[General Discussion] Classic Games and Future Generations?

Originally Posted by me in my journal

It's getting to the point where many of the great titles from the past are becoming lost to obscurity. I, as a young'n during the days of the SNES, and not having disposable income during the N64 PSX days missed out on a lot of games that i really regret not playing. I never once experienced the Breath of Fire series, the Mana series (except for Children which i heard doesn't come close to the other games) Earthbound, among many other titles that aren't RPGs many of which i'm sure i haven't even heard of before.

The question on my mind is is it time for game developers to make a bigger effort to remake their games? I realize that Squeenix is doing alot to bring back classic Dragon Quest and Final fantasy, and Capcom has given us various Megaman collections, and there are lots of other instances of games being remade, or brought up for resale, but does it hit the franchises most deserving of being recognized and passed on to new gamers?

Can anybody understand my point/question? To sum it up, i suppose i'm asking, in a move to bring classic games back from the dead should developers perhaps set aside a development team to bring back that developer's classic games? That's just one idea i had, and i'm not sure if it would be worth it. Totally hypothetical of course, but does anybody else agree with me?

That's the entry i made about this in my journal. Obviously Nintendo has done this concern a favour by way of the Vitual Console, but it doesn't really help knowing that we'll probably never see Chrono Trigger or Terranigma on the VC. What are other people's opinions on this? Should future generations (and current generations) be given a (second) chance at some franchises? I know there are tons of games, some that i haven't even heard of probably, that i would love to play but can't for various reasons.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

I'm actually writing a paper on this very subject right now. I'm a student in a library school and taking an archives class, which is all about the preservation and migration of information from one form to another.

It turns out that there's a provision in US copyright law that waives the usual protective rights to intellectual property in the form of software, so long as it's being stored and maintained in a library or archive for educational or preservtion purposes.

I'm planning to argue that preserving old games in an official archive would be the best way to keep them alive for posterity, since copyright wouldn't be a problem and the setting might help get them appriciated in a scholarly, literary, or cultural context.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by orion_mk3

help get them appriciated in a scholarly, literary, or cultural context.

Yeah, good luck with that. Lemme know when we have game history professors, text books talking about the Konami code, and studies on the cultural impact of warp pipes.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

I read in Game Informer a couple months back that a university at Texas (not sure on the exact one) is creating a video game archives. That would definitely be awesome.

As far as resurrecting old video game franchises, I'm all for that. Either rereleasing them or remaking them I'd love to see. And it would be great if there was a way to play all the old games without aquiring the systems and games themselves, besides piracy. GameTap definitely has the right idea and I'd love to see that expanded.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Well I know with the NES, there is an emulator that works in a web browser, which I think is a pretty good and easy way for people to experience them. I don't know about systems after that though. It would be a shame if great systems like the SNES were simply forgotten about over the years.

I was speaking idiomatically.

I do believe that classic games deserve to play an important part especially with the present generation of gamers.

I'm sure there ares tons of ways you can make them more accessible, and even a lot of these older games are still enjoyable now as they were back then when I started to play them.

I think the biggest problem you have to overcome is that when you remake game or bring a game back from extinction initially its only going to cater to the gamers that have actually played the game before or to gamers that have always wanted to play the game but never had the chance.

It really has to be a profitable and worthwhile investment in order for video game companies to put in their own development team towards the remaking and rereleasing of older titles. It has definhetely worked especially for the more popular gaming brands within the video game industry.

Its just there is this frame of mind with a lot of new gamers that if a game is old that don't want to give it the time of day. I don't know if its like that where you live but where I live its always about whats newer/better. It seems like that gamers where I live are easily intimidated by eye candy style games.

I just think that you have to teach gamers especially at a very young age is that a great game is not nescessarily defined by great graphics or sound. I think the important thing is if the game can still be fun now compared to the game being fun back then. I'm sure I can probably get more enjoyment playing some of my favourite Atari games compared to some games that are being released these days.

My best friend and I are actually considering opening up a retro arcade. I remember arcades being so much fun back when most machines you only had to put in a quarter to play and it was always a fun dark majestic atmosphere. If we do go ahead with this idea we hope we can bring back some of the fun of playing games when I was a kid. I remember having so much fun playing G.I. Joe with three random strangers and just trying your best to kick as much ass as possible. Some gamers in my community are actually giving older games a chance because a game being old should not discount its accountability of how good of a game it can be.

