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Symmetry and You
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Alice
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Old Mar 16, 2006, 01:13 PM #1 of 35
Symmetry and You

Here’s a link to an article I’ve been looking for for a long time. It’s a little lengthy – and old (1996) - but it’s one of the most fascinating articles I’ve ever read. There was also a documentary on TLC a few years ago that dealt with the same studies that are cited in this article.

http://hss.fullerton.edu/sociology/orleans/symmetry.txt

Basically, scientists believe that a preference for certain physical traits is inborn in all humans. The findings show that facial beauty is determined by how symmetrical a person’s face is (Denzel Washington’s is almost perfectly symmetrical). Not only that, but people with symmetrical bodies are more likely to be more athletic, more dominant in personality, and on average start having sex earlier than those who aren’t symmetrical.

It also explains men’s overall preference for curvy, physically fit women rather than super-skinny or obese women and brings up a couple of very interesting findings: Women have more orgasms with symmetrical men, and symmetrical men (but not women!) are more likely to cheat on their partners than asymmetrical ones.

What do you think about this article? How does a person determine whether or not they are symmetrical?

Personally, it alleviates a lot of guilt on my part for placing such a high emphasis on physical attractiveness, since apparently this “beautylust” has occurred in every society in the world during every era in history and is basically human nature.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Last edited by Alice; Mar 16, 2006 at 01:50 PM.
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Struttin'


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Old Mar 16, 2006, 01:16 PM #2 of 35
I don't believe it for a second. At least, not in that context. I think that symmetry is so subtle, we don't even notice it.

And really - who is the judge of beauty? You really think that symmetry holds some truth in the definition of beauty?

I think it STILL boils down to preference. Maybe some people prefer symmetry. Some others don't. I don't think it really PROVES anything though, you know?

There's nowhere I can't reach.
Alice
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Old Mar 16, 2006, 01:18 PM #3 of 35
According to the article, humans detect symmetry and don't even realize they're doing it.

Did you even read the article? We're talking numerous studies - even studies involving infants - and the results are all the same.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.
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Struttin'


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Old Mar 16, 2006, 01:22 PM #4 of 35
Originally Posted by AliceNWondrland
According to the article, humans detect symmetry and don't even realize they're doing it.

Did you even read the article? We're talking numerous studies - even studies involving infants - and the results are all the same.
I read a study once. It said that God really did exist!

I also read a study that stated listening to Mozart as a child will definitely raise your IQ!

If you believe in this crap Alice, I want you to also believe in tarot cards, the ouiji board, and the Loch Ness monster.

PS - no such things as perfect symmetry.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?
Alice
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Old Mar 16, 2006, 01:26 PM #5 of 35
I didn't say "perfect." That phrase wasn't used anywhere in the article, either.

I absolutely believe this is true. It would explain a lot, actually.

Also, I do believe that you can raise a child's IQ by having him listen to classical music. Children who listen to classical music and/or play musical instruments have accelerated development in the math and science parts of their brains.

I was speaking idiomatically.
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Struttin'


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Old Mar 16, 2006, 01:29 PM #6 of 35
Originally Posted by AliceNWondrland
I didn't say "perfect." That phrase wasn't used anywhere in the article, either.

I absolutely believe this is true. It would explain a lot, actually.
America is America. I chose to not believe it. I mean, maybe its me, but I don't really LIKE beauty? Kinda gives me a HEADACHE?

And, I mean, do you really think Denzel is hot? Because I REALLY DONT.

Quote:
Also, I do believe that you can raise a child's IQ by having him listen to classical music. Children who listen to classical music and/or play musical instruments have accelerated development in the math and science parts of their brains.
I read a study once.

It was about plants being in a dark room with very sensitive electrodes hooked up to them.

Someone walked in, hacked one of the plants to pieces, and looked at the eletrical response from the plants.

The plants literally flipped the fuck out when the scientist hacked the one plant "to death."

Therefore, I believe PLANTS HAVE EMOTIONS.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?
Alice
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Old Mar 16, 2006, 01:31 PM #7 of 35
Originally Posted by Sassafrass
America is America. I chose to not believe it. I mean, maybe its me, but I don't really LIKE beauty? Kinda gives me a HEADACHE?

And, I mean, do you really think Denzel is hot? Because I REALLY DONT.
These were worldwide studies, not just American ones, and yes, Denzel is hot. His level of hotness is illegal in 29 states.

FELIPE NO
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Struttin'


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Old Mar 16, 2006, 01:35 PM #8 of 35
Originally Posted by AliceNWondrland
...and yes, Denzel is hot. His level of hotness is illegal in 29 states.
Do you think you feel that way because his face is symmetrical, or just because.



This dudes face is perfectly symmetrical. IS HE HOT?

How ya doing, buddy?
Turbo
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Old Mar 16, 2006, 01:37 PM #9 of 35
His eyes scare me

Jam it back in, in the dark.


