[PC] World of Warcraft

Dragonmaw
Greyfell, 60 Orc Warrior


My guild is starting Blackwing Lair this Saturday. Should be fun.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Casuals going berserk over Naxxramas cracks me up. They make it seem like Blizzard threw it together last week after mailing bombs out to each and every one of them.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

From what I understand the expansion should have oodles of casual content. The game was released with less raid content than non-raid, and as such they made BWL, AQ40, Naxxramas. A lot of casuals can't seem to put the facts together somehow.

The casuals are correct in saying there isn't a whole lot for them to do at 60 that isn't a grind. Burning Crusade should fix that.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by dagget

Everything has been raid oriented since the inclusion of Dire Maul.

The game shipped with one raid dungeon. Raiders actually had far less content than the rest of the population but a lot of casuals can't seem to grasp that concept. They see Naxxramas being released in 1.11 and think it was created yesterday. Dungeons take quite some time to make.

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Hellfire Citadel is a 5-man dungeon.. that leads into a raid dungeon.

Last I heard there are three wings to it. Two are 5-10 man and one is 40 man.



I personally enjoy raiding quite a bit. Obviously raiding isn't your cup of tea since you seem to hate everything about it. The expansion should overflow with quests and content just for you. The raiding content they are adding to the current game was very much needed. If my guild and I still had only Molten Core to run after a year and a half I'd probably jump into traffic.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

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Of course there wasn't raid content when the game came out. It was marketed as a MMORPG unlike the rest in which you wouldn't have to raid to progress.

Actually, it was marketed as a game friendly to all walks of players. That would include raiders and non-raiders. Since raiding is not practical before level 60 you see a lot of 60 content in the form of raid dungeons.

Non-raiders can progress, although the gear from casual content is obviously not as great as many things from BWL and beyond. I agree that people who don't want to raid should have a couple more dungeons, but it's a little late in the development cycle for that. Even if they started on a 5 man dungeon two months ago it wouldn't be complete until after the expansion's launch. I'm sure Blizzard has learned from their mistakes in planning and are making sure the expansion casual friendly even at 70.

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Hell, people beat MC before Blizzard were ready for them to, infact I want to say the first guild that beat MC were banned or something. (Don't know how true it is, just what I've heard). You didn't expect to raid from day 1.

If you are counting Ragnaros in "beating" Molten Core then no, people did not do that before Blizzard wanted. Much like C'Thun, Ragnaros had to be nerfed several times before it was even possible to kill him. Other than Rag the instance is fairly straightforward. I've never heard of a guild getting banned for completing content, though.

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Yes, it takes a while for content to be created, and I realize that Naxx was talked about since the beginning, but that doesn't mean in the year and half the game has been out, the last 5-10 man dungeon created was like Dire Maul.

They're making new raid dungeons to even out the raid to non-raid ratio. Making more non-raid dungeons while working on raid dungeons would keep the ratio the same. Keep in mind Blizzard's staff is a finite resource.

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Raiders can't seem to grasp that not everyone wants to raid and that before 60, raiding wasn't necessary.

I realise not everyone wants to raid. Raid instances pre-60 makes little sense from a design perspective. Most raiders acknowledge that many don't like to raid. I see few casuals acknowledge the other portion of players who do.

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Oooh two wings. :\ Point is, if I want to experience the lore of the game, I'll have to just join a dumb hardcore raiding guild.

Do you think a god such as C'Thun or equally important beings should be killed in a 5 man? I don't mean that in any mocking way. I'm simply curious as to your opinion.

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Raiding becomes a problem, when people make it a chore. Rules about showing up, point-based "bartering" systems, people screaming at each other over vent. Fuck man, I've been told I need to go into a complete 51 point def spec because apparently if you have all 51 points into prot, it makes you a "better tank".

Other than what I assume is DKP (point-based "bartering" systems) it sounds like you were in a pretty crappy guild.

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This is a game, it shouldn't be treated like a chore. :\

I agree.

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Also, I never once said it wasn't needed, just that damn man. BWL/ZG/AQ20 and 40 all in a row.

I believe ZG and AQ20 are supposed to be aimed at the post-UBRS crowd who may not necessarily want to raid MC.

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PPS: You do realize that I'm just starting shit for teh sake of putting life back in this thread, right? :P Although I'm really pissed at the fact the game did a complete 180 and it is RAID or DIE at the end. :\

I'm simply having a friendly discussion. If anything I said came off as rude or angry I apologize.

I was speaking idiomatically.

