So, they're cutting down on liquids that can be carried on planes...

Originally Posted by Wesker

Yes, this is true, and very comendable, but, instead of making a statement along the lines of " We won't tolerate these terrorists in our community and will turn them in"...we get the usual "Muslim as victim" response.

So press releases are more important than ratting out actual terrorists?

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by a lurker

So press releases are more important than ratting out actual terrorists?

No, not at all, but in todays victim mentality society, the squeaky wheel gets the grease and the Muslims have figured out how to squeak very loudly. They'll claim racism and bigotry and fear of retaliation everytime one of their own is caught doing something bad. The powers that be respond to all this whining with assurances that no one will dare pick on the poor oppressed Muslim and security will be even handed and across the board, thus, grandma from Des Moines is treated as just as much of a threat as Abdul standing behind her in line. The Muslim as victim goes way beyond this. They're the victims of Israel, they're the victims of the U.S., they're the victims of European bigotry, they're the victims of Indian aggression, of the Phillipine government..the list goes on. They never do seem, however, to acknowledge when other Muslims victimize Muslims. 47 dies at the hands of Muslims in Iraq yesterday and the Muslim response is nonexistant, but let Isreal kill a handful, or let an American bomb miss and the hue and cry is deafening.

How ya doing, buddy?

Easy solution to the problem, ban humans on planes. No more bombs, hijackings. Solves all problems.

All this hyped up security, you really think the terrorists would strike now? They're not lead by imbeciles. All the security is going to be hyped up, then slowly they'll start lowering it again and THEN they'll strike. TERROR!! FEAR! Be afraid, very afraid cause they're everywhere and everyone. Contact the government of any suspicious activity.

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Originally Posted by Wesker

No, not at all, but in todays victim mentality society, the squeaky wheel gets the grease and the Muslims have figured out how to squeak very loudly. They'll claim racism and bigotry and fear of retaliation everytime one of their own is caught doing something bad. The powers that be respond to all this whining with assurances that no one will dare pick on the poor oppressed Muslim and security will be even handed and across the board, thus, grandma from Des Moines is treated as just as much of a threat as Abdul standing behind her in line. The Muslim as victim goes way beyond this. They're the victims of Israel, they're the victims of the U.S., they're the victims of European bigotry, they're the victims of Indian aggression, of the Phillipine government..the list goes on. They never do seem, however, to acknowledge when other Muslims victimize Muslims. 47 dies at the hands of Muslims in Iraq yesterday and the Muslim response is nonexistant, but let Isreal kill a handful, or let an American bomb miss and the hue and cry is deafening.

Talk about victim mentality.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by a lurker

Talk about victim mentality.

And where is that post is a victimized attitutde? Maybe a fed up attitude, tired of all the Muslim whining. If they want to stop being profiled...stop killing people..pretty simple, but they tolerate terrorists for the same reason they tolerate Muslim on Muslim violence...because the terrorists are Muslims..and the rest of us are filthy unwashed infidels..deserving of our fates.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by Wesker

And where is that post is a victimized attitutde? Maybe a fed up attitude, tired of all the Muslim whining. If they want to stop being profiled...stop killing people..pretty simple, but they tolerate terrorists for the same reason they tolerate Muslim on Muslim violence...because the terrorists are Muslims..and the rest of us are filthy unwashed infidels..deserving of our fates.

You really don't understand anything, do you?

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On the bright side, at least that Sierra Mist commerical is hilarious now.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Wesker

And where is that post is a victimized attitutde? Maybe a fed up attitude, tired of all the Muslim whining.

In all honesty, you're the only one whining here. Terrorism has always been an aspect of our society we had to deal with. Why can't we just go on living our lives without all the hatred towards other religions and paranoia instilled by our governments?

Originally Posted by Wesker

If they want to stop being profiled...stop killing people..pretty simple, but they tolerate terrorists for the same reason they tolerate Muslim on Muslim violence...because the terrorists are Muslims..and the rest of us are filthy unwashed infidels..deserving of our fates.

