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What is it in game music that you like so much and how could it be better?
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Rimo
Rise Above It


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Mar 2006


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Old Apr 3, 2008, 12:38 PM #1 of 14
What is it in game music that you like so much and how could it be better?

Since game music is so diverse and that there are so many different reasons to love it (or hate it!), I'm trying to figure what could be general trends in VGM aficionados. I'm quite curious about discovering the opinion of others on some questions I've be asking myself, but this survey also has an ultimate goal: depict a global picture of what people want to hear and then present it to various game producers and composers, which might influence them to a certain degree. This is related to the fact that I'm not fully satisfied with all of the music heard in games these days, and I believe I'm not the only one feeling this way.

To avoid the discussion to go in all directions at once, here's a list of questions you could try your hand at. If you'd like to add anything else beside your answers or if you'd prefer to reply without following these questions directly, please go ahead. Also, don't hesitate to give specific examples of soundtracks or artists if these could add to the precision.

1. If you had to describe what VGM is to someone ignorant on the subject, what would you say?

2. Why do you listen to game music on a stand-alone basis? What elements do you like or dislike from it?

3. Do you listen to music from games you haven't played?

4. What percentage does VGM represent on your playlist vs. non-game music? If applicable, what kind of music do you listen to outside of VGM? If you don't listen to mainstream music (i.e. not VGM, film, or anime soundtracks), why is that so?

5. How do you feel about music that was not published as an official album? How much of a problem is it to you if you want to listen to it? Also, do you actually buy official albums or strictly download them illegally (or a mix of both)? Do you think these albums are adequately priced?

6. Which genres/styles do you mainly listen to? Which do you avoid?

7. If one of these genres also exists in non-game music, do you also listen to it from that category? If not, why?

8. Video gaming had a reputation for a long time of being a childish or geeky hobby, and a part of it persists today. Inevitably, to a certain extent, the music also fell under this denigrative categorization (especially retro chiptunes). Do you think VGM is as valid as any other music from a listener's point of view? Additionally, are you fully comfortable about mentioning you listen to VGM when you discuss with someone who isn't into gaming?

9. How would you compare game music from the past (aka chiptunes, up to the SNES era) and modern material?

10. During its infancy, VGM was unique in part because of its electronic sound coming from limited sound chips. Today, any kind of instruments can be used and thus this uniqueness doesn't always persist. Do you believe VGM should sound different from other music categories? If so, how could this be achieved nowadays?

11. Most gamers don't particularly care about game music (or at least, to the extent we do). Thus, it's most probably not part of their playlists. Some producers believe that players would prefer to hear their favorite mainstream songs while playing rather than original music, hence the use of licensed material. What is your opinion about this?

12. Other producers, which aren't as radical, may still hire a composer, yet ask him/her to create something that sounds extremely close to popular music. This does not make highly unique VGM, yet it can still be very enjoyable and is a creative process. Do you see a problem in this?

13. A popular trend these days (notably in the West) is to make games that are very cinematic in nature, mimicking Hollywood down to the use of (usually) orchestral cinematic music. How do you feel about this? Since these two media are converging when it comes to telling a story on screen, should games (and their music) be any different from films? If so, how?

14. Certain producers and composers believe that the perfect music should not be noticeable unless it's not there. Another way to formulate this would be to say that the music shouldn't be in the forefront to avoid distracting the player. In practice, this often results in the use of an adaptative music system, playing an ambient (see "usually unmelodic") track when nothing special is going on and then loading a more dynamic cue when action kicks in. When listened to on a stand alone basis, these soundtracks often make an inconsistent experience (unless for huge ambient fans). What do you think about this?

15. VGM is inevitably linked to the games it comes from. In fact, it's created to suit them in the first place! Is there any soundtrack which you regard very lowly from a listener point of view, but that you found worked well in-game? If possible, how could it have been more enjoyable to listen to while still working as well in-game?

16. Do you think there is too much music sounding the same? If so, could this be because there are too many similar games? If the games weren't to change, how could the music become different without sounding out of place?

17. Do you notice any difference between VGM created in Japan, America and Europe? If so, what does one do better or worse than the others, and vice versa?

18. VGM is a lot more popular in Japan than it is in the West, with album releases being a good indicator. How could things get better in the West on that matter?

19. If you had to sum up in three words what you expect from VGM, which would you choose?

I'm aware that each of these questions could have generated a whole discussion on its own and that presenting them together in a single thread will make it heavy to discuss as a whole. However, I believe they are part of the same debate and will all add something to the subject. If you prefer answering a few at a time or skipping any, no problem. I'll be giving my opinion on them myself later.

This survey will be posted over at STC as well. If you believe it would be pertinent to post elsewhere, let me know.

Thanks and here's to more enjoyable game music!

Jam it back in, in the dark.
orion_mk3
Rogues do it from behind.


Member 1865

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Mar 2006


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Old Apr 3, 2008, 01:31 PM #2 of 14
1. If you had to describe what VGM is to someone ignorant on the subject, what would you say?
It's music composed especially for video games and interactive entertainment. I'd make sure to be clear on the difference between original songs and licensed tracks (which I don't consider VGM).

2. Why do you listen to game music on a stand-alone basis? What elements do you like or dislike from it?
I listen to VGM because I play video games; exposure to games is what has introduced me to most of the composers I follow. There's also the sheer volume of material produced--for instance, a major band might release one album every 1-2 years, while a VGM composer might do anywhere from 2-10 games a year (with 70+ minutes of music per project many times!).

3. Do you listen to music from games you haven't played?
Yes. Often it's because I'm a fan of a particular composer, but occasionally games with terrific music aren't playable for one reason or another (never localized, suckage of donkey testicles, etc.). It also takes a lot less time to scan through a playlist of VGM than it does to play, and beat, a game. But I always like music that I've heard in context better.

4. What percentage does VGM represent on your playlist vs. non-game music? If applicable, what kind of music do you listen to outside of VGM? If you don't listen to mainstream music (i.e. not VGM, film, or anime soundtracks), why is that so?
I'd say my playlist is 50-60% VGM, with 30-40% film and the remainder pop or techno. I don't generally listen to mainstream stuff because it typically bores me; the amount of sameness in modern pop is sickening.

5. How do you feel about music that was not published as an official album? How much of a problem is it to you if you want to listen to it? Also, do you actually buy official albums or strictly download them illegally (or a mix of both)? Do you think these albums are adequately priced?
I do wish more albums of VGM would be produced. I understand that it's not always economically feasible, but even a digital download or free tracks at a composer's site would be something. This isn't a huge problem, as enthusiast game rippers are extremely diligent in getting the material out there. I prefer to buy when I can, but this isn't always an economic reality--Japanese imports in particular are ludicrously overpriced, while domestic releases tend to be more sane.

6. Which genres/styles do you mainly listen to? Which do you avoid?
I tend to like orchestral and techno, though there are great songs from every genre in VGM. In general, I dislike stuff that sounds too much like popular music, whatever the genre, but especially rap.

7. If one of these genres also exists in non-game music, do you also listen to it from that category? If not, why?
Yes, I collect film scores (which are extremely similar to VGM on many levels), and have some techno albums, though I find the recent trend toward trance disturbing.

8. Video gaming had a reputation for a long time of being a childish or geeky hobby, and a part of it persists today. Inevitably, to a certain extent, the music also fell under this denigrative categorization (especially retro chiptunes). Do you think VGM is as valid as any other music from a listener's point of view? Additionally, are you fully comfortable about mentioning you listen to VGM when you discuss with someone who isn't into gaming?
VGM is as valid as any other form; its diversity means that there's literally something for everyone. I will admit that I get uncomfortable discussing VGM with people unfamiliar with it; this is one of the things that led me to GFF.

9. How would you compare game music from the past (aka chiptunes, up to the SNES era) and modern material?
They're judged by different standards; I love many chiptunes and many songs played on real instruments. I think a lot of this has to do with what one was exposed to early on; my first console was an NES, so I'm used to 8-bit sounds as well as the later CD-quality stuff found in the Nintendo Playbox 360.

10. During its infancy, VGM was unique in part because of its electronic sound coming from limited sound chips. Today, any kind of instruments can be used and thus this uniqueness doesn't always persist. Do you believe VGM should sound different from other music categories? If so, how could this be achieved nowadays?
I think that it can sound different, but that doesn't mean it must. There's certainly a lot more room for people to experiment in combining unique sounds, which is great. But traditional is fine too.

11. Most gamers don't particularly care about game music (or at least, to the extent we do). Thus, it's most probably not part of their playlists. Some producers believe that players would prefer to hear their favorite mainstream songs while playing rather than original music, hence the use of licensed material. What is your opinion about this?
Licensed music is the devil. I think it should be confined to games that have broad but shallow appeal, if that. If given the choice, I always want to hear stuff that was written specifically for a game. Why not hire a popular group to do an original song for your game, if your music budget is that big?

12. Other producers, which aren't as radical, may still hire a composer, yet ask him/her to create something that sounds extremely close to popular music. This does not make highly unique VGM, yet it can still be very enjoyable and is a creative process. Do you see a problem in this?
Not so much. Due to the huge volume of music that's created, there's always gonna be some derivative stuff. If it fits well and is fun without directly plagiarizing, no harm no foul.

13. A popular trend these days (notably in the West) is to make games that are very cinematic in nature, mimicking Hollywood down to the use of (usually) orchestral cinematic music. How do you feel about this? Since these two media are converging when it comes to telling a story on screen, should games (and their music) be any different from films? If so, how?
It's only relatively recently that the technology has even been capable of this sound, so it seems to me a natural trend (though certainly not confined to the West). Since I also collect film music, I have no problem with this. It doesn't automatically make the music good, and I don't think it's right for every game, but if it fits, why not? Some games are inherently filmic.

14. Certain producers and composers believe that the perfect music should not be noticeable unless it's not there. Another way to formulate this would be to say that the music shouldn't be in the forefront to avoid distracting the player. In practice, this often results in the use of an adaptative music system, playing an ambient (see "usually unmelodic") track when nothing special is going on and then loading a more dynamic cue when action kicks in. When listened to on a stand alone basis, these soundtracks often make an inconsistent experience (unless for huge ambient fans). What do you think about this?
I think that dynamic music is the most exciting possibility for VGM as distinct from any other form. It's tough to write something that can change at any time due to player input, and it's completely different than writing for films or popular songs. The problem is listening to the stuff apart from the game without the dynamic changes. Ideally the music would be arranged for an album, but such is sadly not always the case.

15. VGM is inevitably linked to the games it comes from. In fact, it's created to suit them in the first place! Is there any soundtrack which you regard very lowly from a listener point of view, but that you found worked well in-game? If possible, how could it have been more enjoyable to listen to while still working as well in-game?
Generally this is true for highly ambient scores (Silent Hill comes to mind). Super-ambient and industrial tracks can work wonders for a setting yet lose their appeal when divorced from it.

16. Do you think there is too much music sounding the same? If so, could this be because there are too many similar games? If the games weren't to change, how could the music become different without sounding out of place?
There are many similar games with a lot of similar music. Such is true in films and popular music too--it's just the nature of the beast. You don't always have to do something startlingly original to be effective (though it helps!).

17. Do you notice any difference between VGM created in Japan, America and Europe? If so, what does one do better or worse than the others, and vice versa?
I enjoy it all. Japanese stuff tends to be very lush yet almost invariably synthesized, while Western stuff has a split personality, with some marvelous live stuff right alongside droning trash. There are plenty of good and bad composers and good and bad scores on both sides of the pond.

18. VGM is a lot more popular in Japan than it is in the West, with album releases being a good indicator. How could things get better in the West on that matter?
More album releases! People can't buy and appreciate what isn't for sale. I have trouble understanding why Puki Poyo Umbrella Drink Attack! gets a full 5-disc OST release, while western scores (even those by "name" artists) get squat.

