Gal Pal problems.

This part deleted due to problems that would occur if a new member read this part and told her/someone else.

Now, I have feelings for her; as I have mentioned beforehand. And I have kept all of my advice and opinions unbiased and it's getting harder and harder to keep them under wraps and under control. I really just want to tell her how I feel, but I know that at this moment, it would be the worst time to even mention anything like that to her. So question 1) How can I keep my emotions in control?

Second question; what advice can I give her that will help her out? I mean, I really care about her so I really just want her to be happy, but I'm afraid if I suggest to get back with him that she might get physically hurt.

Irony: This is exactly how her last bf turned out. He made her feel like shit the same way, (though he was also suicidal) and her present bf came along and she only told him bout her problems with her first ex and then she started goin out with her current bf.

Iono what to do about my feelings right now. And I would appreciate any and all advice I can get for that, and how to help her out.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

You really shouldn't tell her your feelings, it would just make her uncomfortable. I highly advise against it. Keep your emotions in control by considering that fact that you CAN'T instigate a relationship with her, but you can be a good friend. (seems like you already grasped that)

Well an advice you can give her is that YOU are there for her if she needs any help etc...Heck you can just call her or something, or email her.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

First you have to answer this; are you willing to lose this guy as a friend? Gain him as an enemy?

Because that's what will probably happen if you pursue this girl. Now, whether or not you do that is an entire other question. I'm not sure what you should do, but I do know what I'd do. I'd be honest, with both of them. It may result in some nasty stuff, but in the end you'll feel better for it.

Or you'll feel like shit. But honesty really is the best policy, in my opinion.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Well I'm aware that I shouldn't tell her my feelings. First and foremost because it might make her think my opinions would be biased and then wouldn't be able to get help from anyone.
I've made it noted that I'm there for her. I'm really badly sick as of yesterday morning and last night I stayed up all night with her (we were at our own houses, but I was helping her over aim and just waiting around when she said she didn't feel like talking anymore for a few moments).
So far I think the only circumstances that I would reveal my feelings towards her is if a) She was a GF member, (then I'm boned). or b) they break up, it's been a long while and she is making it known (flirting) that she has some sort of interest in me. (Luckily she is the type who would be willing ot make the first move).
And as I have said...I only want for her to be happy right now.

Double Post:

Quote:

First you have to answer this; are you willing to lose this guy as a friend? Gain him as an enemy?

Because that's what will probably happen if you pursue this girl. Now, whether or not you do that is an entire other question. I'm not sure what you should do, but I do know what I'd do. I'd be honest, with both of them. It may result in some nasty stuff, but in the end you'll feel better for it.

Or you'll feel like shit. But honesty really is the best policy, in my opinion.

He's a good friend, but as of lately he has seemed quite emotionally unstable and to be honest it has scared me as of late and I'm not really sure how close I really am to him as of late.
As for honesty being the best policy. The problem is that she is under soo much mental stress right now and is still in love with him. My saying that now would probably only put her under more stress and would be moot since she still has strong feelings for her. Right?

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Moot? If you were honest it shouldn't be in an attempt to get in her pants. It'd be an effort to do what's best for all involved. Like as not your current advice is most likely biased anyway, and your growing distance from this guy is probably stemming from your feelings for this woman, too.

I was speaking idiomatically.

My feelings toward the guy might be, but honestly, would you be cool with someone shoving a close friend into a wall, throwing a box at her, and saying he did nothing wrong? I mean, seriously?

It isn't an attempt to get in her pants or anything like that, but I'm not necesarily sure what you mean by 'it'd be an effort to fo what's best for all involved.'.

And surprisingly, I've kept all my advice in check. The only time I really came close to saying something biased was when she asked my opinion on whether or not she should go back to him. To which I responded something along the lines of 'I can't really say for sure, since I'm not in your shoes. Both ways that you can go have their ups and downs. And I cannot say what you should do in regards to that because I'm not in your place and don't know how strong your feelings for him still are.'

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by Aequitas

As for honesty being the best policy. The problem is that she is under soo much mental stress right now and is still in love with him. My saying that now would probably only put her under more stress and would be moot since she still has strong feelings for her. Right?

