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[PC] World of Warcraft
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dagget
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Old Mar 30, 2006, 03:02 PM #176 of 1941
Originally Posted by Talbain
A nerf on paladins wouldn't be that bad of a thing really.

Pre-patch, AV was always dominated by horde. Now I'm convinced that about 100 Alliance rolled pallys to gain level and participate in AV, which is probably the most effective class in that BG. It's frusterating as hell.

There's no fewer than 20 in each one, it's insane.
LOLOL dominated by horde. That's funny. Our server is like a 2:1 Alliance:Horde Ratio. Alliance owns in BGs, it's only until the past few months that the horde have started to win.

Also, as much as I don't realy like paladins in PVP (facing them sucks heh) Paladins need to be left the fuck alone when it comes to nerfing. Every patch there's always some unmentioned nerf in paladins. Same with Prot. Spec warriors. Leave us alone for fuck sake.

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Talbain
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Old Mar 30, 2006, 03:07 PM Local time: Mar 30, 2006, 08:07 PM #177 of 1941
Since I'm still in the 50-59 bracket I know they are. We do very well in all of them, but AV has given us a lot of trouble.

I'm 58 now, and hesistant to get to 60, as I know Alliance are certainly tricked out with epic gear by that point. I'm not looking forward to it, as my guild is not large enough to tackle raid content just yet.

Jam it back in, in the dark.
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Old Mar 30, 2006, 03:26 PM Local time: Mar 30, 2006, 03:26 PM #178 of 1941
Originally Posted by Talbain
A nerf on paladins wouldn't be that bad of a thing really.
Shaman Totems are no longer immune to AOE spells, either. Rumors are circulating that it's an intended change and not a bug.

Paladins won't be the only ones getting the short end of the stick.

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WraithTwo
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Old Mar 30, 2006, 04:43 PM Local time: Mar 30, 2006, 03:43 PM #179 of 1941
Originally Posted by Kostaki
Shaman Totems are no longer immune to AOE spells, either. Rumors are circulating that it's an intended change and not a bug.

Paladins won't be the only ones getting the short end of the stick.
Trust me, there is NO way they intentionally made our totems die to AOE. That would be the biggest nerf ever, I would probably leave.

I like how Shamans are now bugged to all hell. Earthbind now aggros neutral mobs (so a fucking critter can run over and kill the totem), Stormstrike will be wasted if you aren't in range for a melee attack when you hit it and our fucking totems are dying to AOE (In PvE only though). Oh, and they nerfed Flurry so bad that I don't even know why ANYONE would spec Enhancement anymore (It now doesn't proc off Windfury AND Windfury eats it all up, creating REALLY bad synergy between an enhancement Shamans two main abilities).

good fucking job Blizz,

- WraithTwo -

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Xellos
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Old Mar 30, 2006, 08:04 PM #180 of 1941
There's no way they'd do that. That would give the others classes a big advantage when fighting shamans. Having said that, I wouldn't mind if it was intended. They're overpowered as it is.

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WraithTwo
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Old Mar 30, 2006, 08:16 PM Local time: Mar 30, 2006, 07:16 PM #181 of 1941
I hate people that say that without having any real experience AS a Shaman. We are horribly screwed up: One of the slowest lvlers, the most useless raiding class and we are average in group PvP. Yes, we are great at 1on1 PvP, but THATS IT. People see the big bolts, the big heals, and the OMGWTFBBQ WF hits, and seem to forget that Shamans aren't specced 31/31/31 (not that it would matter much anyways, all three trees need serious help).

People ARE starting to wise up that we aren't on the same level they thought we were, but its hard to see that until you've been one.

- WraithTwo -

EDIT: BTW, I said that player AEs aren't affecting the totems, just mob AEs. Still, how would the pallies feel if Rag just AE'd all their buffs away (which are superior even if they had that weakness)?

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Kaelin
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Old Mar 30, 2006, 08:47 PM #182 of 1941
Originally Posted by El Ray Fernando
More or less all of my buddies play first person shooters unfortunately, is it pretty easy to get into and also is the general population on most servers helpful or a bunch of retards?
It is easy to get into, but because it's a Blizzard game you tend to run into immature players a little more often. Although there's always bad apples in any online game, sometimes WoW's can be pretty horrible. I think the population on most servers differs overall in terms of attitude. Usually the concensus(sp?) is that the Alliance has more of the immature people, while the horde tends to have older, and more sensible folks. Both sides of course have their share of good and bad folks though.