19. If you had to sum up in three words what you expect from VGM, which would you choose?
More diverse music.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Last edited by orion_mk3; Apr 4, 2008 at 01:46 PM.
Golfdish from Hell
Screaming for Vengeance


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Mar 2006


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Old Apr 3, 2008, 03:27 PM #3 of 14
Answering here because the quote tags here are easier to work with than at STC!

Quote:
1. If you had to describe what VGM is to someone ignorant on the subject, what would you say?
Original music that appears in a videogame and was composed for the sole purpose of appearing in the game. I would be careful to differentiate between licensed music that appears.

Quote:
2. Why do you listen to game music on a stand-alone basis? What elements do you like or dislike from it?
Always liked it. I'm a fan of anthems (wrestling entrances), so having a memorable, high-energy tune accompany the action onscreen is highly appealing to me and adds to the impact of the visuals and gameplay, because the music is also vying for attention. I tend to enjoy the sounds of many chiptunes as well as many instruments, so old-school tunes tend to have that unique charm to them as well. I dislike mood music and music I don't care for, but is supposedly "musically" superior to others (cue laughter).

Quote:
3. Do you listen to music from games you haven't played?
Many.

Quote:
4. What percentage does VGM represent on your playlist vs. non-game music? If applicable, what kind of music do you listen to outside of VGM? If you don't listen to mainstream music (i.e. not VGM, film, or anime soundtracks), why is that so?
Metal/hard rock. I enjoy music that does away with being subtle and makes itself known to all. VGM is probably 30% of what I listen to now, but that is because I scaled back drastically and only listen to the percentage I can honestly say I have an emtional attachment to (whether it be from the music or nostalgia). Very few new soundtracks hold any appeal to me...The majority of this 30% is 16 bit and earlier music or arranged stuff.

Quote:
5. How do you feel about music that was not published as an official album? How much of a problem is it to you if you want to listen to it? Also, do you actually buy official albums or strictly download them illegally (or a mix of both)? Do you think these albums are adequately priced?
I download and buy whatever I feel deserves my money. No problems if the gamerip is good (I still use a rip of the Valkyrie Profile OST, because the tracks loop twice).

Quote:
6. Which genres/styles do you mainly listen to? Which do you avoid?
Anything melodic or at least that has a decent riff or solo is fine with me. I've grown away from a lot of electronica and have never liked any sort of ambient music.

Quote:
7. If one of these genres also exists in non-game music, do you also listen to it from that category? If not, why?
Yes.

Quote:
8. Video gaming had a reputation for a long time of being a childish or geeky hobby, and a part of it persists today. Inevitably, to a certain extent, the music also fell under this denigrative categorization (especially retro chiptunes). Do you think VGM is as valid as any other music from a listener's point of view? Additionally, are you fully comfortable about mentioning you listen to VGM when you discuss with someone who isn't into gaming?
Yes. I feel better about it nowadays, because it seems retro is cooler than it once was.

Quote:
9. How would you compare game music from the past (aka chiptunes, up to the SNES era) and modern material?
Very few modern soundtracks hold any appeal to me. I feel the scene is very dry right now and lacks any kind of excitement. Many soundtracks I listen to are 16 bit and prior or arranged stuff.

Quote:
10. During its infancy, VGM was unique in part because of its electronic sound coming from limited sound chips. Today, any kind of instruments can be used and thus this uniqueness doesn't always persist. Do you believe VGM should sound different from other music categories? If so, how could this be achieved nowadays?
Depends...Chip music isn't good by virtue of being chip music. It's the composition that matters. I do think a lot of composers ended making good music by fighting the limitations imposed on them by the sound systems. With a lot more freedom, I think a lot of composers are exposed to not be as great as once thought.

Quote:
11. Most gamers don't particularly care about game music (or at least, to the extent we do). Thus, it's most probably not part of their playlists. Some producers believe that players would prefer to hear their favorite mainstream songs while playing rather than original music, hence the use of licensed material. What is your opinion about this?
In the past, I'd say I couldn't fathom the idea of replacing the original music. However, nowadays, most of the original music isn't worth keeping and is mass produced garbage (eyes Basicscape), so...

Quote:
12. Other producers, which aren't as radical, may still hire a composer, yet ask him/her to create something that sounds extremely close to popular music. This does not make highly unique VGM, yet it can still be very enjoyable and is a creative process. Do you see a problem in this?
There's nothing wrong with popular music if it sounds good. Uniqueness is overrated if it's not enjoyable to listen to.

Quote:
13. A popular trend these days (notably in the West) is to make games that are very cinematic in nature, mimicking Hollywood down to the use of (usually) orchestral cinematic music. How do you feel about this? Since these two media are converging when it comes to telling a story on screen, should games (and their music) be any different from films? If so, how?
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Quote:
14. Certain producers and composers believe that the perfect music should not be noticeable unless it's not there. Another way to formulate this would be to say that the music shouldn't be in the forefront to avoid distracting the player. In practice, this often results in the use of an adaptative music system, playing an ambient (see "usually unmelodic") track when nothing special is going on and then loading a more dynamic cue when action kicks in. When listened to on a stand alone basis, these soundtracks often make an inconsistent experience (unless for huge ambient fans). What do you think about this?
This is why I think it's important to have the ability to input licensed music or other VGM, due to the silliness of this practice.

Quote:
15. VGM is inevitably linked to the games it comes from. In fact, it's created to suit them in the first place! Is there any soundtrack which you regard very lowly from a listener point of view, but that you found worked well in-game? If possible, how could it have been more enjoyable to listen to while still working as well in-game?
Street Fighter III: 3rd Strike is something that drives me up a wall on its' own, but it's good for getting in the zone ingame. The individual tracks didn't distinguish themselves very well, losing the anthem effect of prior games.

Quote:
16. Do you think there is too much music sounding the same? If so, could this be because there are too many similar games? If the games weren't to change, how could the music become different without sounding out of place?
Yes, but this is true in all music. There are definitely too many similar games (looks at FPS genre).

Quote:
17. Do you notice any difference between VGM created in Japan, America and Europe? If so, what does one do better or worse than the others, and vice versa?
I like very little American VGM. Most of what I listened to growing up was Japanese, although Japanese VGM is pretty stagnant right now as well. I have nothing more to say about this...It's just how things have worked out.

Quote:
18. VGM is a lot more popular in Japan than it is in the West, with album releases being a good indicator. How could things get better in the West on that matter?
Make music I want to hear and release the albums for it.

Quote:
19. If you had to sum up in three words what you expect from VGM, which would you choose?
Melody, nostalgia, excitement.

How ya doing, buddy?
I'm taking over this town...
I'm screaming for vengenace...
I'm shouting at the devil...
I'm not dead and I'm not for sale...
Ain't lookin' for nothin' but a good time...

Last edited by Golfdish from Hell; Apr 3, 2008 at 03:33 PM.
Put Balls
i


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Old Apr 3, 2008, 04:07 PM Local time: Apr 3, 2008, 11:07 PM #4 of 14
I'll just answer these questions, since I'm in no mood for any coherent thoughts on the subject.

Quote:
1. If you had to describe what VGM is to someone ignorant on the subject, what would you say?
Music. From games. (Why bother frillying it up with things like "nostalgia" and "appreciation of music as is", when those are quite point strangers among many vgm listeners, unfortunately.)

Quote:
2. Why do you listen to game music on a stand-alone basis? What elements do you like or dislike from it?
When I was younger and more stupid, I'd listen to practically everything. That really frustrated me, because I found maybe 2% of vgm good enough for a second listen. Now I just listen to the good old soundtracks and try out a small portion of new interesting stuff from reliable composers. So, I heart some (usually generally popular, and for a reason) composers and hate most of their fans.

Quote:
3. Do you listen to music from games you haven't played?
Yes. Why not.

Quote:
4. What percentage does VGM represent on your playlist vs. non-game music? If applicable, what kind of music do you listen to outside of VGM? If you don't listen to mainstream music (i.e. not VGM, film, or anime soundtracks), why is that so?
About 10% nowadays. Outside vgm, I listen to almost everything "genre"-wise, inside vgm not so much (I hate most of vgm rock, for instance, and for a reason). That is so, because I like good music with whatever means it is conveyed.

Quote:
5. How do you feel about music that was not published as an official album? How much of a problem is it to you if you want to listen to it? Also, do you actually buy official albums or strictly download them illegally (or a mix of both)? Do you think these albums are adequately priced?
I don't understand the first question. If it's talking about game rips, sure I listen to a few. Why would listening such be a problem for me? I sample the album (by listening to it completely) and decide if it's worth putting money into. Usually it's not good enough. I don't really care about the prices anymore now that dollar has continued to sink notably for around seven years. Everything's becoming more and more dirty cheap for euro users.

Quote:
6. Which genres/styles do you mainly listen to? Which do you avoid?
Inside vgm? I'm not much into styles in vgm. I just like most of the work of certain composers, and some of them can be VERY versatile. And I try to avoid vgm rock, just because it's so bad.

Quote:
7. If one of these genres also exists in non-game music, do you also listen to it from that category? If not, why?
Usually the vgm equivalent of a particular genre is crappier than that of non-game music, but I just give vgm lower standards and cut some slack to make it listenable again.

Quote:
8. Video gaming had a reputation for a long time of being a childish or geeky hobby, and a part of it persists today. Inevitably, to a certain extent, the music also fell under this denigrative categorization (especially retro chiptunes). Do you think VGM is as valid as any other music from a listener's point of view? Additionally, are you fully comfortable about mentioning you listen to VGM when you discuss with someone who isn't into gaming?
It's not childish anymore, that p.o.w. has diminished a lot over the years around here. Excessive gaming, however, is still considered very nerdy and geeky, but so what? | Vgm is an acquired taste. I couldn't really recommend the general portion of it to a person outside the gaming loop or even to a casual gamer. | Because my musical taste spectrum is quite broad, I don't feel the need to tell everyone EVERYTHING I like listening to. People who need to know or would even want to understand, do. It would just overly confuse some people, if I told them I like some Madonna albums, for instance. Schitzophrenics of music should indeed be careful.

Quote:
9. How would you compare game music from the past (aka chiptunes, up to the SNES era) and modern material?
Today, more emphasis on the means (unfortunately) and less on the oversimplification of content. And I can't compare them. And the transformation from "chiptune" to "modern" isn't even that unambiguous, so this question doesn't deserve an answer.

Quote:
10. During its infancy, VGM was unique in part because of its electronic sound coming from limited sound chips. Today, any kind of instruments can be used and thus this uniqueness doesn't always persist. Do you believe VGM should sound different from other music categories? If so, how could this be achieved nowadays?
Yes. And this is "achieved" quite naturally. It just is of a different standard, which always sets it apart. And yes, it should sound different. If it didn't, I'd throw it away it completely and switch wholly to non-game music.

Quote:
11. Most gamers don't particularly care about game music (or at least, to the extent we do). Thus, it's most probably not part of their playlists. Some producers believe that players would prefer to hear their favorite mainstream songs while playing rather than original music, hence the use of licensed material. What is your opinion about this?
I hate the use of the word mainstream, when something is opposed to soundtrack music. And sure, why not implement this "mainstream" music if it's good. In most action and racing games it gives off a better overall mood while playing than music composed solely for the game ever could, anyway.

Quote:
12. Other producers, which aren't as radical, may still hire a composer, yet ask him/her to create something that sounds extremely close to popular music. This does not make highly unique VGM, yet it can still be very enjoyable and is a creative process. Do you see a problem in this?
Wrong. This makes some highly unique vgm, but not very unique in a larger scale. No problem at all, though, since vgm is a smaller sentience and even bad music can sometimes be enjoyed while playing a game.

Quote:
13. A popular trend these days (notably in the West) is to make games that are very cinematic in nature, mimicking Hollywood down to the use of (usually) orchestral cinematic music. How do you feel about this? Since these two media are converging when it comes to telling a story on screen, should games (and their music) be any different from films? If so, how?
Games include some interaction between the player and the game. Films usually don't. This is a definition as clear as a day. If the game is supposed to be cinematic in nature, then I think the music usually should at least try to fit the mood. Games and films aren't that different, though, so I still don't see any problems.