You constantly talk about Muslims like you know every single one of them personally. I'm wondering what it is that makes you such an expert at understanding the opinions and feelings of the entire Muslim population on earth. Maybe people would start taking you seriously if you could do without the gross overgeneralizations just for once, Wesker.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Wesker

And where is that post is a victimized attitutde? Maybe a fed up attitude, tired of all the Muslim whining. If they want to stop being profiled...stop killing people..pretty simple, but they tolerate terrorists for the same reason they tolerate Muslim on Muslim violence...because the terrorists are Muslims..and the rest of us are filthy unwashed infidels..deserving of our fates.

god, you want capital-m Muslims to knock on your door and personally apologise whenever someone does something shitty. Christians do shitty stuff all the time, but I don't ask for the pope to kiss my ass every time Fred Phelps protests a solider's funeral.

It doesn't even matter to you that they DO, very publically, condemn terrorism to the point where they will help fight against it. You're just being hella whiny because they're not doing it right.

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by acid

You really don't understand anything, do you?

How about you explain it then. Explain why 90% of the terrorism in the world is perpetrated by Muslims. Explain why we've seen no massive protests by Muslims against Muslim terrorists. Explain why in every part of the world where a Muslim country borders a non Muslim country there is fighting. Explain why, whenever Muslims begin to attain a majority or at least a sizable minority they begin to demand changes in the laws of that nation. Please, enlighten me.

Double Post:

Originally Posted by a lurker

god, you want capital-m Muslims to knock on your door and personally apologise whenever someone does something shitty. Christians do shitty stuff all the time, but I don't ask for the pope to kiss my ass every time Fred Phelps protests a solider's funeral.

It doesn't even matter to you that they DO, very publically, condemn terrorism to the point where they will help fight against it. You're just being hella whiny because they're not doing it right.

Please detail the shitty stuff done recently by Christians in the name of Jesus. Don't drag out the tiny amount of times that a so called Christain nut job bombs an abortion clinic. Its hard for you, I know, but try to avoid moral relativism and give me examples of the worldwide Christain terror organizations and their nefarious acts. I can't seem to remember christaisn beheading people and shouting "Glory to jesus" while doing it. Christians haven't been plotting mass murder on the scale of our Religion of peace buddies.

As for Muslim condemnation of terror...if they're going to whine and protest evertime they are the victims of some perciebed wrong at the hands of the infidels, surely they've got the time to protest the actions of their murderous brethren. Please give me examples or links that i can look up regarding large anti-terror protest conducted by Muslims. If they sit by silently what else can be judged except that they give tacit approval to the actions of the terrorists. A simple Google search of "muslim anti terror protests" reveals alot of links to Muslims protesting anti terror LAWS, but almost none on Muslims actually protesting against terrorism. If the shoe fits.....

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Wesker

How about you explain it then. Explain why 90% of the terrorism in the world is perpetrated by Muslims.

Where are you even getting your numbers? Does this terrorism include small stuff like bombing abortion clinics? How about anyone getting hit with a terrorism charge in the US, I hear a lot of those are.... misplaced.

Quote:

Explain why in every part of the world where a Muslim country borders a non Muslim country there is fighting.

There's fighting everywhere, you know.

Quote:

Explain why, whenever Muslims begin to attain a majority or at least a sizable minority they begin to demand changes in the laws of that nation.

Sure, that's called 'representation'.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by a lurker

Sure, that's called 'representation'.

Representation is different than using ones religion to institute a civil code.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=35850

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Wesker

Please detail the shitty stuff done recently by Christians in the name of Jesus. Don't drag out the tiny amount of times that a so called Christain nut job bombs an abortion clinic.

Why not.

Quote:

As for Muslim condemnation of terror...if they're going to whine and protest evertime they are the victims of some perciebed wrong at the hands of the infidels, surely they've got the time to protest the actions of their murderous brethren. Please give me examples or links that i can look up regarding large anti-terror protest conducted by Muslims. If they sit by silently what else can be judged except that they give tacit approval to the actions of the terrorists.

"That's not us, we're not terrorists, we don't want to murder", which is what you think they all say, is somehow silent? Well whatevs.

I am not your google search.

Quote:

A simple Google search of "muslim anti terror protests" reveals alot of links to Muslims protesting anti terror LAWS, but almost none on Muslims actually protesting against terrorism. If the shoe fits.....

