good Sonic game.

Edit to GoldfishX: Riders is insane...and not in a bad way. You may want to rent it first before you try to buy it because it's definitely not for everyone. I'm still trying to get used to the controls...and as far as the tricks go, my thanks go out to SSX Tricky for helping me prepare for that.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Sonic needs to go dark.

I mean, the next game should open with Robotnik getting killed off by a super villain. Some kind of badass like Metal Sonic 2.0, who goes on to kill Sonic when he's trying to defend his friends. In the later course of the game, his friends have to go on a journey to find a special chaos emerald in order to ressurect him. Then you have this gigantic ass fight with Super Sonic vs. Metal Sonic 2.0 in the Earth's atmosphere.

Hold up. Just got a call from Yuji Naka.

FELIPE NO

I agree. I enjoyed Sonic a lot back in the day but lately, I haven't been able to get into his 3D Adventures. The new characters, way of playing it haven't really been my cup of tea. I'm also not a huge fan of the Advance games. They're fun, but they're not amazingly fun.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Chaco

I agree. I enjoyed Sonic a lot back in the day but lately, I haven't been able to get into his 3D Adventures. The new characters, way of playing it haven't really been my cup of tea. I'm also not a huge fan of the Advance games. They're fun, but they're not amazingly fun.

The last notable Sonic Game I'ed played is Sonic Adventure 2, which is the best post S3&K game imo. It just has the classic Sonic fell to it and finally lets us play as Robotnik. It seems as the DC died so did the excellence of the Sonic games...

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Let me share my experience with Sonic Adventure 2, I tried to like it, I tried really hard to like it. I wanted to like it. It's Sonic! My favourite games as a kid were all Sonic games. My excitement didn't last long.

The game is horrible. An absolutely terrible abortion of awkward camera angles, horrible level design, twitchy unpolished controls, tons of glitches, and the pace is completely random. While the Sonic levels are passable, those Knuckles and Tails levels (sadly two thirds of the game) are HORRIBLE. The knuckles "FIND THE RANDOMLY PLACED EMERALDS" stages have to be the worst levels in any videogame i've ever played in my entire life, and some guy rapping about emeralds to a generic beat in the background doesn't help. Actually, I challenge someone to name a worse game. I'll play it, and list at least 5 reasons why it's better than the Knuckles levels in SA2.

I think the worst thing is how awesome a Sonic game could have been in 3D.

Note: I haven't played Sonic Adventure 1, is it any better than 2? Fundamentally the same but more bearable? Less bearable? I think it would better by default if it doesn't have stupid Knuckles and Tails levels. I'll try it one day, but I wont dare touch Sonic Heroes or Shadow. (well, maybe I will for comedy's sake)

Also, they need to drop all these pointless characters and the story shit, the attempt at a story in any Sonic game is always horrible, they shouldn't even bother, nobody cares.

I've only played the Sonic Advance games briefly, but they were ok, nothing special though. Sonic Rush is awesome, it still doesn't touch the old Mega Drive Sonics but it doesn't try to, it's different, it has even more of a focus on speed than platforming, it all just flows so well, and while I didn't like the music at first, it's grown on me and goes well with the game. More folks need to get Sonic Rush to ensure a sequel, i'd buy Sonic Rush 2 in a heartbeat.

How ya doing, buddy?

Sonic Adventure 3: GONNA GET RAPED!

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by www.sega.co.jp

The last notable Sonic Game I'ed played is Sonic Adventure 2, which is the best post S3&K game imo. It just has the classic Sonic fell to it and finally lets us play as Robotnik. It seems as the DC died so did the excellence of the Sonic games...

Sonic Adventure 2 let you play as robotnik, and it was on the Dreamcast, too.

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Originally Posted by Grubdog

Let me share my experience with Sonic Adventure 2, I tried to like it, I tried really hard to like it. I wanted to like it. It's Sonic! My favourite games as a kid were all Sonic games. My excitement didn't last long.