Quote:
14. Certain producers and composers believe that the perfect music should not be noticeable unless it's not there. Another way to formulate this would be to say that the music shouldn't be in the forefront to avoid distracting the player. In practice, this often results in the use of an adaptative music system, playing an ambient (see "usually unmelodic") track when nothing special is going on and then loading a more dynamic cue when action kicks in. When listened to on a stand alone basis, these soundtracks often make an inconsistent experience (unless for huge ambient fans). What do you think about this?
If the music is not noticeable, it's either bad or not turned loud enough. | Dynamics and seemless transition in music during play of game, yes (see e.g. Shadow of the Colossus).

Quote:
15. VGM is inevitably linked to the games it comes from. In fact, it's created to suit them in the first place! Is there any soundtrack which you regard very lowly from a listener point of view, but that you found worked well in-game? If possible, how could it have been more enjoyable to listen to while still working as well in-game?
Kooji Kondoo's music is impossible to listen on its own, but it fits the childish games well enough to not be irritating there.

Quote:
16. Do you think there is too much music sounding the same? If so, could this be because there are too many similar games? If the games weren't to change, how could the music become different without sounding out of place?
WHAT. I don't understand this. I can't really find two too similar soundtracks even if the games were about the same.

Quote:
17. Do you notice any difference between VGM created in Japan, America and Europe? If so, what does one do better or worse than the others, and vice versa?
Japanese music has catchy melodies, but usually lacks in mood when it comes to something that isn't completely over-the-top cheery. Western music is the polar opposite sometimes. I guess those are the main contenders for me in mainstream game music.

Quote:
18. VGM is a lot more popular in Japan than it is in the West, with album releases being a good indicator. How could things get better in the West on that matter?
The game publishers could finally start noticing that people really listen to video game music as standalone music. Then I'd finally get my Spyro the Dragon and Ratchet & Clank Original Complete Soundtracks. Yes, indeed.

Quote:
19. If you had to sum up in three words what you expect from VGM, which would you choose?
"Pre-listen, not much." It's always nice to be positively surprised when listening to vgm.

Yes, I'm cynical about vgm. Boo. Hoo. I'll always love vgm for being the bastard son of the music family it clearly is, though. <3

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datschge
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Old Apr 3, 2008, 09:27 PM Local time: Apr 4, 2008, 03:27 AM #5 of 14
1. If you had to describe what VGM is to someone ignorant on the subject, what would you say?

Sounds from interactive media, usually instrumentals. Classically highly melodic. Often compared to movie music, but it differs insofar as it can have a much higher impact of (and for) immersing into a fantasy world if correctly used.

2. Why do you listen to game music on a stand-alone basis? What elements do you like or dislike from it?

Music styles/genres not served sufficiently elsewhere.

3. Do you listen to music from games you haven't played?

The majority of VGM I listen to is from games I'll never play.

4. What percentage does VGM represent on your playlist vs. non-game music? If applicable, what kind of music do you listen to outside of VGM? If you don't listen to mainstream music (i.e. not VGM, film, or anime soundtracks), why is that so?

If ignoring (baroque) classic and jazz, nearly 100%. I feel that mainstream music tends to be overenginered away from actual music toward superficial production value, limiting itself to what easily sells.

5. How do you feel about music that was not published as an official album? How much of a problem is it to you if you want to listen to it? Also, do you actually buy official albums or strictly download them illegally (or a mix of both)? Do you think these albums are adequately priced?

Considering I run snesmusic.org (and try to support emulated VGM archives for other systems than SNES) I guess I actively promote music that was not published as an album. For me it makes zero difference whether VGM got an "official" release or not, it's cultural work, likely the biggest constant source of newly composed music nowadays, and I consider it a necessity to respect it as such and preserve it for the future.

6. Which genres/styles do you mainly listen to? Which do you avoid?

I'm pretty focussed on baroque and it modern siblings (jazz, prog, experimental melodic electronica) nowadays.

7. If one of these genres also exists in non-game music, do you also listen to it from that category? If not, why?

I try to, but for me there are more misses outside games media than makes me feel worth the effort.

8. Video gaming had a reputation for a long time of being a childish or geeky hobby, and a part of it persists today. Inevitably, to a certain extent, the music also fell under this denigrative categorization (especially retro chiptunes). Do you think VGM is as valid as any other music from a listener's point of view? Additionally, are you fully comfortable about mentioning you listen to VGM when you discuss with someone who isn't into gaming?

Naturally. Music is music is music. But it's also natural for people to question new and experimental takes outside of what they usually expect. The medium "game" constantly changed the technical circumstances for music in its rather short lifetime, so unlike the other entertainment medium "movie" it didn't have the time to gain common respect for a specific constant quality.

9. How would you compare game music from the past (aka chiptunes, up to the SNES era) and modern material?

For a long time music styles and genres for the medium "game" were defined through technical limitations, usually putting the focus purely on compositions (think baroque). Nowadays the limitations are more and more lifted, so the performance aspect is more and more dominant (this is a rather usual occurant in music history).

10. During its infancy, VGM was unique in part because of its electronic sound coming from limited sound chips. Today, any kind of instruments can be used and thus this uniqueness doesn't always persist. Do you believe VGM should sound different from other music categories? If so, how could this be achieved nowadays?

No. VGM shouldn't differ just for the sake of it. However different synthesiser, just like any instrument, ask for specific treatments. This can result in new styles and genres, and those deserve to be preserved. But this is in no way limited to the medium "game".

11. Most gamers don't particularly care about game music (or at least, to the extent we do). Thus, it's most probably not part of their playlists. Some producers believe that players would prefer to hear their favorite mainstream songs while playing rather than original music, hence the use of licensed material. What is your opinion about this?

Altogether I don't believe movie goers or TV watchers care proportionally more about the music during the visuals than gamers would. In visual media music becomes especially memorable in key scenes if done right, this is true regardless of movies, TV shows or games. There reportedly is a lack of respect for music on the side of game productions, so music for key scenes in games may not be used as efficiently as in other media. But games being capable of immersive interactivity would ideally be capable of this way more than any other medium existing.

Using licensed material is about the worst way to go about it as it may create the feeling of a generic common moment instead that of a memorable key moment.

12. Other producers, which aren't as radical, may still hire a composer, yet ask him/her to create something that sounds extremely close to popular music. This does not make highly unique VGM, yet it can still be very enjoyable and is a creative process. Do you see a problem in this?

Targeting a specific style or genre should not be an issue as long as the musician is capable of executing it convincingly. The usual problem is one of a disconnect between visual and aural side. Ideally during the development of a game not only the visuals affect the aural side but also vice versa. Music as an afterthought, just like licensed material, is a missed opportunity.

13. A popular trend these days (notably in the West) is to make games that are very cinematic in nature, mimicking Hollywood down to the use of (usually) orchestral cinematic music. How do you feel about this? Since these two media are converging when it comes to telling a story on screen, should games (and their music) be any different from films? If so, how?

One has to realise that music in movies only gained critical respect once it kept regularly delivering new works for classical instruments/ensembles while infusing medium specific adaptions, allowing for a continuity of "classical" musicology. Music for the medium "game" can get there that way as well. But this won't work by just copying the movie music blueprint but has to incorporate game medium specific adaptions as well.

14. Certain producers and composers believe that the perfect music should not be noticeable unless it's not there. Another way to formulate this would be to say that the music shouldn't be in the forefront to avoid distracting the player. In practice, this often results in the use of an adaptative music system, playing an ambient (see "usually unmelodic") track when nothing special is going on and then loading a more dynamic cue when action kicks in. When listened to on a stand alone basis, these soundtracks often make an inconsistent experience (unless for huge ambient fans). What do you think about this?

Ambient music has its use (movies are also full of it, and they are mostly glossed over there as well). Adaptive music systems are an unbeatable strength of the game medium if used right, so it shouldn't be dismissed outright. My belief is that music is instrumental to directly and efficiently provoking a specific mood, more so than any visual or text ever can, so I consider actually unnoticable music to be a missed opportunity.

15. VGM is inevitably linked to the games it comes from. In fact, it's created to suit them in the first place! Is there any soundtrack which you regard very lowly from a listener point of view, but that you found worked well in-game? If possible, how could it have been more enjoyable to listen to while still working as well in-game?

I nowadays mostly play games for the music, not vice versa. The cases where I dislike the music the disliking applies in-game as well, which can be due to overuse, repetitiveness of composition and/or being too short while looping.

16. Do you think there is too much music sounding the same? If so, could this be because there are too many similar games? If the games weren't to change, how could the music become different without sounding out of place?

Offering a unique feature can be a competitive feature. This also applies to game genres and the music style and genres used within them. Lack of variety in music will have the same effect as lack of variety in games etc.

17. Do you notice any difference between VGM created in Japan, America and Europe? If so, what does one do better or worse than the others, and vice versa?

My impression is that Japanese game developers often tend to include way more separate pieces in games of comparative lengths. Also composers may be more regularly involved at an earlier point of the game development, potentially allowing for more interaction between visual and aural sides. Both cases would be nice to see applied everywhere.

18. VGM is a lot more popular in Japan than it is in the West, with album releases being a good indicator. How could things get better in the West on that matter?

Force game developers to start with the music and develop the games around it instead the other way around.

19. If you had to sum up in three words what you expect from VGM, which would you choose?

Intelligent, complex music.

I was speaking idiomatically.
Crash "Long-Winded Wrong Answer" Landon
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Old Apr 3, 2008, 09:31 PM #6 of 14
1. If you had to describe what VGM is to someone ignorant on the subject, what would you say?
VGM is professional music that's been composed for inclusion in video games, and is not generally intended for mainstream radio or television listening. I'd also be sure to note that it often explores much wider styles and sounds than one may be used to hearing.

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2. Why do you listen to game music on a stand-alone basis? What elements do you like or dislike from it?
I like the variety. It's one of the few remaining mediums that not only allows but encourages true creativity. Unlike commercial music which emphasizes conformity, VGM composers are free to explore different musical territory for no better reason than it's possible.

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3. Do you listen to music from games you haven't played?
Sure.

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4. What percentage does VGM represent on your playlist vs. non-game music? If applicable, what kind of music do you listen to outside of VGM? If you don't listen to mainstream music (i.e. not VGM, film, or anime soundtracks), why is that so?
I'd estimate that it's a good 25%. I also listen to classic rock, folk, indie, world, 80s, and a smattering of stuff in-between.

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5. How do you feel about music that was not published as an official album? How much of a problem is it to you if you want to listen to it? Also, do you actually buy official albums or strictly download them illegally (or a mix of both)? Do you think these albums are adequately priced?
I tend to prefer "official" music (tracks from official albums or directly ripped from games), for reasons I don't entirely understand. I surmise that a lot of it possesses a more "polished" feel. But it's never prevented me from looking over doujin sites to see if there are any interesting remixes of tracks I know and love.

I've never purchased a VGM album except for the FFX OST, which I got on clearance at an import shop in California that was closing its doors.

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6. Which genres/styles do you mainly listen to? Which do you avoid?
I'm unsure what this means, so I'll answer as best I know. I prefer the up-tempo stuff, pieces that feel energetic or triumphant. Also, tracks with complex, layered effects appeal to me.
I'm not so keen on military-themed music, Asian vocals, or symphonic pieces recorded so as to sound as if played in a performance hall.

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7. If one of these genres also exists in non-game music, do you also listen to it from that category? If not, why?
I guess some trance and techno music applies. I'm not a hardcore fanatic but I like some of the more melodic electronic music out there.

