On learning Japanese, and also, how many of you know/master it?

Considering the fact that a considerable number of the Gamingforce community peruse Japanese-related media (ranging from anime to manga to J-music to J-porn), I wonder how many of you then have actually taken the time to master the language it's delivered through?

Speaking of which, I have always wanted to learn Japanese, but never really got into the momentum of going on about to learning it. That is, until three days ago, when I had woken up with an immense throbbing (haha!) desire to learn Japanese. Since then, learning Japanese has been the only thing going through my head. I went online, scoured through several blogs, looking for inspiration and others who had done the same (of note: 'All Japanese All The Time' is an excellent blog, Google it!), found some hiragana and katakana sites, and started teaching myself.

I'm proud to say that I mastered the hiragana writing system in about a day and a half and can actually read out entire passages of Japanese text now (although I don't actually understand what the contents of the passages are about, and I have to skip any and all kanji sections, but this helps somewhat, because I can always check the meanings with a dictionary.)

Next on, I'm going to tackle Katakana, and then kanji, of which I will try to memorize at least all of the 1945 minimum kanji. I'm really, really going to try and master Japanese, and it'll all be self-taught because I've no time (nor money) for attending classes, most of which would be too slow and cumbersome for me anyway. (Plus the great thing about learning through the Internet as compared to attending classes is the available community: there's always a bunch of passionate learners out there who are willing to help you. Plus, torrents are extremely helpful with the e-books they provide.)

So is there anyone here who speaks/reads/writes Japanese? Or learned it by himself/herself and is now fluent in the language? Or has any tips for the beginner such as me?

Come on, I'm feeling motivated here and I want to share the blazing flames with everyone

Jam it back in, in the dark.

I took a couple years of it in college, but nothing approaching mastery. I got all the basic grammar down, along with hiragana and katakana, but my kanji and vocabulary knowledge is pretty much nil. Oh, and I can write my name in kanji, but that's about it.

Essentially, I know just enough Japanese to know that a lot of other people who claim to know Japanese have no idea what they're talking about.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

I work at the largest used bookstore chain in Japan, BookOff (in the New York store). This is after 3 years of high school classes, lots of studying, and some self-teaching. I'm satisfied. I've passed the third-level JLPT which will eventually be one of your goals (Fourth level first though.)

Go buy Genki, its a two-volume textbook for Japanese students in college. It's the best investment you can make in learning Japanese and you won't regret it. If you're broke, scrape up the money, because if I had any other textbook I wouldn't be as far as I am now. There aren't many, if any, free and useful online resources for grammar so, this is probably your best bet.

Also, when you get better, check out 3yen's Japanese language blog. It'll get into the intricacies of the language to help you become more fluent on a native speaker level.

How ya doing, buddy?

Considering the fact that a considerable number of the Gamingforce community peruse Japanese-related media (ranging from anime to manga to J-music to J-porn), it's no wonder that many of GFF has actually taken the time to try to master the language it's delivered through, fail hopelessly and then proceed to make threads about it.

http://gamingforce.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2035
http://gamingforce.org/forums/showthread.php?t=15063
http://gamingforce.org/forums/showthread.php?t=4511

The topic has been beaten more times than Paris Hilton. But to help, I took it in high school and college and found Genki to be a really good book, it's structured well in terms of introducing grammar points but as I recall, the vocab was kind of wonky. Like tall would be introduced in one chapter and then short would be introduced 5 chapters later. Also it's really lacking in substantial kanji so you have to buy other books for that, I used The Basic Kanji Book by Bonjinsha Co. in my kanji class. I guess what you can do is just memorize sentence structure, grammar patterns, verb conjugation, kanji and vocabulary but after 6 years, I realized that you can only get so far with the language through strictly academic avenues and you really have to get in a situation where you are forced to use the language. Watching anime, listening to JPOP and reading manga doesn't cut it so invade Japan with your ferventness, immerse yourself in the language and culture and you too, may score a petite Japanese girl.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by kat

[...] immerse yourself in the language and culture and you too, may score a petite Japanese girl.

That's a lie. If you show them green money they'll fuck you. Although they aren't as cute as in the legends so I don't know why you'd want to.

