[PS2] Shin Megami Tensei Series/Persona 3

Liked Nocturne and Digital Devil Saga? Can't stop talking about them? Or are you more interested in the older Persona games, or the upcoming Devil Summoner? This is the place to discuss those awesome games!

I myself finished Digital Devil Saga 2 last weekend, and the two games are definitely among my favourites. It's a relief to find some games that actually are a challenge, especially the second one kicked my ass with some boss fights, but it makes the ending all the more rewarding. I'll post a more indept review when I have some more time.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Haven't actually beaten any of the SMT games yet, although i'm real interested in them. Most of all i think it's the darker atmosphere they present.

I have Persona and Persona 2 to try sometime, but they'll probably have to wait till summer due to classwork. CURSE YOU COLLEGE! ><

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I didn't really like the Persona games, in fact I pretty much hated Persona 2. But Nocturne and the DDS games are masterpieces. Is there any word on whether or not they are going to release the devil summoner games here? Or the PSP remake/port or whatever?

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Devil Summoner has hit the shelves in Japan, Im just waiting for the day when Atlus USA announces the localization.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

I loved Nocturne and DDS1 to death, but DDS2 just felt really... out of place. Couldn't enjoy it at all, story felt boring and trite compared to the premise DDS1 gave to you, and the engine felt like an exact carbon copy of the first DDS'; granted it was, but I expected more of a change than adding Berserk status (which gets me killed half the time). I didn't find anything at all engaging about it, where both Nocturne and DDS1 dragged me in and didn't let go.

Spoiler:

DDS2' bosses pissed me off a lot more than those of Nocturne or DDS1, as well. Come on, Agidyne, Teradyne, Bufudyne and you're the fourth, IIRC, boss? Thanks a bunch, Tribhvana, you just killed me twice over.

Persona 2 was quite enjoyable for me, also. The characters all seemed genuinely human, the demon conversations were unique (and often hilarious), the music rocked, and the story was pretty good. There were a couple lulls, but it kept my interest.

I was speaking idiomatically.

I'm more of a fan of the old Shin Megami Tensei games (1, 2, if...), but never been too "in" to the spin-offs (other than the awesome Majin Tensei 2: Spiral Nemesis). Shin Megami Tensei 3 didn't have the same "feel" as the previous games, although, I do welcome the removal of the Magnetite -- I absolutely could not stand the MAG system. I believe they also got rid of INT (did they?), which was a welcome change.

Digital Devil Saga felt like a failed attempt at mixing Persona's focus on characters with Shin Megami Tensei's "heavy gameplay". Unfortunately, DDS suffered from un-likeable characters.

I enjoyed Persona 2: Innocent Sin, but didn't really like Eternal Punishment. The first Persona feels far too "archaic" at this point -- basically, the horrible "world" map coupled with the awful localization makes it hard to enjoy.

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How could you not like the characters in DDS? I fell in love with all of them pretty much the moment they were introduced, even the 'villians' I really liked which doesn't really happen for me.

FELIPE NO

I've got Persona 1 and 2, Nocturne (which is probably my favorite rpg of all time) and both digital devil sagas. Have to say that I love them all , and it's nice how the storylines intertwine so subtle between the shin megami tensei games.
Though my favorite thing about nocturne was the simple fact that just about every enemy you could recruit. Though Dante was just a simple cash in it seemed to me. Though he was perfect for random battles, but useless in against the secret boss.

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I'm currently playing the first Persona game, and although the graphics and overall style look pretty awful, I still enjoy it.Localization is pretty bad though, but it also gives us some rather hilarious lines ("I'm at the age where I want to experience older women" is just priceless).
I tried to start Persona 2 a few times, but something always came up and I quit after the first dungeon. I'll probably start it again in the near future though.

I don't really understand how people couldn't like DDS2. I mean, it had a brilliant prologue with DDS, and this time the characters got some more background, except for Cielo, which I was a bit disappointed in, but characters like Angel were brilliantly fleshed out. I'll go in deeper on the aspects that make me love this game when I have some more time.

And so far, there has been no word about a localization for Devil Summoner, or the Persona game for the PSP (which is a remake, I think).

How ya doing, buddy?

One question though... I've never played any of the SMT games and was wondering where to start?

