Chudah's Corner Closes; GFA Blamed [Update: CC is back up; more talks in progress]

It seems that Chudah, long a significant player in the VGM fan world, has decided to close her site.

This decision has generated an intense spate of drama over at Soundtrack Central, both in Chudah's announcement thread and another thread which blames Gamingforce Audio for the closure.

They're saying that the initial beta of GFA had some data and scans taken from Chudah without permission, and while some members of the project made conciliatory posts at STC, events and drama rapidly overtook this.

So, any thoughts on either Chudah's closure or the alleged GFA plagiarism? I for one am sorry to see her site go, as it was often my first destination for VGM material, but I can see how murky the waters are.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

I think that it's too much drama about an unfortunate but understandable happening. GFA wasn't careful or conscientious enough in what they uploaded (Chudah's work). That was a mistake on their part. But, Chudah shutting down suddenly and saying that she doesn't want to go on if her work is just going to get stolen by other sites is a bit overboard. Bigblah and Sensible Squirrel are reasonable people (as Goldfish noted in his post at STC). If she had simply contacted GFA and informed them of this issue, they would like have been able to work something out without all this public drama (whether it be agreeing to not use Chudah's scans, properly crediting Chudah on GFA for her work, or whatever).

Note that I am not very familiar with Chudah or even GFA, but this is just one relative outsider's perspective.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Lace mentioned this in chat today and I gotta say that these people over at STC blew this ridiculously out of proportion. I don't understand why so many people wedge themselves into an fight they don't have a dog in. Blah and SS have clearly been reasonable about this so far and, as far as I could extrapolate from the threads at STC, are working with Chudah to resolve this matter.

It's clear that the tertiary parties that completely blew this out of proportion (sup calling the GFA people "lowlife carpetbaggers and illegal mp3 hoarders") and are the ones that need to be held accountable for their forked tongues.

Also lav coming in with his (her?) on-the-fence argument was fucking classic too. Gotta give the boy(girl?) props for that one.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

pretty intense discussions.

sad to see it go as well.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Course, I was a little bit disturbed to see that GFA used stuff from CC without permission. I was under the impression that it was all scanned/translated with the hard work of the staff, really. But I'd rather not dwell on this; apologies/explanations have already been made (at STC), so there's no need to twist the knife.

But I have to say that I'm not really fond of how Zane started the discussion over there, as it seemed to be igniting the flame for an internet drama wildfire more than anything else. Still, since he's someone who contributed to CC, I can see how he'd respond like that.

Personally, I'm pretty hopeful about the whole scenario as of right now. Although the threads at STC have been going haywire, it seems less about the GFA plagiarism and more about Chudah's decision to shut the site down. Were I in her position, I'd probably do something similar. It's a pretty understandable course of action... I mean, I've never maintained a soundtrack database of that level, so I can only imagine the dedication that's needed for such a task. It doesn't seem like a permanent close, either, as some of Chudah's posts suggest. Methinks she just needs some time to think things through / chat with the GFA folks.

On that note, Bigblah and Secret Squirrel (and definitely other GFA staffers that I haven't included, but this is just because I don't recall seeing their posts at STC) have shown a respectable display of responsibility and level-headedness in my book. Not to mention that they've kept themselves out of the unnecessary drama floating around the threads in STC, which seems to be a smart move.

I'm sure some agreeable compromise can be worked out.

I was speaking idiomatically.

After reading the relevant posts, I've gained the impression that a few people have a pre-existing bias against Gamingforce, and GFA in particular. This grudge is what's fueling the current drama and inciting Chudah into rash decisions.

In the opening post, GFA was referred to as "lowlife carpetbaggers". Is that the sentiment of someone who truly wishes to see things amicably resolved? While this Zane fellow may perceive GFA as representative of everything that's wrong with the VGM community, his muckraking is no less destructive.

The support behind the anti-GFA rage seems to be nothing more than glorified, territorial pissings from little lapdogs who want to sound as though they have something important to say. Chudah's the only one with a legitimate gripe and it's saddening how others seem to pushing her toward further mistrust.

