Women and porn

This is somewhat of a two-fold entry as it deals with the same person but two different issues.

The background:

I was flipping channels the other night and came across the E! channel and it was showing a True Hollywood story on Jenna Jameson. For those of you who are not in the know, she is a famous porn star who is now popular in main stream (not so much mainstream movies, but just in celebritydom). It was in the last half hour and I watched the rest of the show. Don't laugh, I don't usually watch that channel...really! But I do like Jenna Jameson as I think she is very down to earth, pretty, yada, yada, yada.

Near the end of the show, somehow the topic came up about her going to heaven and she answered if she thought she would as did some of her friends. The one person that answered the question, and infuriated me to no end, was the Pastor/Preacher/Priest (I'm not sure which he was) who said she was definitely going to hell because of her lifestyle/career.

Judge not, lest ye be judged ~ Can any Christian on here tell me how this man could have sat there with his arrogant attitude and said such a thing?

This is when I get mad at the hypocrisy of Christianity. A Christian is supposed to be a witness in their words, lifestyles and actions, and if someone who was struggling with the acceptance of Christ in their life saw this, they could say, "Hey! If that man who is a leader and a follower of God can judge people, so can I! To hell with what the Bible says I should do!"


The second part is ~ Jenna admitted she likes was she does as a porn star and was never coerced into it. Yet, so many women think that women who are strippers, porn stars, etc. are exploited. Yes, they can be by the unwilling, but there are many who like doing what they do. Why can't these women accept that some women like being hookers, porn stars and so on? Is it beyond their comprehension that a woman can think for herself?

Just some thoughts I had and wanted to know what you all thought.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Well, to answer your first question, Jesus hung with the undesirables and was often criticized for it. The bible plainly states that no one is barred from Heaven who accepts Jesus as their savior. Period. If Heaven was reserved for people who had never sinned, it would be a very empty place.

About the second question, I'm not a big believer in coercion. It irritates me to no end when people use that as an explanation as to why they did something they knew was wrong. People need to take responsibility for their own actions. I don't care if these women are 17 or 37...they know what they're doing. Exploitation, my ass.

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Originally Posted by julia

The one person that answered the question, and infuriated me to no end, was the Pastor/Preacher/Priest (I'm not sure which he was) who said she was definitely going to hell because of her lifestyle/career.

I think it would have been important to know who exactly was that person and what branch of Christianity he represented, but heh.

Anyway, that kind of bullshit is what made so many people turn their back on religion, and Christianism isnt about that. One of the most important figure of Christianity remains the repented prostitute Mary Magdalene.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Hi niki It's nice to see you.

This gentleman, and I use that term loosely, may have been on the show in the first 30 minutes and they might have said his name and what denomination he is from. But alas, they did not show it in the segment I watched. I can say he did not have on a priest's robe and such, so he may not have been a priest.

And you are so right about the prostitute. According to the Bible, and I do ask for correction if I am wrong, it's the sins God doesn't like, not the sinner. But regardless, as I said, a person struggling with his/her faith can definitely be confused when seeing these types of actions from a religious leader.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Well ladies and gentelmen...there is coercion, whether you like it or not, Italy is one of those countries with high level of thirst for the younger girls from Eastern Europe...a high percentage of husbands drive out late hours in search of...some pleasure...moreover there IS a high level of exchange bla bla and group sex...now getting back to the coercion, well a great majority of these younger girls are forced, raped and beaten into prostitution...this is the sad reality and there is no place for finger pointers, am sure very few of the lot can stand and throw the stone...bible docet. cheers

How ya doing, buddy?

Oops, I did forget to address Alice's comment. Yes, I too believe that not everyone goes into the sex business willingly.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

I'm sure there are cases of coercion, but I believe it's rare. If you're defining "coercion" as women/girls feeling that they should enter into prostitution or the pornography industry because there's such a high demand for it, that's not coercion. If you're saying that young women are sometimes kidnapped, held at gunpoint or otherwise threatened into doing it, then yes, I agree that's coercion.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by julia

Hi niki It's nice to see you.

This gentleman, and I use that term loosely, may have been on the show in the first 30 minutes and they might have said his name and what denomination he is from. But alas, they did not show it in the segment I watched. I can say he did not have on a priest's robe and such, so he may not have been a priest.

And you are so right about the prostitute. According to the Bible, and I do ask for correction if I am wrong, it's the sins God doesn't like, not the sinner. But regardless, as I said, a person struggling with his/her faith can definitely be confused when seeing these types of actions from a religious leader.

hi hi Julia nice to see you too ~

And yeah, I've personaly given up on expecting anything from any modern dogmatic religious "organization", and I still consider myself a Catholic Christian. The Catholic church became a joke in it's second millenium and the Protestants, eventhough Luther is someone I respect, did nothing but accelerate the fall of humanity into the abyssal spiritual well it is now.

