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[360] Halo Reach: Ghosts of GFF
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Paco
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Old Apr 30, 2010, 07:13 PM Local time: Apr 30, 2010, 05:13 PM #101 of 1108
Also, if you have ODST there's access to the Beta right from the main menu. I downloaded last night but I crashed out after a SSFIV session and never got around to playing it. I'll be on tonight if you guys are down to bust some caps later.

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Old Apr 30, 2010, 09:08 PM #102 of 1108
No, the Beta download on ODST right now is a VIDEO, not the actual Beta itself. I've talked to several people who were fooled by it too, because it has you download it, but it's just a video which is pretty misleading (I haven't looked at it myself).

I've played it a fair bit yesterday and today, super tired right now so I'll post more detailed impressions and make updates to the OP tomorrow. Overall I think it's kind of a mixed bag, but our options are so limited right now you can't really make any overall judgments yet. Still mainly bummed that so many people are on right now and you can't have more than 4 on the same team, and the highest anything will go in the Beta is 6 (for Invasion). As someone who spends 90% of his time playing Big Team games with people, I will get no feel for how it plays out in the Beta, so even in 3 weeks I still will only have a loose idea of how it will go for me in September.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?
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Old May 1, 2010, 02:59 AM Local time: May 1, 2010, 08:59 AM #103 of 1108
The video on ODST isn't that misleading, it says VIDEO on it in massive letters and the description tells you it's some bird talking about the beta. I downloaded it to have a look and it's basically shit, especially comparde to all the stuff on Waypoint at the moment.

Odd that the maximum number of players is so limited. In my opinion, Halo's bigger maps have always seemed too big for the max team size you're allowed. With no flagpoint system like you get in Battlefield keeping peoeple choked at certain points, there's more of a tendancy to spread out and you can go for ages never seeing more than two other players at once. I had hoped that Bungie would manage at least 16 a side for this game, seeing as how they're clearly going to have massive servers for it anyway and the Battlefield games can manage that many with Frontlines going up to 25 a side, although admittedly you can only talk to people in your four man squad or who you're sharing a vehicle with in that, it's the VOIP that use up the majority of bandwidth apparently. I'd be happy to play Halo in total silence if they could shoehorn 25 people a side into matches.

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Old May 1, 2010, 04:15 AM Local time: May 1, 2010, 03:15 AM #104 of 1108
16...a side? Dedicated servers?

Are you in the wrong thread Shin?

I mean it's not exactly a surprise

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Old May 1, 2010, 04:33 AM Local time: May 1, 2010, 10:33 AM #105 of 1108
Well why can't they manage 16 a side? It's not like there's that much more going on in a Halo match than in a game of Battlefield and given that the whole theme of Reach is bigger, epic battles rather than just one dude against whole armies, it would make sense to have bigger MP games, no? I've just personally never seen the point of having maps as big as Containment was or even Blood Gulch when there are so few people running around in them. When one fully loaded 'Hog represents half your team, the game just feels really empty.

I guess with the new game style choosing thingy I'll just be able to avoid the bigger maps from now on but I just don't see why they can't manage more than 16 players in total.

Am I wrong in thinking that there will be dedicated servers running all the Reach traffic then? It's pretty much guaranteed to be the most played game on Live so I would have thought someone somewhere would set something up, rather than running over the general Live ones.

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Old May 1, 2010, 05:02 AM Local time: May 1, 2010, 04:02 AM #106 of 1108
Are you not discerning the difference between matchmaking and actual game hosting?

Yeah, EA runs deds for Battlefield (and THQ for Frontlines) but Halo is P2P like almost every other game on the service.

Maybe because it's late but I can't quite tell if you're asking "why not Battlefield: Reach?" or what, here. This too, is something they've gone over.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

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Old May 1, 2010, 06:37 AM Local time: May 1, 2010, 12:37 PM #107 of 1108
I always assumed Halo had it's own servers, my bad.