Chudah's work deserves to be notated, I agree. But this is very easily done and doesn't warrant the closure of an otherwise useful resource. To be honest, if no resolution can be found between GFA and Chudah, I'll personally hold the malcontent guttersnipes at STC responsible for fueling the angst behind all this.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

This is something SS and Blah need to work out with Chudah. No need for anyone else to even get involved.

FELIPE NO

Boy, Zane gets me worked up. I like he stirred up more drama right after SS and chudah agreed to come to some sort of resolution through email chat. Anyway, I find it to be a bit of an overreaction on her part. We never claimed any of her work to be ours and yet Zane made it sound like we stole everything from them for ourselves.

When you post information for the music community to use you should expect it at some point to be reposted somewhere else. That's why I'm kind of surprised that she decided to shut down her website, which people obviously love and use often, instead of bringing this to our attention. We're completely understanding people and are willing to make changes in order to satisfy everyone.

I'm not saying what we did was right either. We should have taken this problem into consideration since we do allow public submissions to the database (through our approval). But sheesh.

Anyway, Secret sent her an email. We'll just have to wait and see how things work out.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Kaleb.G

This is something SS and Blah need to work out with Chudah. No need for anyone else to even get involved.

Yes. And it would be HIGHLY ADVISABLE for everyone involved in Gamingforce Audio (or GFF as a whole, for that matter) to not develop a John Wayne complex and start posting at STC guns blazing and dicks swinging. This is a pretty serious issue and the last thing that the GFA project needs is for the situation to exacerbate because someone from here decided that belligerence was going to save the world.

Let the boys and girl work out the kinks and a reasonable and amicable solution is only a given with these kind souls.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Crash Landon

To be honest, if no resolution can be found between GFA and Chudah, I'll personally hold the malcontent guttersnipes at STC responsible for fueling the angst behind all this.

While I am neutral in the Chudah/GFA mess, I do have a request for anyone here: Please don't hold STC responsible for what Zane posted. He is only a recent member there and doesn't speak for anything resembling the majority there. He is only a staff member over at Chudah's Corner. What I'm not a fan of is why he opted to launch an inflammatory post against GFF from an otherwise neutral website, as opposed to CC or here. Well, I know why: No one goes to CC's forums (so naturally, no one would see the post) and it'd be a riot to do it here. But consider me more of an STC representative: I've been there regularly since 1998 and I still consider it more my home territory even since coming to GFF in 2004 (and even during a period where I was a staff member at CC). It's just a laid-back hole in the middle of the internet with about 30-40 regulars who have better things to do than decide why to hate Gamingforce.

So I'm just asking...Please don't turn this into a forum vs forum issue with STC when it's basically one person from another forum offering up inflammatory bait.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

You may have misunderstood, Goldfish. I said I'd hold the malcontent guttersnipes responsible, not STC itself. I realize it's the work of a few people and that they don't represent the opinions of the entire site.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Oh, I know...I just wanted to make it clear that was a single person and they were not only not representative of STC, they were only a more recent regular contributor to the forum. The people in this thread have more than a right to be upset, so I'm just directing traffic a little before anyone gets the wrong idea and incase anything gets out of hand.

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by Kaleb.G

This is something SS and Blah need to work out with Chudah. No need for anyone else to even get involved.

Quoted for absolute truth.

I can understand why Chudah would have the intention to close her site - I know I would do the same if I spent countless hours coding a database that had 400 soundtrack listings, complete with tracklists and scans, and all of it was stolen by another website. What I DON'T understand is why Chudah decided NOT to contact SS or Blah, but rather, publically announce the closure of her site and create a drama shitstorm. She could have kept the website open while she would then email GFA coordinators and if we didn't reply or we weren't reasonable, then she would have all reason to close down. But this is not the case.

It's unfortunate that some people aren't willing to work things out privately and instead start drama just to see what happens (looking at you, Zane).