If you don't know anyone else who plays it, you then have to try and find the right guild for your playstyle. It can be difficult with so many guilds on a server, and with new ones popping up overnight only to collapse a short while after. Sometimes there is a sticky in your server's realm forum listing the guilds for the server with their web addresses. You can find out a good deal of information by reading a guild's website and forums most of the time. Playing with others from these guilds will also help you get a good feel for them.

Overall, I'd recommend you give the trial a spin to see if you like it. I didn't know anyone on the PvE realm I rerolled on after deciding that PvP realms were not to my taste, and got lucky enough to find a guild I enjoyed being in, and I have met many people who I now count as friends I know online. Everyone's mileage varies however.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

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El Ray Fernando
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Old Mar 30, 2006, 09:21 PM Local time: Mar 31, 2006, 03:21 AM #183 of 1941
Originally Posted by Kaelin
It is easy to get into, but because it's a Blizzard game you tend to run into immature players a little more often. Although there's always bad apples in any online game, sometimes WoW's can be pretty horrible. I think the population on most servers differs overall in terms of attitude. Usually the concensus(sp?) is that the Alliance has more of the immature people, while the horde tends to have older, and more sensible folks. Both sides of course have their share of good and bad folks though.

If you don't know anyone else who plays it, you then have to try and find the right guild for your playstyle. It can be difficult with so many guilds on a server, and with new ones popping up overnight only to collapse a short while after. Sometimes there is a sticky in your server's realm forum listing the guilds for the server with their web addresses. You can find out a good deal of information by reading a guild's website and forums most of the time. Playing with others from these guilds will also help you get a good feel for them.

Overall, I'd recommend you give the trial a spin to see if you like it. I didn't know anyone on the PvE realm I rerolled on after deciding that PvP realms were not to my taste, and got lucky enough to find a guild I enjoyed being in, and I have met many people who I now count as friends I know online. Everyone's mileage varies however.
I think I'll go pick up a copy tomorrow, should I start on a more well established high population server or a low population one?

FELIPE NO
WraithTwo
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Old Mar 30, 2006, 09:53 PM Local time: Mar 30, 2006, 08:53 PM #184 of 1941
I started on a low pop server, but I suggest you go high. You'll have an easier time finding groups, and most importantly, you'll most likely be dealing with a more stable economy.

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dagget
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Old Mar 31, 2006, 01:00 PM #185 of 1941
Strat/Scholo post 1.10:

WORTHLESS. Reports from people I know are saying Strat (at least Undead, don't know about Live) now needs to be completely re-learned on how to go through. 45 minute Baron runs are giving people problems who have done it multiple times pre 1.10 (some even fully decked out in MC/BWL gear) and are being called "impossible". The intended effect was for them to remove some mobs leading up to Baron so the 45 minute limit can be made. Also, if you die, you lose the quest buff you get to complete it.

Scholo has been completely nerfed in terms of drops. The 6 side bosses in the classroom gauntlet are lucky to drop a dark rune, if that. Even if the instances were beefed up instead of nerfed down for quests, the loot is ridiculous in scholo and makes it not worth going in anymore. So much for one of my 3 favorite instances. :\

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Masanda
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Old Mar 31, 2006, 01:24 PM Local time: Mar 31, 2006, 12:24 PM #186 of 1941
Yeah, we had MANY dark runes drop in Scholo yesterday. Necropile Robe dropped and that was about it from those sub-bosses.

Gandling did drop http://www.thottbot.com/?i=53190 for my warlock, though!

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WraithTwo
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Old Mar 31, 2006, 01:28 PM Local time: Mar 31, 2006, 12:28 PM #187 of 1941
Okay, about the Shamans totems dying to AE:

The community THOUGHT that it was only PvE AEs doing it, but now we've found that Paladins Consecrate are destroying them. There may still be more, not sure. Of course, Bliz hasn't responded to ANY of these numerous bugs yet, even to confirm which are bugs.

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Kaelin
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Old Mar 31, 2006, 04:03 PM #188 of 1941
Originally Posted by El Ray Fernando
I think I'll go pick up a copy tomorrow, should I start on a more well established high population server or a low population one?
It's personal preference for the most part. Higher pop servers have a better economy so you can make money faster on the AH, more players for groups, and well established guilds. However they also can have server queues at peak times in the evenings, as well as you may not be able to get into a guild right away because all of the same well established guilds aren't looking for any newer people. There is always the possibility of joining a newer guild on the server though.

