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Virginia Tech Shooting: At least 33 Fatalities
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Trigunnerz
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Old Apr 17, 2007, 01:29 PM Local time: Apr 17, 2007, 10:29 AM #101 of 191
Wow. The biggest school shooting ever in the US... Another Columbine, except in a college setting. I'm in shock.

What I don't understand is how there was a shooting 2 hours earlier. And the school wasn't on lock down or anything. People attended class as if nothing had happened... Shouldn't there have been more security and police officers roaming the campus trying to catch the shooter 2 hours earlier?

My prayers go to those who were killed in this massacre...

The police believes that the shooter is a Korean immigrant, majoring in English. I wonder how the shooter being a minority will play out. I mean after Columbine, many schools started to crack down on bullies and video games. But now a similar incident has been done by a minority. Will this bring about a rally against racism?

I was speaking idiomatically.

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Last edited by Trigunnerz; Apr 17, 2007 at 01:36 PM.
Lizardcommando
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Old Apr 17, 2007, 01:38 PM Local time: Apr 17, 2007, 11:38 AM #102 of 191
Read in wikipedia that the guy was a South Korean student named Cho Seung-hui. He also left a note criticizing "rich kids", "debauchery" and "deceitful charlatans". Link to note.

Disturbing shit.
Fuck, that guy really hated the world. I wonder if any of his creative writing papers will be released to the press.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?
Dopefish
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Old Apr 17, 2007, 02:20 PM #103 of 191
Racism won't be a consideration. The victims were as diverse as the college. Young, old, American, Asian, black, etc.

FELIPE NO

Bradylama
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Old Apr 17, 2007, 03:39 PM Local time: Apr 17, 2007, 03:39 PM #104 of 191
Odd. There was a recent shooting in Appalachia that was committed by a Nigerian man. I forget where it was but the idea of foreign nationals committing school shootings becoming a trend is odd, especially in that kind of a locality.

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Trigunnerz
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Old Apr 17, 2007, 04:06 PM Local time: Apr 17, 2007, 01:06 PM #105 of 191
Yes, I'm jumping the gun with my previous post. I really want to know what set this guy off. From what I've read so far, he seemed to be a loner. His neighbor described him as being quiet and kept to himself. He had a demented sense of thought, writing plays that were so horrendous that he was assigned to therapy. Maybe he was just depressed? Or did he just have a sick, demented mind?

I want to hear what his family has to say. They must be devastated.

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BlueMikey
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Old Apr 17, 2007, 04:22 PM Local time: Apr 17, 2007, 02:22 PM #106 of 191
I want to hear what his family has to say. They must be devastated.
If it is anything other than "we are completely fucking incompetent" then I don't give a crap what they have to say.

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Bradylama
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Old Apr 17, 2007, 05:23 PM Local time: Apr 17, 2007, 05:23 PM #107 of 191
Think Thompson can tie Starcraft to a school shooting?

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Dopefish
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Old Apr 17, 2007, 05:37 PM #108 of 191
Think Thompson can tie Starcraft to a school shooting?
World of Warcraft has guns in it...

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Genthar
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Old Apr 17, 2007, 06:46 PM Local time: Apr 18, 2007, 12:46 AM #109 of 191
It's a shame that people like Thompson can't be in a gun-toting psycho's firing line rather than innocent students.

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RacinReaver
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Old Apr 17, 2007, 07:29 PM Local time: Apr 17, 2007, 05:29 PM #110 of 191
What I don't understand is how there was a shooting 2 hours earlier. And the school wasn't on lock down or anything. People attended class as if nothing had happened... Shouldn't there have been more security and police officers roaming the campus trying to catch the shooter 2 hours earlier?
As they said earlier on in the news cycle, it was thought this was just a domestic dispute and there was no cause to lock down an entire campus because of something that happened in one of the dorms.

I mean, if you don't find a gun or the shooter from the dorms and the campus is on lockdown, how long do you keep everyone stuck where they are? It'll take a pretty darned long time to search room by room to try and find someone, and even after that there's no guarantee the person would even still be on campus.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?
KCJ506
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Old Apr 17, 2007, 08:02 PM #111 of 191
It appears that Dr. Phil has joined in on the Jack Thompson bandwagon.

Link

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No. Hard Pass.
Salty for Salt's Sake


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Old Apr 17, 2007, 08:07 PM Local time: Apr 17, 2007, 07:07 PM #112 of 191
Wait a minute. Phil is talking about people mimicking entertainment? Didn't he saw off his foot in a Wayans movie?