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I was in a different situation. I was dating a Japanese girl, and was going to Japan to meet her family and pop the question. In order to make a good impression, I tried to learn as much spoken Japanese as possible in a short amount of time (a few weeks). I found this CD series to be useful:
http://www.deepdiscount.com/viewprod...&extid=df00029

I only went through the first two CD's, but I was generally able to ask directions, get across simple ideas, etc. I think her family and friends enjoyed my efforts . Long story short, she did decide to marry me, Lord knows why. My kids will speak better Japanese than I ever will.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

I majored in Japanese for 3 years (+ one year in Gifu, totaling 4 years of active studies) and cleared level 2 of the JLPT. I was going to take a shot at level 1 last year, but overslept and missed it. It wouldn't have been such a big deal had it not been for the fact that it costs a lot of money to enter AND it's held annually, only once a year. Better luck next time :P.

Anyway, I am pretty confident with my Japanese, but I don't think I'll ever to be able to truly MASTER it since it takes considerable time to study the many layers that conprise the Japanese language. Beyond many different levels of politeness you need to fully understand the dialects as well before you can even start claiming that you're a master, that not even mentioning the fact that you need to learn about 2000 kanji before you can read an ordinary newspaper! Above this, there are many ways in which you can personalize your own identity using personal pronouns etc., one of the more interesting aspects of Japanese IMO.

The kanji part in itself takes ages to memorize and learn and I'm still, after 4-5 years time, struggling with it because it takes more than just memorizing the 2000 kanji by heart. Just knowing the form of the kanji isn't enough! You need to know the different "on"(Chinese) and "kun"(Japanese) readings for each one of them and if that wasn't enough some kanji are read in special ways that, sometimes, won't even appear in your dictionary if you search by using convential methods. You just have to learn them by heart, IF you are lucky enough to encounter them, that is.

But enough about the Japanese language in general and more about me. As I mentioned before, I've been to Japan for roughly one year, in Gifu. I was an exchange student and I didn't start out very well since my Japanese skills were under average and there were times when I couldn't find the words, simply because my vocabulary wasn't all that great. Sure, I knew how to present myself in front of a group, do some simple shopping, order stuff at the restaurants and make simple conversation with the natives, but it just wasn't satisfactory and sometimes quite frustrating.

But then something happened. Due to the fact that most Japanese don't speak English very well and also partly because I was determined to improve my Japanese, I gradually got better. I went from being one of the worst in my class to being one of the very best and I succeeded many of my classmates. I tried to use my time wisely and spent as much of my free time as possible on making new Japanese friends, learning stuff from them each and every day and I still talk to them over MSN or the phone etc. so as to keep in touch and, at the same time, prevent the deterioration of my Japanese.

I can honestly estimate that I must have improved 100 times during my year as an exchange student and my Japanese is still improving. My skills are now good enough to be able to, for instance, play RPGs in Japanese (yay, native language for the win!) which I enjoy a lot, being a video gamer (yup, I've said it) since childhood. I can engage in deeper conversation and I'll actually be working as a translator, translating spoken Swedish/English into Japanese, for about a week starting next month. These are only references for you to understand how much I've progressed and I am in no way trying to brag about my skills (even though I am damn proud of myself getting this far).

Originally Posted by ultima

Although they aren't as cute as in the legends so I don't know why you'd want to.

Hahaha, right you are. In fact, 80% of all japanese girls I've seen have, in my opinion, been quite ugly. Some are pretty hot, but must people will probably get turned off when they realize that not all japanese girls look like idols.

FELIPE NO

See here.
Good luck.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

That link is rad. ='D Reminds me of back when I was taking Japanese in highschool 'cause I hated French, haha.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Being able to take Japanese in high school is, like, cheating.

How ya doing, buddy?

I was enrolled in YG (Yujin Gakuen) in Middle School through the DV (da Vinci) program - three middleschool academys, one building.

I haven't kept up with my Japanese since my early highschool freshmen year. I moved in with my father only to find that there is nobody in Lebanon who knows decent Japanese. People here say manga like "meinga" - it's flippig annoying.

I may have been proficiant and confident with my Japanese at one time, but that was almost four years ago. I've moved on to less-fun things (like German, and Russian). But Japanese is not as hard to learn as one would initially expect. Good luck and kudos to you with pursuing this language.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

I studied in Japan for a year. I can write and speak a bit (my grammar sucks...bigtime). The biggest problem would be keeping it. If you don't use it often, you end up forgetting. I passed 3rd lvl JLPT...barely with just less than 8 months to study. I took the test in Japan. I didn't take 4th lvl.

The best way to get Kanji with a PC...turn on your Japanese characters in windows. Copy a kanji from a webpage and paste in notepad. Use the "Reconverse". This isn't always 100% but for normal words, its very useful. For names, this thing is a bit off.

Another technique is to think of Kanji as a picture. I liked it when they taught me this way. It helps you visualize.

