An intolerant people named Québec

And now from an anglo

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I'm a strong supporter to keep our country whole - but if they want to have another refferendum, and decide that they want to be own thier own, then they can leave - and leave all of the federal support with it.

Canada is a great place to live, and be a part of - I don't think that the seperatists realize how good they've got it.

First off, referendums are held for a mandate to negotiate seperation, not seperate entirely.

Secondly, the Clatiry Act will prevent Quebec from seperating anytime soon.

Thirdly, the Government of Canada has an obligation to keep watch on Quebec to protect minorities. Wuebec has an awful record of mistreating Anglos and Allos, misspending money that could have been useful on the "language police", and so on.

Anglos have been in Quebec for three centuries, and we're not leaving. One day, the anglophones of Quebec will once again have their total freedom of expression!

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by loyalist

Anglos have been in Quebec for three centuries, and we're not leaving. One day, the anglophones of Quebec will once again have their total freedom of expression!

We just won't be getting accepted in any Quebec universities other than Concordia and McGill any time soon.

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by Mucknuggle

We just won't be getting accepted in any Quebec universities other than Concordia and McGill any time soon.

Well, at least it's not like McGill and Concordia are bad universities.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by ArrowHead

The thing you have to understand about Québec is that the people here are basically rednecks. The French, anyway.

Montréal is relatively civilized.

Whaaa?

Des 'rednecks'? Bâtard, c'est intolérant et imbécile rare ton opinion? T'as une idée c'est quoi un 'Redneck'?

C'est pas parce que tu croises deux mongoles qui parlent français que tu dois catégoriser le peuple entier.

TRANSLATION: Rednecks? Damn, that is one intolerant and idiotic opinion. Do you have any idea what a Redneck is? It's not because you stumbled upon two assholes who spoke French that you must categorize everyone of us!

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by SketchTheArtist

Stuff en francais.

I'm sorry, but this is an English-language board, so please keep all forum discussion in English.

Feel free to exchange PMs in French if you like, though.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Sure, I'll remember that next time, but why delete it?

FELIPE NO

Sorry, habit. I guess it can live, though.

If you'd be so kind as to edit it into English, please?

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Lord Styphon

If you'd be so kind as to edit it into English, please?

He's calling me a bastard and telling me my opinion is intolerant, stupid and rare. He says I don't know what a redneck is; that I've met a few retards who happen to be francophones so I'm lumping them all together.

He's mostly wrong, but I don't blame him. French Quebec is a very isolated culture.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

I didn't call you a bastard or stupid. You read and see what you want.

@STYPHON: Sure, I was gonna edit when I saw you're post.

EDIT: A long time ago, indians lived here. Frenchies from Europes came and killed the indians and took over the land. Then time passed. Then some people rebelled and said "Fuck You" to the Frenchies and created their culture. Then the English came here and kicked the French Quebecors' asses and they said "Speak English or die!" and some said "Fuck You" and got killed. Then time passed. Then a little law passed and asked English bussinesses to advertise in French then in English, then everyone freaked out. Idiots from Quebec's French community screamed "You speak English I hate you!" and then Idiots from Quebec's English Community replied "Oh yeah? Well we hate you too!!".

So you see, we've got both bloods on our hands, we've got idiots on both sides and we're living on a land that isn't ours.

So, sure, keep saying French people from Quebec are Rednecks. But I won't say Canada is ignorant and intolerant, there's some really nice people there. I'll say YOU'RE ignorant and intollerant.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by SketchTheArtist

I didn't call you a bastard or stupid. You read and see what you want.

Originally Posted by SketchTheArtist

Bâtard, c'est intolérant et imbécile rare ton opinion?

Originally Posted by SketchTheArtist

Then the English came here and kicked the French Quebecors' asses and they said "Speak English or die!" and some said "Fuck You" and got killed.

We didn't say "speak English or die" and we didn't kill you. I'd like to know what the hell you think you're talking about.

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Then time passed. Then a little law passed and asked English bussinesses to advertise in French then in English, then everyone freaked out.

Now that's trivializing it. The Official Language Act (that little law):

• made French the only official language of Quebec
• made it necessary for companies to adopt the French language to communicate with the government
• forced all immigrant children to be educated in french-language schools (even if they come from an English speaking country!)
• forced all business signs to be 2/3 or more French (meaning English and any other language combined must collectively be 1/3 or less!)
• made French the dominant language in court proceedings, meaning that in the case of any ambiguity in the law, the French language translation of the law is to take precedence over the English text.