After that I need to scrounge up the money so I can buy the damn games since they're rare and freaking expensive now.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

I'd personaly suggest Digital Devil Saga, or Nocturne. They don't have any connections to the other games, so background isn't necessary. If you're more interested in a good story, DDS is perfect for you, while Nocturne relies heavily on gameplay, and the story isn't that important (it's good nonetheless). The best Persona game is the second one, but it's more or less a direct sequel to "Innocent Sin", a Japan only persona game, so the story may be confusing. The first persona game isn't really that special, so it might turn you away from the entire series if you start with that.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Enkidu

They don't have any connections to the other games, so background isn't necessary.

Shin Megami Tensei 3 has some connection to previous games, specifically, cameos and the like -- you get a better experience if you notice some of the things that are mentioned in the game. I would suggest just emulating the first two Shin Megami Tensei games before playing the third one -- just because if you don't and just skip to 3 you'll probably have a harder time playing the originals should you ever choose to do so. I've always found the first SMT to be the best of any Megami Tensei games, though, it's dated it isn't nearly as obnoxious to play as the first Persona (which is ironic because SMT1 is about 5 years older than Persona 1). It's also nice to know what Lucifer was like in the previous games and to get a better overall grasp on what he's like.

Originally Posted by Enkidu

The best Persona game is the second one

I thought you said you never got far in Persona 2 (which Persona 2?). So... How can you make that decision? I've played them both, and I've found Innocent Sin is far superior to Eternal Punishment. EP makes some gameplay changes, but Innocent Sin had the better characters and story. Unfortunately, if you don't know Japanese you'd probably have to have a Translation guide assist you. Still, don't be lead to believe that EP is better.

Originally Posted by Enkidu

I don't really understand how people couldn't like DDS2.

I've already explained why and I see no reason to explain again. Shitty characters pretty much ruined it. Heat, Bat and Jinana were all I could stand.

By the way, Argilla is perhaps the most annoying character ever in an Atlus game. Seems the only reason she was added was to make the game less of a sausage fest. That, and the scenes in DDS2 where she

Spoiler:

shot Heat

pissed me off even more.

Originally Posted by Enkidu

The first persona game isn't really that special, so it might turn you away from the entire series if you start with that.

Uh, it's fine, if you can handle the horrible worldmap and mediocre localization. Doesn't mean it isn't "really that special", it just takes a different kind of patience to play.

Originally Posted by OZZcln

Though my favorite thing about nocturne was the simple fact that just about every enemy you could recruit. Though Dante was just a simple cash in it seemed to me.

Agreed. He's actually pretty goddamn useless near the end especially since you can't get rid of him. At that point in the game, you've got far better options than Dante. They might as well have just added Samanosuke, as well. Makes about as much sense as adding Dante.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

From what I've played in Persona 2 (I'm talking about the US one, with the reporter and the Joker), I quit just after the dungeon on a mountain or something, the first one after you get to explore the town map, I liked it better than the first game, especially being able to get the demons to actually join your party appealed to me. I'm not a big fan of the first persona (by which I mean the one with Sebek and Guido), except for the battles and the overall story. the dungeon design is rather boring and the rest of the gameplay isnt that good. It offered a good basis for the Persona system in the second game though.

I agree with you on Jinana, Bat and Argilla (although I loved her voice), but I personally liked Heat. The "real" Argilla is pretty lame, and easy to manipulate, but the other one isn't that bad. I also like to look at the characters that made the game great, like Angel, Gale or Cuvier. Welll, opinions difer, and I'm not such a big fanboy that I'll go into a pointless discussion.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Enkidu

I agree with you on Jinana, Bat and Argilla (although I loved her voice), but I personally liked Heat. The "real" Argilla is pretty lame, and easy to manipulate, but the other one isn't that bad. I also like to look at the characters that made the game great, like Angel, Gale or Cuvier. Welll, opinions difer, and I'm not such a big fanboy that I'll go into a pointless discussion.

Heat is underrated. Everyone seems to like Gale, Cielo or Argilla the most, though, I can't see why. Heat was the most interesting -- though, I think he had the most stupid looking demon form in Embryon. Serph, Cielo, Gale, Roald and Argilla all had awesome looking demon forms (I especially liked Serph, Cielo, Roald and Gale's), but Agni was ridiculous looking -- I think Kaneko even put the butter on Agni, hah.

I liked Bat because he reminded me of Sudou from Persona 2: Innocent Sin (especially his voice).