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Old Apr 17, 2007, 08:40 PM #113 of 191
Quote:
If it is anything other than "we are completely fucking incompetent" then I don't give a crap what they have to say.
I can't believe you would say this... his parents have nothing to do with what he does. They don't have a responsibility to apologize or say anything. They are already going to have it hard enough as it is. Talking to the media is the absolute worst thing they could do.

Jam it back in, in the dark.
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Salty for Salt's Sake


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Old Apr 17, 2007, 08:41 PM Local time: Apr 17, 2007, 07:41 PM #114 of 191
Oh yeah. Because parenting has nothing to do with how a child turns out. At all.

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Bradylama
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Old Apr 17, 2007, 08:46 PM Local time: Apr 17, 2007, 08:46 PM #115 of 191
Clue-ins to parenting quality should've been flagged when he wrote a play in 10 pages about a pedophilic father who murders his 13 year-old son. Any Southern Playwright could've come up with that one.

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Old Apr 17, 2007, 09:04 PM #116 of 191
A parent can't be held responsible for all their child's issues. He's his own man, made his choices and that's that.

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Paco
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Old Apr 17, 2007, 09:08 PM Local time: Apr 17, 2007, 07:08 PM #117 of 191
As much as I want to agree with you there, if you don't think his upbringing had anything to do with how this whole thing turned out you're as naive as the next Jack Thompson knob-shiner.

I was speaking idiomatically.
Klaus
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Old Apr 17, 2007, 09:26 PM #118 of 191
I just think "we are completely fucking incompetent" is a stretch. Unless they supplied the weapon and told him to massacre a bunch of people, it's not all their fault.

I'd go as high as 50/50 though.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?
"So shut your cow-mouth or I'll remove your face by hand before I stop your whore's heart!"
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Old Apr 17, 2007, 09:33 PM Local time: Apr 18, 2007, 10:33 AM #119 of 191
I still can't figure out why there's a higher rate of shooting incidents happening on developed countries as compared to under-developed countries like the Philippines. I guess it's easier to purchase guns there, or something. And we all know that guns + angsty asians don't mix that well.

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Klaus
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Old Apr 17, 2007, 09:49 PM #120 of 191
Well obviously. I would too, it's an embarrassment.

Plus there's always some other loon out there who wants to avenge the victims by going after people they'd like to believe contributed to their deaths.

It's like totally The Punisher's thing.

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Old Apr 17, 2007, 09:54 PM #121 of 191
The guy apparently had some sort of thing against his father, judging by the content of some of his writing.

On a different note, I was in the Roanoke(30 miles N. of Blacksburg) Wal-Mart today and saw some employees completely reworking one of the aisles with nothing but Tech goods. Never underestimate the human ability to capitalize on death.

Jam it back in, in the dark.
Old Apr 17, 2007, 09:59 PM #122 of 191
Guh, someone in China has decided to recreate this tragedy in glorious 3d.

Spoiler:


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FatsDomino
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Bradylama
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Old Apr 17, 2007, 10:09 PM Local time: Apr 17, 2007, 10:09 PM #123 of 191
So Barack Obama's outed himself as a complete shitheel:

Quote:
http://www.wispolitics.com/1006/20070416obama.mp3
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmi..._Violence.html

"Maybe nothing could have been done to prevent it," he says toward the end.

So he moves quickly to the abstract: Violence, and the general place of violence in American life.

"There's also another kind of violence that we're going to have to think about. It's not necessarily the physical violence, but the violence that we perpetrate on each other in other ways," he said, and goes on to catalogue other forms of "violence."

There's the "verbal violence" of Imus.

There's "the violence of men and women who have worked all their lives and suddenly have the rug pulled out from under them because their job is moved to another country."

There's "the violence of children whose voices are not heard in communities that are ignored,"

And so, Obama says, "there's a lot of different forms of violence in our society, and so much of it is rooted in our incapacity to recognize ourselves in each other."
Obama 2008!