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Idiots from Quebec's French community screamed "You speak English I hate you!" and then Idiots from Quebec's English Community replied "Oh yeah? Well we hate you too!!"

Oh please.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by ArrowHead

We didn't say "speak English or die" and we didn't kill you. I'd like to know what the hell you think you're talking about.

Now that's trivializing it. The Official Language Act (that little law):

• made French the only official language of Quebec
• made it necessary for companies to adopt the French language to communicate with the government
• forced all immigrant children to be educated in french-language schools (even if they come from an English speaking country!)
• forced all business signs to be 2/3 or more French (meaning English and any other language combined must collectively be 1/3 or less!)
• made French the dominant language in court proceedings, meaning that in the case of any ambiguity in the law, the French language translation of the law is to take precedence over the English text.

Oh please.

Once again...

'Bâtard' is used commonly as a way of saying one is surprised, like 'damn!' or 'shit!'. Learn a culture before dissing it.

Also, after the insurrection of 1837, 800 patriots were arrested and locked in a prison of Montreal for resisting the English governement. Most of them were killed by hanging. Stay in school.

As for that law, I'm not even gonna go there since you're simple-minded and think that everyone should speak English because you're English.

Can't you see we have a whole different culture here in Quebec? If everyone speaks English, then we lose most of that beautiful language we have up here!

Most amazing jew boots

Originally Posted by loyalist

Thirdly, the Government of Canada has an obligation to keep watch on Quebec to protect minorities. Wuebec has an awful record of mistreating Anglos and Allos, misspending money that could have been useful on the "language police", and so on.

They do have an obligation to protect minority rights, but since the Quiet Revolution, the G of C never intervened because Quebec is awash with voters and civil servants.

Political seperation may be the only way to resolve this issue. Judging from the example of the Czech Republic, seperation may actually bring the two sides closer together through economic cooperation/border agreements, etc.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Quote:

EDIT: A long time ago, indians lived here. Frenchies from Europes came and killed the indians and took over the land. Then time passed. Then some people rebelled and said "Fuck You" to the Frenchies and created their culture. Then the English came here and kicked the French Quebecors' asses and they said "Speak English or die!" and some said "Fuck You" and got killed. Then time passed. Then a little law passed and asked English bussinesses to advertise in French then in English, then everyone freaked out. Idiots from Quebec's French community screamed "You speak English I hate you!" and then Idiots from Quebec's English Community replied "Oh yeah? Well we hate you too!!".

Are you insane?
Firstly, Canadien culture came about out of neccesity and not as a rebllion to France.
Secondly,The British gave all sorts of powers to the French-Canadian community through the Quebec Act and allowed French civil law to go on existing. For a conquest, those are some pretty damn generous terms. Throughout it's history as a colony and Canadian province, Quebec was allowed to keep its own French institutions by allowing the Catholic church to continue community operations in French.
Thirdly, Bill 101 didn't "ask" English businesses to advertise in French, it forces English people into French schools, French advertising and business in French. It even had an appeal at the UN! It was an active attempt to destroy Anlgo culture and forced us (or tried to) to speak a lanuage that's not our own. Even the British colonial office never passed such a repressive law.

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Can't you see we have a whole different culture here in Quebec? If everyone speaks English, then we lose most of that beautiful language we have up here!

I have no qualm with people speaking French. It seems that some nationalists ahve a problem with anyone speaking, educating or going about their business with English in Quebec!

Anglos have been in Quebec for centuries, we are part of the province, too. Don't tell us to go home...we already are at home!

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Quote:

It's not because you stumbled upon two assholes who spoke French that you must categorize everyone of us

well... considering that we ahve more sacred cows than India, and that too many I have spoken/read about are awfully closed-minded:juggler: (hence my name)

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forced all immigrant children to be educated in french-language schools (even if they come from an English speaking country!)

Bill 22 clarified this. Unfortunately, there have been abuses, apparently...

As for the advertisement: if protecting a language means only advertising into it, it's not worth much...

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by SketchTheArtist

Once again...

'Bâtard' is used commonly as a way of saying one is surprised, like 'damn!' or 'shit!'. Learn a culture before dissing it.