I'm not saying why not Battlefield:Reach, although there aren't many ideas left for them to steal from Battlefield except destructible scenery, I'm saying why keep making monstrously huge maps then putting hardly any people in is all. I'm expressing a personal preference to have busier maps. Even in games that are all about long range combat and sniping like Ghost Recon they don't use maps nearly as big as some of Halo's, plus they have ten a side (Or at least GR2 did back on the oldbox).

I've read nothing on the subject save for what Daravon has posted here so if there's a perfectly reasonable explanation why Bungie think big, empty maps is a good idea then that's fine, it's just not something I personally enjoy and I think upping the team size limit would be fun. I remember having a blast playing 32 a side Quake 1 back in the day although you did have to turn off all the textures and in fact most of the character models to get a reasonable ping but that was over dial-up.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.
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Old May 1, 2010, 02:19 PM Local time: May 1, 2010, 01:19 PM #108 of 1108
Invasion mode has the objectives that funnel players to specific points on the map, but lacks the player count you're wanting. That's about the closest solution you'll get. Looks like fun but it won't show up in the beta playlist for several days. I'm sure people will post about it when it goes up, though.

The game design, gunplay, and map flow of Halo would fall apart and become god damn near ridiculous on a player count that high. Not to mention the laughable lag or one of several other issues, so. I can think of a multitude of reasons that that player count would simply be a bad idea as it stands.

Sometimes it's not just so simple as adding more bodies to the mix.

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Old May 1, 2010, 02:27 PM Local time: May 1, 2010, 08:27 PM #109 of 1108
Well the lag wouldn't be an issue if they had their own servers but I digress, each to their own and all that. Some of the most fun I've ever had playing Halo has been 16 people in Midships in Halo 2, I enjoy there being more people packed in together, you obviously don't.

I guess when I heard that the new game was based on a big, epic battle, I expected the game to feature big, epic battles. I shall live in hope that the final game will feature a playlist that's big team games on smaller maps.

I was speaking idiomatically.
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Old May 1, 2010, 02:56 PM Local time: May 1, 2010, 01:56 PM #110 of 1108
When did I say I didn't? BTB is the only real way I play it. And on top of all that I enjoy a battlefield game as much as the next asshole.

Just because a game has guns in it doesn't mean it would work better with infinity players, bro. Not even considering technical issues for a moment, but do you really think that the current style of power weapon pickups, vehicle spawns, gunplay elements, the fundamentals that make Halo Halo would really translate well into a 32 player environment?

You want your apple to be an orange bro. Still fruit, but one is a fair bit different and I suggest you stick to grapefruit instead of you want citrus that bad.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?
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Old May 1, 2010, 03:52 PM Local time: May 1, 2010, 09:52 PM #111 of 1108
I think it would certainly translate ok to larger teams. Like I said, even Quake worked with 64 people in the match if the level was designed right and that was based around power weapon and map domination even more than Halo is. Certainly the game might play a bit different with more people but part of the longevity of Halo is the mix of ways you can play it, it's not just the same slayer games over and over. I love playing Griff Ball, I probably prefer Rocket Race to any other game type and a no shields, pistols only, 16 man King of the Hill match on a tiny map is great fun. A bit of variety in weapon placement would allow the game to still play like it does with smaller teams (Double the power weapons for example) and building maps designed for everyone tooling about in Warthogs would facilitate that as a gametype. Just because it doesn't play like "classic" Halo, doesn't mean it wouldn't be fun.

I just think that snatching a flag on Blood Gulch and making a run for it in a Warthog would be more fun if once you'd escaped the base defenders, there were still enough people around to make the rest of the drive back more tense, rather than the current, frequently unopposed jaunts across a needlessly empty and large stretch of countryside.

It is just my opinion but I think that Halo multiplayer works really well on tighter maps but is a bit dull on the bigger ones as it stands.

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Old May 1, 2010, 10:03 PM #112 of 1108
I did a long-ass impressions post on GAF that I won't copy/paste here because it's going to be long and boring as fuck if you haven't already been playing the Beta (it's mostly impressions on the really minor ins/outs), but if you're interested it's here.

