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If my kids decide to start believing in some imaginary being, or God, or whatever they may come up with. Who am I to stop them? Who am I to deny them something that makes them happy.
I won't go as far to say that they'll start lying, stealing and cheating if they don't get a chance to believe in such stuff. But I do think that at a young age, before kids can discern the difference between what is positive and what is negative to it's fullest extent, they should have as many positive influences (bliss and carefree imagination perhaps? belief in a jolly fat guy who brings gifts?). This goes a long way towards filling their hearts/minds with positive things, and if it's only positive stuff going in, then it can be assumed that positive stuff will come out. Most amazing jew boots |
It is cute, but who cares?
Only in knowing the identity of 'harm', can it be avoided and dealt with. I was speaking idiomatically.
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Last edited by Smelnick; Oct 30, 2007 at 10:47 PM.
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Forgive me for misunderstanding. I didn't realize we were trying to fix the entire freakin' world with this thread. I was under the impression that the topic was about family and raising children. You want a fix? Try getting over yourself. The only real problem with society today is everyone's damnable fixation on themselves, and what makes them and them alone happy. You happy having sex with everyone you can without calling them after? Do it. You happy screwing people out of their money via credit card scams? Do it! Go ahead, no one's stopping you today! You get your jollies by anonymously attacking people from behind on the internet (oh, I'm sorry, I meant "tEh f!@m!ng N00bSxors")? Great! Contribute all the malice you can! I intend to protect my kids from people like that. Way off-topic. *** On another note, thank you RainMan for a far more informative response.
FELIPE NO
Last edited by PretzelCorps; Oct 30, 2007 at 08:16 PM.
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Generally kids are rat bastards up *until* it's Christmas time, because then they can act good and think they deserve the presents they're getting. Of course, it's also vacation time at that point, so all the easier for them.
What, you don't want my bikini-clad body? |
Santa Claus: An all loving, all knowing, fatherly figure who knows exactly when you are behaving good or bad and can reward you with gifts for behaving well or punish you if you have not. This is sounding familiar. And much like God, both are non-existent. But think of the implication of this nonsense. It is as far as I'm concerned the sinister attempt to make religious belief palatable for children. Of course children don't understand religion, so why not create a Sesame Street character, keep the authoritative principles but toss out ressurections and immaculate conceptions and the theological baggage and call the whole thing Christmas. And this has a further implication. How many children live (in North America) in low income families who's parents simply cannot afford the expense of this ridiculous celebration. What are these chidlren to think when their pine tree doesn't have so much as a piece of tinsle dangling off it? So my question is this. Is it ethical to lie to children and train them to believe things which are not true? I would submit, no, it's not. Jam it back in, in the dark. You're staring at me like I just asked you what the fucking square root of something. |
Also, you're an idiot. Feel like screwing people out of money with credit cards? You can't do it, because it's illegal. It's called a law. As for fucking people in a casual fashion... on yeah, the world would be a miserable place if casual sex wasn't repressed by conservative morality. No one would be happy and less prone to jealousy and idiotic concepts of possession of a person. And as for "flaming" you? I demand a certain level of intellect, mate. If you hadn't come barreling in with a poorly supported and wickedly poorly thought out argument, you wouldn't have been tagged. But I get the impression it's about all we'll see out of you. You intend to protect your kids from different views of the world? Thank god I'm not your kid. You should home school them, too. Really limit that perspective thing. Dangerous, that. How ya doing, buddy? John Mayer just asked me, personally, through an assistant, to sing backup on his new CD.
Last edited by No. Hard Pass.; Oct 30, 2007 at 10:55 PM.
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Who said anything about shielding kids from different views? The whole point of Pretzel's original post was just to say that you shouldn't shield them from such things as Santa and God. Don't force it on them I guess, but don't feel like you can't teach them about it either.
How ya doing, buddy? |
I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body? John Mayer just asked me, personally, through an assistant, to sing backup on his new CD. |
Here's how I understood that:
Everyone is fixated on pleasing themselves. They figure 'Hey, I wanna have casual, uncomplicated sex with no strings attached? Yah, I'll do it' and not feel guilty about it. It's not so much the act of sex itself, but the general idea that everyone is out to please themselves and only themselves. That everyone is fixated on doing what is best for them in the long run. I don't know if he's saying "Oh, can't let my kids know about that" or if he's saying "I'll encourage them not to take that path, and explain to them why I don't think they should, but in the end I'll have to accept the fact that they will be free to do as they please. I just hope they respect me in what they do" I was speaking idiomatically. |
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And besides, what the hell have you even contributed to this thread, anyways?
Besides, who's a better role model? Fictional Santa Claus? Or Britney Spears? Oh, and seriously, don't kid yourself that your child is gonna simply know better than to look up to someone like that.
Weak.
If you have something to contribute, do it. Otherwise, stop fucking around, and quit following me. I'm done with this. What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?
Last edited by PretzelCorps; Oct 31, 2007 at 12:50 AM.