Also, after the insurrection of 1837, 800 patriots were arrested and locked in a prison of Montreal for resisting the English governement. Most of them were killed by hanging. Stay in school.

And it shouldn't really have gone any other way. We're talking about an armed uprising here. It's serious shit.

Quote:

As for that law, I'm not even gonna go there since you're simple-minded and think that everyone should speak English because you're English.

No, you're not gonna go there because you really can't defend it. I think we should be allowed to speak English because we are English. This is an English country.

Quote:

Can't you see we have a whole different culture here in Quebec? If everyone speaks English, then we lose most of that beautiful language we have up here!

Just because everybody is allowed to speak English does not at all mean that all of Quebec will speak English. It's clear enough from your hardline (dare I say fascist) attitude on language that the French language is not in any danger.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by loyalist

Are you insane?
Firstly, Canadien culture came about out of neccesity and not as a rebllion to France.

That I agree with you Loyalist, his reaction was very defensive and his argument was false at that: it probably was an unargumented knee-jerk defensive reaction. People can get awfully defensive about thier convictions, you know that.

Originally Posted by loyalist

Secondly,The British gave all sorts of powers to the French-Canadian community through the Quebec Act and allowed French civil law to go on existing. For a conquest, those are some pretty damn generous terms. Throughout it's history as a colony and Canadian province, Quebec was allowed to keep its own French institutions by allowing the Catholic church to continue community operations in French.

True, the post-Conquest political stance was awfully generous to the French-speaking populace, but do you know why? It was by sheer number force, simple as that. The French-speaking inhabitants, even after the post-Conquest influx of immigration, outnumbered the English-speaking ones by a significant margin. Forcing the immense majority of a population to change their way of life could have easily led to an uprising, especially if they didn't support the Catholic Church (which in turn supported them) like they did, since faith was very important to the French inhabitants. It was a generous deal, but one rather forced by the circumsyances, it wasn't entirely out of the good will of her Majesty.

Originally Posted by loyalist

Thirdly, Bill 101 didn't "ask" English businesses to advertise in French, it forces English people into French schools, French advertising and business in French. It even had an appeal at the UN! It was an active attempt to destroy Anlgo culture and forced us (or tried to) to speak a lanuage that's not our own. Even the British colonial office never passed such a repressive law.

The current Bill 101 does not forces English people into French schools, but it does force immigrants into French schools until the end of high school though. It did ban advertising in English for its first few years (which I think was wrong), but now enforces that French is predominant in advertising, to avoid situations similar to the 50s Montreal, where even buisness ran by French people only advertised in English.

Bill 101 is not an attempt at destroying a culture, it's an attempt at protecting what is left of another. Similar laws have been used in other countries:

• Lituania adopted a similar law to protect its own language from russian and english;
• Israel adopted in 1998 a law that obliged its radio stations to broadcast at least half their songs in Hebrew;
• heck, even California adopted in 1986 a Bill that made English the only official language of the State, it's even stated in the preamble that there is an obligation to "preserve, protect and reinforce the English language", it also made English the obligatory learning language to immigrants.

Originally Posted by loyalist

I have no qualm with people speaking French. It seems that some nationalists ahve a problem with anyone speaking, educating or going about their business with English in Quebec!

Anglos have been in Quebec for centuries, we are part of the province, too. Don't tell us to go home...we already are at home!

Yup, just like some people seem to abhor Quebec nationalists as a whole! But like you said, it's some people, and not all nationalists by a long shot. And yes, you're as much at home as anyone that lives in Quebec, that's not the issue here.

And yes, I'm a nationalist.

EDITED for typos.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by ArrowHead

Just because everybody is allowed to speak English does not at all mean that all of Quebec will speak English. It's clear enough from your hardline (dare I say fascist) attitude on language that the French language is not in any danger.

I'll bet my life savings that 90% of your opinion came from your parents which was given to them by their parents and so on.
When I was young, I used to get beat up by the English kids down the block where I lived just because I spoke French. Where did they get that hatred? Probably their parents who got it from theirs. You see, a big chain of intolerance.

Also, the thing with French here is that LAW 101 protects it. Imagine this okay? English is the most talked language in the world right next with Chinese, if the law didn't exist, the majority of shops, bussinesses and others would advertise in English only since the majority of the world and the rest of Canada speaks it, so why bother with the French? Then a dozen years later, only a handful of people will be speaking it and we'll just get eaten by the rest of it.