Aside from that, I'll really try to get the OP updated tomorrow, and maybe get a good general impressions/gameplay post up in here for the people who didn't get in early and will be playing for the first time on Monday. Short version: After a long-ass up and down feeling curve, I'm really digging the game, but it is totally it's own thing, it barely feels like Halo at all. I think it started clicking more when I stopped expecting it to play a certain way.

OP needs more Murder Basement fo 'sho.

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Old May 1, 2010, 10:04 PM #113 of 1108
I get the impression, though, that Invasion is going to work like Battlefield BC2's Rush mode, where while it's technically one gigantic map it plays more like 3 to 5 small maps that overlap physically.

And I mean, while it is easy to get back to your base once you get out of theirs, it's pretty freaking hard to get out of the enemy base against a competent team. If there's enough people to cover the entire ap, in theory, then there's also enouugh people to camp the everloving christ out of the flag so that no one's ever getting in to the base to begin with.

Basically I think the point I'm trying to get to is that you overestimate the strategic ability of Halo players

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Old May 2, 2010, 12:35 PM Local time: May 2, 2010, 10:35 AM #114 of 1108
No, the Beta download on ODST right now is a VIDEO, not the actual Beta itself. I've talked to several people who were fooled by it too, because it has you download it, but it's just a video which is pretty misleading (I haven't looked at it myself).
Oh, what the fuck? I didn't even notice that. I thought it was a downloadable demo of the game!

So... then... why are they advertising Halo 3 ODST as being "your key to the Halo Reach BETA"?

There's nowhere I can't reach.
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Old May 2, 2010, 12:38 PM #115 of 1108
Because it is. On Monday, as has been advertised for months. Everyone play now is doing so through early access codes.

Also Shimms posted this on the SC, I'm way too amused by this for some reason:

YouTube Video


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Old May 2, 2010, 06:48 PM Local time: May 3, 2010, 12:48 AM #116 of 1108
What's this thread about?

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?
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Old May 2, 2010, 06:49 PM Local time: May 2, 2010, 05:49 PM #117 of 1108
Sup shake.

I feel terrible for you now, having to put up with our special brand of horrible.

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Old May 2, 2010, 06:52 PM #118 of 1108
Hi Shake! How goes it?

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?
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Old May 2, 2010, 06:53 PM #119 of 1108
What's this thread about?
Kill death ratios.

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Old May 2, 2010, 08:05 PM 1 #120 of 1108
You also forgot trolling Halo because all games should be more like Battlefield.

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Old May 2, 2010, 08:07 PM #121 of 1108
I uploaded FISTS OF FURY to my File Share, you seriously need to watch that shit. I also uploaded the entire match too. It's nothing but Shake and I running around and punching shit for 7 minutes, I don't know how I survived through all the bullshit but it's damn funny.

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Old May 2, 2010, 08:36 PM Local time: May 3, 2010, 02:36 AM #122 of 1108
0 weapon kills.

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Old May 2, 2010, 08:43 PM #123 of 1108
WELCOME TO BEATDOWN CITY

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Old May 2, 2010, 10:11 PM #124 of 1108
My detailed impressions overall on the Beta. For the finer points see the below, but the short version is that I really like the game, but I was very up an down on it for about 50 or so games until it finally "clicked" for me. The most important thing to realize and that you'll need to accept is that this game feels very little like Halo has in the past. If you're able to accept that and deal with the changes and how you need to change how you play the game, you will probably have a great time. It seems that the most vocal haters are people who only or primarily only play Halo, and people who DON'T do anything but play Halo are really liking it. I've seen several people compare it to a hybrid of Halo and Shadowrun.