The game is horrible. An absolutely terrible abortion of awkward camera angles, horrible level design, twitchy unpolished controls, tons of glitches, and the pace is completely random. While the Sonic levels are passable, those Knuckles and Tails levels (sadly two thirds of the game) are HORRIBLE. The knuckles "FIND THE RANDOMLY PLACED EMERALDS" stages have to be the worst levels in any videogame i've ever played in my entire life, and some guy rapping about emeralds to a generic beat in the background doesn't help. Actually, I challenge someone to name a worse game. I'll play it, and list at least 5 reasons why it's better than the Knuckles levels in SA2.

Superman 64? Mortal Kombat Trilogies: Sub-Zero? Bebe's Kids? Name just ONE reason why these are better than the Knuckles levels, and I'll concede the point.

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Note: I haven't played Sonic Adventure 1, is it any better than 2? Fundamentally the same but more bearable? Less bearable? I think it would better by default if it doesn't have stupid Knuckles and Tails levels. I'll try it one day, but I wont dare touch Sonic Heroes or Shadow. (well, maybe I will for comedy's sake)

I haven't played it either, but I heard... lessee... it's pretty much got the same camera control as EVERY OTHER 3D SONIC GAME, got the shooting, and has the emerald-search stages... although I dunno if they were any more or less bearable than SA2's.

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Also, they need to drop all these pointless characters and the story shit, the attempt at a story in any Sonic game is always horrible, they shouldn't even bother, nobody cares.

QFT. <3

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I've only played the Sonic Advance games briefly, but they were ok, nothing special though. Sonic Rush is awesome, it still doesn't touch the old Mega Drive Sonics but it doesn't try to, it's different, it has even more of a focus on speed than platforming, it all just flows so well, and while I didn't like the music at first, it's grown on me and goes well with the game. More folks need to get Sonic Rush to ensure a sequel, i'd buy Sonic Rush 2 in a heartbeat.

I can't comment much on those, since I don't have a DS (although I did enter a contest to win a DS Lite from the Japan launch off of a blog site... >_> <_<), but the Advance games were forgettable, IMO. I didn't like 'em much at all.

I was speaking idiomatically.

The last great game at least for me was Sonic 3 and Knuckles on the Genesis. That alone is a classic for me, one of the greatest I'll never forget.

Hell, and I played Sonic 2 for 6 hours back then too and beat it a couple of times. Good fucking times.

Nowadays, all these 3D renditions are horrible. This is one franchise that should've stayed to its 2D roots. Seriously.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Knuckles' 'hunt for urinal cake' levels in SA are just as bad as SA2's. Big the Cat's fishing objectives also rival Tails' robot levels in SA2 for stupidity. Seriously, it's Tails. Why is it that when you fall down a hole he just screams "I'M FALLING". GET OUT OF THE STUPID ROBOT AND FLY TO SAFETY. ;__;

FELIPE NO

Sonic games have always been horribly mediocre. You can't seriously consider the hold right and jump occasionally mechanics of the Mega Drive games to be decent. Every level was trial and error because you moved so fast that you'd never learn where the enemy, spikes, cliff was until you suffered it's effects. These were piss poor games and your hazy 8 year old, have never played a video game before, memories cloud you're judgement.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by RABicle

Sonic games have always been horribly mediocre. You can't seriously consider the hold right and jump occasionally mechanics of the Mega Drive games to be decent. Every level was trial and error because you moved so fast that you'd never learn where the enemy, spikes, cliff was until you suffered it's effects. These were piss poor games and your hazy 8 year old, have never played a video game before, memories cloud you're judgement.

You can't memorize where enemies are in Sonic games because you're running too fast? It wasn't consisted entirely of "hold right, jump" when you look at Sonic 3/Knuckles. Your objective was to, you know, find the oversized rings and complete the 3D sphere levels in order to get the chaos emeralds.

It's great to have you back.

Jam it back in, in the dark.