You are not supposed to put the shoe on your head, Wesker.

Double Post:

Originally Posted by Wesker

Representation is different than using ones religion to institute a civil code.

No, it's basically the same. Why do you hate democracy so much?

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by a lurker

Why not.?

Because its a lame argument based on misguided moral relativism. How many have been killed in these abortion clinic attacks? How often are they taking place. What percentage of the worldwide christian community is behind them. Your idea likening abortion clinic bombings to worldwide Islamic terrorism is like saying Stalin is the equal of a thug who shoots a convenience store owner. The fact that Stalin killed 25 million and the thug killed 1 is irrelevant...right???

FELIPE NO

What, mentioning that it's terrorism means that it's the Pepsi to islamofacists' Coke?

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by a lurker

What, mentioning that it's terrorism means that it's the Pepsi to islamofacists' Coke?

You can't be that stupid. Yes its terrorism, but the murder of 7 people since the 80's is nowhere near the scale of what we're talking about when it comes to islamic terrorists. So you must also be saying that the Earth Liberation Front of enviroterrorists are also just as big a threat and problem as Islamic terrorists...I guess they're R.C cola then...after all moral relativism demands they all be placed in the same collective boat in your world.

So beyond your weak attempt to link abortion bombing with worldwide Islamic terro, you've failed to give any other examples of "shitty" Christian behavior on par with "shitty" Muslim behavior.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Wesker

You can't be that stupid. Yes its terrorism, but the murder of 7 people since the 80's is nowhere near the scale of what we're talking about when it comes to islamic terrorists.

So why do you keep saying that it's true? What did Christians ever do to you, to make you think they're so awful? And you can't use gay marriage as an excuse, we just had that shitfest.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Once again, you've failed actually answer any questions or use any facts to support your lame assertions. You truly are "hopeless".

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Wesker

Once again, you've failed actually answer any questions or use any facts to support your lame assertions. You truly are "hopeless".

Why do you cut and run, wesker? Why don't you stay the course?

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Originally Posted by Devo

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/11/wo...rssnyt&emc=rss

It's not really a "oh god what are they going to ban now." Considering lethal explosive cocktails could be made with the right mixture of liquids/powders stuffed into toothpaste, shampoo, water and deodorany bottles, it's a pretty serious risk.

I didn't really read all the way through this thread so if something has been said about this sorry. But from what I understand the stuff 'they' were trying to make that would destroy the plane couldn't just be stuffed into a toothpaste, shampoo or water bottle.

Quote:

First, a note of introduction. Until recently, I was a computer
security guy, and as with many in my profession, the application of
computer security analysis to non-computer security problems was
increasingly interesting to me. Now, for reasons that don't need
exploring at this juncture, I'm back at school, studying chemistry,
and I'm spending this summer in a lab doing organic synthesis
work. Strangely, today I find my interests colliding.


So, I'm doing a bunch of reading, and I find the claimed method the
"highly sophisticated" attackers came up with for bringing down
airliners kind of implausible. I wonder if it could ever work in
reality.


A disclaimer, I'm working entirely off of news reported by people who
don't know the difference between soft drinks and nail polish remover,
but the information I've seen has the taste of being real. As near as
I can tell, it is claimed that the terrorists planned to make organic
peroxides in situ on board an airplane and use them to destroy the
plane.


This seems, at least given my initial examination of the idea,
implausible.


Based on the claims in the media, it sounds like the idea was to mix
H2O2 (hydrogen peroxide, but not the low test kind you get at the
pharmacy), H2SO4 (sulfuric acid, of necessity very concentrated for it
to work at all), and acetone (known to people worldwide as nail polish
remover), to make acetone peroxides. You first have to mix the H2O2
and H2SO4 to get a powerful oxidizer, and then you use it on acetone
to get the peroxides, which are indeed explosive.