Jenna Angel was cool, and then I found out she

Spoiler:

had a dick.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

I just finished DDS2 two weekends ago, and the DDS games rank very high on my list of RPGs. The first game seemed to start out pretty generic, and slowly added more mystery and questions. Then the second game did such an excellent job of bringing everything together and managing to consistantly surprise me more than any other game I've played in recent years. Honestly, I think after the flashback to see "real" Serph he was my favorite.

Spoiler:

I just loved seeing the leader of the group turn out to be a maniacal genius who was the cause behind everything that went wrong. If only he had kept his ability to talk after that flashback.

Heat had the best VA though, and the same guy voices the main character in Castlevania: Curse of Darkness.

I still have Nocturne sitting on my shelf, so I might get back into that. I bought it long before DDS, but I got stuck early on against Thor and quit playing. Continuing that would be good, if for no other reason than to get Luceid to stop mocking me. I've gone back to a few of my other RPGs, but I miss the strategy battles in DDS required and I can't help but feel disappointed when critical hits don't give me an extra attack.

FELIPE NO

As for my favourite character besides Angel , I have to go with Heat or Gale (except for his voice, which sounds way too dull).

That plot twist about Angel was rather freaky, I have to admit. Some people go on that it's a method of showing her determination to eliminate the Cuvier disease, but it was useless imo.

As for Heat:

Spoiler:

While the real Heat tried to be more of a big brother to Sera, the AI Heat was just confused. Does he love her like, well, a lover and is that why he wants to protect her, or is his affection for her a product of the memories of the real Heat? This gives Heat a surprising amount of depth, which makes him a cool character. Too bad that the way he died was so damn shitty though.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Enkidu

As for Heat:

Spoiler:

While the real Heat tried to be more of a big brother to Sera, the AI Heat was just confused. Does he love her like, well, a lover and is that why he wants to protect her, or is his affection for her a product of the memories of the real Heat? This gives Heat a surprising amount of depth, which makes him a cool character. Too bad that the way he died was so damn shitty though.

On Heat and Cielo:

Spoiler:

I thought Heat had one of the cooler deaths though. He turned into that massive hulk of a boss, and then Serph ripped out of his stomach! Certainly better than Cielo's death, since even Cielo said on the Sun that he probably could have survived if he'd just used his laser again.

Speaking of Cielo though, he got completely gipped out of his origin story. The only way to even find out why he's with you is by talking to an out of the way NPC, and it isn't even voice acted! Before I started DDS2 I accidentally read about Cielo's death in the old SMT thread, so I thought it was funny when he turned out to be the LAST one to die.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Tri:

Spoiler:

Serph bursting out of monster Heat's stomach was pretty cool, I was more disappointed that he just died in a chair in the control room. It still was kind of sad though.

As for Cielo, I never found out how he died in the game, it wasn't until I read about it on Nirvana, that I found out that he was also one of the cyber shaman. Speaking of which, even though he was weak, shouldn't it give him some of the same powers Sera had?

I LOVED Gale and Angel's final scene though, especially since the woman who did Angel's voice is just awesome. It was really one of the defining moments in the game, and I've already watched it like 10 times. Argilla's and Roland's fight against Meganada was also rather cool, especially since they were slaughtered so brutally by Meganada.

Speaking of him, is it ever said in the game who he was? I know that he showed up after real Serph went on his demon rampage, but I don't know if he's also a transformed human, or if he was sent directly by god?

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Man, now I need to get back to my long neglegted quest on SMT: Nocturne - before I hunt (and I do mean HUNT) for a copy of the first DDS game.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

I played Nocturne, and to be honest, I was disappointed ;( Maybe I was looking for a more story-intensive game. Or maybe it's the fact that I hate games with "mute" main characters. Often lacks character design and makes it feel empty (unless it is Suikoden I or II, where they did full expansion on your characters, but they just never spoke).

I enjoyed Persona back when I played it, but Nocturne really didn't intrigue me in the slightest. As a result, I've marked off trying DDS1 & DDS2 because I have a feeling they'll play and unravel in the same sort of manner.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

DDS is more story driven, but it's also suffers from the mute main character thing (except for one point in the game). For one instance there's voice-acting, which really enhances the overall story experience. Nocturne's based much more on the gameplay experience and the battles, while DDS has much ore interesting characters (only having one main hero in Nocturne isn't that great, and the demons don't really have what you call a real personality). You should really give it a try, you won't be disappointed.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Enkidu

Tri:

Spoiler:

Serph bursting out of monster Heat's stomach was pretty cool, I was more disappointed that he just died in a chair in the control room. It still was kind of sad though.