I'm getting a bit tired of all that since you're pretty hard-headed and you don't want to see the other side of the coin. Fine. Hate French. I don't hate English but you seem to think that Quebecers and Separatists will go 'Witch-Hunting' English people when we'll get our country. Poor brain-washed kid.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by ArrowHead

This is an English country.

I always heard this rumour that Canada was bi-lingual. Have I been mislead all these years?

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by PUG1911

I always heard this rumour that Canada was bi-lingual. Have I been mislead all these years?

Yeah, he lives in his own country.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Turbot's right when he says that the generous conditions in the Quebec Act were implemented on the basis of necessity, and not because the British were benign and wanted to give Quebec a fair deal. Canadian history has shown that Quebec gets what it wants because it reacts viciously against causes that are important to the province, with some recent examples being Equalization, Adscam, provincial rights and the health accords. It also helps that the province has an abundance of voters that, in many areas, routinely shift political allegiance at the drop of a dime.

Protecting the French language is a pretty moot goal, though. If the winds of change blow against the necessity of the French language, then just let it run its course if its not palpably harmful. If French is replaced by English, than the Quebecoise will be able to participate in the global economy that much more easily, and their relationship with the ROC will be that much better. Bottom line: Quebeckers must decide whether protecting the French language is really worth the opportunity cost of a considerably higher standard of living. And really, is it really that important to have an identity so nominally distinct from the ROC (I say nominally because the differences are actually quite negligible, but are trumped up whenever some Quebec politician wants to play the nationalist card to get himself elected)?

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by SketchTheArtist

I'll bet my life savings that 90% of your opinion came from your parents which was given to them by their parents and so on.

My parents have nothing against francophones. And my mother is from Nova Scotia by the way.

Quote:

When I was young, I used to get beat up by the English kids down the block where I lived just because I spoke French. Where did they get that hatred? Probably their parents who got it from theirs. You see, a big chain of intolerance.

How old were they?

Quote:

Also, the thing with French here is that LAW 101 protects it. Imagine this okay? English is the most talked language in the world right next with Chinese, if the law didn't exist, the majority of shops, bussinesses and others would advertise in English only since the majority of the world and the rest of Canada speaks it, so why bother with the French?

Because more than 90% of Quebec is francophone.

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Then a dozen years later, only a handful of people will be speaking it and we'll just get eaten by the rest of it.

Not bloody likely. You'll keep your language just fine, out of your own convictions. You don't need the asinine law.

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I'm getting a bit tired of all that since you're pretty hard-headed and you don't want to see the other side of the coin.

I'm hard-headed? That's rich! This coming from the guy who calls Bill 101 a "little law" "ask[ing] businesses to advertise in French then in English" and who doesn't discern between "patriots" and armed rebels. And for your information, Les Patriotes weren't only French. There were many English among them.

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you seem to think that Quebecers and Separatists will go 'Witch-Hunting' English people when we'll get our country.

I never said such a thing.

Quote:

Poor brain-washed kid.

Speak for yourself.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by lordjames

Turbot's right when he says that the generous conditions in the Quebec Act were implemented on the basis of necessity, and not because the British were benign and wanted to give Quebec a fair deal. Canadian history has shown that Quebec gets what it wants because it reacts viciously against causes that are important to the province, with some recent examples being Equalization, Adscam, provincial rights and the health accords. It also helps that the province has an abundance of voters that, in many areas, routinely shift political allegiance at the drop of a dime.

I wouldn't say viciously, but strongly, but I won't go into a semantics debate with you lordjames... And yeah, people here have a tendancy of being political girouettes based on what better suits them, or sometimes even on their feelings. I blame our latin temperament, heh.

Originally Posted by lordjames

Protecting the French language is a pretty moot goal, though. If the winds of change blow against the necessity of the French language, then just let it run its course if its not palpably harmful. If French is replaced by English, than the Quebecoise will be able to participate in the global economy that much more easily, and their relationship with the ROC will be that much better. Bottom line: Quebeckers must decide whether protecting the French language is really worth the opportunity cost of a considerably higher standard of living. And really, is it really that important to have an identity so nominally distinct from the ROC (I say nominally because the differences are actually quite negligible, but are trumped up whenever some Quebec politician wants to play the nationalist card to get himself elected)?