Alice
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Old Mar 16, 2006, 01:42 PM #10 of 35
Wow. Even his zits are symmetrical.

I think the implication is that people who are naturally more symmetrical - as opposed to a computer-generated photo of a geek with bad skin - are usually more fit, athletic and generally are better-looking.

There's nowhere I can't reach.
Elcee
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Old Mar 16, 2006, 01:43 PM Local time: Mar 16, 2006, 10:43 AM #11 of 35
I'm a dorment Psychology Major and so this is all up my alley. I could go on and on about such findings in a multitude of contexts, and the validity within each context, then break those down into levels within each context until I get tired of my own voice. Opinion is this, though. Mathematical Sciences, Physiological Sciences, Psychological Sciences (especially in the realm of Subconscious awareness), then Sociological Sciences (which is tying right in with Cultural Anthropology in this case), while applying explorative retrospect - becomes more of a Political Science. I cringe at the thought of trying to make a point in the field.

The findings are merely findings and how one feels regarding what they have never been 'consciously' aware of, while every fiber of their being has always been, is kind of irrelevant as a whole. Have you ever sat down and had a heart to heart with your mitochondria? How about your medula oblongata? It's kind of like that. I'm probably just jaded.

Regardlessly, this is a good find and an interesting read, Alice. Also see 'Golden Ratio', if you haven't already. It's extremely relative. Then maybe Chaos Theory if you have the time. No, maybe Quantum Mechanics before that.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.
I poked it and it made a sad sound
Struttin'


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Old Mar 16, 2006, 01:44 PM #12 of 35
Originally Posted by AliceNWondrland
Wow. Even his zits are symmetrical.

I think the implication is that people who are naturally more symmetrical - as opposed to a computer-generated photo of a geek with bad skin - are usually more fit, athletic and generally are better-looking.
O! I see! So only the beautiful people who have symmetrical faces naturally are actually beautiful! (Except theres NO SUCH THING, Alice.)

Fuck those geeks and their zits man. That shit isn't even REAL.

Thats perfect symmetry, Alice. Why don't you want to bang him? ;_;

How ya doing, buddy?
Little Brenty Brent Brent
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Old Mar 16, 2006, 01:47 PM Local time: Mar 16, 2006, 11:47 AM #13 of 35
Because his symmetry isn't naturally perfect. I get what she's saying, and though I obviously haven't noticed it myself, I can see how it would make sense.

I was speaking idiomatically.
Alice
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Old Mar 16, 2006, 01:49 PM #14 of 35
Originally Posted by Elcee
Regardlessly, this is a good find and an interesting read, Alice. Also see 'Golden Ratio', if you haven't already. It's extremely relative. Then maybe Chaos Theory if you have the time. No, maybe Quantum Mechanics before that.
In all honesty, I may not be up for reading that stuff what with my pedicure appointment at four. Also, I wouldn't want anything to interfere with Desperate Housewives.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?
I poked it and it made a sad sound
Struttin'


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Old Mar 16, 2006, 01:50 PM #15 of 35
Originally Posted by Brent
Because his symmetry isn't naturally perfect.
Thats right. There is no naturally perfect. Doesn't exist.

Quote:
I get what she's saying, and though I obviously haven't noticed it myself, I can see how it would make sense.
I'm just saying that its the combination of flaws and symmetry that makes a person attractive. Not one or the other.

FELIPE NO
Elcee
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Old Mar 16, 2006, 01:51 PM Local time: Mar 16, 2006, 10:51 AM #16 of 35
Sorry I had to be a dork and do this: Excerpts from 'Beautiful People'.
Quote:
the beautiful people, the beautiful people
it's all relative to the size of your steeple
you can't see the forest for the trees
you can't smell your own shit on your knees


Hey you, what do you see?
something beautiful, something free?


the worms will live in every host
it's hard to pick which one they eat most


the horrible people, the horrible people
it's as anatomic as the size of your steeple
capitalism has made it this way,
old-fashioned fascism will take it away


How ya doing, buddy?
Gechmir
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Old Mar 16, 2006, 01:53 PM Local time: Mar 16, 2006, 01:53 PM #17 of 35
I don't see the validity.

Symmies have sex earlier? I wouldn't blame twelve year old sex and pegnancies on symmetry. I'd blame the child's family and the upbringing. I also fail to see how it can possibly effect personality.

Symmetry is perfection. And nothing is perfect in nature.

Jam it back in, in the dark.
Hey, maybe you should try that thing Chie was talking about.

Little Brenty Brent Brent
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Old Mar 16, 2006, 01:54 PM Local time: Mar 16, 2006, 11:54 AM #18 of 35
Originally Posted by Sassafrass
Thats right. There is no naturally perfect. Doesn't exist.
The article doesn't claim that naturally perfect symmetry exists, either. I'm sure we can agree, though, that some people are more symmetrical naturally than others.

