Products of Creation Science

Alright, ladies. I liked it just fine when it was a nice debate but now it's gotten well off into PP material, which I'm sure LordsSword wanted it to be anyway. Enjoy the view.

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Originally Posted by Devoxycontin

Watts: Uh the problem stems from people forcing other's kids to listen in on these so called "classes."

It has already been established that these attempts are and will be unsuccessful in the future. There's no problem unless they're successful, which doesn't seem very likely. So all you're doing is waving a red herring at me.

What are you going to do to make people stop trying pass off their values on others at any rate? Fighting bigotry with more intolerance is a losing a battle.

By continuing these pointless debates you've established one thing; they've won. As long as the debate continues they win. And they're the minority to boot. Now that's something to be enraged about!

Originally Posted by Devoxycontin

it won't change the fact that there are people working to subvert the educational experience in order to pursue their own religious agenda.

What makes you think there isn't a agenda already at work? Was the Soviet Union's fine example of adaption in biological evolution not enough?

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by Watts

What makes you think there isn't a agenda already at work? Was the Soviet Union's fine example of adaption in biological evolution not enough?

I'm sorry, did you just infer that the North American school system is pushing an agenda akin to Soviet Russia?

Yeah, from this point on I'm ignoring you completely. You clearly have no grasp of history, biology, or the real world. Kudos, sir, on managing to be as fucking idiotic as LordSword from a completely different perspective.

FELIPE NO

LOL ignored for being level headed.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Watts

There is no rampaging horde of creationists that can make it stick.

"This house is brand new! It hasn't burned down yet! That means it must be completely immune to fire!"

Jam it back in, in the dark.

You guys know that if this issue comes up, you're supposed to do everything you can to stop it, right? That even if it does get through that it'll be overturned by the courts, right? That arguing until you're blue-faced on the internet isn't how you combat creation science, right?

Right? Right? Right? hey guys

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Bradylama

You guys know that if this issue comes up, you're supposed to do everything you can to stop it, right? That even if it does get through that it'll be overturned by the courts, right? That arguing until you're blue-faced on the internet isn't how you combat creation science, right?

As Lordsword and Watts aren't actually in any position to push creation science (as neither of them are of age to vote) I think I can call this a crisis averted.

Not to say that you don't have a fat lot of nerve complaining about people fighting over the same hot button arguments but

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Bradylama

Right? Right? Right? hey guys

Did you know that you can stem threads from being interesting by not posting in them yourself? That you too can stop the viral infection that is internet posting?



I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by a lurker

As Lordsword and Watts aren't actually in any position to push creation science (as neither of them are of age to vote) I think I can call this a crisis averted.

I'm pretty sure LordSword is, actually.

Just sayin'. ;_;

I was speaking idiomatically.

Being religious is no excuse, don't they teach critical thinking these days?

fucking kids

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by wvlfpvp

LOL ignored for being level headed.

I'm glad that somebody else found this all amusing as much as I did.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by a lurker

Not to say that you don't have a fat lot of nerve complaining about people fighting over the same hot button arguments but

I'm just not sure where Watts is pushing Creation Science.

I dunno what kind of wires got crossed, but basically Watts is saying that there isn't a massive Christian Right boogeyman out there that's forcing their agenda on the country at large.

The fact that we're having a Creationist Science debate gives credence to their ideas, because it makes it seem like it's worth debating. There's nothing to debate. Creation Science isn't science, period. The vast majority of our public school systems think so. The vast majority of Americans think so. And our courts think so.

Creation Science isn't science. That's as far as this needs to go.

Still Watts, what were you inferring about agendas and evolution in schools? Because I don't see any kind of agenda unless it involves not teaching kids properly.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Watts

I'm glad that somebody else found this all amusing as much as I did.

Oh no, cap'n. I assure you. Plenty of us find you right amusing. Especially the bit where you infer scientific study is akin to Soviet Russia skewing knowledge to make a political point.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Bradylama

Still Watts, what were you inferring about agendas and evolution in schools? Because I don't see any kind of agenda unless it involves not teaching kids properly.

Much like philosophy or economics, science has a long history of being co-opted to further social/political agendas. Theories of evolution and natural selection, or rather how it was interpreted spawned social agendas like eugenics (ie: racial discrimination) and political agendas like social Darwinism. (ie: colonialism) Both of which were taught in science classrooms.

It's complacent or lazy to assume that other agendas are not at work in modern day curriculum. Presenting and passing on modern day values onto the next generation.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Watts

It's complacent or lazy to assume that other agendas are not at work in modern day curriculum. Presenting and passing on modern day values onto the next generation.

Its complacent or lazy to make a statement and not present evidence to the current situation. Okay, so there have been times that science has been twisted into an agenda - either make an example involving current situations or shut up.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Watts

It's complacent or lazy to assume that other agendas are not at work in modern day curriculum. Presenting and passing on modern day values onto the next generation.

Well, coming out of the public school system, I'm having a hard time identifying what agenda, if any, is currently at work. We're obviously not pushing for eugenics any more, and Social Darwinism went the way of the dinosaur. If anything the agenda at work is to keep people ignorant of evolution so that interested parties can claim that "it's just a theory" and not instantly be reacted to with scorn. Most everything I learned about evolution I pretty much taught myself. I can't even recall taking anything resembling a biology class in High School, and I went to a school with a high number of college-going graduates.

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Originally Posted by Watts

I'm glad that somebody else found this all amusing as much as I did.

My post------------------->
























































Your head--------------------------------->

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Bradylama

I went to a school with a high number of college-going graduates.