Player Investment

-Highest rank and cost of armor pieces seems a tad low for the Beta; at 4 days of play (and only one of those being a full day) I'm about to hit one grade shy of the highest rank available in the Beta. Armor pieces not quite as much, by the time I max rank I'll probably have the complete armor set I want, but I won't have enough to buy absolutely every piece of armor either. You do have a ton of options for customizing your guy as far as emblems/colors and whanot go however.
-Commendations are slightly broke for the Beta. The Commendations level up basically based on the medals you get; right now there's Assist, Headshot, Multi-kill, Sitcky Grenades, Killing Sprees and "Technician." In the final game there will be tons, but right now for the Beta essentially any of the medals you get that aren't the first five are all lumped under Technician. They've clarified in the final game there are tons though; a specific example was given where say in the Campaign if you headshot a Grunt with a Needle Rifle, that will go towards your Commendations for Infantry Kill, Headshot, and another one I can't remember (Covenant weapon kill maybe?). Also there's no way in the game to see your Commendation "rank", it's only visible on bnet.


Weapons
-The Focus Rifle (aka Bacon Wave) feels more or less fine, it's maybe a tad overpowered and a clip lasts too long.
-The Plasma Launcher is rape-time, and probably the only weapon that needs a serious nerfing for the final game. It locks on and gets Plasma Grenades out way too quickly, and it currently comes with a stupid amount of ammo (I think 22).
-No one ever seems to use the Plasma Repeater or Plasma Pistol.
-The Needle Rifle is pretty neat and feels pretty balanced, basically a Covenant DMR.
-I think the Needler is fine, but some people think it's still too weak. It now requires essentially two bursts to kill, one will drop their shields, then the 2nd burst will actually kill. Most people find this to be too weak, but it seems to work fine for me, I think because the homing seems a bit better. So even with it usually taking more Needles to kill, I'm still doing pretty well with it.
-The Gravity Hammer operates the same, but when combined with someone who is Evading (Covy Slayer) it is super broken, since they can hammer you immediately out of the roll. The weapon itself is pretty much identical to Halo 3 though.
-The Plasma Sword has been nerfed a bit; the weapon itself is the same, but if someone is lunging/swinging at you, you can actually melee to "block" the sword. As far as I've been able to tell this does still take down your shields so you can only do it once (assuming you have shields), but it does change the dynamic. I don't know that I've been able to successfully get out of these situations, but a few times I've been able to do the melee block which drops both of our shields, then get a mutual beatdown.
-Grenade Launcher is real squirrely at the moment; when you fire a round, it bounces hard and fast, and doesn't seem to detonate on the first impact/bounce, which makes it near-impossible to use close range. Haven't had a whole lot of time with it yet, but it seems useful for bouncing grenades around corners, etc. I think it's fine as-is, but it seems to definitely be a finesse/situational weapon.
-Both how the DMR and the Magnum work are hotly contested right now. Both seem to require a lot more skill then I think people were expecting or are used to from the BR, so there's a lot of bitching. Both weapons (along with the Sniper Rifle) have the expanding reticule/bloom with shots fire in quick succession. After about 50 or 60 games I more or less got the hang of them, depending on distance you really need to adjust your rate of fire. They both take a lot more skill then the BR, and getting a kill with it can be extremely satisfying. There is a call from a fair number of people calling for the DMR to be a 4-shot kill (it's currently a 5-shot), and for the reticule bloom to be reduced on the Magnum. I personally think both are fine, but this along with the shield melee debate are definetely the two big things people are upset about and split on.
-The Spartan Laser isn't in any of the current playlists. The Rocket Launcher is on one, and it seems fine and operates basically the same. With no vehicles yet still not able to confirm that vehicle lock-on is back.
-I'm not a big fan of the Shotgun in this one. Rate of fire seems slow, and it seems to take too long to fire a shot. It's range is much more focused now, and while I personally have had little success trying to kill people with it at any range, I seem to be in the minority there.
-I've only picked up the Sniper Rifle a few times, but aside from it also having the expanding reticule, seems to be the same. With the reticule change it definetely forces you to pick your shots better.
-The Assault Rifle does seem improved over Halo 3, but honestly once you get decent with the Magnum there still seems to be little reason to use it. I guess if you just can't get with the Magnum or it's what you have out it'll get the job done though.