But then there's the other side of the issue - Chudah's work is indeed copyrighted according to disclaimers posted on the pages of the site (I am assuming she ripped most of the album scans and translated most of the tracklistings herself. Correct me if I'm wrong). I think it was a serious mistake on our part that we didn't ask Chudah for permission to use her resources. But that's in the past anyway. What matters now is that SS and Blah are going to try to work something out with Chudah.

I hope for the best.

I was speaking idiomatically.

I feel absolutely saddened and disappointed by this huge debacle, mostly in part due to the flaming response that some members in the different "worlds" of the VGM universe have decided to pursue. I'm not necessarily talking about the moderators or the people in Gamingforce; after all, GFF was initially neutral in the discussion until someone pointed it out. There are just some people in the different forums who are solely biased against different groups.

Understandably, not everyone agrees with the opinions of different people. IE: I might like one track of music better than others, or I might frequent one location more than another. However, everyone is bonded together by a sole unique experience: the pursuit of the diversity and quality of game music as opposed to other forms of music. This by itself is particularly relevant, because it's not often that people hear an "oh, you love game music? I do too" in public.

This is why we must learn to disagree about our different opinions. Understandably, I have completely opposite views of music from others, and sometimes strongly defend my biases towards certain composers and styles of music. However, I do take everyone's opinion seriously and understand that others have their right to their own views. In the same way, I believe that we must learn to respect other peoples' views about their forums, and I'm a heavy participant in GFF simply because I believe that the forum is willing to accept opinions. Gamingforce NEVER fully anticipated this debacle, as it basically used the equivalent of an mp3-tag script to upload many of the translations, tracklists, lyrics, and scans to the server. I personally know bishop743, who was one of the most major participants in uploading lists to the server. He absolutely loves game music, and frequently rips for #gamemp3s as well as other sources. There is no reason why his, or any of the other GFF members' tracklists should suddenly be removed from the server. Rather, it is implausible to not use other sources in the construction of a database, because we're a community. If people publicly decide to release music in the form of a game album rip in order to share our interests, why should we be saddened if other people decide to use the same material to spread information about our community.

That is why I feel that Chudah's Corner should really be proud about their database. Honestly, if Gamingforce accidentally uses the same tracklist info and a few scans, I would be proud, because it would mean that my information has spread to the rest of the community. It is arrogant and somewhat demoralizing to have to keep a single database and assume that the database will be the only one that exists, and I don't believe that Chudah seriously thinks that way.

How ya doing, buddy?

Don't worry about Zane too much... he's just one of those types of people (anyone that has been to a normal high school knows what that means); not to mention he likes to consider himself very close to Chudah so it makes sense he would do such things. Although he was really out of line when he kept on going even after Squirrel and Blah posted their apologies.

It didn't help that other people just started joining in the debate too in an attempt to get both places to shut down.

But yeah just let the important people do what they gotta do to get things settled.

FELIPE NO

Mind if I add, in case my above post seemed somewhat biased towards anyone, but I think the best solution to this crisis is really what's going on right now. GFA will probably add some sort of member credit system to credit certain people for their hard work, and that will be that.

On the question of if GFF should continue to host the scans? I'd say yes, if credit was given to Chudah. It'd probably help decrease server costs on CC, and that would solve all the problems, especially with credit given.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Quote:

And now i guess we've had to put up with some dork on the Internet calling us carpet-baggers.

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clearly you have never spoken to the husband of someone who is addicted to pirating music in an unselfish attempt to fill their whole raid array

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I don't give a shit that you took down your site. If i needed covers or a track list for a game sound track, i would buy it. And i have. And so have a lot of the rest of these 'lowlife carpetbaggers and illegal MP3 hoarders'.

Mike already made this point but from, i think, the entirely wrong perspective -- #gamemp3s has been ripped off all kinds of times. We've had our stuff re-tagged, re-branded, even transcoded, and sold as someone else's. We've had our albums put up on different Web sites. We've had people bring down our servers because some jerk linked one of our files on a high-traffic site. We've had to put up with hosts dropping us. We've had to put up with people making ridiculous demands. And now i guess we've had to put up with some dork on the Internet calling us carpet-baggers.

