Why is the murder rate in the US so high?

Murder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Can anyone elaborate? Is it the drugs? poverty? guns?

I mean, we have a death penalty for murder....on the flipside we allow guns in homes.

It's not just numbers, its a ratio. This is what i came to after doing some calc math.

Canada - .1757

France - .000015625 (how do they do it?)

USA - 5.6 (why are we so deadly)

Brazil - 3.0054644808743169398907103825137e-4 (lol wtf?)

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Because ultimately, American culture is a more violent than other cultures.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

It's tempting to just throw the problem at gun ownership and say that's it. I think that's not quite on the mark, personally. The US's problem is that our gun laws are too lax. Our background checks aren't worth a shit. I can get a handgun license at 21 that will never require me to renew it again. WTF?

The right to own a gun is in the constitution and that's not going to change, but that doesn't mean we need to be passing out free guns with the purchase of a 12-pack.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Vinjeux

France - .000015625 (how do they do it?)

They don't take themselves so goddamned seriously, that's how.

Brazilians, too.

They play harder than they work. They're not wound as tightly as Americans seem to be.

Of course, this is my own observation. I've been to France, and the lifestyle is a lot more simple, but a lot less stress than in the US. Life isn't focused on GET MONEY, SPEND MONEY as much as it is here. People here would sell their soul if it meant they'd get a little richer. Not to say some people overseas aren't like that, but society doesn't really shove it down their throats like we have it here.

I don't even want to speculate about the guns. I'm sure it's got something to do with it, but I suspect the mental health of the nation has more to say about our murder rates than the gun control issues.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Why is the murder rate in the US so high? Boston Red Sox fans.

The real question is - why aren't more of them dead?

(Don't forget that murder doesn't require a gun, so bringing gun permits into this is moot. Kitchen knives don't require a permit and practically everyone owns a car. Murder is simply the method in which someone dies - be it manslaughter or otherwise.)

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by LeHah

Why is the murder rate in the US so high? Boston Red Sox fans.

Jesus. Bitter much?

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by Sassafrass

Jesus. Bitter much?

As opposed to 80 years of jokes about Babe Ruth and pianos falling by people who mispronounce every word containing a vowel in a second rate city? Not even close.

FELIPE NO

Quote:

It's tempting to just throw the problem at gun ownership and say that's it. I think that's not quite on the mark, personally. The US's problem is that our gun laws are too lax. Our background checks aren't worth a shit. I can get a handgun license at 21 that will never require me to renew it again. WTF?

The right to own a gun is in the constitution and that's not going to change, but that doesn't mean we need to be passing out free guns with the purchase of a 12-pack.

American gun laws are hella restrictive short of outright banning firearms.

The problem isn't gun ownership -- criminals, by definition, don't follow the law, so stopping American citizens who abide by the law from owning weapons or making it harder for them to get them won't stop a bitch ass thing.

In order to support your point, you'd have to show that a substantial portion of these gun murders were done with legally purchased firearms.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by LeHah

As opposed to 80 years of jokes about Babe Ruth and pianos falling by people who mispronounce every word containing a vowel in a second rate city? Not even close.

So you're here to contribute absolutely nothing to the actual conversation then?

You're just going to sit there and talk trash about fans of a certain sports team in the middle of a discussion about murder rates?

As for the actual topic, here: why would people jump to the conclusions that guns are "probably" to blame for the high murder rate in this country? Criminals in any nation will likely obtain a gun, regardless of the law.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Sassafrass

As for the actual topic, here: why would people jump to the conclusions that guns are "probably" to blame for the high murder rate in this country? Criminals in any nation will likely obtain a gun, regardless of the law.

I think you're much more likely to be bludgeoned to death in England than shot.

Of course, that's a tiny island. And we know how incompetent the US Gov't is at keeping things "controlled."

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Well, I mean, let's face it: if you want to kill a person, there's more than one way to do it. You don't need a gun to murder.

Which is why I am a smidge confused about the gun control argument here. Like I said, I think it says something about the American psyche more than anything.

Why are we such murderous assholes? Is it REALLY because guns are more accessible here than in any other nation?*

*I don't actually know this.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

The alienation Americans feel from each other, the lack of meaningful human connection, makes it easier to stifle empathy and end another's life. For all America's material wealth, its technical sophistication, it has failed to improve on the things humans need most. Psychiatric pharmacology cannot replace familial emotional connections or a sense of community. Convenience and assembly line processes cannot replace meaningful work that one can take pride in. American life becomes a competition for wealth, encouraging people to regard one another as enemies. The people, their needs perpetually unmet, forget exactly what it is they are lacking, and are puzzled and frustrated when their children are unsatisfied. Each generation becomes successively more disconnected from their own humanity. Violence in media is the result of this, a symptom, not a cause.