Originally Posted by Fresh Frank

It'd be an effort to do what's best for all involved.

Sorry if I was vague, I'll calrify. Yes, it may put her under more, stress. I took your 'moot' comment to mean that it wouldn't result in you two having any relations beyond what you do now, and it in fact may lead to less. That's all true, sadly. But in the long run being honest with her would be the best course.

It'd take a load off your back by allowing you to finally be honest with her in all areas, and free you of the burden of looking at everything objectively. And, previously stated, it'd probably suck for her at first but in the end she'd thank you for it.

FELIPE NO

Sounds like you suffer from typical nice guy syndrome to me. I’d walk away and let them handle their own shit. The more you deal with shit like this, the more bitter and psychotic you get. Find another chick to replace her.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

That is ideal SMX, but I don't think our dear Aequietas has it in him to do so. Just read his posts...

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Okay, I’m going to give more detailed advice and try to relate to the nice guys way of thinking again, then.

Aequitas, your problem is simple. It only seems hard to you because you’re in it, and thus – whether you’re consciously are aware of it or not – you analysis, or more so your ability to take action, is affected by your emotional connection.

Lemma: You like girl.

Delima: If anything happens between girl you like, you might lose friend(s).

The first choice of action is obvious, its Friend(s) vs Possible Girlfriend/FWB. You ultimately have to decide what you want the most and deal with the consequences of doing so. Nobody but you can tell which one it’s best to go with. However, know that no matter what you do, even if you do walk away, there will be consequences to deal with. You just need to stop thinking about it and actually take action. Thinking about it over and over again will make you go crazy. If not with this particular scenario, then some time in the future with another one. There are people that have been there done that already enough to know, and I’m one of them.

If you let them deal with it on their own:
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You might feel like a heartless bastard at first, but that’ll go away eventually. Actually, they’ll probably increase proportionately to you being the consoler. You can still be friends with them but avoiding playing the counselor role. Or at least, balance the counselor role. Your needs are important too. How often does the female friend genuinely help you out, emotionally? I’m assuming an appropriate balance doesn’t exist, because if it did, you telling her how you feel wouldn’t be an issue. Regardless if she was taken or not, it probably would have came out by now unless this just started happening. Ultimately though, find other girls and explore with them.

If you pick playing counselor: (what you’re doing now)
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Your feelings for girl probably won’t go away. You might manage to suppress them, but that’s going to lead you down the path of bitter hate that eventually 99% of all nice guys get too. You need to stop supplicating to her emotional stupidity. I’m not going to get into breaking down the psychology here. But I seriously advise you to read the following link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nice_guy_syndrome

Read the links on the “Essay” part as well. Don’t get in denial and view the information in a scientific manner while sequentially attempting to debunk its basis while at it. The point is to show that there’s hundreds and thousands of guys that go through this shit and it’s mostly rooted in insecurity complexes among all parties.

If you continue to do this, and you get emotional enough, you probably will do something incredibly stupid because of it and risk loosing them both as friends anyway. Whatever happens, know that suppressing your feelings will, eventually, blow up in your face. Either get over her properly (find happiness somewhere else) or go for her:

If you pick going for the Girl
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Know that while you are jeopardizing your friendship with the guy, emotions are not constant. They change, a lot. It’s possible that the guy might be mad, only at first. It might be possible that their relationship might be at a point where they already know it’s about to go to hell, and he just kind of accepts it. You just have to deal with the fact that you can’t possibly think of or predict every possible variable and thus must take a risk. Your focus shouldn’t be avoiding risk, but dealing with them as they happen.

In all honestly, I think it’s highly unlikely that the girl is going to regard you in a romantic manner considering all the blatant warning signs. However, if you’re at this point, you need to take action and test that. Do not communicated with words, communicate with actions. IE, don’t try to rationally explain to the chic: “hey I like you.” This only works when the female holds you in a very high romantic regard to the point where what you do doesn’t really matter anymore. If this was the case, you would know it by now, trust me. Instead, test your water with her. You need to escalate physical contact and judge how receptive she is with it. A rough idea of escalating physical contact would be:

In order from ‘harmless’ to ‘I want you’

- Greeting them with physical contact, like an arm hug (bodies don’t meet)
- A joke that somehow integrates touching them lightly
- A playful/witty mannerism that involves higher physical contact like rubbing
- Light tickling/poking
- Greeting with hug (involves close and direct body contact)
- Heavy ticking/grabbing
- Joking that involves suggestive contact
- Suggestive ticking/grabbling

A flashing green light would be her trying to provoke you to do any of it. A green light would be her playing along with you. A yellow light would be getting irritated, or avoiding it. A red light would be freezing up, jumping.