And 'you know what'. Life is still worth this to us. We still purchase these albums ourselves, we still do a meticulous job ripping and distributing them, we still pay for all the hosting, we still do all the coding, we still do all the site maintenance, we still spend time with 'the community', and we continue to put up with all the crap that brings. The enjoyment we derive from just doing it is worth far more than any of the money we've spent, the time we've lost, or the good moods we've had ruined. I can't imagine that something this trivial could possibly affect a genuine motivation like this, never mind give us cause to shut down.

Anyone else think this Lavender cat is awesome?

My personal favourite bit so far is the comment about her family waiting for her and this little obsession. Bitch, STOP HURTING YOUR FAMILY FOR VGM. This is simple. Chudah and Zane both seem like fucking children not worth the effort. I appreciate Blah and SS' attempt to be decent about all this, but seriously. They need to grow up.

INTERNET. SERIOUS BUSINESS. Etc.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Jesus, great job guys. After all ther shit we (GFF's VGM fag population) have given ghoulies et al for issues like this you'd think that we'd actually have the sense not to copypasta or to at least give credit.

Well, now that CC's gone, GFA is only half as superfluous. Just as planned, am I right?

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Wonderful! I ever thought that our little VGM community needs a soap opera!

But sad about CC. ;(

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Given I have at least talked to people on both sides, and both sides have been reasonable, helpful, intelligent and kind, I doubt there can't be a solution found.

As stated previously, BigBlah, SS and Chudah need to talk and sort it all out. And that DISINCLUDES me, 99.9 % of members of GFF, 99.9% of members of Chudah's forums, and especially Zane.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Encephalon

Yes. And it would be HIGHLY ADVISABLE for everyone involved in Gamingforce Audio (or GFF as a whole, for that matter) to not develop a John Wayne complex and start posting at STC guns blazing and dicks swinging.

Not to mention, it would be like, the lamest "forum war" in the existence of the Internet.

WHOEVER WINS, THEY ALL LOSE.

I like how I can sum this up as "looooooooool, What a bunch of crybabies." What's next, Chudah seeing if Wikipedia has her scans in articles?

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by kuttlas

Well, now that CC's gone, GFA is only half as superfluous. Just as planned, am I right?

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

If Chudah is truly so selfless that she even neglects her family in favour of the game music community (hah hah), why such outrage about another site with a better-organized database making the materials available to more people? It's good for expanding the community.

Not that credit shouldn't be given where it's due, but seriously, way to overreact out of the blue.

FELIPE NO

I've only got a moment, but I wanted to thank you guys for being level-headed about this, and not inflaming the siutation any further. I've got meetings all morning, but I'll try to make full statement sometime soon.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Quote:

Not to mention, it would be like, the lamest "forum war" in the existence of the Internet.

Either this is saying nothing or everything.

Disclaimers to this post. I obviously have loyalties to Gamingforce, but I didn't work a lick on GFA myself. Minimal bias there. I do not mean to inflame, but this is the lightest way to put my opinion. I know not much about whatever faux net feud is going on here, but I do know this. Once you post something publicly on the internet, it spreads. Chudah, did you expect it not to?

I fail to wrap my head around this mentality. The idea that these things are protected under some sort of conditional sharing circumstances. You are not posting this stuff on a public website so that only your close and trusted cohorts can view it. It is now out there.

Artists in the fields of music, art, or literature deal with this regularly. Their original work. To see someone made a bold move of a statement over photos of things he/she bought is misguided to say the least, and I only edited out a stronger description not to look foolish after SS's post just above.

Not saying issue shouldn't be taken, but don't call the strike on and rally the troops for god's sake, how old are you to be taking your ball and going home? Sure, it's harsh to tell someone they're acting childish, but when it's the case, it should be said.

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