Armor Abilities
-Armor Lock is more or less fine, but it's hard to make any big calls on this one without having the chance to use it in an arena that has vehicles, where it seems like it will have a bigger impact. It currently seems to mainly be useful for buying time for a teammate to come save you; the EMP blast itself isn't a huge damage dealer, and people will generally just back off and spam you with grenades anticipating you coming out of it. There does seem to be a bit of abuse with it as if you do a short burst you can do it very quickly, so there are complaints of people using it when they're about to get into a melee confrontation to quickly absorb the first hit, then come out of it with the upper hand.
-The Jetpack is pretty awesome, and seems perfectly fine right now in terms of lift, time, and recharge time. Using it for actual aerial combat seems to be shaky at best, it seems to be best used for shortcuts and to get to higher ground or around obstacles more quickly.
-Sprint is awesome, and probably my favorite. Being able to barrel around a corner with a shotgun or sword into a guy not expecting you that quickly is awesome. There is definitely a second or so delay between when you stop moving and when you can pull out your weapon, so doing it too much or right on top of people will get you killed. When used right though, you can bumrush dudes to get the first melee in, or alternatively get behind a guy for a quick assassination.
-Camo doesn't seem nearly as useful as you'd think. When active it lasts a long -ass time, but it jams your radar as well as those around you. Also when the radar is getting jammed people just immediately are on the lookout for you, and since you're not 100% invisible (just like past games) I find myself getting taken apart quickly. Seems to be most useful when there are people on multiple levels, and I will jam to create a distraction for a teammate on a different level. Also seems like it might be more useful in that regard in large player-count games.
-Evade is super awesome. You roll extremely far and get two rolls per charge, and it recharges fairly quickly. It makes Covy Slayer very interesting, as people can very easily get out of the way of things, so you're force to anticipate or close the gap, etc.


General Gameplay
-THE BIG DEBATE: MELEE AND SHIELDS by far the biggest and most effecting change. This one seems to have drastically split people, seems like about third HATE how it works, a third like it, and a third don't really care. I personally like it just fine, but not enough to defend it to the grave. As mentioned in the OP, if you have even 1% shields left, if you take a hit/blow it will only "pop" your shields, and not do any damage to your health (this obviously excludes "power" weapons). What no one seems to have really realized pre-beta is that this drastically changes the game; Halo MP in general has relied heavily on melee kills, the typical pump half a AR clip into a dude and finish him with the melee. In Reach, that is completely gone, and no longer works.

The people who hate the change present this scenario: You get the drop on a guy at mid-range, and get say half a AR clip into him, leaving his shields at say 25%. He rushes you (with Sprint or otherwise) and while you are trying to keep distance/fire he melees you once; your shields are now gone, and his are still there "despite" the fact you got the drop on them and have been shooting them. Now in this scenario since you're basically already fucked, you melee back but he's already gotten his first melee off, so you drop his shields but then he's immediatley meleeing you back, and now you're dead. So obviously this sucks!

The people who are fine with or like the change present this scenario: It's not Halo 3; you need to change how you play. In the above scenario, if you're unable to keep the distance when he rushes you, you should be either using your AA to counter/escape, or what I do personally is instead of backing off like a bitch you counter-rush them and YOU get the first melee in. 9 times out of 10 I've been able to surprise someone who's obviously trying to get the first melee in by advancing on them first and getting the first hit in, then turning the tables and killing them. Obviously there's other ways such as Jetpacking away, Armor Lock, Sprinting towards/away from them, etc. And in the above scenario if you don't have the means to do either of these things, you probably shouldn't have engaged them at that point. Everything in this game has a counter, and you're not ALWAYS going to have the ultimate combination of AA and weapons to counter the enemy you're fighting.
-I don't miss dual wielding for a second.
-The assassinations are great for humiliation kills, but I cannot get them with any consistency for the life of me. Not sure if I'm doing it wrong, or it timing range is just picky at the moment. Possibly the best moment I've had in this game was when we had someone on the other team sniping us at the highest point in the map; I managed to Jetpack up behind him, and assassinate him from above by dropping on him like a rock and slitting his throat.