If you are using a paper dictionary, I recommend the one with a portrait of a geisha in the front. Its a bit big but its the best. The words are alphabetical order but with Hiragana AND kanji. It also has some slang.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Sword Familiar

Being able to take Japanese in high school is, like, cheating.

Eh, 'tis why I took French.

I was speaking idiomatically.

I can interpret the general idea of what's being said. Speaking Japanese isn't what I want. I just wanna know how to read and comprehend it, and nothing more =U I'm pretty decent with languages from what I've noticed, but speaking them isn't my cup o'tea (probably due to losing exposure to that language for tracts of time. Daily exposure is needed to pick up on speaking it well).

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

I try to hang out as much as possible with the japanese exchange students that come here every year (about 25-35 a year, a pretty decent number if you're studying Japanese since chances are high that you'll meet at least some of them). Also, my gf is japanese so that really helps, too. I've been able to keep up, and improve, my Japanese even after I stopped studying it actively.

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-- note: changing a cynical comment to something more helpful to the OP --

I realize I'm one of the few native speakers around here, so I'll share my experiences.

1) Out of the 8 white men I know that speak Japanese, only 1 or 2 of them are those that I know who have learned the language for the purpose of making a career out of it (and not due to the fascination of anime / video games). If this is the case for your desire to learn Japanese, props to you.
2) Best you can do is find someone to practice with. Email buddies or chat rooms are a good place to start (or was, last I checked about 8 years ago).
3) I'm sorry, but just dating a Japanese girl or watching shittons of anime just isn't going to help--best those would do for you is get your ears used to the syntax of the language spoken.

Japanese is my native tongue, although I'm born and raised 99.7% of my life here in Los Angeles. I speak, write, and read fairly better in Japanese than I do in English. However, I see (and have always seen) this as my handicap. I grew up in a neighborhood yet still swarming with Japanese temporary re-assigned businessmen and their familes (was popular back in the 80's and 90's for whole plane loads of families to be working in the Los Angeles branches of several big-name Japanese companies prior to the big economical collapse of '92~'93). Most of my friends through childhood were those kids, who'd be here in America temporarily (6 years at best/longest; they'd go back to Japan by the time they reached high school). My parents didn't allow English in the house. My neighbors were Japanese and they were even MORE clueless when it came to English. It's a very odd world, but it's kind of like East L.A. -- I'm sure immigrants from Mexico would find themselves right at home and not needing to adjust (language/culture wise) in East L.A. Well, back in the 80's and early 90's, that was the way for Japanese people too.

So considering my background, I really don't know how to help a grown adult go through the ropes that I learned from preschool through grade 10, in a matter of days/weeks/months. I went through all the stuff you're trying to learn in a span of 18 years. Best advise I can give you is that you practice. ONLY reading manga or watching/listening to anime/j-movies/videogames isn't going to help at all. Read, write, and speak -- PRACTICE this.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

長過ぎる、読まなかった。

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Quote:

Originally posted by: Decoy Goat
長過ぎる、読まなかった。

"Really long. Didn't read it"

....Only a handful of people will understand this you know... if its in Jap and kanji

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Minoko

"Really long. Didn't read it"

....Only a handful of people will understand this you know... if its in Jap and kanji

盆暗。。。。。

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Sadly, I forgot Japanese when I learned Chinese. Interestingly enough, I found Chinese surprisngly easy. Maybe because my celebrity status in China allowed me to instant imerse myself with practice buddies.

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by Minoko

"Really long. Didn't read it"

....Only a handful of people will understand this you know... if its in Jap and kanji

Nah, it's just a fancy way of saying "tl;dr" and making sure that it's going above the poster's head in the same process.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Decoy Goat

長過ぎる、読まなかった。

日本語で話さないようにしよう。
こりゃ、「長すぎるので、読めなかった」の意味でしょう（笑）。

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by Shorty

3) I'm sorry, but just dating a Japanese girl or watching shittons of anime just isn't going to help--best those would do for you is get your ears used to the syntax of the language spoken.

Although I can agree on the anime part not getting you very far, dating a japanese girl will actually get you more than just "used to the syntax". You'll get instant feedback on all your questions AND you'll learn new words in the progress. It's actually, and practically, one of the most effective ways to learn Japanese(or any other new language for that matter) in my opinion.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by arch_slayer

日本語で話さないようにしよう。
こりゃ、「長すぎるので、読めなかった」の意味でしょう（笑）。

more like ariGAYto am i rite

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

i was thinking about learning japanese, just for something to do, kinda seems like fun.

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