Bill 101's protection is not about protecting a necessary language, it's about protecting a language that is an integral part of Quebec's culture. And that's where we disagree: to me, Quebec's difference is not negligible. And that's how many (and dare I say all) nationalists feel, it's not only a politician's trump card... Quebec and the RoC share a lot of common ideals but differ on some points, akin to Canada as a whole and the US, but on a different scale.

Also, speaking French doesn't forbid us from speaking English (obviously!) and being a part of the global economy (or the continental economy for that matter): as far as I heard, the Chinese and French are pretty good in that, and their population is far from being as bilingual as Quebec's population (about 40% of Quebecers speak both English and French)!

Anyways, getting mighty late, sorry if I'm not very clear.

FELIPE NO

Quote:

Also, the thing with French here is that LAW 101 protects it. Imagine this okay? English is the most talked language in the world right next with Chinese, if the law didn't exist, the majority of shops, bussinesses and others would advertise in English only since the majority of the world and the rest of Canada speaks it, so why bother with the French? Then a dozen years later, only a handful of people will be speaking it and we'll just get eaten by the rest of it.

So you FORCE immigrants into your culture? To be honest, if your culture can't stay alive by positive means (ie, encouraging Quebecosi art, culture and discussion) and you're resorting to outright opression to keep it alive (forcing American, British and other English-speaking immigrants into a school where they are bound to struggle as they learn boht the material and a new lanuage), perhaps it's time for the nationalists to have a long, hard talk with themsleves.

Quote:

True, the post-Conquest political stance was awfully generous to the French-speaking populace, but do you know why? It was by sheer number force, simple as that. The French-speaking inhabitants, even after the post-Conquest influx of immigration, outnumbered the English-speaking ones by a significant margin. Forcing the immense majority of a population to change their way of life could have easily led to an uprising, especially if they didn't support the Catholic Church (which in turn supported them) like they did, since faith was very important to the French inhabitants. It was a generous deal, but one rather forced by the circumsyances, it wasn't entirely out of the good will of her Majesty.

Goodwill or not, it still happend, and that's what important. I never claimed it was done out of goodwill, I merely claimed that it did, in fact, occur.

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'Witch-Hunting' English people when we'll get our country.

Given that it was the Feds who protected us when nationalists came to power, I don't see our situation improving in the...unlikely event of a Republic of Quebec. Nationalists are the kind of people who would kisnap one of their own (an elected official), kill him and mock him in a subsequent communique. Then, two decades later, rig a referendum AND lose. Good luck at meeting Clarity Act standards with that kind of attitude.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

As much as I don't like Sketch, I'm going to have to somewhat agree with him. While I don't particularly like Bill 101 because it FORCES people to use a language that they may otherwise not want to use, the law does make sense. Also, loyalist, get off your soapbox and take your biggotry elsewhere. You obviously HATE francophones, so just move out of the province already.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by loyalist

Good luck at meeting Clarity Act standards with that kind of attitude.

you don't SAY. I never thought I would approve Stéphane Dion:lolsign:

Quote:

While I don't particularly like Bill 101 because it FORCES people to use a language that they may otherwise not want to use, the law does make sense

Bill 22 (the previous language bill) made French the official language of the porvince (while English remained a "national language") and blocked English schools to those who didn't have "sufficient knowledge" of the language (it logically exlcuded born English speakers). Apparently, people abused it...
Also, in the 70s (I read it in a Kenneth Mcdonald book, if i'm not mistaken), Ontario clearly said that it was, first and foremost, an English speaking province. Nobody seemed to have protested.
Finally, both Canadian unity commission (Laurendeau-Dunton and Pépin-Robarts) recommended that French be portected in Quebec while (official language) minorities have guaranteed rights. Thanks to our national asshole (Trudeau), these recommendations have been, er, deformed (?)

And besides, there are Bill 101 ewverywhere (i read it in a newspaper long ago; maybe people from these places can concur)
- In italian swiss cantons, there are restrictions on German
- Mexican companies are stongly encouraged to adopt spanish names
- I believe Germany has restrictions about English, too

However, I must admit that the original bill 101 was far too restrictive and epople are getting overly paranoid about the state of the language. Hell, still over 80% of the people in the province speak the language at home.
Should we separate (I hope not), I fear that bigotry will become even more widespread

There's nowhere I can't reach.