I like the inference that people who believe in theological creation are people who struggle to get their GED.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by Watts

Much like philosophy or economics, science has a long history of being co-opted to further social/political agendas. Theories of evolution and natural selection, or rather how it was interpreted spawned social agendas like eugenics (ie: racial discrimination) and political agendas like social Darwinism. (ie: colonialism) Both of which were taught in science classrooms.

It's complacent or lazy to assume that other agendas are not at work in modern day curriculum. Presenting and passing on modern day values onto the next generation.

Last time I checked I wasn't living in Nazi Germany. Eugenics? Come on now.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by LeHah

I like the inference that people who believe in theological creation are people who struggle to get their GED.

I'm not saying that the kids should be dumb, our school actually had a plan to gear us for college. In many ways it was preparatory. The fact that none of us were really prepared for any field involving biology couldn't have just been a mistake.

Quote:

Last time I checked I wasn't living in Nazi Germany. Eugenics? Come on now.

Eugenics carried a tremendous stigma because of the Holocaust. Before WW2 it was illegal for the retarded to procreate.

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Originally Posted by Devoxycontin

Last I checked the science curriculum didn't have an agenda aside from education and the teaching of the scientific process. Unless there is some secret society trying to get us all in goggles and white lab coats. RR you sick, sick man.

It's really simple if you actually think about it. (or read the topic with any degree of reading comprehension) I was agreeing with everyone else in their views about "creation science". Brady already pointed that out. Yet because I did not meet their standard of persecuting or leaving the creationists alone to pursue their agenda, I was instantly met with animosity. This being no different when it comes to the reception that skepticism regarding current scientific issues like global warming are met with. Despite the pre-existing scientific evidence to the contrary.

I'll spell it out. Since the inception of public education and continuing well into this day.... the overall agenda is;

Uniformity. -and when someone dares challenge that uniformity- Animosity.

It's even easier to tell what's not being taught in public schools. Reading comprehension and critical thought. Though I do not know if that's intentional, or just a byproduct of so many simple minded people.

Originally Posted by Bradylama

Most everything I learned about evolution I pretty much taught myself. I can't even recall taking anything resembling a biology class in High School, and I went to a school with a high number of college-going graduates.

If you would've taken biology when in high school, (it was a requirement for both my middle and high school) when you got to the subject
of natural selection it would've stressed three important values; freedom, competition, and the struggle for survival. The cornerstones of capitalism as far as I'm concerned. Which I have no problem with.

But I'm not a Marxist. Surely they could complain about a bias in the way Natural Selection was portrayed.

Science is not inherently bias or dogmatic. It just depends on how it's portrayed. (bold for emphasis)

Originally Posted by RABicle

Last time I checked I wasn't living in Nazi Germany. Eugenics? Come on now.

It's funny that you mention that. Eugenics was big particularly in the United States and Canada until Nazi Germany took it upon itself to prove it's wrong. Sterilization programs continued past the Holocaust. We just did it to the mentally impaired instead of people who weren't racially pure.

I'm sure there was people who were skeptical about eugenics at the time. That's half the problem, because if you did you would not only just be met with animosity. You probably would've died in a concentration camp in Nazi Germany.

The other problem of course is that the majority of people bought into the eugenics theory (that eventually led to the Holocaust) in the first place. The minority of skeptical people who were smart just kept their mouths shut or were marginalized.

Originally Posted by Bradylama

We're obviously not pushing for eugenics any more,

I'm not so sure about that either. Most of the eugenicists and organizations pushing eugenics were forced into the scientific underground. They changed over into genetics or other areas of biology. This doesn't mean their
underlining ideology has been stamped out. The degree of manipulation at work depends on the positions of influence former eugenicists hold in current
scientific research. Like say, the Human Genome Project.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Watts

The other problem of course is that the majority of people bought into the eugenics theory (that eventually led to the Holocaust) in the first place. The minority of skeptical people who were smart just kept their mouths shut or were marginalized.

Wow, and you use this as comparison with your skepticism with evolutionary theory?

really?

where are you confused? Where do you think the science doesn't add up?

Also I like how you're hopping on the train ride of "I don't agree with forcefully sterilizing people against their will" like this is a badge of honor. welcome to the rest of the world, numbnuts.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by a lurker

Wow, and you use this as comparison with your skepticism with evolutionary theory?

I have no problem with evolutionary theory, outside of the Soviet example I used earlier and the Marxist take on natural selection.

How many times do I have to say I'm not for creationism, "creation science", or intelligent design? Nevermind, I'm just going to stop.

Originally Posted by a lurker

Also I like how you're hopping on the train ride of "I don't agree with forcefully sterilizing people against their will" like this is a badge of honor. welcome to the rest of the world, numbnuts.

Simple minded insults from a simple minded person.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Watts

Simple minded insults from a simple minded person.

Playground retorts from an appropriately minded child.

Keep the change, kid.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

You've missed the point, Lurker. His argument basically boils down to: "You hate me because I'm different, while I hate you because you're all the same."

For someone who was screaming about a lack of critical thought, he's pretty quick to wave his arms around and scream AGENDA with no proof beyond his own petty paranoia. But he's right, you know. We're taught to think in a uniform fashion. Which is why anthropology always agrees with sociology, who always agrees with psychology, who always agrees with religious studies, etc.

It's a pity. Smart enough to read Farenheit 451, not smart enough to apply the metaphor properly. Ah well, maybe the next one, eh Watts?

Oh, and as a P.S.

There is no big vast conspiracy pushing a scientific agenda. And even if there were, it would get overturned anyway. You see why your logic is burying you?

I was speaking idiomatically.