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8. Video gaming had a reputation for a long time of being a childish or geeky hobby, and a part of it persists today. Inevitably, to a certain extent, the music also fell under this denigrative categorization (especially retro chiptunes). Do you think VGM is as valid as any other music from a listener's point of view? Additionally, are you fully comfortable about mentioning you listen to VGM when you discuss with someone who isn't into gaming?
VGM is a more recent phenomenon. Even other modern genres have their roots as far back as the 60s, when mellotrons and moog synthesizers were the rage. People have had time to accept these things into everyday life. Video games have only recently hit their stride as far as media credibility (and controversy) goes. The relative infancy of the modern industry no doubt causes some people surprise when they learn that the musics themselves are a multi-million dollar sub-industry. This perspective will shift in coming years, of course. Those in power now grew up during a time when "Rock'em Sock'em Robots" were modern technology. In another 20 years, the 8-Bit NES crowd will be in control of culture, and there will be a much more lenient attitude toward VGM.

I freely admit that I listen to VGM. My coworkers know it. I've let them listen to my ipod as demonstration that what I'm hearing is indeed of high quality, and perhaps surpasses the music in their own CD players.

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9. How would you compare game music from the past (aka chiptunes, up to the SNES era) and modern material?
Apples and oranges. How would you compare a coffee house jam band to the London Symphonic Orchestra? Both are capable of producing enjoyable sounds, but you have to acknowledge the technical and aesthetic limitations imposed upon each by the tools (or lack thereof) at their disposal.

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10. During its infancy, VGM was unique in part because of its electronic sound coming from limited sound chips. Today, any kind of instruments can be used and thus this uniqueness doesn't always persist. Do you believe VGM should sound different from other music categories? If so, how could this be achieved nowadays?
Not really, no. The greatest, and most appealing, feature of VGM is that it's not limited to one particular style. It's any style the composer prefers. Often, it's a fusion - rock and jazz; synth and strings; pop and classical, etc. If it can be envisioned, it can be done. R&B is forever limited by its style, and is therefore always going to be primarily drums and bass. VGM is capable of transcending genre specifications. Why should it even try to be defined by any particular sound, anyhow?

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11. Most gamers don't particularly care about game music (or at least, to the extent we do). Thus, it's most probably not part of their playlists. Some producers believe that players would prefer to hear their favorite mainstream songs while playing rather than original music, hence the use of licensed material. What is your opinion about this?
I wouldn't say they don't care. They just don't feel a need to make it a seperate experience. Some people don't live their life with a strong focus upon music, and that's fine. VGM is just as much for them as it is for serious listeners, as the music is primarily intended to be an in-game experience. VGM enthusiasts are just a corollary phenomenon.
For some games, licensed music is fine, as it lends a tailored quality to the sound. I'd be upset if it became the industry standard, or if developers began to head-hunt unknown bands and license one or two tracks from each rather than hire on experienced composers. However, this doesn't seem to be the trend, as Japan's artistic vision is much different than America's and they still strongly value originality.

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12. Other producers, which aren't as radical, may still hire a composer, yet ask him/her to create something that sounds extremely close to popular music. This does not make highly unique VGM, yet it can still be very enjoyable and is a creative process. Do you see a problem in this?
Not always. It depends upon who is hired and how much potential we know that individual to otherwise possess. If you hired Yack and told him to compose a very cinematic soundtrack, then yes, I'd feel his talents were being wasted. However, if a producer chose carefully, and selected, say, Tommy Tallarico for the same project, I'd consider it an apt choice.

New direction is always nice but it's not necessary in every single game. "Eternal Arcadia" was a very traditional RPG OST in most regards, but that did not prevent it from exuding total quality. Small innovations within established conventions work just as well.

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13. A popular trend these days (notably in the West) is to make games that are very cinematic in nature, mimicking Hollywood down to the use of (usually) orchestral cinematic music. How do you feel about this? Since these two media are converging when it comes to telling a story on screen, should games (and their music) be any different from films? If so, how?
I don't like it, as it encourages the producers to borrow directly from the film's score. I'm not a big fan of cinematic music because much of it is so identical and overwrought. It also seems to minimalize the musical contributions a composer would make, often forcing them to arrange someone else's work, or cutting the VGM composer out of the process completely. It saves a few bucks in production but the loss of original content is often apparent.

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14. Certain producers and composers believe that the perfect music should not be noticeable unless it's not there. Another way to formulate this would be to say that the music shouldn't be in the forefront to avoid distracting the player. In practice, this often results in the use of an adaptative music system, playing an ambient (see "usually unmelodic") track when nothing special is going on and then loading a more dynamic cue when action kicks in. When listened to on a stand alone basis, these soundtracks often make an inconsistent experience (unless for huge ambient fans). What do you think about this?
Depends upon the game. For some games, you definitely want ambience. "Metroid Prime" would be kind of awkward with thumping eurodance music, wouldn't it? On the other hand, ambience would seem quite dull in a racer. That's when you want something original and cool to groove to. At least I do.

Frankly, this "perfect music" theory sounds like a cop-out used by composers who know their work isn't very original and want a convenient excuse for their lack of acclaim.

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15. VGM is inevitably linked to the games it comes from. In fact, it's created to suit them in the first place! Is there any soundtrack which you regard very lowly from a listener point of view, but that you found worked well in-game? If possible, how could it have been more enjoyable to listen to while still working as well in-game?
I'm gonna go with Culdcept here. To listen to it alone, it's pretty bland. Kenji Ito doesn't take many adventurous liberties, that's for sure. However, the game was quite fun and had many moments of intense concentration. Those are times when I'm not thinking about the music, so the low-key accompaniment was very appreciated. It was definitely better than awkward silence, or worse, a highly distracting melody. It all worked as fully intended; it's just not going to earn points for novelty.

The only way to have improved the Culdcept OST would've been to insert more interesting tracks in places that didn't require such concentration. You could have something cool in the "pause" mode, or on the "profile selection" screen. There were opportunities missed, definitely.

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16. Do you think there is too much music sounding the same? If so, could this be because there are too many similar games? If the games weren't to change, how could the music become different without sounding out of place?
Yeah, shmups. This could be due to the fact that only a few producers bother with shmups still, and they're content to stick with the same composers each time. Personally, I think the shmup genre could explode again if it was backed up with stellar audio but that doesn't seem to be the majority opinion.

The other area of non-originality seems to be RPGs now. I remember when RPGs were the go-to for great music but it seems they've hit a plateau and are no longer seeking progressively better music. It's all fading into the background lately. Even when top names are attached, it feels like they've been ordered to tone down the originality in favor of a more atmospheric quality. Seeing as I rarely have the time for RPGs anymore, I can't say I appreciate this trend at all.

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17. Do you notice any difference between VGM created in Japan, America and Europe? If so, what does one do better or worse than the others, and vice versa?
Other than the names attached to said pieces, and what I know of the respective composers' oeuvres, not particularly. I suppose that I'm not such an encyclopedia of VGM knowledge that I can instantly make such distinctions.

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18. VGM is a lot more popular in Japan than it is in the West, with album releases being a good indicator. How could things get better in the West on that matter?
For starters, VGM could be acknowledged as a legitimate musical genre. Here in America, we've got Billboard charts for just about every imaginable genre. Gospel, Bluegrass, World Music, Dance, Modern Classical, Folk - you name it, there's a Billboard chart somewhere. But not for VGM, probably because the VGM fanbase is considered a "secondary" audience.

Some sort of chart and ranking system would make VGM feel like a valid musical genre. The only issue would be that this would be a ranking based upon source and not musical style. That may not sit well with some folk.

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19. If you had to sum up in three words what you expect from VGM, which would you choose?
Finesse. Innovation. Unpredictability.


That took me the better part of 90 minutes.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?
BlindMonk
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Old Apr 4, 2008, 02:09 AM Local time: Apr 4, 2008, 02:09 AM #7 of 14
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1. If you had to describe what VGM is to someone ignorant on the subject, what would you say?
Music which appears in or is composed for a video game, be it bloops and bleeps or ornate orchestral movements performed by the LSO. I'd likely bring up the film comparison, that even though this stuff was written for entertainment media it's still music through and through and can be listened to on a standalone basis (the soundtrack concept comes across pretty easy).


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2. Why do you listen to game music on a stand-alone basis? What elements do you like or dislike from it?
Ha, I was just mentioning something to Shively on a similiar note. I have a warm appreciation for music in practically any form it wants to present itself. Only later in life did I think about it and realize that openness to many musical styles stemmed from a life of gaming and proximity to the sheer variety found in game music. That eclectic mix exists even more so with games of today and is always providing something fresh and exciting to listen to. Often within a single game title I'm treated to a whirlwind tour of musical adventure, be it dramatic accompaniment, credit ballads, simple background tunes, action fare, or any number of genres throughout.


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3. Do you listen to music from games you haven't played?
Yes. Come to think of it, sometimes listening to the music makes me want to track down that game and give it a go.


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4. What percentage does VGM represent on your playlist vs. non-game music? If applicable, what kind of music do you listen to outside of VGM? If you don't listen to mainstream music (i.e. not VGM, film, or anime soundtracks), why is that so?
I don't actually make use of playlists but VGM would represent one of the larger percentages if I were to add it all together. Outside of VGM my life's "playlist" has been chiefly classical and all the stuff from 1950-1980, followed up by film scores, jazz, world or ethnic, new age (do we even call it that anymore?), and finally the electronic world (downtempo, trance, house, chill-out, etc.etc.) I do have a lot of the Western mainstream fare, though I don't listen to it all that much. It's chiefly to keep up with what's going on out there, though I have to admit the 80's and 90's tunes can be pretty damn catchy at times.

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5. How do you feel about music that was not published as an official album? How much of a problem is it to you if you want to listen to it? Also, do you actually buy official albums or strictly download them illegally (or a mix of both)? Do you think these albums are adequately priced?
Haha, I think all albums are overpriced. I pretty much buy everything used and cd's only when they're in the $3-4 range or below. So my physical VGM albums are a very small party indeed. Don't care a whiff whether it's published officially or not, as I'm just as much at home listening to game music from some Options sound test if that's the way the only way to hear it.

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6. Which genres/styles do you mainly listen to? Which do you avoid?
Almost anything. The only ones I avoid are particularly redundant beat tracks (an example I can think of off hand would be Smuggler's Run 2).


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7. If one of these genres also exists in non-game music, do you also listen to it from that category? If not, why?
Nope. Even within the electronic sub-genres you can find some really robust, melodic stuff that doesn't resort to just endless thumping about.


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8. Video gaming had a reputation for a long time of being a childish or geeky hobby, and a part of it persists today. Inevitably, to a certain extent, the music also fell under this denigrative categorization (especially retro chiptunes). Do you think VGM is as valid as any other music from a listener's point of view? Additionally, are you fully comfortable about mentioning you listen to VGM when you discuss with someone who isn't into gaming?
Yes and yes. Even better when I have some particularly overpowering orchestral work I can let them listen to. It hardly ever comes up in conversation, though. I don't proactively go about trying to convert people or anything as I think it's mainly just an element of culture that will ingrain itself more and more as the generations pass.

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9. How would you compare game music from the past (aka chiptunes, up to the SNES era) and modern material?
I regard the music of that period through a thick filter nostalgia so, in my instance, it's pretty much impossible not to enjoy it. Trying hard to be objective, I think most could listen to them now and appreciate how much those musicians did with so very little but ultimately the layered, evocative music of today -- a lot of times with real instruments involved -- wins out in the end.

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10. During its infancy, VGM was unique in part because of its electronic sound coming from limited sound chips. Today, any kind of instruments can be used and thus this uniqueness doesn't always persist. Do you believe VGM should sound different from other music categories? If so, how could this be achieved nowadays?
VGM should match the intent of its composer or production team, or simply fit the framework of its environment (story, mood, themes, accompaniment, etc.). Just like any other music.


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11. Most gamers don't particularly care about game music (or at least, to the extent we do). Thus, it's most probably not part of their playlists. Some producers believe that players would prefer to hear their favorite mainstream songs while playing rather than original music, hence the use of licensed material. What is your opinion about this?
If the developer is truly concerned in that way about what players want to listen to they ought to allow the player full control in setting up a playlist, using whatever songs the player has available to provide. Otherwise I'd prefer original content composed explicitly for that title (and there are certainly exceptions to this, such as in a case like Homeworld's choral inclusion of Barber's famous Adagio). On a similiar note, movie soundtracks do me no good. I can get top 40 hits from any radio station, but I'm much more intrigued and energized by the dramatic score which grounds so much of what happens storywise.