If you can get to the suggestive part, get her alone somehow, preferably emotional, and just kiss her. If she goes with it, stop eventually then rationalize the kiss with her and the friend later. If she pulls back, then it’s time to explain that you having feelings. Remember that if a person is at the point where they willingly want to cheat in a relationship, that’s not your fault, but is the fault of a rocky relationship to begin with. If dealt with maturely, sometimes it’s ultimately for the best. If the guys is really your good friend, though understandably pissed, he should eventually be able to put himself in your shoes and see what why you did what you did. It’s called forgiveness.

Out of all of this, the most important thing is that you need to take some type of action. Although it seems backwards, when dealing with emotions, a lot of the time what you do isn’t nearly as important as the fact that you actually do it. Stop trying to avoid making mistakes and learn to deal with them when they happen.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Thanks SMX for the in depth post.

As for how often she helps me out. I'm pretty much the only person I go to for my problems (which is about as often as she goes to me about her problems, relationship and otherwise). So there is somewhat of a balance with the helping and such.

As for the starting to make a move on her, that is idealy, what I would like to do. But I'm thinking that I should hold off on actually trying it for a few days and such. First, to see what their course of action is (getting back together, taking a break, completely breaking up) because she is the type of person that is truly devoted to the person she loves, and even though she is mad at him she still loves him. And in me trying to do anything like making a move immediatly, I will most likely get pushed away and such.

Another problem with making a move at this point is the fact that everyone thinks that they are still a couple and everything is perfectly fine. Only the two people in the couple and I know that they actually broke up/made up and all this stuff. And she and I are pretty much only around each other when there's people who know us are around. So me trying to make a move on her would possibly get them to think negatively about me, seeing as they would see her and him still being in a relationship and such. correct?

Thanks for all the wonderful advice so far!

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by SMX

The more you deal with shit like this, the more bitter and psychotic you get.

Living proof of that, baby.

Look, coming on to her now will only make her start closing herself off to you. She's in a shitty relationship now and she doesn't need a friend crawling up her ass with more feelings given the hostile "feeling" enviroment she's in now.

Drop that shit like its yellow cake. GTFO and don't look back.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

We attract what we are, and we are what we surround ourselves with. This girl attracts (and puts up with) psycho guys. Therefore, she has problems. A lot of guys actually seek out girls like this subconsciously so they can rescue them, but girls like this don't want to be rescued. They want boyfriends who treat them like shit. If they didn't want it, they wouldn't have it - it's as simple as that.

Also, she's going through enough turmoil right now without having to also deal with the fact that a person she considers to be a friend and confidante has developed romantic feelings for her. If you really want to help her, slap her across the face - hard. Then ask her how she liked it, and tell her that if she doesn't get her shit together she's in for a lifetime of that sort of treatment from men.

Most amazing jew boots

Originally Posted by LeHah

Living proof of that, baby.

Look, coming on to her now will only make her start closing herself off to you. She's in a shitty relationship now and she doesn't need a friend crawling up her ass with more feelings given the hostile "feeling" enviroment she's in now.

Drop that shit like its yellow cake. GTFO and don't look back.

Yeah, I was planning on waiting awhile before telling her anything I think.
(I've had feelings for her in the past and she has known that)

But also, she tends to go for people who are slightly wacky (that I am, example: Bouncing a fast food bottle (the ones with the easy to pop off tops) off our sculpting teachers back into the garbage can...yeah, at art school we all do crazy stuff like that, even the teachers). and people who seem nice. The only difference I have seen so far between the characteristics of her old boyfiends and myself is the one of them was suicidal, and one of them is somewhat fucked up in the head now that one of our best friends killed himself and he stopped taking his ADHD meds. Otherwise they both were somewhat of the nice guy type too...save for they were a wee bit more fit then I...ok, somewhat more fit. heh.