Reading people like Carl Gustav Jung helps a lot on reconstructing oneself avision of Christianity, and I've heard of a lot of theological thinkers from around the 10th century that I've yet to read. So yeah, it's a long search, but a necessary one as long as I'm concerned, anyway. =p

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

I think that's what we are saying, Alice (your last statement).

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Quote:

This is when I get mad at the hypocrisy of Christianity. A Christian is supposed to be a witness in their words, lifestyles and actions, and if someone who was struggling with the acceptance of Christ in their life saw this, they could say, "Hey! If that man who is a leader and a follower of God can judge people, so can I! To hell with what the Bible says I should do!"

I thought Christians were supposed to model their life after Christ and Christ alone. It doesn't say anywhere in the Bible that one ought to emulate a priest or church leader - in fact, I'm fairly certain it says otherwise - that people are fallible creatures and that one only ought to look up to Christ.

Surely it was wrong of that fellow to judge another person - his job should be the one Jesus assigned to all Christians - "Love god and love your neighbour as yourself."
Of course, prostitution, extra-marital sex and a host of other lewd things a porn star is bound to get tangled up in are all forbidden by the Bible. It would have sufficed for him to quote the necessary parts from the Bible and say that Jesus will judge people according to that.

I am a vehement atheist but I like to keep my enemies close ^__^

There's nowhere I can't reach.

niki, a friend of mine has a website and he pretty much believes as I do. In this one particular entry, the comments are very interesting (scroll to the top and click on Aethist Camp ~ you might want to read the article first). But that's for another thread. :-)~

neus, yes you are right in that one should not emulate a priest or church leader, but it DOES say one should live Christ-like as they are witnesses not only in word, but in action. I wish I could give you some verse examples, but I cannot. I only know that it is there.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

julia, we are supposed to be as Christ-like as we can, not so that we can get into heaven, but because we want to please God. In other words, it's not a requirement to get into heaven.

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Yes, I understand that completely and am fully aware of what it takes to get to heaven. Surely you see, though, that this man had no right to judge her and to say she is going to hell because of her lifestyle.

A quick story. About 4 months ago, a friend and I went to a local bar to see a band that we like. A guy came and asked me to dance and I said yes, though he is not someone I normally would have taken notice to. Regardless, he was very nice, his manners were impressive and just a swell guy. He said he was from Macon (about 30 minutes north of me) and I quizzed him as to why he was at a bar that far from home when Macon has so much more to offer.

He replied that "When you're desparate, you'll go anywhere." I nicely told him that is something he might not want to say to the next gal he dances with...haha. Anyhow, he asked me again several times after that to dance and I politely turned him down. About midnight, he felt the need to tell me that was leaving because he had to get up to go to church the next morning.

With some laughter in my voice, but meaning what I said, I told him that was funny that someone who was making sure he got up to appear at church was hanging out in a place the night before that most in that church would consider a den of iniquity. His reply? "Oh, there are several of us who go to bars around Macon, but we don't discuss it with each other."

How much more hypocritical can that be in living two lifestyles, knowing that one is "wrong" in the eyes of God?

Sorry, that wasn't as quick as I thought. ;_;

I was speaking idiomatically.

The reason why Christians are so uptight about people with loose morals and such stuff is because they're jealous of the life they lead.
You know why?

Because forgiveness is the key.
If a person is repentant of their sins, God will let em get into heaven.

They're jealous beacause a person who's lived a seemingly wicked life can STILL get into heaven if he or she is repentant, while they've been doing nothing but good all their lives.

They feel as if these people are deliberately taking advantage of this 'loophole', so to speak.
It was the basis of the story of Constantine - Gabrielle believed that there were too many people getting into heaven who didnt deserve to be there, and so was trying to resurrect the anti-christ so that only those who were TRULY followers of God and belived in him would be saved and welcomed into heaven.
It was also sort of mentioned in Dogma.

That's my take on it, anyway.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

I'm not quite sure I agree with the being jealous mentality. To me, it's a case of being close-minded and being self-righteous. My take on anyone who is self-righteous ~ they wipe their ass just like I do.

I really, really wish I knew who that dude was that made that comment about Jenna J. It would be interesting to read about him and his outlook on life. Kind of reminds me of Fred Phelps, a supposed Christian who delights in the deaths of gay people, Hurricane Katrina, 9/11, etc, etc.

FELIPE NO

Alright, so. I hate to get involved in this, but I think the psychological implications with Jenna are a little more important than the religious ones. I've never really had too much respect for a girl who fucks for fame and cash.

First of all - who is anyone to judge anyone else when it comes to religion. Religion has become so intensely perverisfied from one sect to another that it doesn't even MATTER anymore.

I'm not going to sit here and argue scripture from the Bible, but I am pretty sure turning tricks for money and allowing the whole world watch something that is supposed to be "sacred" is frowned upon by any church.