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12. Other producers, which aren't as radical, may still hire a composer, yet ask him/her to create something that sounds extremely close to popular music. This does not make highly unique VGM, yet it can still be very enjoyable and is a creative process. Do you see a problem in this?
Not really since non-VGM has to contend with the business side of things too. There will always be that give-and-take when dealing with commercially driven media.


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13. A popular trend these days (notably in the West) is to make games that are very cinematic in nature, mimicking Hollywood down to the use of (usually) orchestral cinematic music. How do you feel about this? Since these two media are converging when it comes to telling a story on screen, should games (and their music) be any different from films? If so, how?
As mentioned earlier, the music should fit with the vision of the project, whether the project is displayed in theaters nationwide or pumped out in Live's latest arcade hit.


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14. Certain producers and composers believe that the perfect music should not be noticeable unless it's not there. Another way to formulate this would be to say that the music shouldn't be in the forefront to avoid distracting the player. In practice, this often results in the use of an adaptative music system, playing an ambient (see "usually unmelodic") track when nothing special is going on and then loading a more dynamic cue when action kicks in. When listened to on a stand alone basis, these soundtracks often make an inconsistent experience (unless for huge ambient fans). What do you think about this?
As far as standalone listening is concerned, the only thought I have on this is that I usually only listen to those "featureless" tracks if I've played and enjoyed its source game beforehand.


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15. VGM is inevitably linked to the games it comes from. In fact, it's created to suit them in the first place! Is there any soundtrack which you regard very lowly from a listener point of view, but that you found worked well in-game? If possible, how could it have been more enjoyable to listen to while still working as well in-game?
The earlier mentioned Smuggler's Run 2. It's pretty hard to notice any repetitiveness when you're careening down mountainsides in some overpowered buggy while being chased by ten law enforcement vehicles. Outside the game any kind of variety would help. It's possible to swing your electronic beat box this way and that way and garner listener attention alongside player excitation.


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16. Do you think there is too much music sounding the same? If so, could this be because there are too many similar games? If the games weren't to change, how could the music become different without sounding out of place?
Eh.... One could also say Baroque music is all the same, or bluegrass or rap is all the same. Sure there are similiar styles or genre trademarks to be found, but the power and scope of the musician is limitless and, from what I've heard so far, offers no end of variety


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17. Do you notice any difference between VGM created in Japan, America and Europe? If so, what does one do better or worse than the others, and vice versa?
Japan has the best synth work and perhaps the most experimental edge to their music. They also feel free to jump between various musical styles in a single game, where Western tracks seem to stick with a specific, perhaps more cohesive mood or musical framework throughout.


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18. VGM is a lot more popular in Japan than it is in the West, with album releases being a good indicator. How could things get better in the West on that matter?
Time.


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19. If you had to sum up in three words what you expect from VGM, which would you choose?
Variety | Original | Delight

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Old Apr 4, 2008, 01:11 PM Local time: Apr 4, 2008, 08:11 PM #8 of 14
I give it a try.

1. If you had to describe what VGM is to someone ignorant on the subject, what would you say?
VGM is music composed for video and computer games and serves a lot of different styles.

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2. Why do you listen to game music on a stand-alone basis? What elements do you like or dislike from it?
I guess I like it because it's so thematic. Most tracks describe something or support a specific topic - without any vocals (except of chorus and such)! And you can find styles which hard to find anywhere else.

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3. Do you listen to music from games you haven't played?
As I'm not that kind of gamer who plays everything he can get, yes.

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4. What percentage does VGM represent on your playlist vs. non-game music? If applicable, what kind of music do you listen to outside of VGM? If you don't listen to mainstream music (i.e. not VGM, film, or anime soundtracks), why is that so?
I don't have a playlist in which VGM and non-VGM is mixed but I would guess from all the time I listen to music 70% is VGM.
Beside VGM I'm listening to electronic stuff, Eurobeat, Neoclassical, New Age/World music.

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5. How do you feel about music that was not published as an official album? How much of a problem is it to you if you want to listen to it? Also, do you actually buy official albums or strictly download them illegally (or a mix of both)? Do you think these albums are adequately priced?
I buy albums if I have the money and if I really like the soundtrack. Currently most of my collection were downloaded but I hope I can change the ratio after earning money regularly.
No problem about Gamerips. To say the truth I don't know any ripper at GFF from who I could say the stuff he brings up is totally shit.
Prices, hah, sometimes I think publishers have a bad taste of humour but i. e. Konami Europe goes the perfect way. Most of their soundtracks at Konamistyle shop cost around ten euros and that's a more than acceptable price in my opinion.

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6. Which genres/styles do you mainly listen to? Which do you avoid?
First of all I don't avoid any style. At least no one is coming in my mind now. But I love down-tempo themes with a touch of "mystic". "Forest of Cutting Shadows" from Chrono Cross soundtrack is one of such a style.

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7. If one of these genres also exists in non-game music, do you also listen to it from that category? If not, why?
Yes, I think.

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8. Video gaming had a reputation for a long time of being a childish or geeky hobby, and a part of it persists today. Inevitably, to a certain extent, the music also fell under this denigrative categorization (especially retro chiptunes). Do you think VGM is as valid as any other music from a listener's point of view? Additionally, are you fully comfortable about mentioning you listen to VGM when you discuss with someone who isn't into gaming?
Let me say that way: If others can say without danger that they are listening to rap then I can talk about that I'm listening to VGM. Sure, chiptunes isn't everybody's taste but what's chiptunes today?

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9. How would you compare game music from the past (aka chiptunes, up to the SNES era) and modern material?
There were highlights in the past and there are highlights today. Okay, for me, I have more highlights in the SNES era than in modern consoles. In that case everybody's different I guess.

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10. During its infancy, VGM was unique in part because of its electronic sound coming from limited sound chips. Today, any kind of instruments can be used and thus this uniqueness doesn't always persist. Do you believe VGM should sound different from other music categories? If so, how could this be achieved nowadays?
Sure it shouldn't sound like any other genre. Of course, VGM has its styles but the (known) listener should sound out whether something is VGM stuff or not. How, I can't tell because I'm a looser in analyzing music.

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11. Most gamers don't particularly care about game music (or at least, to the extent we do). Thus, it's most probably not part of their playlists. Some producers believe that players would prefer to hear their favorite mainstream songs while playing rather than original music, hence the use of licensed material. What is your opinion about this?
Gnah, don't like it. It may be okay in a racer or wrestling game but it shouldn't be any kind of standard.

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12. Other producers, which aren't as radical, may still hire a composer, yet ask him/her to create something that sounds extremely close to popular music. This does not make highly unique VGM, yet it can still be very enjoyable and is a creative process. Do you see a problem in this?
That depends upon who is making what music and for what a game. I could see a Jean-Michel Jarre as co-composer for a Metroid title but not Eminem for any fantasy RPG.

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13. A popular trend these days (notably in the West) is to make games that are very cinematic in nature, mimicking Hollywood down to the use of (usually) orchestral cinematic music. How do you feel about this? Since these two media are converging when it comes to telling a story on screen, should games (and their music) be any different from films? If so, how?
Film and game are similar at most and that's how the music should be at most: similar. In my opinion, it's the biggest issue that western VGM is too much background stuff - like much (Hollywood) movie soundtracks.

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14. Certain producers and composers believe that the perfect music should not be noticeable unless it's not there. Another way to formulate this would be to say that the music shouldn't be in the forefront to avoid distracting the player. In practice, this often results in the use of an adaptative music system, playing an ambient (see "usually unmelodic") track when nothing special is going on and then loading a more dynamic cue when action kicks in. When listened to on a stand alone basis, these soundtracks often make an inconsistent experience (unless for huge ambient fans). What do you think about this?
Dynamic music can be great but there's the background topic again. Of course, sometimes simple ambient fits best but it shouldn't be huge part of complete soundtrack.

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15. VGM is inevitably linked to the games it comes from. In fact, it's created to suit them in the first place! Is there any soundtrack which you regard very lowly from a listener point of view, but that you found worked well in-game? If possible, how could it have been more enjoyable to listen to while still working as well in-game?
There's no title coming in my mind... Otherwise I'll edit this answer later.

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16. Do you think there is too much music sounding the same? If so, could this be because there are too many similar games? If the games weren't to change, how could the music become different without sounding out of place?
Similar in their composition? Hm, no.

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17. Do you notice any difference between VGM created in Japan, America and Europe? If so, what does one do better or worse than the others, and vice versa?
As I mentioned above, in most cases western VGM is more background-oriented. More composers should do it like Graeme Norgate has done with TimeSplitters series and let the players hear the fucking music!

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18. VGM is a lot more popular in Japan than it is in the West, with album releases being a good indicator. How could things get better in the West on that matter?
If their are afraid of CD releases then they should use the damn internet and if so, accessible for customers worldwide. I have nothing from a shop for which I need a Japanese address when I live in Germany, for instance. Oh, and please, no DRM (DirectSong anyone?).

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19. If you had to sum up in three words what you expect from VGM, which would you choose?
Simply just enjoyable.

How ya doing, buddy?

Best Song Contest 2014 Winner
Musashi: Samurai Legend - Aeolic Guardian
composed by Masashi Hamauzu

Me @ last.fm | Ultimate Video Game Composers List | VGM Lounge (German)
Josiah
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Old Apr 4, 2008, 02:02 PM #9 of 14
I don't have a whole lot of time, so I think I'll try a single question rather than all at once, and then perhaps later I can edit the post to include more (or perhaps even the rest) of the answers.

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8. Video gaming had a reputation for a long time of being a childish or geeky hobby, and a part of it persists today. Inevitably, to a certain extent, the music also fell under this denigrative categorization (especially retro chiptunes). Do you think VGM is as valid as any other music from a listener's point of view? Additionally, are you fully comfortable about mentioning you listen to VGM when you discuss with someone who isn't into gaming?
I'm fully of the opinion it's become a more valid form of music in recent years. I wish I could remember who originally said it, but I often tell people that it's "not just bleeps and bloops anymore". My parents hate video games, so putting on my music around them is a challenge. For this, I tailored a playlist of VGM that sounds more like classical/movie music. I actually get excited when they ask "What's this playing?" because that usually means they like it. I'm not always comfortable when mentioning VGM to people not so much into the genre. However, having made other playlists for groups (parents, friends, etc.) helps sometimes to get over this hurdle. (OCRemix works wonders around friends for me.) That, in my opinion, is one of the great things about VGM, is that there's something you can find for just about anyone, whatever their music taste might be.

Going along your logic from earlier, I think it's fairly true to say that VGM becomes more known as the games from which they stem become more known, too. A good example of this, I think, would be the volume 1 album of the Halo 2 soundtrack. While it wasn't all that appealing to me as a VGM listener with there being not so much score and more stuff from pop artists, I do think it did kinda put VGM's foot in the door for other people that don't listen to it by mixing it with music by artists people probably knew. And I applaud the efforts of people like those of Video Games Live that strive to make VGM more known.

Jam it back in, in the dark.


Djinova
Why didn't he just...


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Old Apr 4, 2008, 04:43 PM #10 of 14
Interesting questions. I am wondering myself how I am going to spontaneously respond to them.
1. If you had to describe what VGM is to someone ignorant on the subject, what would you say?
--- It’s music from games, mostly without vocals. Some tracks can be interesting and unique.

2. Why do you listen to game music on a stand-alone basis? What elements do you like or dislike from it?
--- Because I chose so, I think it’s a niche hobby and I like it. What I like about game music is that it can be very descriptive and abstract, containing a story and a picture. Mainstream music mostly does not try this.

3. Do you listen to music from games you haven't played?
--- Sure why not, gaming helps appreciating the music, but I don’t have that much time anymore. You still can read the message from the music sometimes without playing the game.