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.
Temari
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Old Apr 17, 2007, 10:13 PM #124 of 191
Wow, awesome. The idiots out there are already feeding off this, trying to pull their own little stunts.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070418/..._DUzRscTNH2ocA

Basically, eight different states have had schools and universities lock down because of threatening notes (mentioning VT) and supiscious activity. My own school isnt mentioned in that, but we just had an alert put up on our website... someone wrote “Go VT is going to happen here 2” (sic) on a wall in a academic building's bathroom. That would explain why Campus Safety was prowling around the student center (I'm at work right now, student center building manager)... but if that is why, then they already fucked up, because they didnt tell me why they were there.

It just sickens me that people are trying to get a laugh out of this, or worse, doing stuff like this to get out of class.

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Dan
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Old Apr 17, 2007, 10:29 PM Local time: Apr 17, 2007, 11:29 PM #125 of 191
The below is part of series of post I made against Jack "the FBI found the violent media was the common demonator" I saved this but neglected to save the first two segments. It shouldn’t be too hard to follow even thought it missing a lot of context. Sorry don’t have time to write proper post but at the same time I feel the need to counter Jack’s lies.


Just to jam yet another nail in the coffin of Jacks declaration that immersion in violent media was the sole common denominator in school shooting, as I demonstrated already the FBI and secret service caution against approach that try to explain these tragedies in terms of a single common denominator, but lets give Jack that benefit of the doubt and say that it could be consider A common denominator it still could not be consider the SOLE common denominator

Let’s have a look:
1) “Almost three-quarters of the attackers felt persecuted, bullied, threatened, attacked
or injured by others prior to the incident (71percent, n=29)” page 30 of the secret service report.
Curious that Thompson rallies against the game Bully but effective turns a deaf ear to real life bulling when he calls immersion in violent media was the sole common denominator, when quite clear this is more common against school shooters.

2) “most attackers exhibited a history of suicide attempts or suicidal
thoughts at some point prior to their attack (78 percent, n=32).” Page 31 of the secret service report.

Again another more common variable

3) “More than half of the attackers had a documented history of feeling extremely depressed or desperate (61 percent, n=25).” Page 31 of the secret service report.

And another more common variable

4) “Almost all of the attackers had experienced or
perceived some major loss prior to the attack (98 percent, n=40). These losses
included a perceived failure or loss of status (66 percent, n=27); loss of a loved one
or of a significant relationship, including a romantic relationship (51 percent, n=21);”
Page 32 of the secret service report.

If some one can explain too me how Thompson concludes that some thing with a 98 percent prevalence but something with a 60% is not a common denominator I would like too know.

“For most attackers, their outward behaviors suggested difficulty in coping with loss
(83 percent, n=34).”
Page 32 of the secret service report.

5) “Experience using weapons and access to them was common for many attackers.
Nearly two-thirds of the attackers had a known history of weapons use, including
knives, guns and bombs (63 percent, n=26).”
Page 36 of the secret service report.

How is immersion the sole common denominator here?

Now for the final nail the secret service made ten key findings regarding school shooters. (which again are not meant to be looked at in isolation from one another) Notice how immersions in violent media which Thompson says was the SOLE common denominator isn’t even one of the TEN key finding of the report:

“The 10 key findings that the authors believe may have implications for the
development of strategies to address the problem of targeted school violence are as
follows:
• Incidents of targeted violence at school rarely are sudden, impulsive acts.
• Prior to most incidents, other people knew about the attacker’s idea and/or
plan to attack.
• Most attackers did not threaten their targets directly prior to advancing the
attack.
• There is no accurate or useful profile of students who engaged in targeted
school violence.
• Most attackers engaged in some behavior prior to the incident that caused
others concern or indicated a need for help.
• Most attackers had difficulty coping with significant losses or personal
failures. Moreover, many had considered or attempted suicide.
• Many attackers felt bullied, persecuted or injured by others prior to the
attack.
• Most attackers had access to and had used weapons prior to the attack.
• In many cases, other students were involved in some capacity.
• Despite prompt law enforcement responses, most shooting incidents were
stopped by means other than law enforcement intervention.”
Secret service report page 40

What part of this implies a SOLE common denominator? A sole common denominator which is not mentioned on the list no less?

I ask no one to take my word for it so here is the link to secret service study: The secret service’s report: www.treasury.gov/usss/ntac/ssi_final_report.pdf
The FBI’s report: www.fbi.gov/publications/school/school2.pdf

Can violent media play a role in these tragedies yes, but saying that it the common denominator is like coke a cola is the common denominator in diabetes.

How ya doing, buddy?

Last edited by Dan; Apr 17, 2007 at 10:38 PM.
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