If it weren't for that and she goes for the type of people that are complete asses I probably wouldn't consider telling her and being near her right now because I know I would have no chance at it. I may be really nice but I'm not someone who sucks at thinking things out! haha.

Also, in terms on contact lately, as of late I have had more physical contact with her. Such as hugging her when I'm leavin and won't see her till the next day or so, or jokingly doing one of those 'ghetto' long ass hugs where you like, slap eachothers hands then do all the crazy stuff then the whole bumping shoulders thing. (Btw, we live in an area mostly full of caucasians and asians and that we don't act like that other then the hug, cause it's just funny to do).
And finally, she is somewhat 'touchy' with people she is really close to. She hugs me a lot, and other random things (too many to write down) and I'm the only other guy other then her bf that is treated like that.

Double Post:

Originally Posted by AliceNWondrland

We attract what we are, and we are what we surround ourselves with. This girl attracts (and puts up with) psycho guys. Therefore, she has problems. A lot of guys actually seek out girls like this subconsciously so they can rescue them, but girls like this don't want to be rescued. They want boyfriends who treat them like shit. If they didn't want it, they wouldn't have it - it's as simple as that.

Also, she's going through enough turmoil right now without having to also deal with the fact that a person she considers to be a friend and confidante has developed romantic feelings for her. If you really want to help her, slap her across the face - hard. Then ask her how she liked it, and tell her that if she doesn't get her shit together she's in for a lifetime of that sort of treatment from men.

To retort, she really doesn't go for that type on purpose. It just ends up lke that. Her first boyfriend she found out was suicidal after he attempted to and left a note for her saying it was all her fault and some other things. Her second boyfriend (the current one) is a really nice guy and none of us really knew he had any mental problems or anything. But since one of our best friends commited suicide he stopped taking his ADHD meds and his thuoghts and actions are really fucked up now (at least with her).

Thanks for the advice! (I may actually have to slap both of them, though I don't know which one it would be more enjoyable to slap.)

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by Aequitas

Yeah, I was planning on waiting awhile before telling her anything I think.

I gotta ask - how old are you? I think I was having these problems when flannel was "in" and My So Called Life wasn't yet canceled.

Look don't even bother telling her you like her. She knows it - she's just stringing you along because she knows you don't have it in you to just grab her hand and put it on your trouser snake. See, because you're such a nice guy - you won't try something stupid like kiss her or masturbate using her panties.

She's doing this because she's deranged like her boyfriend, just in a more subtle way.

Women are shit. Holla.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by Aequitas

To retort, she really doesn't go for that type on purpose. It just ends up lke that.

That's what I used to tell myself, too. Then after lots of reading up and learning about what causes this kind of thing to happen, and eventually going through counseling, I found out that women who mysteriously keep ending up with these abusive, mentally ill or just plain jerky guys definitely do it on purpose. It's more of a subconscious thing, but it's definitely a choice we make. Check back with her in ten years and see if her track record magically changes (without getting some help) or if she just happens to have hooked up with five or six more guys just like the ones you described.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

LeHal: I'm 17, and have been having these problems since people in my school who are causasian or asian act african american. (3 years or so)

What exactly do you mean by stringing me along? And the later on what you said for the something stupid category is kinda weird. Hah.

AliceNWonderland: 10 years you say....hmmm. Yeah, I can see what you mean by that. I guess as you said, only thing to do is wait and see (essentially)

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Aequitas

What exactly do you mean by stringing me along?

If she knows you've liked her for a while, why did she hook up with this other, abusive guy? She skipped over you, man. You're second-string, you're Ducky from Pretty In Pink.

"If you want someone to love you, open your heart. If you want someone to be obsessed with you, close it."

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by LeHah

She skipped over you, man. You're second-string, you're Ducky from Pretty In Pink.

You just gained 10 cool points, LeHah. <3

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by LeHah

If she knows you've liked her for a while, why did she hook up with this other, abusive guy? She skipped over you, man. You're second-string, you're Ducky from Pretty In Pink.