4. What percentage does VGM represent on your playlist vs. non-game music? If applicable, what kind of music do you listen to outside of VGM? If you don't listen to mainstream music (i.e. not VGM, film, or anime soundtracks), why is that so?
--- There’s little to no non-game music on my playlist. I do have a lot of arrangements from game music however, so it’s not really VGM but a related compromise.

5. How do you feel about music that was not published as an official album? How much of a problem is it to you if you want to listen to it? Also, do you actually buy official albums or strictly download them illegally (or a mix of both)? Do you think these albums are adequately priced?
--- Well it depends on the music itself, if it’s not very special then it won’t hurt so much, but in any case it’s a loss. If I want to listen to it, then it would be a problem of course. But there’s not much out there as well.

6. Which genres/styles do you mainly listen to? Which do you avoid?
--- I listen to everything and believe every genre can have their exemplary representatives. It’s a bit like treasure hunting, which is where the fun is.

7. If one of these genres also exists in non-game music, do you also listen to it from that category? If not, why?
--- Hard to say. I do think I kind of prefer trancy electronic music, which is abundant in mainstream music, but I still would not seek them out because maybe it would be too easy to find something I like from such a vast pool. I do not dislike mainstream music.

8. Video gaming had a reputation for a long time of being a childish or geeky hobby, and a part of it persists today. Inevitably, to a certain extent, the music also fell under this denigrative categorization (especially retro chiptunes). Do you think VGM is as valid as any other music from a listener's point of view? Additionally, are you fully comfortable about mentioning you listen to VGM when you discuss with someone who isn't into gaming?
--- It should be valid, but listening to VGM is in my opinion a process of learning as well. Trained people like VGM fans automatically listen closer to the music, they have become audile. Normal people on the other hand do not have the concept in their mind, that VGM might be something they could listen to outside of the game. Only when it’s really good, they might be interested, and from there the idea slowly grows there might be other VGM like that. I’d rather not talk to normal people about VGM, they simply do not have the mind for it. Not that I blame them, they’re just interested in other things.

9. How would you compare game music from the past (aka chiptunes, up to the SNES era) and modern material?
--- In the old stuff the melody can be better expressed due to clear dry signals. With modern stuff you can create more ambience, but ambience that is memorable is hard to do. Either way I think both have their strong points and I wouldn’t say I like one or the other more.

10. During its infancy, VGM was unique in part because of its electronic sound coming from limited sound chips. Today, any kind of instruments can be used and thus this uniqueness doesn't always persist. Do you believe VGM should sound different from other music categories? If so, how could this be achieved nowadays?
--- Maybe I do not know of examples, where VGM clearly sounds like mainstream, but I think it’s something that happends automatically. It will always sound different, they don’t have to go back to blip-blop to make it evident. Of course I think it should sound different than mainstream.

11. Most gamers don't particularly care about game music (or at least, to the extent we do). Thus, it's most probably not part of their playlists. Some producers believe that players would prefer to hear their favorite mainstream songs while playing rather than original music, hence the use of licensed material. What is your opinion about this?
--- It would be a sad turn, but they need to make money and their game should appeal to many gamers as possible. So it’s understandable I guess, I just have to look for companies that don’t do it. There should be still enough as of now.

12. Other producers, which aren't as radical, may still hire a composer, yet ask him/her to create something that sounds extremely close to popular music. This does not make highly unique VGM, yet it can still be very enjoyable and is a creative process. Do you see a problem in this?
--- I’d prefer they don’t do this. At least it’s enjoyable? So it might please other people, I shouldn’t be too egocentric.

13. A popular trend these days (notably in the West) is to make games that are very cinematic in nature, mimicking Hollywood down to the use of (usually) orchestral cinematic music. How do you feel about this? Since these two media are converging when it comes to telling a story on screen, should games (and their music) be any different from films? If so, how?
--- I’ve always regard film music as too ambient. I would need better or more perceptive ears. But I don’t think it’s that bad. They creating music that’s not too catchy, so people can concentrate on the game. Hmm, maybe it’s even easier to compose. A no from me.

14. Certain producers and composers believe that the perfect music should not be noticeable unless it's not there. Another way to formulate this would be to say that the music shouldn't be in the forefront to avoid distracting the player. In practice, this often results in the use of an adaptative music system, playing an ambient (see "usually unmelodic") track when nothing special is going on and then loading a more dynamic cue when action kicks in. When listened to on a stand alone basis, these soundtracks often make an inconsistent experience (unless for huge ambient fans). What do you think about this?
--- Please think of the ambient fans. They’re to many VGM fans as VGM fans are to mainstream fans. Ambience is absolutely unpredictable in my opinion, it’s all about resonating waves. Some are extremely terrific, others are rather sleep-inducing (because you concentrate too hard and still hear nothing).

15. VGM is inevitably linked to the games it comes from. In fact, it's created to suit them in the first place! Is there any soundtrack which you regard very lowly from a listener point of view, but that you found worked well in-game? If possible, how could it have been more enjoyable to listen to while still working as well in-game?
--- I’ve found all music to be more interesting if something visual or emotional is attached to it. I believe that liking music is more complex and not only related to this one sense.

16. Do you think there is too much music sounding the same? If so, could this be because there are too many similar games? If the games weren't to change, how could the music become different without sounding out of place?
--- Sounding the same is a question of experience. Two pieces of music cannot be technically the same if they’re not the same track (lol?). Just an easy comparison, european people say all asian looks alike, true or not? But in general I think, if more and more game music is released the chance is simply higher that you’ll encounter something familiar. Also, normal gamers don’t care that certain games have a certain style of music.

17. Do you notice any difference between VGM created in Japan, America and Europe? If so, what does one do better or worse than the others, and vice versa?
--- I personally prefer Japanese VGM. They tend to create more complex and better melodies.. I know and like a few American composer and their works and sometimes there’s really no difference, so this could be simply because there’s more Japanese VGM, so there’s more to choose from. Europe and VGM, do you mean Hamauzu (lol)?

18. VGM is a lot more popular in Japan than it is in the West, with album releases being a good indicator. How could things get better in the West on that matter?
--- People have to be more aware of VGM, then it would get better, but I’m not sure how to make them more aware. VGM might remain a niche forever.

19. If you had to sum up in three words what you expect from VGM, which would you choose?
--- Unique, Light, Inspiration

There's nowhere I can't reach.
ZiggyGo
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Old Apr 4, 2008, 10:29 PM #11 of 14
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1. If you had to describe what VGM is to someone ignorant on the subject, what would you say?
I would tell them it is music composed for the purposing of portraying all the inherent elements within a video game.

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2. Why do you listen to game music on a stand-alone basis? What elements do you like or dislike from it?
I listen to VGM on a standalone basis because I really enjoy it. Elements I dislike include some VGM not working quite so well out of context, and on the flip side, I like it when it works well out of context. Aside from that, I enjoy the mixture of instrumental (mainly) and vocal performances. Sound quality, to me, is not that big of an issue.

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3. Do you listen to music from games you haven't played?
Most of the music I listen to comes from games I haven't played. Of course, listening to some might inspire me to pick up a game, should it be released in the US.

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4. What percentage does VGM represent on your playlist vs. non-game music? If applicable, what kind of music do you listen to outside of VGM? If you don't listen to mainstream music (i.e. not VGM, film, or anime soundtracks), why is that so?
Let's see. VGM probably represents 70-75% of my total listening. I also listen to some J-rock, a lot of instrumental music by various artists, and a few foreign bands, such as Rammstein. For the most part, I don't listen to mainstream music because it is all starting to blend together and most of it doesn't intrigue me in the slightest. There are a few exceptions though.

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5. How do you feel about music that was not published as an official album? How much of a problem is it to you if you want to listen to it? Also, do you actually buy official albums or strictly download them illegally (or a mix of both)? Do you think these albums are adequately priced?
I have no problem listening to a gamerip. It provides a nice insight into something that may never get a soundtrack release. As for official albums, I buy some, but for the most part, I acquire them by other means. I'm not made of money, but if there is an album I like, I'll eventually pick it up. On the other hand, I'll usually preorder an album by a favorite composer without having heard it. So far, it's payed off.

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6. Which genres/styles do you mainly listen to? Which do you avoid?
I listen to every style of VGM under the sun. I'll give anything a chance for at least one listen.

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7. If one of these genres also exists in non-game music, do you also listen to it from that category? If not, why?
As for non-VGM, I tend to avoid most of it. I mainly gravitate towards rock, Asian inspired compositions, and fusion jazz.

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8. Video gaming had a reputation for a long time of being a childish or geeky hobby, and a part of it persists today. Inevitably, to a certain extent, the music also fell under this denigrative categorization (especially retro chiptunes). Do you think VGM is as valid as any other music from a listener's point of view? Additionally, are you fully comfortable about mentioning you listen to VGM when you discuss with someone who isn't into gaming?
VGM is definitely a valid style of music. As for comfortability, I'm not the most comfortable when talking with people who aren't into gaming, however, there are a few people I've talked to about it and they seem to continue on with their life. They don't dismiss it, but at the same time, they don't really support it. Hard to describe.

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9. How would you compare game music from the past (aka chiptunes, up to the SNES era) and modern material?
Oh, that's definitely a mixed bag. Both eras of music have their ups and downs. Some of the older stuff doesn't age well, but at the same time, I'm sure looking into the past a few years from now, some of the modern stuff won't age as well either.

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10. During its infancy, VGM was unique in part because of its electronic sound coming from limited sound chips. Today, any kind of instruments can be used and thus this uniqueness doesn't always persist. Do you believe VGM should sound different from other music categories? If so, how could this be achieved nowadays?
I don't necessarily think that VGM should sound different than other musical categories. Music is the spice of life and VGM seems to have a whole spice cabinet full. It has a variety of styles and each one, usually, fits quite well.

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11. Most gamers don't particularly care about game music (or at least, to the extent we do). Thus, it's most probably not part of their playlists. Some producers believe that players would prefer to hear their favorite mainstream songs while playing rather than original music, hence the use of licensed material. What is your opinion about this?
All depends on the game really. For sports games, I can understand licensed soundtracks. I can also understand it for GTA. Driving around as in a real city, people who listen to the radio tend to listen to stuff that is licensed. As for other games, I think composed music is the best way to go.

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12. Other producers, which aren't as radical, may still hire a composer, yet ask him/her to create something that sounds extremely close to popular music. This does not make highly unique VGM, yet it can still be very enjoyable and is a creative process. Do you see a problem in this?
I don't see a problem in this. If that's what a producer wants, he should be able to get it.l

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13. A popular trend these days (notably in the West) is to make games that are very cinematic in nature, mimicking Hollywood down to the use of (usually) orchestral cinematic music. How do you feel about this? Since these two media are converging when it comes to telling a story on screen, should games (and their music) be any different from films? If so, how?
I'm not a big fan of Western VGM. There are very few pieces that I enjoy. The games in the West do tend to be more cinematically focused, but I think the music fits to a degree.

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14. Certain producers and composers believe that the perfect music should not be noticeable unless it's not there. Another way to formulate this would be to say that the music shouldn't be in the forefront to avoid distracting the player. In practice, this often results in the use of an adaptative music system, playing an ambient (see "usually unmelodic") track when nothing special is going on and then loading a more dynamic cue when action kicks in. When listened to on a stand alone basis, these soundtracks often make an inconsistent experience (unless for huge ambient fans). What do you think about this?
Yes. I think that ambient soundtracks tend to lose strength outside of context. Given I listen to most soundtracks on a standalone basis, I tend to veer away from those.

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15. VGM is inevitably linked to the games it comes from. In fact, it's created to suit them in the first place! Is there any soundtrack which you regard very lowly from a listener point of view, but that you found worked well in-game? If possible, how could it have been more enjoyable to listen to while still working as well in-game?
Hmm, not that I can think of. There are certain parts of certain sections of Chrono Trigger that work well in game, but are horrible out of context (i.e. A.D. 2300).