As for Cielo, I never found out how he died in the game, it wasn't until I read about it on Nirvana, that I found out that he was also one of the cyber shaman. Speaking of which, even though he was weak, shouldn't it give him some of the same powers Sera had?

I LOVED Gale and Angel's final scene though, especially since the woman who did Angel's voice is just awesome. It was really one of the defining moments in the game, and I've already watched it like 10 times. Argilla's and Roland's fight against Meganada was also rather cool, especially since they were slaughtered so brutally by Meganada.

Speaking of him, is it ever said in the game who he was? I know that he showed up after real Serph went on his demon rampage, but I don't know if he's also a transformed human, or if he was sent directly by god?

Spoiler:

For Cielo, wasn't he just a Cyber Shaman candidate? I don't think he had undergone any of the actual experiments yet, which is why he couldn't use Sera's stuff. As for Meganada, I wondered the same thing. Since we never saw a human form for him even on the sun I assume he's meant to be some kind of pure demon sent by God.

I agree with you about the scene between Angel and Gale. That was an excellent way to end both of their stories and tie up David, and just a great moment overall. I watched it three times. =p I don't know about you, but I was all geared up for a second fight against Angel, and then that took me a bit by surprise when they both stabbed each other.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Spoiler:

I'm actually glad that there wasn't a second Angel fight. I would have thought it to be really lame if you had to kill her with your party. The scene with Gale was brilliant because it was so simple. No big attacks or flashy effects, just Angel stabbing him out of anger and sadness, and Gale looking at her with a caring look in his eyes when he kills her was amazing.

I think that Cielo was a candidate who died during the tests or during some of the experiments like Real Serph performed on Sera. And to be a Cyber Shaman candidate, I think that it would be necessary to possess some special powers, so I would have thought that there would have atleast been some that were activated during the tests.

As for Meganada, the most likely option is that he's a same deity like Shiva and Vishnu. I believe that there was some mentioning about it when you first see the coccoon that contains Meganada.

And offtopic, what's that avatar from Tritoch? It reminds me off Heero frm Gundam Wing, but it's someone else obviously. What's it from?

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by Enkidu

Spoiler:

I'm actually glad that there wasn't a second Angel fight. I would have thought it to be really lame if you had to kill her with your party. The scene with Gale was brilliant because it was so simple. No big attacks or flashy effects, just Angel stabbing him out of anger and sadness, and Gale looking at her with a caring look in his eyes when he kills her was amazing.

I think that Cielo was a candidate who died during the tests or during some of the experiments like Real Serph performed on Sera. And to be a Cyber Shaman candidate, I think that it would be necessary to possess some special powers, so I would have thought that there would have atleast been some that were activated during the tests.

As for Meganada, the most likely option is that he's a same deity like Shiva and Vishnu. I believe that there was some mentioning about it when you first see the coccoon that contains Meganada.

And offtopic, what's that avatar from Tritoch? It reminds me off Heero frm Gundam Wing, but it's someone else obviously. What's it from?

Spoiler:

This is exactly why it would have been nice to get a good background on Cielo as well. I started off not liking him much, probably because I thought the accent was kinda goofy at first, but since he ended up being one of my best party members in both DDS games I liked him quite a bit after awhile. Maybe to use the Cyber Shaman abilities you have to complete all the tests and such, especially since even Sera had a hard time with it. Plus, it could also have something to do with the Junkyard being Sera's creation.

On a side note, I like your sig. That was one of my favorite scenes in DDS2, because you just know how hopelessly screwed those measely guards are by trying to take on the final boss of the first game.

My avatar is Akito Tenkawa, the main character of Martian Successor Nadesico (credit to AniMechanic for creating the avatar). The series is sort of a parody of Gundam, so it's not surprising he looks similar. I was actually going to use my Argilla avatar again since her toothy bosom weirded people out last time, but the size was too big for the newly lowered byte limit.

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Thanks, although the quality isn't super. I laughed when the guards tried to detain her. "Seems you forgot who created the demon virus".

I almost didn't use Cielo in the first game, but he was a life saviour in the second one, since you where stuck with him for a while. His weakness to status effects could be devestating, but skills to prevent that where cheaper than trying to give a character elemental immunity. He was a lifesaver in a certain battle the second time you visit EGG, thanks to his Ziodyne combined with Elec amp and boost. His accent ticked me off too, but it grew on me.

Jam it back in, in the dark.