There are many reasons for murder in every culture. Americans simply more often lack the reasons to refrain from it: empathy, any shred of hope that their life could improve, having a worthwhile life they wouldn't want to lose due to incarceration or execution, etc.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

As much as I hate people who want to blame the media for people's actions. Look at how backwards things are here. We censor the heck out of anything sex related but don't give a crap about violence. This is like completely backwards from other countries.

That and the wealth thing others mentioned. Makes me glad I don't care about money as long as I have enough to get by. Course I guess that just means I'm more likely to be murdered then the other way around.

I was speaking idiomatically.

I'm curious as to what the ratios for death from other causes are, amongst the countries listed in the first post.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

On the other hand, it's really easy to say "I only need so much money enough to get by."

Think of all the unnecessary crap Americans buy - how much shit do you have laying around on your shelves that you never use? The things you purchase "just because." What is "enough to get by?" Enough for food, shelter, and warmth? Is it because that's all you can afford? If you could afford more, wouldn't you have more? Where is the line drawn?

I agree with the majority of what Gray said, but at the same time, I don't think the world at large is without a lot of the same symptoms. The world is becoming a smaller place, and it's becoming the same-old, same-old everywhere.

Americans, I think, have just become so stressed out and so distanced from what is reality that they're losing themselves in their endless pile of stuff.

We're bred to think a college degree, a great job, and productivity in a meaningless job in a high-rise someplace is what we should all aspire to become. Creativity is lost, which in my opinion is a great outlet for people to get in touch with each other.

It may sound cliché, especially coming from me, but I think we've lost a sense of self. We're wrapped up in what we "should" be, and aren't focused enough on what we want to be. This, I believe, can cause a lot of societal problems. I know people who go through endless cycles of jobs, careers - even family - and they still don't know who they are or what they want. There's no cutting loose, there's no exploration of yourself, there's no doctor to tell you what you really need in lieu of writing something up for the pharmacist to prepare.

The answer isn't in drugs, television programs, self-help videos, or even in riches. It's in ourselves.

How ya doing, buddy?

Brazil murder rate is biassed, the vast majority here is murder II or IV, the lack of a good health care and the fact that most police forces take forever to arrive at the scene is what raises mortality.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Sassafrass

So you're here to contribute absolutely nothing to the actual conversation then?

Good job, the fat girl can't put down her box of donuts long enough to read what I did post...

Quote:

(Don't forget that murder doesn't require a gun, so bringing gun permits into this is moot. Kitchen knives don't require a permit and practically everyone owns a car. Murder is simply the method in which someone dies - be it manslaughter or otherwise.)

Congrats on being willfully ignorant!

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Originally Posted by LeHah

Good job, the fat girl can't put down her box of donuts long enough to read what I did post...

How's that one-trick pony thing working out for you?

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Night Phoenix

American gun laws are hella restrictive short of outright banning firearms.

The problem isn't gun ownership -- criminals, by definition, don't follow the law, so stopping American citizens who abide by the law from owning weapons or making it harder for them to get them won't stop a bitch ass thing.

In order to support your point, you'd have to show that a substantial portion of these gun murders were done with legally purchased firearms.

Compared with other countries we are insanely lax - of course, I do live in the Midwest, so it's hard to say comparatively what things are like in coastal cities. Here in Indiana though there's more ways to get a gun than I'm able to count.

I don't mean to argue for more gun control...but Indiana at least could definitely use smarter gun control. I basically just have to show up and say that I'm not a felon and a day later I can go out and legally get a firearm - provided the vendor actually cares that I'm licensed to own one.

A lot of murder crimes are done with guns - and I don't think we need to necessarily do more blanket restrictions on ownership...well, you know where I'm going with this, already covered it.

Even more legal restraints would make it difficult to obtain a gun illegally. I know ultimately it's not going to stop a criminal who wants to kill somebody, but I can't imagine it wouldn't help at all.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by DarkLink2135

Compared with other countries we are insanely lax - of course, I do live in the Midwest, so it's hard to say comparatively what things are like in coastal cities. Here in Indiana though there's more ways to get a gun than I'm able to count.

I don't mean to argue for more gun control...but Indiana at least could definitely use smarter gun control. I basically just have to show up and say that I'm not a felon and a day later I can go out and legally get a firearm - provided the vendor actually cares that I'm licensed to own one.