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16. Do you think there is too much music sounding the same? If so, could this be because there are too many similar games? If the games weren't to change, how could the music become different without sounding out of place?
While some music may sound the same, I think each soundtrack brings a bit of uniqueness to the table. How much all depends on the composer.

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17. Do you notice any difference between VGM created in Japan, America and Europe? If so, what does one do better or worse than the others, and vice versa?
Yes. I tend to enjoy Japanese VGM much more than Western VGM. It's much more catchy, melodic, and less cinematic for the most part.

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18. VGM is a lot more popular in Japan than it is in the West, with album releases being a good indicator. How could things get better in the West on that matter?
I'm not sure if it will ever get better in the West. I'd have to say more enjoyable music though.

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19. If you had to sum up in three words what you expect from VGM, which would you choose?
Descriptive, Fun, Enjoyable

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.
Elorin
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Old Apr 5, 2008, 12:13 AM Local time: Apr 5, 2008, 01:13 PM #12 of 14
Let me try my hand at the questions. I've never thought very hard about some of them in the past so now's a good a time as any.

1. If you had to describe what VGM is to someone ignorant on the subject, what would you say?
I'd say that VGM is a type of soundtrack music for games, like how film soundtracks are to movies. And that VGM has evolved tremendously over the years, thanks to advances in audio technology and how the way we play games today can differ greatly from how we played them in the past.

2. Why do you listen to game music on a stand-alone basis? What elements do you like or dislike from it?
I have two major motivations. The first being to recall a memorable game experience. I usually feel a strong sense of nostalgia when listening VGM from games I've played before, especially if they are particularly old (and I can still remember the tune :P). It's also incredibly relaxing and helps take my mind off things. My second motivation: I think VGM in general is more interesting refreshing, and diverse than most mainstream music. A single game can often have a soundtrack that boasts a myriad of styles and genres, which I can't always find in a pop music album. VGM also tends to be somewhat more creative and complex than pop music.

3. Do you listen to music from games you haven't played?
Yes, I do. Especially tracks that I perceive to be battle-type tracks (I'm quite a big fan of battle music!). I find that listening to VGM from games I haven't played often has the effect of enhancing my gameplay experience should I decide to play the game subsequently. In addition, it's quite refreshing to listen to VGM from certain game genres I would normally not touch, like racing or sports games.

4. What percentage does VGM represent on your playlist vs. non-game music? If applicable, what kind of music do you listen to outside of VGM? If you don't listen to mainstream music (i.e. not VGM, film, or anime soundtracks), why is that so?
VGM easily fills up 80-90% of my playlist(s) these days. I've become very, very selective on the types of non-VGM music I listen. Typically this would include some choral music, film and anime soundtracks (more of the latter), a bit of Mandarin pop, some New Age/World music, and a few evergreen albums every now and then. I used to listen to more Mandarin pop on the radio but after I while, I got a bit tired of the more mainstream Mandarin pop.

5. How do you feel about music that was not published as an official album? How much of a problem is it to you if you want to listen to it? Also, do you actually buy official albums or strictly download them illegally (or a mix of both)? Do you think these albums are adequately priced?
If the first question is in relation to game rips, I actually quite enjoy them. They usually represent a more complete aural experience of a game than a soundtrack with "missing tracks". And sometimes, certain incidental things like sound effects can be nice to hear in a game rip where it might have been absent in an official release. In addition, game rips always have that added layer of the ripper's passion and dedication which I can appreciate. It can be quite a task to do a proper game rip. Further more, game rips usually loop tracks when the OST doesn't!

Is prohibitively expensive to buy VGM soundtracks where I come from; if you can even find them at all. Of late, some stores have been carrying some very affordable soundtracks and I've found myself buying the ones that I like a lot. Importing is insanely expensive and/or too much of a hassle. I prefer to be able to just walk into a music store and buy a VGM soundtrack.

6. Which genres/styles do you mainly listen to? Which do you avoid?
I typically enjoy ambient/minimalist, choral, folk, New Age, electronic, lounge/mood and alternative pop music. Some styles that I have a weakness for include the whimsical, epic/grandiose, melancholic, uplifting/cheery and pastoral. I used to avoid rock but have grown to like it to some extent thanks to the BSC. :P I avoid heavy metal and bad techno, especially the type that's nothing but thumping beats that repeat forever with no development whatsoever.

I also really like VGM styled in the SNES era. Most of the VGM from that period is particularly charming to me and I can't quite say why exactly and what genre of music they belong to except that it's... 16-bit SNES VGM. :P

7. If one of these genres also exists in non-game music, do you also listen to it from that category? If not, why?
I do, but not as much as I would if it had been from a game. I guess it boils down to my motivations for listening to VGM.

8. Video gaming had a reputation for a long time of being a childish or geeky hobby, and a part of it persists today. Inevitably, to a certain extent, the music also fell under this denigrative categorization (especially retro chiptunes). Do you think VGM is as valid as any other music from a listener's point of view? Additionally, are you fully comfortable about mentioning you listen to VGM when you discuss with someone who isn't into gaming?
I think VGM is like any other type music, and the lines between mainstream music and VGM have been blurring in some cases. Most would think otherwise because it's music "from a silly game" (but most of us here would beg to differ for various reasons). Admittedly, I'm not entirely comfortable telling most people directly that I listen to VGM because over here, it's still considered silly music that gets written off. But I do see that perception improving especially with mainstream music winding its way into games and games themselves becoming more accessible to the masses (just look at the NDS and PSP!).

9. How would you compare game music from the past (aka chiptunes, up to the SNES era) and modern material?
This isn't an easy question! I honestly can't say if chiptunes or modern VGM is better. Both have their pros and cons. Chiptunes tend to have more memorable, catchy melodies with infectious beats but there are times you do wish a better quality synth was available to bring out the full flavour of the composition. For modern VGM, sometimes it can be so obsessed with instrumentation that the quality of the composition suffers. However, modern VGM has also seen more complex and interesting arrangements that chiptunes would find hard to replicate (with the exception of perhaps certain Western composers). What I find really interesting is modern chiptunes. These can be fun affairs.

10. During its infancy, VGM was unique in part because of its electronic sound coming from limited sound chips. Today, any kind of instruments can be used and thus this uniqueness doesn't always persist. Do you believe VGM should sound different from other music categories? If so, how could this be achieved nowadays?
I don't think VGM needs to sound different from other music genres from an aural standpoint. Why should it?

11. Most gamers don't particularly care about game music (or at least, to the extent we do). Thus, it's most probably not part of their playlists. Some producers believe that players would prefer to hear their favorite mainstream songs while playing rather than original music, hence the use of licensed material. What is your opinion about this?
I do believe a lot of gamers like to swap out the in-game music for mainstream music (because the game music was boring etc.) but I think this detracts from the game experience because the mainstream music might not match what is intended by the in0game music in enhancing the gamer's experience. I cannot imagine listening to an upbeat track from The Corrs whilst playing Fatal Frame, for instance. I think you lose something from the game as a result. If the licensed music is appropriate for the game context, I think it's still ok. But I do prefer more innovation and creativity in my VGM.

12. Other producers, which aren't as radical, may still hire a composer, yet ask him/her to create something that sounds extremely close to popular music. This does not make highly unique VGM, yet it can still be very enjoyable and is a creative process. Do you see a problem in this?
I think this is ok as long as the music actually fits with what the game is trying to achieve. And if it makes for a nice listen, I have no issues. One example is the Sims tracks that was nominated for Song of the Week (pop station/music or some such). It's like something from The Corrs (minus the vocals) and sounds terrific. I will have something against the music if it becomes formulaic like most pop music these days.

13. A popular trend these days (notably in the West) is to make games that are very cinematic in nature, mimicking Hollywood down to the use of (usually) orchestral cinematic music. How do you feel about this? Since these two media are converging when it comes to telling a story on screen, should games (and their music) be any different from films? If so, how?
I don't have an issue with this as long as it makes sense to the game and it enhances the gameplay experience. Of course, this might make it more difficult to appreciate the music outside of the game if the music becomes too highly customised to the in-game events as in the case of cut-scene music for games.

14. Certain producers and composers believe that the perfect music should not be noticeable unless it's not there. Another way to formulate this would be to say that the music shouldn't be in the forefront to avoid distracting the player. In practice, this often results in the use of an adaptative music system, playing an ambient (see "usually unmelodic") track when nothing special is going on and then loading a more dynamic cue when action kicks in. When listened to on a stand alone basis, these soundtracks often make an inconsistent experience (unless for huge ambient fans). What do you think about this?
Well, I'm quite a fan of ambient music, so no problems for me. :P I think such adaptive music is very interesting and might not be that inconsistent if the transtition is done well. I've also heard of adaptive music where a melodic field theme transits into a more upbeat battle music when a battle starts, becoming milder and quiter after the battle (e.g. the .hack games). I think such adaptive music makes for a more seamless game experience and can be interesting listens outside of a game if done well (to me at least).

That said, I do not agree that the best music has to always be unnoticeable. It really depends on the nature of the game and the context. VGM with distinct melodies can make for great listens, sometimes heightening the experience. And there will be times when a more ambient score will make more sense.

15. VGM is inevitably linked to the games it comes from. In fact, it's created to suit them in the first place! Is there any soundtrack which you regard very lowly from a listener point of view, but that you found worked well in-game? If possible, how could it have been more enjoyable to listen to while still working as well in-game?
I don't think much of Chrono Trigger soundtrack except for some tracks but it works nicely in-game. Somehow, the music makes more sense when you take into consideration the game world/setting, characters and overall presentation of the game.

16. Do you think there is too much music sounding the same? If so, could this be because there are too many similar games? If the games weren't to change, how could the music become different without sounding out of place?
I think this tends to be true to some extent if it's VGM from the same composer. So I would suggest to have a few composers work on a single game or alternate between a composers. I may like Jeremy Soule but l can imagine that even I would get a bit restless if every other PC game I play is composed by him.

I also find that certain game genres tend to keep sticking to particular styles (e.g. racing games) but I don't think it needs to be as long as it is still coherent in the game's context.

17. Do you notice any difference between VGM created in Japan, America and Europe? If so, what does one do better or worse than the others, and vice versa?
I think all three can be quite distinct and there are always exceptions to the generalisations I'm making. My impression is that Japanese VGM uses a lot of synth and tends to be more varied in style, while American VGM has a tendency towards the orchestral or ambient/minimalistic and can sometimes come across as being a bit less innovative (almost formulaic). To me at least, European VGM tends to be more electronic in nature (probably with an emphasis on mood/atmosphere), or have European folk influences/sensibilities. It's also less "formulaic" than American VGM, I think.

18. VGM is a lot more popular in Japan than it is in the West, with album releases being a good indicator. How could things get better in the West on that matter?
Perhaps more game music concerts? And game events that tie in with game music gigs? Have local distributors of game music? Have game music awardsn that don't just focus on Western music?

19. If you had to sum up in three words what you expect from VGM, which would you choose?
Diverse, refreshing, charm.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?
I think therefore I am... I think.

Last edited by Elorin; Apr 5, 2008 at 12:42 AM.
goldsac
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Old Apr 5, 2008, 11:53 PM #13 of 14
1. If you had to describe what VGM is to someone ignorant on the subject, what would you say?

Video game music is the music you hear when playing a game. Like film scores, it's not a genre - video games are just the medium the music is made for. It's very often worth listening to, despite being relatively unpopular. It's important to emphasize that the music is (generally) created by talented composers, as opposed to amateur musicians.

2. Why do you listen to game music on a stand-alone basis? What elements do you like or dislike from it?

I like VGM (as well as some film music) because it's representative music - i.e. it might represent the emotional context of a scene, or a character (leitmotifs). I like music like this because it's purpose is usually very clear. I enjoy it then, on the basis of how well the composer can fulfill the pupose. It's not the only way I enjoy VGM, but I can say it's a major factor.