Of course, the church doesn't designate who goes to heaven or hell, but they proclaim to be a good guide to getting into heaven.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Tama8-chan, for using a comic book movie and a Kevin Smith movie as a basis for your agrument, I salute you.

I think it sums up how serious relegion should be, because for something with no set answer, people get really uptight about their opinions, and then it leads to some dude saying Jenna Jameson is goin to Hell; which she definately shouldn't, because think of all the people who's lives she's enriched.

Pr0n. It keeps me from dry-humpping the couch.

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I certainly won't disagree with you, Sass, that her profession is looked down on any church. Hell, even by non-religious people. Doesn't matter, apparently there is a lucrative career in porn. If the people aren't buying it, she sure wouldn't be making the money she does, no?

The church DOES designate who is going to heaven and hell. According to Southern Baptists and the Bible they use, if you aren't saved, you are going to Hell. Simple as that. Oh, also, if your name is in God's Book of Life, you are going to Heaven. Which means he knows you will eventually be saved.

How other denominations account for who is going to heaven and hell, I can't accurately answer that. Seeing as how Catholics believe in Purgatory, I'm not sure if that is a step up to Heaven or just a holding place to decide where you will eventually go.


Edit: whinehurst ~ loved the last comment!

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Something I always wondered about porn stars is: what do they tell their children? They're bound to find out at some point. And even if their parents tell them it's a perfectly legitimate job, how do they deal with the fact that their friends are fantasizing about having sex with their mother?

I dunno, a lot of times it looks like doing porn is like getting a tattoo; it seemed like a good idea at the time.

How ya doing, buddy?

Dhsu, good question and one that was brought up in the interview. She and her husband both said they would definitely tell their children what she did for a living. Though she did say when she ever has children, she will leave the business to raise their children.

And you're going to tell me that teenage males don't fantasize about their friend's hot mom, whether she is a porn star or not? ;-)

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by julia

I certainly won't disagree with you, Sass, that her profession is looked down on any church. Hell, even by non-religious people. Doesn't matter, apparently there is a lucrative career in porn. If the people aren't buying it, she sure wouldn't be making the money she does, no?

Because people are willing to buy it makes it alright? Thats certainly a capitalist point of view, Julia! ^_^

I am an atheist and *I* frown upon the behavior. I think it's immoral, I think it's greedy, and I think it indicates psychological problems. Maybe theres a common thread between my thinking and the church's. Maybe we all find it fundamentally wrong to do. But I am sure it can be argued either way.

Quote:

The church DOES designate who is going to heaven and hell. According to Southern Baptists and the Bible they use if you aren't saved, you are going to Hell. Simple as that.

And I am sure you can see where you can understand that not all churches OR religions think this way. I think that any church who decides something that GOD should decide is a crock to begin with. So. (And yea, I think the Southern Baptists have been in the sun too long. They aren't the end-all on religious authority.)

Quote:

Oh, also, if your name is in God's Book of Life, you are going to Heaven. Which means he knows you will eventually be saved.

Yea, thats ONE way to twist things. I grew up on the Catholic version - they don't have a Book of Life. (At least not that *I* ever learned about, and I did some heavy catechism back in my day) I guess that means that some religions make shit up - be it the Catholics or the Baptists, the Jews or the Muslims - you need to take it all with a grain of salt.

Quote:

How other denominations account for who is going to heaven and hell, I can't accurately answer that. Seeing as how Catholics believe in Purgatory, I'm not sure if that is a step up to Heaven or just a holding place to decide where you will eventually go.

Yea, they're all a bunch of crazy dudes hopped up on wine and the body of Christ. You should ignore what they say. ^_^

What I am trying to say is that personally, I don't try and live by what the church tells me to do. They're not my moral guide. Now, I can't say that EVERYONE should do that, but really. Let's be real - some churches would say "Yea, Jameson is cool so long as she accepts Christ into her life" and others will be all "DUDE, SHES GOING TO BURN."

It's all a bunch of arbitrary silliness.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by julia

Though she did say when she ever has children, she will leave the business to raise their children.

I'd hope so. Otherwise, "take your child to work" day would be awkwaaaaarrrrd

There are some zealot-like folks who try to and often become mouthpieces of religion. Folks live too much in constant fear of the Almighty and what-have-you. Bottom line is the church ain't perfect, irregardless of what they might think of themselves. But due to their position in society, they can rant and rave and brand people as hell-bound and not many folks will step up and tell them to back down. Kind of like the annoying, 80-year-old, crazy relative that nobody knows but he always comes to family reunions and thanksgiving. The one that wears diapers and flings dinner rolls at family members, calling them obscene things while everyone tries to ignore him >_>

Talking sense to zealots never ends well. I remember getting into a debate over stem cell research with some gal I know recently. She was a pro-lifer, and boy... We're talking about craaaaaazy views on the stuff. Could end a number of hereditarial diseases and restore nerve damage. But the researchers and the folks helping it will be condemned to hell. wtf >__> Then my crack was "we'll see how you feel about it if you should break your back and lose the usage of half or more of your body." That didn't go over well with her...