Its definetely a great idea to preserve games like this, but deep down whats the point of preserving them in an archival sense if you can't get people to play them.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by Angel Of Light

Its definetely a great idea to preserve games like this, but deep down whats the point of preserving them in an archival sense if you can't get people to play them.

At least the games are there giving the people the opportunity to play them by having them in archives. It'd be more of a shame to lose those games due to neglect than to provide them in archival setting and no one plays them.

FELIPE NO

In response to Angel of Light, i live in Canada, where the video game culture is limited strongly by our population. We're sitting just over 30 million people, and that doesn't leave alot of room for niche markets. A friend an i were just in EB the other day, and we got to talking about it's very hard to sustain an obscure taste in games in Canada because there's such little demand for such games. It took me forever to find Pheonix Wright, the guy at the store said they were out of Okami and didn't know when they'd be getting more in, and that he hadn't seen a copy of Odin Sphere in two months.

On the other hand, i look behind the counter, and there's an entire shelf dedicated to Halo 3, one to Call of Duty and another to various sports games. Many young gamers in Canada buy what they are told to by TV. This forces many games to fade into obscurity in Canada prematurely. I would make a habbit of driving down to Fargo at least twice a year to go game shopping if crossing the border wasn't such a hassle.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Any big box or EB is gonna put up shelves and shelves of what sell. You're not going to miraculously find tonnes of copies of Okami if you go south of the border. Those games are niche in all markets, just not up here.

You want a damn game that might not be common, thanks to EB's dirty business model, you'll be pretty much FORCED to preorder it. They won't order titles if there's little to no interest expressed. It's not the optimal way of doing things, but it probably beats online retailers with shipping charges and sometimes ridiculous "we won't ship that to you" BS, like with the AC6 stick or the Mass Effect LE or whatever.

You're going to find this anywhere. The consumer gets fucked no matter what, and that's partially (maybe even mostly) EB/GS's fault. Where we get fucked more than the yanks is often with Canadian allocations from publishers, not necessarily the retailers.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Helloween

Many young gamers in Canada buy what they are told to by TV.

I don't think that is necessarily true. Games like Odin Sphere and Okami are inherently different compared to Halo 3 and Call of Duty 4. Those two latter games are centered around a more social aspect while the former two are what we could consider 'art games'. They appeal to an entirely different audience and even with a ton of marketing for Odin Sphere and Okami, I doubt that they would make a dent like Halo 3 or let alone Call of Duty 4. Be thankful that at least niche games are being made and there is some access to them.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Odd timing for this thread...I had one of those moments today when I went into a local theatre. It was like something out of the 1980's...A swarm of people over (of all things) a Ms Pac Man machine (also had Galaga) and a couple others on a Space Invaders machine (one of those Taito 20th Anniversary ones that also had Qix) and then, a Simpsons arcade game that was packed with people beating the stage 1 boss (the 4P Konami one...haven't seen one in over 10 years...bet I can guess why they got it). Sure there was DDR and Time Crisis and the obligatory line of racing games that last about a minute apiece per play with gimmicky rides, but it was something I hadn't seen in awhile...Everyone excited over those old arcade games.

I feel arcades are something that needed to evolve more than shut down. I mean, realistically, an owner can't afford to keep buying games that cost thousands apiece if no one plays them (and ask anyone who grabs a MAME ROM set...There's an insane amount of crap that's barely worth 25 cents to play. I feel bad for owners who paid $2000+ for a whole cabinet's worth of a shit game that maybe makes $50 in its' existence). I can pay $50 for a shit game, then recoup (or even MAKE) money selling it on ebay. What I would like to see are more of those classic Taito/Capcom cabinets with the 25 games or so to pick from and just have a whole arcade full of them. Also, I think they should have a set-up where you can bring in your own controller and hook it into the macine, so the crappy sticks and buttons aren't an issue. I think one of the major downfalls of arcades is owners who don't play games just not realizing how frustrating it is to play a game without working controls. Then they get mad when people beat up the machine because they feel they got ripped off (which is a valid argument).