A lot of murder crimes are done with guns - and I don't think we need to necessarily do more blanket restrictions on ownership...well, you know where I'm going with this, already covered it.

Even more legal restraints would make it difficult to obtain a gun illegally. I know ultimately it's not going to stop a criminal who wants to kill somebody, but I can't imagine it wouldn't help at all.

Thats not true, you can't buy firearms here, well, you can, but the process involves you being screened by the federal police, a 4 months waiting, and you have to actually proove by means without a doubt that you need a firearm.

Yet, the results are show by the OP, Phoenix is right, felons don't need permits.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Sassafrass

On the other hand, it's really easy to say "I only need so much money enough to get by."

Think of all the unnecessary crap Americans buy - how much shit do you have laying around on your shelves that you never use? The things you purchase "just because." What is "enough to get by?" Enough for food, shelter, and warmth? Is it because that's all you can afford? If you could afford more, wouldn't you have more? Where is the line drawn?

If that was directed at me, I more or less ment I don't have a particular desire to be rich. If I won the lottery would I be happy? Yes. But I don't have a particular reason to be rich or much reason to strive for it. Because as long as I can afford a place to stay, eat, utilities, and a few entertainment items every now and then I'm happy. If I was rich, I honestly wouldn't have anything to spend it on. I'd just get a nice house and never work again.

I never finished college either because I hardly see the point. Michigan is so messed up right now that even if I had a college degree, I'd probably need to move out of state to get a good job and I don't want to leave here. Everyone I know or care about is here. But I'm trailing off now...

Back on topic, like others have said you don't need a gun to kill people. Most the time when someone is killed by a stranger who is robbing them or something else it is with a gun. Most the time in gang violence it is with a gun. But most the time when the more disturbing murders occur where like a man kills his wife, mother kills their kid, etc. It's not done with a gun and alot of the scenarios end up far more disturbing then if the person had simply shot the person.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Sassafrass

How's that one-trick pony thing working out for you?

About as well as you and the previously mentioned early morning box of donuts, thanks <3

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by Yamigarasu

Thats not true, you can't buy firearms here, well, you can, but the process involves you being screened by the federal police, a 4 months waiting, and you have to actually proove by means without a doubt that you need a firearm.

Yet, the results are show by the OP, Phoenix is right, felons don't need permits.

Then like I said, it definitely varies from state to state.

I'm not pretending that felons don't have means to obtain firearms. Very few gun murders are committed with guns that are licensed to the killer, I'd imagine. But that's no reason to make it easy for everyone to pick up a gun.

But like I said, this is just how it is where I live. Most of America probably has pretty sane gun laws I guess, at least in comparison to here.

I agree with Phoenix though in that our culture is a lot more violent than other cultures.

I usually laugh at how Europe is a bunch of pansies when it comes to movie violence, and how the US cringes at the mention of the word 'sex'. But in reality I'd say a lenient attitude towards sex is a helluva lot more healthy for everyone than a lenient attitude towards violence.

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Just for anyone who is interested (and hopefully this will help explain some of my attitudes about gun laws):

Indiana Gun Laws:

Rifles and Shotguns

* Permit to purchase rifles and shotguns? No.
* Registration of rifles and shotguns? No.
* Licensing of owners of rifles and shotguns? No.
* Permit to carry rifles and shotguns? No.

Handguns

* Permit to purchase handgun? No.
* Registration of handguns? No.
* Licensing of owners of handguns? No.
* Permit to carry handguns? Yes.

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In addition, we've got a lifetime handgun permit, you can buy any gun you want just by showing up at a gun show, no background checks, permits, or anything needed. We used to have a seven day waiting period before you could buy a firearm, but that was done away with in the late 1990's. You have to go through a Federal background check, but only a state background check for handguns. This means shotguns, rifles, and most assault weapons not only require no permit or license to carry, you aren't checked at a state level for them (which I believe is a lot more efficient than Federal checks).

The only thing I'm glad Indiana does have is the law that lets you shoot trespassers on sight when you feel you are threatened. The whole "your home is your castle" doctrine-law-thingy.

I don't know where you live but here, if you want a gun, even a handgun, it's a piece of cake.

FELIPE NO

The explanation for why the murder rate is so high in the U.S. is far more complicated than can be boiled down to the simple explanation as it's guns. Guns are a tool for killing, not what makes people kill. Class divides, racial tensions, gangs, drugs, jealously, greed, pride and many other factors are thrown into the mix. I don't even think that being more tolerant of violence than sex would contribute towards a high murder rate.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

An ill-advised war on drugs coupled with the withering of the extended family seems to make for a fairly potent amalgamation.

Jam it back in, in the dark.