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FELIPE NO John Mayer just asked me, personally, through an assistant, to sing backup on his new CD. |
then again, i'm a libertarian. actually i'm an anarchist, but i like libertarianism just as much. and now that this thread has served its purpose, long ago, perhaps we should move on? How ya doing, buddy? |
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Besides, there's too many groups of people out there that get their jollies only by butting into other people's business. ie: Jehovah's Witnesses. Jam it back in, in the dark. |
Also, those kinds of people seem to want others to conform to their ideological system because they truly believe that it is the one and only way to behave. And indeed most of those peoples are getting up in your business because they are concerned for your well being (which is at risk because you don't follow their ideology). They consider that a selfless act, in an attempt to save your soul, or your peanut butter or whatever the hell it is they try and save. Most amazing jew boots |
This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it. John Mayer just asked me, personally, through an assistant, to sing backup on his new CD. |
hope this helps
I was personally brought up to believe in many religions. It made me nothing short of mad. You most definitely need to sit down with them and explain to them exactly what it is that you believe, but at the same time make sure your not coming on to strong. My dads family is Jehovah witness and my mom is catholic. They never sat down with me and both family's made me go to church which i grew to hate. As of today, i hate conformed religions of any sort, but then again i never got the chance to hear other religions referred to as anything good. As for them being outsiders, people arent too focused on religion in schools nowadays and i dont think that they would get much guff. So just sit and explain what you believe and make sure to tell them that they dont have to believe the same and i think you should be fine.
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How ya doing, buddy? |
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What I'm not open to is people coming in and having nothing more to say than "That's stupid" or "You're stupid". It's not constructive, and frankly, all it does is waste a few bytes on some server out there in the world. What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now? |
He had a lot more to say than just 'You're stupid'. Quite a bit more in fact! Do you have trouble reading? :~)
FELIPE NO
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{{**REPHRASE**}} What I'm not open to are opinions that begin with, and end in, "you're stupid", and put words in my mouth. I didn't say (or at least mean) half the things he said I'd said. Focusing on that, I end up ignoring the rest. :/ A bit better? What, you don't want my bikini-clad body? |
YAY! I'm "that guy." I honestly think "Unknown" works as a custom title for me....
So, where exactly are we in the discussion? Seriously, I'm lost. Jam it back in, in the dark. |
I'll teach my kids to read, and to dissect literature and film to uncover the meanings behind them. I'll teach them about the real magic in the world, instead of the manufactured kind that you lose faith in, like Santa Claus. I won't jeopardize a trusting relationship with my kids for the sake of a viral meme. I like to pretend and imagine, I am curious about the world around me, and it has NOT ONE THING to do with Santa Claus. I focus on REAL things that are magical and fascinating, like computers, galaxies, and the spirals at the centres of sunflowers, and it's through things like this that I will foster a lust for life and growth in my children. I don't need some cop-out like Santa Claus to trick my kids into enjoying their lives or being good people or finding beauty in existence.
I'll tell my kids about the best things I've learned from all the great thinkers in history, from Jesus, Buddha, and Mohammad, to Dawkins, Sagan, and Jung, and above all I'll teach them the importance of empirical thought and meditation. I won't tell them what to believe, but I'll certainly let them know what I believe when they eventually ask. If I get parents complaining to me because my son/daughter told little Jonny the truth about Santa, I'll tell them what my reasoning is, and if they don't like it, they can go eat wang. Most amazing jew boots "It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. -Carl Sagan
Last edited by Phoenix X; Nov 6, 2007 at 10:36 AM.
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I almost took all that other stuff seriously until i read that, and learned that you have no idea what you're talking about. Yeah, Santa Clause is the great undoing - he is the epitome of truth and lie (Santa is actually an anagram of Satan, did you know that?) - and if you dare teach your kids to believe in him, it will cause irreparable damage. Phoenix, your kids are going to be A: brats or B: miserable. And that's not me, that's an actual prediction of Nostradamus. This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it. |
whinehurst, sarcastically paraphrasing a tiny fraction of my post doesn't add a damn thing to this thread. Please state a fucking point that you can at least try to back up. Give me some reasoning behind this idea that kids should be unquestioningly obedient. What possible problem could arise where my kids should obey me without being given a reasonable explanation why? Why should I set up a model for life for my kids that I don't want them to emulate later in life?
My kids won't need to obey me once they understand language well enough. You get pets to obey you, because they're stupid and don't understand things sometimes, like the danger of getting hit by a car if they wander onto the road. Kids can understand explanations like Road=Car=Possible Death. My kids are gonna have to empirically discern that they should consider my advice with the knowledge that I'm more experienced, and that I wouldn't lie about what I've seen, where I've been, what I've done, or what I've learned to be true. They'll do that on their own because I'll teach them empirical thought and I'll be consistent and truthful. They will respect themselves AND me because I will have set the model for them. Kids learn fast from the example scenarios you present in early childhood. I would rather have kids that enjoy talking to me and trust me enough to come to me with any problems they might need help with. Teaching kids to obey you means teaching them to be motivated by their fear of you, and I would be a prick if I taught my kids that fear should ever be a motivation. I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body? "It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. -Carl Sagan
Last edited by Phoenix X; Nov 7, 2007 at 05:33 AM.
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