A mix of H2O2 and H2SO4, commonly called "piranha bath", is used in
orgo labs around the world for cleaning the last traces out of organic
material out of glassware when you need it *really* clean -- thus,
many people who work around organic labs are familiar with it. When
you mix it, it heats like mad, which is a common thing when you mix
concentrated sulfuric acid with anything. It is very easy to end up
with a spattering mess. You don't want to be around the stuff in
general. Here, have a look at a typical warning list from a lab about
the stuff:


http://www.mne.umd.edu/LAMP/Sop/Piranha_SOP.htm


Now you may protest "but terrorists who are willing to commit suicide
aren't going to be deterred by being injured while mixing their
precursor chemicals!" -- but of course, determination isn't the issue
here, getting the thing done well enough to make the plane go boom is
the issue. There is also the small matter of explaining to the guy
next to you what you're doing, or doing it in a tiny airplane bathroom
while the plane jitters about.


Now, they could of course mix up their oxidizer in advance, but then
finding a container to keep the stuff in that isn't going to melt is a
bit of an issue. The stuff reacts violently with *everything*. You're
not going to keep piranha bath in a shampoo bottle -- not unless the
shampoo bottle was engineered by James Bond's Q. Glass would be most
appropriate, assuming that you could find a way to seal it that
wouldn't be eaten.


So, lets say you have your oxidizer mixture and now you are going to
mix it with acetone. In a proper lab environment, that's not going to
be *too* awful -- your risk of dying horribly is significant but you
could probably keep the whole thing reasonably under control -- you
can use dry ice to cool a bath to -78C, say, and do the reaction
really slowly by adding the last reactant dropwise with an addition
funnel. If you're mixing the stuff up in someone's bathtub, like the
guys who bombed the London subways a year ago did, you can take some
reasonable precautions to make sure that your reaction doesn't go
wildly out of control, like using a lot of normal ice and being very,
very, very careful and slow. You need to keep the stuff cool, and you
need to be insanely meticulous, or you're going to be in a world of
hurt.


So, we've covered in the lab and in the bathtub. On an airplane? On an
airplane, the whole thing is ridiculous. You have nothing to cool the
mixture with. You have nothing to control your mixing with. You can't
take a day doing the work, either. You are probably locked in the
tiny, shaking bathroom with very limited ventilation, and that isn't
going to bode well for you living long enough to get your explosives
manufactured. In short, it sounds, well, not like a very good idea.


If you choke from fumes, or if your explosives go off before you've
got enough made to take out the airplane -- say if you only have
enough to shatter the mirror in the bathroom and spray yourself with
one of the most evil oxidizers around -- you aren't going to be famous
as the martyr who killed hundreds of westerners. Your determination
and willingness to die doesn't matter -- you still need to get the job
done.


You also need quite a bit of organic peroxides made by this route in
order to be sure of taking down a plane. I doubt that just a few grams
is going to do it -- though of course the first couple of grams you
are likely to go off before you make any more. The possibility of
doing all this in an airplane lav or by some miracle at your seat
seems really unlikely. Perhaps I'm just ignorant here -- it is
possible that a clever person could do it. I can't see an easy way
though......

Source/read the rest of the article.

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There anything wrong with just banning all hand luggage outright?

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

A lot of people wouldn't fly anymore if they couldn't take carry-ons. Personally, my checked baggage has been lost at least 4 times. People wouldn't stand for that.

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Did they find the baggage?

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Quote:

A lot of people wouldn't fly anymore if they couldn't take carry-ons. Personally, my checked baggage has been lost at least 4 times. People wouldn't stand for that.

But would they stand for it in light of possible plots? Or would the airline?

It seems like quite an opportunity for the airline to sieze some ground, too. 'Get there safely and get there quick in this age of frightened congestion!'

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by AliceNWondrland

A lot of people wouldn't fly anymore if they couldn't take carry-ons. Personally, my checked baggage has been lost at least 4 times. People wouldn't stand for that.

I don't know if that would really cut down on air traffic. I mean, I'm not about to just not go on a vacation because I can't take carry-on on. If I'm going to Florida, I'm going to Florida. I won't spend the rest of my life in the city because I can't read the Da Vinci code on a flight.

You are right though, if they do ban carry-on luggage, the airlines are going to have to get their shit together with missing luggage. Having it lost does suck. We got it back thank god, but it is a terrible feeling.

There's nowhere I can't reach.