Originally Posted by Sassafrass
I'm just saying that its the combination of flaws and symmetry that makes a person attractive. Not one or the other.
I agree that what makes a person attractive is certainly more than just how identical their two halves are, but what the article is asserting is that there's a correlation between being more symmetrical, and more attractive. Not that there is necessarily a causative relationship, but just that a relationship between the two exists.

There's nowhere I can't reach.
Elcee
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Old Mar 16, 2006, 01:56 PM Local time: Mar 16, 2006, 10:56 AM #19 of 35
Is it a little something called Entropy we might be referring to?

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Minion
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Old Mar 16, 2006, 01:59 PM #20 of 35
What looks better? The vase that's in mint condition or the one with a crack going down the right side of it? Symetry is a very important concept in aesthetics. It's not the only thing that makes something beautiful. A symetrical turd is still a turd, but it is one of the many characteristics that make up total overall beauty.

I actually think beauty is too complex a concept for just one word. Nature, a work of art and a woman are all beautiful but in different ways.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?
Alice
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Old Mar 16, 2006, 01:59 PM #21 of 35
Originally Posted by Gechmir
I don't see the validity.

Symmies have sex earlier? I wouldn't blame twelve year old sex and pegnancies on symmetry. I'd blame the child's family and the upbringing. I also fail to see how it can possibly effect personality.

Symmetry is perfection. And nothing is perfect in nature.
I'm quite sure this article wasn't a stealthy attempt on the part of the morally loose liberals to push their evil agendas onto impressionable 12-year-olds. Relax.

The point is that more attractive (symmetrical) people CAN start having sex earlier since other people...you know...want to have sex with them.

I was speaking idiomatically.
Elcee
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Old Mar 16, 2006, 02:04 PM Local time: Mar 16, 2006, 11:04 AM #22 of 35
Originally Posted by Gechmir
Symmetry is perfection. And nothing is perfect in nature.
1/1.618 holds true.


Why is there agreement on standards of beauty?

Humaneness Recognition > Beauty may be a mechanism for recognizing that someone is human, and the aforementioned qualities may be ones that make a person most easily recognizable as human. When we see someone "soft on the eyes", we can relax a little, because the humaneness of the image is so clear.

Geometric Beauty > Standards of beauty may be related to natural mathematical proportions which have captivated humans across cultures since the beginning of time, such as the golden ratio (approximately 1.618:1). Some beautiful faces do seem to exhibit such geometric proportions.

Double Post:
Researchers took photographs of Japanese and Caucasian men and women. Participants in Japan and Great Britain were then asked to rate the physical attractiveness of these photographs. They agreed. The attractive faces had certain features in common. For instance, attractive females had higher cheekbones, a thinner jaw, and larger eyes relative to the size of the face.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Last edited by Elcee; Mar 16, 2006 at 02:31 PM. Reason: Automerged double post.
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Struttin'


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Old Mar 16, 2006, 02:08 PM #23 of 35
Originally Posted by Minion
What looks better? The vase that's in mint condition or the one with a crack going down the right side of it?
Depends on who you are.

I prefer the one with the crack, since it's more personable.

Quote:
Symetry is a very important concept in aesthetics. It's not the only thing that makes something beautiful. A symetrical turd is still a turd, but it is one of the many characteristics that make up total overall beauty.
Again, it depends. Nothing is "symmetrical," in the true sense of the word. Nothing NATURAL, anyways. Its UNIQUE to be symmetrical, and maybe THATS why we admire it. Just like we admire anything rare.

But I wouldn't say its what we all WANT.

Why do people always aim to break the laws of nature. Its horrible. ;_;

Quote:
I actually think beauty is too complex a concept for just one word. Nature, a work of art and a woman are all beautiful but in different ways.
AGREE.

FELIPE NO
Elcee
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Old Mar 16, 2006, 02:14 PM Local time: Mar 16, 2006, 11:14 AM #24 of 35
I think I just realized that the original artical posted by Alice wasn't misinforming, just incomplete. Whatever student wrote that really half-assed it. There is symmetry in the asymmetrical ratio of aesthetic beauty. They just kinda left that whole, entire, important part out.

Double Post:
Originally Posted by Yamamanama
Well, that could be part of a groupthink mentality rather than an indication of a universal standard of beauty. Now, I might accept this if they tested more isolated people like in the Kalahari or Siberia.
I'm sure they do, within the contexts of their own, relative society and I mean, culture and researches. We simply don't associate our studies on this menial a subject matter.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Last edited by Elcee; Mar 16, 2006 at 02:16 PM. Reason: Automerged double post.
Rydia
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Old Mar 16, 2006, 09:11 PM Local time: Mar 16, 2006, 06:11 PM #25 of 35
I read about this once a long time ago and thought it was interesting. After reading the article, I did notice that most celebrities had symmetrical facial features. In reality however, I don't tend to notice a person's symmetry.

How ya doing, buddy?
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