I doubt Blizzard wants to deal with rabid casuals a second time over. I don't know how, but I'm betting level 70 will be a non-raider friendly place to be. At least until people find something new to complain about.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Paladin buffs > Shaman totems. Fights like the Twin Emps or C'Thun are fun examples of how poorly thought out totems were.

FELIPE NO

The Alliance race looks like it could either be non-mutated Draenei or Eradar. If those are indeed Eradar they would have to be explained exactly like the random guy guessed. That race is very evil and several stories tall. The supposed Alliance race in those pictures fits neither of those.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

My guild just got to Nefarian last night. Phase 1 is tricky

Jam it back in, in the dark.

As a raider myself, those mats look very easy to get. If 200g is a lot of money for people doing Naxxramas, they have some serious problems.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

I disagree. Mat requirements or not, the bosses in Naxxramas are not easy. There is nothing in there that equates to "easy epix." The raiders complaining are either 1. whiners that complain about everything or 2. frusterated about paying for more things on top of expensive repair bills, high level enchants, potions, etc. I can see exactly where the people in point #2 are coming from, it just doesn't bother me personally since I have no problem farming for gold/materials. Casual players and raiders whine in equal amounts. Usually the patch's content determines which whines louder.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

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I'm just trying to understand why it's ok for one way and not the other.

I never said it was. I said I can see where the complaining raiders are coming from. You don't have to agree with someone to understand their angle.

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They're actually going to have to work for this stuff by farming outside an instance and paying gold.

I think their arguement is that they already farm for a bunch of stuff. I personally spend a lot of time farming materials or gold for the vast amount of consumables I need in BWL and AQ40. I don't really mind the extra expense tier 3 requires as I have at least 1000g on me at all times. If I can pay 600g for a Lionheart Helm I'm sure I can spare a couple hundred for a dungeon set. :P

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Nothing is more fun than wiping on a boss because the fucking totems aggro'd something. Those are the things shamans wanted the developers to look at. It's like Blizzard threw darts at a big list of shaman issues and they landed everywhere except where the community wanted.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Talbain

Rolling Alliance just because Horde doesn't look pretty is typical of players that don't realize what they're getting into.

Give Horde a chance. All of my experiences with a Horde character have been far above and beyond anything I've done on Alliance.

This man wins the prize.

Back in the day on our server the Alliance side would pretty much shut down around 9 PM or so. This was only during the school year. I lol'd.


@Zio: Try learning about the subject before making a giant, rambling post.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by dagget

I'm pretty sure Blizzard is going to start forcing warriors to be protection. Much like the new Druid set (Dreamwalker or whatever it is called) have all healing bonuses. Druids are being forced into healing.

The set doesn't force you into anything. When I need to tank I put on my Wrath set. When I DPS I put on my DPS set made up of the random DPS drops. The official tier sets are made to enchance your primary role in a raid. If someone doesn't find themself in that role very often then they probably shouldn't use that set.

Furthermore, Dreadnaught is 100% badass for tanking. The eight piece bonus is insane. After the prot warriors have their pieces I'm going to snatch that shit up. This is coming from an armys/fury warrior.

FELIPE NO

The scourge invasion is a terrible excuse for a world event but an excellent source of Argent Dawn reputation. Get a group together and you'll rocket through the ranks.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

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1) What are the perks of Ardent Dawn rep? I'm about halfway through Honored currently. I constantly see people go frothing mad about getting rep increases with them

The people grinding the rep either want free attunement to Naxxramas or the exalted shoulder enchants or both. Also I believe you can get craftable frost resistence pieces at revered/exalted.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

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Also, that's another reason I hate DKP. It involves no effort at all. People will show up, go AFK the whole fight while having it set to follow someone and only pop up during boss fights, or shortly after they go down.

That sounds more like a crappy guild than a problem with DKP.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Gechmir

THREE HOURS to kill the Serpent, Bat, & Spider bosses. THREE HOURS. Hell, probably closer to four now that I think about it.

Holy shit.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Good god, that's a lot of chat for ZG. It's like the opposite of my Ragnaros explanation to the guild back in the day.

"DPS Rag."

"And then what?"

"DPS the sons."

"Is that all?"

"Uh.... don't die."

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

I wish Intercept removed snares.

How ya doing, buddy?

Setting up a fancy UI is giving me a headache. It's hard working with 1024x768.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by dagget

I know because of the way I play and think, I'll probably never see the inside of BWL.

How do you play and think?

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by dagget

I play casual and I hate DKP.

That'll do it.

Most amazing jew boots

50-60 is the easiest crap ever. Just live inside Stratholme or something and you'll blast through it.

Jam it back in, in the dark.