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UK Shits Bed Before US
From http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...049791,00.html
Jam it back in, in the dark. |
Because, you know ...
::noonecares:: Seriously now, we've grown too lazy to even criticize our governments anymore. It might involve physical action (by protesting in the streets). There's nowhere I can't reach. |
The government runs as though it were a democracy, but it hasn't been that way for a while now. All we have here is simply the route to make things go faster for the government. They're shedding their image of legitimacy in exchange for easier access to their power.
Besides, once you have all the power... who's going to stand up and stop you? This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it. |
The key of course, is actually giving a shit. Folks apparently were a lot less apathetic back in the 1700s. You don't actually have to put up with this kind of nonsense; all it takes is getting up off your ass and doing something about it. What I'M surprised about is that Parliament would even be considering such a bill. From there it's only a short step towards Parliament becoming completely redundant, and I guarantee none of them wants to be out of a job, or reduced to a whole assembly of figureheads. Not that I know anything about British politics apart from Tony Blair being just as deficient as Bush, but I doubt Parliament is that in thrall of the ministers. How ya doing, buddy? |
Scholeski |
With Tony Blair's majority almost being shot to pieces, there is not a hope that this would ever get passed the 2nd reading stage in the House of Commons. The man needed help from the opposition Tory party just last week to get bills pushed through because of the number of revolting MPs. Even if this does by some miracle, through a whole host of concessions does get through to the House Of Lords, that would be a roadblock right there. Being a citizen of the UK I have full faith in the House of Lords, who have not shrugged in the face of insurmountable pressure from the sleazy Labour government. The Law Lords would reject it straight away as they know this would undermine their supremacy in the English Legal System, they are old school and will never allow a challenge to their power. These last 3 years, the Law Lords have been the biggest road block in Tony Blair's plans, especially in regards to UK policy on dealing with terror suspects,Blair was defeated on deportation of terrorists to countries where they would be tortured for information, and on the propostion to hold terrorists for 3 months without charge. The last one in particular was seen as a purely humiliating loss. So you see he basically needs to assasinate all of the Lords and replace them with Blair ites to get this passed. I was speaking idiomatically.
Last edited by El Ray Fernando; Mar 21, 2006 at 11:16 AM.
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How ya doing, buddy? |
Scholeski |
Besides you don't have the House of Lords in the US, all it takes is a 'no' from them and Tony Blair would be humiliated......again. I reackon the bill will never actually be put forward, if Tony Blair did try it, he would probably face the biggest majority loss in English history, when it came to the vote in the Commons. His own back benchers and the oppostion parties would string him out to dry, even if he has a '3 line' party whip he would still not be able to generate enough 'aye's' to the left, and would have to relinquish his power immedeatly, as a vote of no confidence would be cast. FELIPE NO
Last edited by El Ray Fernando; Mar 21, 2006 at 11:32 AM.
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What, you don't want my bikini-clad body? |
Scholeski |
I'm heavily bias against this bill, but I totally agree in that, I would not be surprised if Bush and the US governement tried something like this before he leaves office, the same goes for Tony Blair, but I think he will chicken out and would rather leave office without such a humiliating loss in the Commons, especially after the loans for peerage scandal. The only thing is, I need to do a little more research on how you guys in the US scrutinse any 'proposed' primary and secondary legislation. In the UK we have the various reading stages of a Bill, and then the Law Lords. Who knows it may be good for my upcomming exams. Jam it back in, in the dark.
Last edited by El Ray Fernando; Mar 21, 2006 at 03:22 PM.
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He's right, this would never get passed. Even with all of Tony's cronies in the House of Lords, this is basically an undermining of the entire English democratic process. Even if a miracle occurred and this got as far as the Lords, they'd shoot it down in flames. Tony already looks like he's on his last legs, this would be a final nail in the coffin and he ain't that stupid.
There's nowhere I can't reach. |
Furthermore there's limits to how much power the British laws can be enacted. There's no such limits on recently passed legislation like the Patriot Act. President Bush has argued that he can strip citizenship from Americans, declare them to be "terrorists", and deny them their rights guaranteed by the Constitution and Geneva Conventions. Little bit more serious. Luckily for Bush, people are too stupid to know or understand their rights.
Most amazing jew boots |
Carob Nut |
I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body? |
I was speaking idiomatically. |
Am I the only one who notes the irony in a House of Lords defending democratic process?
What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now? |
It's not like our Congress is any different from a literal House of Lords, anyway.
FELIPE NO |
What, you don't want my bikini-clad body? |
Except for the minor difference of the Senate not being composed of titled nobility.
Jam it back in, in the dark. |
There's nowhere I can't reach. |
Which doesn't change the fact that they aren't entitled to their seats by virtue of being Kennedys or Rockefellers.
Also, there has only been one Senator Rockefeller. This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it. |
I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?
"You can't win, Pilate. If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."-Jesus
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I was speaking idiomatically. |
All you Americans out there reading this thread should get some kind of a laugh out of the fact that this is our supposed left-wing party. It just goes to show you that despite most people's flawed understanding of politics there are really two axes (at least) along which you need to plot the stance of a political party. The left-wing party we have in the UK are an authoritarian left-wing party, and they are not moderate on either axis. The opposing right-wing party are only moderately polarised towards authoritarian policies, but there is no mainstream libertarian element in British politics. Ain't that a stinker? Personally, if given the choice, I'd rather vote for a party that were moderate libertarians, and just left of centre on the progressive/conservative axis. That's just me though. I'm only one man. What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?
Last edited by Soluzar; Mar 22, 2006 at 12:51 AM.
Reason: Automerged double post.
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Sure it's not the "offical" policy, but give me a break. FELIPE NO |
I was about to say the same thing. If the name "Kennedy" doesn't entitle them to a seat in the Senate or House, their money sure does. We pretty much started out as a plutocracy, which is functionally no different from rule by nobles, and it's been that way ever since. The founding fathers weren't just a bunch of guys from the colonial ghetto, you know.
What, you don't want my bikini-clad body? |
Since the Lords reform bill of a few years back, peerages are no longer hereditary over here. The title passes to your kids but they don't get the right to sit in the House anymore.
Which hilariously is what led to the recent cash for peerages scandal. Opportunities to sit in the Lords come up a lot more frequently now and people are willing to "Loan" the government a load of cash for a title. Jam it back in, in the dark. |
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