"If you want someone to love you, open your heart. If you want someone to be obsessed with you, close it."

Your avatar plus that Ducky reference has given you a hell of a lot of bonus points.

I had feelings for her last school year in september (2004). This was when I was oblivious and didn't really notice that she and her current boyfriend really liked eachother and were starting to go out. So I let my feelings just fade and she realized that I liked her earlier because my actions around her weren't the same (around Oct 2004) (Side:note, I met her and became friends with her in Sep 2004) I'm not entirely sure if she currently has any idea that I have feelings about her though.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by LeHah

Look don't even bother telling her you like her. She knows it - she's just stringing you along because she knows you don't have it in you to just grab her hand and put it on your trouser snake. See, because you're such a nice guy - you won't try something stupid like kiss her or masturbate using her panties.

She's doing this because she's deranged like her boyfriend, just in a more subtle way.

Women are shit. Holla.

Probably the truth here. Considering your age she might still be somewhat naive and not really be aware of how she’s going to manipulate you get what she wants. (One day you’ll actually see just how much typical females do this crap) But the point is that, like most young ignorant females, she knows you’re going to deal with any stupid emotional crap she throws at you. You’re her safety net. Instead of improving herself, her quality, her situations, she’s probably just going to fall back on her safety net. In other words, she's going to use you, her emotion whore.

Also, what you want to do is referred to by this as a ladder jump. Whether or not you agree with the site is irrelevant. The idea here is that you’re trying to jump from the friend zone to romantic interest. The only way you even have a remote chance of this working is if you take charge and do something to entice sexual interest that she never associate you with doing. Also, this definately will cause the most drama between everybody. Probably so much so that you don't have the experience to deal with. The good part, though, is that you'll probably get a lot of experience from shaking things up like this. Just dont' be dumb and start shit simply for the sake of doing it.

The only way I’d take this route personally is if I there’s was just this special connection there with her unlike anything I have not only experienced, but know damn well that I’ll only find once in a blue moon.

I was speaking idiomatically.

I read through the whole site, and upon doing so I'm not entirely sure how I would do a 'ladder jump' successfully. The only thing I saw on the site was two examples of unsuccessful ladder jumps where he tries to kiss her and gets rejected, and where he asks her on a second date and gets rejected. Is that supposed to say that there is no way to successfully do a ladder jump?

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Lol @ the Master Ladder.

Well I don't know about the revelancy of page-long posts... but the steps to take are obvious :

Wait it out. Stay friends, you will know exactly when she is in fact ready to be over this shit-bag that hits her... you can tell her how you feel. Oh, and please punch you friend in the face and tell his sorry ass to stop hitting his woman.

FELIPE NO

Well I'm going to be at art school tonight and if he does actually try anything to hurt her I will punch him hard in the face. Otherwise I can't since I'm not really supposed to know anything.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Aequitas

Well I'm going to be at art school tonight and if he does actually try anything to hurt her I will punch him hard in the face.

Okay, NO.

Firstly, what you do is this - you get the girl behind you and calmly say to him "We're leaving". And then leave.

LEAVE. Don't saunter away, don't curse him out, don't do anything theatrical. Just pack your shit and GTFO.

Okay, see, heres how the law will work in your favor. What happens is that if (God Help Us) police were to get involved, you'd be cuffed for taking a swing at him, even if it was in protection of the girl. When an office arrives on the scene and sees one guy on the ground and someone else standing over him, Officer Joe Schmo automaticly has to assume that the one standing was the aggressor and did something like break a bottle over the other guy's head or the like.

However, if you actually give a real attempt to defuse the situation by leaving the scene and he attacks you, THEN it's self-defense. Barring stuff thats excessively violent like curbstomps or breaking his windpipe, you're in the right to protect yourself from bodily harm until he's no longer a threat. Don't stomp him like a nigger once he's on the ground - thats excessive force and he could sue. However, if you try to walk out and he comes at you with a haymaker, all you need to do is put all the weight into the heel of your foot and bring it to his knee and break that shit. He's out of the fight.

I don't agree with getting into a fight nor you breaking people's knees but this is fucking truth, son.

Jam it back in, in the dark.