Maps
-Powerhouse is perfectly fine. I like it but don't love it or anything. I don't mind playing it, and it's miles better than Swordbase.
-Swordbase quite frankly sucks, and for once I'm glad that it seems the greater majority of people seem to agree with me. On 1-flag CTF (which is a VERY common gametype in Grab Bag right now) it is fundamentally broken. On other gametypes it's okay. You do really more or less HAVE to use a Jetpack most of the time though, as you can't choose your spawns and it's pretty shitty getting around.


Gametypes

-1 Flag CTF is exactly what you'd expect. It's broken on Swordbase, but that's not really it's fault. The only big problem with it at the moment is that Sudden Death is shit, it's super fast and ends badly.
-Oddball and Team Oddball are also fine, but both maps have spots that are too good for people to camp with the Oddball. Oddball melee kills are back to 1-hits, if I recall correctly (I could be wrong) they weren't in Halo 3.
-Team SWAT is super awesome now. First off no Elites, so everyone is on a level playing field. Secondly, with the DMR it feels like there's actually more skill involved, it's not just instead death once someone spots you with a BR.
-3 Plots (a return to Halo 2 type-territories) is great, although at the moment it goes super super fast, which according to Urk is to get more matchmaking churn in for Beta purposes.
-Covy Team Slayer is pretty great; the Elites are fun to play as with their increased speed and awesome roll. Only problem at the moment is that there are only two Loadouts for this mode, and no one ever uses the Plasma Repeater, so everyone's basically using the same Loadout of Needle Rifle/Plasma Pistol. Could use some more variety for sure to mix it up.
-Stockpile (the 4 neutral flag mode) is pretty awesome.
-Juggernaut I've only played I think twice, and both times got owned so hard I have no real impression on this, although I will say the Juggernaut is WAAAAY more of a beast then he is in Halo 3.
-Headhunter is inherently broken right now. It seems like it could be fantastic as a Team game (which it will not be in the Beta), but right now being only in FFA, it becomes a game of people camping the turn-in territories and being more opportunistic then I think they intended. I've only had one game of this NOT end with a Skullmanjaro.

Misc.
-The whole Active Roster thing where you can see what everyone on your list is doing on any of the main menus and queue to join them and whatnot is fantastic. We've had a few weird things happen (like failing to join), but for the most part it's awesome.
-The Voting system pre-match is pretty great.
-So far the game seems to be doing a mixed job of keeping certain players/parties together post-game, but it's hard to tell if it's just failing to some extent, or if people are just backing out.
-The Post Game Carnage screen needs some work. I don't like the fact I have to hit A 3 or 4 times to go through each of the individual categories I earned credits in that match to get to the Post Game Carnage screen, and then I can't even see how many cR I earned there. Plus Matchmaking is super super fast right now which is great, but half of the time people don't vote on maps because they're still looking at the last game's stats or looking at the Armory.
-As mentioned Matchmaking is super super fast, maps load fast (although that may or may not be a result of everyone working off HDD's at the moment), and except for one game where I got one or two spikes, has been 100% lag free. The people we play with from other countries are saying it's hugely improved for them over Halo 3 and totally lag free, so hopefully it stays this way as that was not the
case in Halo 3/ODST at all.
-You can finally save a game immediately while still in post-game lobbies without having to back out and go to theater (like you could in the Halo 3 beta, but not the final game).
-All of the stats on Bungie.net are freaking awesome, seeing your kills versus how many times you died by individual weapons and the bar graphs showing your recent games K/D and W/L are awesome.

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Old May 3, 2010, 12:28 AM Local time: May 2, 2010, 11:28 PM #125 of 1108
I typically agree with all of this, but only want a few changes to how voting works. I would like to see it changed so that if you don't vote, it doesn't default to whatever the first choice is. Only count it if someone actively makes the call to vote, don't assume everyone and their dog wants 1 Flag.

I was speaking idiomatically.
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fucking armor lock, halo, halo reach

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Exploding Garrmondo Weiner Interactive Swiss Army Penis > Garrmondo Entertainment > Video Gaming > [360] Halo Reach: Ghosts of GFF

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