3. Do you listen to music from games you haven't played?

Not really. Not that I'm completely opposed to the idea or anything. I picked up a few songs in the BSC last year from games I never played, but it wasn't the majority. Further, there's some songs in that contest that I may have enjoyed much more if I knew what the song was intended for. Anyhoo, if there's any VGM I've been meaning to check out, I usually do so through playing the game.


4. What percentage does VGM represent on your playlist vs. non-game music? If applicable, what kind of music do you listen to outside of VGM? If you don't listen to mainstream music (i.e. not VGM, film, or anime soundtracks), why is that so?

30% (about 600 of 2000). I'm all about variety, all sorts of stuff. In short - rock, classical, and jazz, and all the 53252332 sub-genres within that I don't worry too much about. Some of it's mainsteam, some of it isn't - as long as it's good i don't care. That said, i'm less drawn to mainstream stuff cause it tends toward conformity and/or compromise more often. Your less likely to strike gold in the mainstream, so to speak (but you still occasionally do).

5. How do you feel about music that was not published as an official album? How much of a problem is it to you if you want to listen to it? Also, do you actually buy official albums or strictly download them illegally (or a mix of both)? Do you think these albums are adequately priced?

If we're talking about remixes and the like, I don't really care for them at all (e.g. arranged albums, Black Mages stuff, doujin). I've tried some of it out, but I haven't really found them to be necessary. I get too attached to the original tunes, and then perceive the changes to the songs as flaws rather than improvements. I don't mind the stuff for novelty, but it never makes my hall-of-fame playlist.

I don't buy official albums too often, thogh there are some that I intend to purchase when I have the cash to do so. However, many of the songs i listen to don't even have an official album (chiptune era), so I couldn't buy them if i wanted to. I don't have as much of an issue with VGM downloading as I do other standalone forms of music. Bands survive primarily off of their music, whereas video game companies get MUCH more money from game sales than from VGM soundtrack sales, so downloading won't ultimately cripple them financially or anything.

6. Which genres/styles do you mainly listen to? Which do you avoid?

I tend toward VGM which has the inherent 'video-gamey' sound to it, which I don't know how to put into words, but I hope you all know what I mean. That applies mostly to music from the 8-bit and 16-bit era.
I also love music from RPG's particularly. This is because I feel they are much more emotional (they're well developed, epic stories after all), leading to the kind of music i like.

I avoid any VGM which sounds (to me) like second-rate rock/metal music (the same can be said for some of the epic classical music stuff i hear, but it doesn't irritate me quite as much). For example, I despise the music of Battle Gear and Guilty Gear. A lot of what I like about VGM comes from the characteristic timbres it has (mainly due to the hardware 'limitations' of the past). Throwing in rock instruments isn't a problem in itself, but most of what i've heard just comes off as if it's made up of stock riffs and chord progressions (prove me wrong folks..prove me wrong!).

7. If one of these genres also exists in non-game music, do you also listen to it from that category? If not, why?

What I said in Q6 doesn't apply to non-VGM for me, mainly because lyrics and/or attitude of a rock artist can make a huge difference.
I try not to favour one genre over another, be it written for video games or not - quality is all that matters in the end (P.S. country sucks balls). So there's bound ot be some genre overlap betwen VGM and non-VGM to a more or less random extent.


8. Video gaming had a reputation for a long time of being a childish or geeky hobby, and a part of it persists today. Inevitably, to a certain extent, the music also fell under this denigrative categorization (especially retro chiptunes). Do you think VGM is as valid as any other music from a listener's point of view? Additionally, are you fully comfortable about mentioning you listen to VGM when you discuss with someone who isn't into gaming?

Absolutely. Some of the best music I've ever heard comes from VGM. I'd say anything pre 8-bit might not be so valid, being so severely limited (sounding something like the bleeps, the sweeps, and the creeps ). But if you enjoy it, g'head - i'd never want to come across as someone who would make fun of someone else for what they listen to. Anyway, Lots of the 8-bit stuff is on the same level as rock music, i.e. Megaman stuff. That music is as musically complex, if not more, than your average pop rock/metal tune.

The only people I really talk about VGM to are other musicians and my friends. Musicians are the only group of people I've run into who might care or give it a chance - I find they judge music more on intrinsic merits rather than for social reasons. This also includes serious music listeners who don't play anything, but know enough about what good music is through listening. Non-musicians don't be offended, I'm only generalizing and I'm glad to hear when am wrong about about such stereotypes!

9. How would you compare game music from the past (aka chiptunes, up to the SNES era) and modern material?

I don't know if i can answer this question too well, because i'm usually a generation or two behind the curve (I'm just starting up on PS2 now). I don't know if one era is any better than another, as I always manage to extract some really respectable material from each that I've played (i hope that trend continues).

I don't like the idea of VGM becoming mainstream - I think that may kill its charm. If it becomes mainstream, gaming producers will actually start to care about how their VGM sounds (whereas in the past it seems composers were given a wonderful degree of freedom). I hope I'm wrong about this, but i think that if VGM becomes significantly profitable, it will ultimately end up losing its interesting, quirky, eclectic, unpredictable qualities.

10. During its infancy, VGM was unique in part because of its electronic sound coming from limited sound chips. Today, any kind of instruments can be used and thus this uniqueness doesn't always persist. Do you believe VGM should sound different from other music categories? If so, how could this be achieved nowadays?

I think timbre is arguably the most distinguishing factor in 8-bit/16-bit music. Much of the music is composed and arranged the same way any regular pop song would be done (see the previous Megaman example). But the timbral difference makes it very unique and gives it an entirely different character. I don't know if VGM ought to sound different than other musical categories, but I know I prefer it that way. Off the top of my head i have no idea how this could be done nowadays, because in the past i believe the character stemmed much from the limitations imposed (limits aren't always a bad thing).
Bottom line, as long as VGM continues to be interesting, i'll be a happy listener.

11. Most gamers don't particularly care about game music (or at least, to the extent we do). Thus, it's most probably not part of their playlists. Some producers believe that players would prefer to hear their favorite mainstream songs while playing rather than original music, hence the use of licensed material. What is your opinion about this?

As a VGM fan I hate it. But I can totally understand why someone would want to do that if they could care less for VGM. I think it's a horrible for games artistically, but not all games are meant to be art forms (i just like the one's that try to be, myself). I hope that kind of approach doesn't become the norm, personally.

12. Other producers, which aren't as radical, may still hire a composer, yet ask him/her to create something that sounds extremely close to popular music. This does not make highly unique VGM, yet it can still be very enjoyable and is a creative process. Do you see a problem in this?

No it's not a problem - some people like that stuff, and all the power to 'em. Personally, I don't really tend to care for such music that i've heard so far, as I've already said in Q6, but that's just preference. And maybe i'll hear some stuff in the future that'll change my mind (hopefully).

13. A popular trend these days (notably in the West) is to make games that are very cinematic in nature, mimicking Hollywood down to the use of (usually) orchestral cinematic music. How do you feel about this? Since these two media are converging when it comes to telling a story on screen, should games (and their music) be any different from films? If so, how?

This one's pretty much circumstantial to me - I've heard some pretty decent stuff and some pretty lame ass stuff. I think eventually film music and game music will be more or less indistinguishable though, at least for games intending to be realistic and movie-like. I hope the cartoony-ness of games doesn't die off though, as I love games games of that style.

14. Certain producers and composers believe that the perfect music should not be noticeable unless it's not there. Another way to formulate this would be to say that the music shouldn't be in the forefront to avoid distracting the player. In practice, this often results in the use of an adaptative music system, playing an ambient (see "usually unmelodic") track when nothing special is going on and then loading a more dynamic cue when action kicks in. When listened to on a stand alone basis, these soundtracks often make an inconsistent experience (unless for huge ambient fans). What do you think about this?

I've never totally agreed with that principle. I understand where it comes from, and it has its places (i.e. you don't want to drown out dialogue with music). But I can say that for many of my fav movies, i can listen to selections from the score outside of the movie and really enjoy it. I guess to me the music is created to support the movie, but that doesn't have to be at a 0/100 ratio at all.

Good music + Good movie > Mediocre music + Good movie

15. VGM is inevitably linked to the games it comes from. In fact, it's created to suit them in the first place! Is there any soundtrack which you regard very lowly from a listener point of view, but that you found worked well in-game? If possible, how could it have been more enjoyable to listen to while still working as well in-game?

Off-hand, a good example would be Metroid Prime 3 (and many other Metroid games, i'm sure). Pretty bland music on it's own, but does OK at setting the tone of the game.

16. Do you think there is too much music sounding the same? If so, could this be because there are too many similar games? If the games weren't to change, how could the music become different without sounding out of place?

I couldn't say I've noticed this anymore than in any other musical medium, but as i said i'm slightly behind the times..

17. Do you notice any difference between VGM created in Japan, America and Europe? If so, what does one do better or worse than the others, and vice versa?

Not really, but it's not something that's all that pertinent to me when listening. I can say that most of the VGM i enjoy came from Japan though.

18. VGM is a lot more popular in Japan than it is in the West, with album releases being a good indicator. How could things get better in the West on that matter?

I think it's just a matter of time. We're still at the point in the west where listening to VGM is considered somewhat 'hardcore' in terms of being a VG fan.

19. If you had to sum up in three words what you expect from VGM, which would you choose?

variety, intricacy, fun


BTW, that was a really fun survey to fill out! Really interesting, important questions for the most part.

How ya doing, buddy?
Music is a mysterious thing. Sometimes it makes people remember things they do not expect. Many thoughts, feelings, memories... things almost forgotten... Regardless of whether the listener desires to remember or not.
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Old Apr 6, 2008, 03:27 AM Local time: Apr 6, 2008, 01:27 AM #14 of 14
These lists of questions are nice... but my thoughts have never flowed well within the confines of things like this. So I just want to lay out a few things in my own style as the thread creator said would be allowed.

I love VGM, mainly because video games have been a hobby of mine since as long as I can remember. My introduction to entertainment was primarily molded from my interaction with video games. Before books and movies and television could make an impact, I was playing video games. Using this as a base, I want to now state that I feel that a common misconception people have with video game music albums being primarily produced in Japan and rarely produced here is the cultural difference we as Westerners have with our Eastern counterparts.

I often wonder if the Japanese make comparisons of VGM to things like so-called "Actual Musicians" (humor the term, please) or if the Japanese relate the stories of their video games to the plots and structure and quality of their films, television shows, or novels. I'm willing to wager that they don't.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think over in Japan video games are recognized as a viable entertainment medium. Something that stands on its own. We're talking about a culture that is only now seeing the death of the arcade, whereas you'd be lucky to find a viable arcade here in America now, unless you live somewhere in Southern California or near places like the Family Fun Center in Omaha. I feel there's a lot to be said when we see "all about" guides and, more to the topic, VGM soundtrack releases in Japan but rarely anything of the sort here in America until recently.

I think they regard the music as standing alone and they might not make the same comparisons we do to "Real Music" as some might put it. Or at the very least, those concerns and comparisons are negligible to them, because there's very much a market for VGM albums there. The way VGM seems to be regarded here in the West is changing, because production seems to be better and more like movies and television and such. I'm not sure how I feel about this, because I liked a lot of the signature repetition, the "chiptune"/"Sounds like its from Mega Man" description of the sound of certain VGM. It evokes something familiar from my childhood, something I hope doesn't disappear as games get more cinematic, become more simulation or "experience" than contests of competitive and/or personal mental skill.

I think it's a mistake to try and make distinctions or comparisons to other forms of entertainment when discussing video games or VGM in this case, because while video games might be similar to movies, books, and such, they are still games. The outer art is molded around the "game" itself, the music included. And I enjoy video game music because it evokes those contextual feelings at times. I think that's enough to make it stand alone to me, even if it really could be said to not be as good as "real music" or whatever.

I think as video games become more than what they were, at least presentation wise, we'll experience newer, but not necessarily better music as time progresses. The only thing I hope of video game music is that it and its fans don't forget where it came from as it gets to where it is going.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?
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