And maybe not retro, but one reason I'm glad to see Guitar Hero-mania is because it's essentially an arcade game that offers up a quick, pick-up-and-play style (just like the rest of Konami's Bemani series, most of which didn't come out of Japan) and it's kind of refreshing after seeing game after game that has these huge time requirements to get anywhere or do anything. I imagine a set-up where you plunk in tokens to play in front of a crowd of people (instead of your empty apartment or for gangs of Youtubers) would do quite well and be a lot of fun. Or even better...Rock Band. Four people who have never met before, playing drums, guitars and singing classic music (and paying 50 cents a head per song) in front of a crowd would be insane. There just aren't many (physical) general gathering places for gamers, unless you know a lot of people.

As for "classic" game preservation...That's sort of been the whole point of emulation, a digital back-up for something on a limited lifespan. As much of a rip-off the VC can feel like, I think it's helped bring an awareness of classic gaming to the mainstream (as opposed to the emulation being an underground thing) and now people can see for themselves there's good stuff out there. Now that the casual market is growing (not to mention a nostalgic one that grew up with arcades and Atari/NES/SNES/Genesis/etc), I think classic games will do fine in the future. And there's plenty of us around to tell everyone how much better Final Fantasy 6 and Chrono Trigger are than nearly any modern RPG released today.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

This thread sparked sparks in my noggin over Retro Soft. British company that's planning to one day hopefully release C64 All-Stars and Spectrum All-Stars.


(Also due to hit PC and Wii)

They've spent like a bazillion years tracking down the creators of some of the more obscure games these systems had and buying the rights to them for these collections.

Classic compliations were a massive thing last generation (tee hee PS2 is retro), Midway Arcade Treasures 1-3, Activision Anthology, Capcom Classics Collection 1-2, Sonic Mega/Gems Collection, Sega Mega Drive Collection, Intellivision Lives!, Atari Anthology, Namco Museum 50th Anniversary, Konami Arcade Classics (GBA), Tecmo Classic Arcade, Megaman Anthology Collection, Megaman X Collection, Metal Slug Anthology, and uh.. probably more! These were big sellers, Sonic Mega Collection and the Midway ones sold eighty billion copies on launch day true story. Even though the second and third MAT games were terrible. Especially the third. You broke San Francisco Rush, Midway. You monsters.

And yeah, digital distribution is certainly filling in some of the gaps now (Neo Geo and TG-16 games now avaliable to the masses at fairly cheap prices.. compared to the three bazillion dollars a Neo Geo game would cost on cartridge~ now it's only two bazillion to download it to Wii). I'd say the industry is doing fairly well at keeping the classics around. Plus lately there's been a huge hungry hungry hippo frenzy over remakes and dragging up long dead games in general (Lemmings, Rainbow Islands, Devilish, New Zealand Story, After Burner, Alien Syndrome, Cameltry, Super Stardust, Ghosts 'N Goblins, Impossible Mission blah blah blah). I'm always surprised in my pants over some of the announcements these days. I mean, a new Bionic Commando? Seriously? I said wow.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

*copied reply from the same journal*

Personally I think just keeping their old titles intact for resale in collections should be enough (sup Wii Virtual Console). I'm not saying all remakes are bad, they just often have a tendency to lose their identity from what made them fun in the first place. We're not talking like with films making a black and white film in colour because they pretty much have to reprogram the entire game, so the temptation to change things around must be enormous or just be lazy bums completely and fuck it up like that sonic 1 remake.

Case in point space harrier which was remade in 3D with a bunch of other sega games I can't find examples for >.>:

YouTube Video

YouTube Video

I was speaking idiomatically.

I hated how the Sega Classics Collection remake there took away the trippy checkerboard ground from the original and chucked in bland semi-realistic ones.. until I found an option to have the original ground put back in!

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by Helloween

Many young gamers in Canada buy what they are told to by TV.

I'll certainly bemoan the loss of older, niche, or PC titles from mainstream retail markets. But regarding TV/media and its effect, didn't we in turn have our own "must have" titles, promised by the glowing screen to fulfill our rabid 80's childhood fandom?

Imagine this thread a decade or two from now with new participants reminiscing about the likes of Halo3.



FELIPE NO