Porn hasn't been a highly-held model job by anyone. But it's somewhat based on prostitution, the oldest profession in the world. Some folks will say they're doing it "because they need the money." That's just a quitter attitude. I know a few gals who are complete knockouts around here that were evidently offered jobs that'd pay nicely for dubious activity (Playboy recruits quite heavily here, and there are a few strip joints littered about). But they turn it down and just work hard at a more respective job. Something that won't haunt them per se.

Eerily interesting topic to read about =o

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

I don't recall saying it was alright, though I personally don't see the problem with it. If they are a'buying, she'll be a'sellin'. Are you saying that all the people who watch porn have psychological problems as well? Really, isn't it about supply and demand? How is she being greedy?

My bad ~ I should have stated I was using the Southern Baptists as only one example ~ or more so, the one I know best. And so I basically assumed this gentleman was of the Christianity faith, Baptist I would even bet, since that (Christianity) is the predominant religion in this country and they (Baptists) are fervent about Hell.


And you're right, it's all relative to what a religion believes. But my point was, and again, I'm assuming, but I doubt I'm wrong, if this man is a Christian, he is not supposed to judge. Or is maybe that only preached in certain denominations of Christianity? (rhetorical, not expecting you to know or answer).


Gechmir ~ yes, I understand that the church and its people aren't perfect. They'd be God, then. :-)~ But to publically say what he said is not smiled upon by God almighty. As for the knockouts you know, I'm not sure what to say about that except that some people won't do it because of their moral beliefs, choosing to have a more respected job, or they can just plain be shy about getting naked for strangers.

It doesn't matter the reason. Not everyone thinks porn, prostitution, and the like is wrong. Jim Bakker and Jerry Swaggart sure didn't. :-)~

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by julia

I don't recall saying it was alright, though I personally don't see the problem with it. If they are a'buying, she'll be a'sellin'. Are you saying that all the people who watch porn have psychological problems as well? Really, isn't it about supply and demand? How is she being greedy?

Ah, I love when we can talk about whores, Julia. It makes my day. You're always so fun. <3

So you wouldn't have a problem if you had a daughter and she was a porn star? Or maybe a prostitute? You think thats great? You would wish her the best in porking a handful of different men daily? Or would you be happier for her if she chose another profession?

I am talking about the morality vs. the money. People will bend their personal rules for cash almost every day of the week. Its really pitiful if you ask me. I find it EXTREMELY immoral. Maybe you think it's alright - I don't.

Quote:

My bad ~ I should have stated I was using the Southern Baptists as only one example ~ or more so, the one I know best. And so I basically assumed this gentleman was of the Christianity faith, Baptist I would even bet, since that is the predominant religion in this country and they are fervent about Hell.

My apologies. I didn't mean to jump to conclusions about it.

(No one up here is really too fervent about hell, so it's kind of funny when I hear about preachers and all those clerics going on about FIRE and BRIMSTONE. Hilarity. It just seems to be an OBVIOUS scare tactic to me.)

Quote:

And you're right, it's all relative to what a religion believes. But my point was, and again, I'm assuming, but I doubt I'm wrong, if this man is a Christian, he is not supposed to judge.

Who are you to determine what a Christian would do. (I don't mean that to sound offensive.) I mean, seriously. None of you can judge anything, since a "good Christian" is like, totally gray area. No one can seem to AGREE on what a GOOD CHRISTIAN is. Kinda funny, that. ^_^

How ya doing, buddy?

Who am I to determine? I don't ~ I'm going by what the good book says a Christian should and should not do. And by God, God is one serious God when it comes to obeying his laws, no?

As for your first question, I'm not sure what to say. Someone asked me those same questions years ago about Corey when I said pot should be legalized. I told them, that no, I wouldn't particularly like it, but if it is what he wants to do, he will find some way to do it, whether I like it or not. Tehy basically thought I was a horrible mother to even possibly think I would not have a problem with him smoking pot.

And guess what? I dealt with that very issue about 6 months ago while I was gone from GFF. I can't say that I jumped for joy when I found out; I was more upset in the manner of how it came to happen (long, boring story). But regardless, I have since then known about when he has drank and the times he has smoked pot because he tells me and doesn't sneak behind my back. I'm not sure if that makes sense to you or makes me sound leniant, but I guess I am pretty laid back about those things.

I just don't know what to answer to your daugher questions. Though I've never been paid to have sex, I've been with a lot of people in my 43 years, starting from the age of 19. Does that make me a bad person or a whore?

Immorality is a tough issue~

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