Newer and lower pop servers don't have as good of an economy, meaning you can't make money as fast off the AH, however if you join a new server on its opening day, you are on the same page as everyone else's characters on that realm. This allows you to "grow up" with the server so to speak. If you roll one of the more popular classes i.e. hunter, rogue, etc. it can be a good opportunity to learn that class and possibly get into a good guild much easier since guilds are less picky when the server is newer.

Whatever you choose, make sure you end up on a server that's in or very near your timezone if at all possible. Unfortunatley Blizzard decided to lamely take away the timezone markings on the servers, so you have to create a character, log in as that character, and then check the time of the server by mousing over the sun/moon icon in the upper right hand corner. It's time will allow you to determine where the server is located.

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Zio
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Old Mar 31, 2006, 06:17 PM Local time: Mar 31, 2006, 06:17 PM #189 of 1941
O.o; I thought it said on the patch notes that shammy totems can't be targeted by AOE...

I know my blade flurry always targeted shammy totems when I dueled them...

Trust me Shammies aren't as powerful as people think and I've played alliance and as well dueled them with my rogue... You just have to be smarter.

And pallies need to be hit with a nerf bat, sorry but they are the only class besides perhaps hunters that give me trouble in PVP but that is just cause I hate pallies and I'm a horde player. :X

About BGs...

I used to do pugs a lot ofr horde side(alliance side, you can't really I've seen.). And after awhile people were like ok, camp here, kill them and etc. I was like, these games aren't about who has the most death blows, HKs and etc. It's about WINNING. I think you get more of a bonus for honor and rep if you actually WIN the BG. Now I only do guild runs.

I like high - full population mainly cause I love the econ and plus there always people to get into instances and so much more. :X

I was speaking idiomatically.
Originally Posted by Zio
Heh, heh, heh. Now, now. That's the expression I want to see! A face filled with pain and anguish, begging fearfully for help, a face quivering with anger! Go, on! Get angry! Suffer! Be sad! That would truly be the ultimate offering to me and my great god!
Kostaki
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Old Mar 31, 2006, 07:01 PM Local time: Mar 31, 2006, 07:01 PM #190 of 1941
Originally Posted by Zio
And pallies need to be hit with a nerf bat, sorry but they are the only class besides perhaps hunters that give me trouble in PVP but that is just cause I hate pallies and I'm a horde player. :X
I honestly hope the Shaman totem AOE issue is a bug, because I already have an incredibly easy time strategizing against and destroying Shaman players. Giving me the option to toss a stick of dynamite or a grenade along with my consecration to end totem menaces would certainly not give them any further chance to survive.

Anyone with an ounce of strategical know-how would be able to feint using a worthless totem to draw a quick reflex consecration, then run back and pop the real thing right outside of consecration's perimeter. I don't hate Shaman players in the least, they have several tools at their discretion to make my life harder, but most PVP in this game comes down to psychology, being able to fake and feint your way to make your opponent make a mistake.

The nerf bat in general is a "what goes around, comes around" type thing. Never wish a nerf upon anyone unless you're ready to take one yourself.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?
Xellos
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Old Mar 31, 2006, 09:03 PM #191 of 1941
I don't see why your complaining. I played a 60 shaman, both as elemental and enhancement, and I see no reason to whine so much. About the only thing I didn't like was getting out of mana after like 2 fights. I only did pvp though, so I have no idea if they're useful in raids or not.

That put aside, have you guys had some of those new patterns yet?

We got that plate breastplate pattern today in AQ40. All I can say is..nerf?

Thick Obsidian Breastplate

No other patterns so far. I want those plate leggings to drop...they're pretty insane for a fury warrior.

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dagget
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Old Mar 31, 2006, 09:34 PM #192 of 1941
Titanic legs plans fell on Thunderhorn already. Saw them in the AH in org for 500g bid (no buyout). Of course because I went Axesmith, I'm no longer needed unless someone wants an Arcanite Reaper. No new Axesmith plans either, which sorat make me sad.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

WraithTwo
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Old Mar 31, 2006, 10:43 PM Local time: Mar 31, 2006, 09:43 PM #193 of 1941
Originally Posted by Xellos
I don't see why your complaining. I played a 60 shaman, both as elemental and enhancement, and I see no reason to whine so much. About the only thing I didn't like was getting out of mana after like 2 fights. I only did pvp though, so I have no idea if they're useful in raids or not.

That put aside, have you guys had some of those new patterns yet?

We got that plate breastplate pattern today in AQ40. All I can say is..nerf?

Thick Obsidian Breastplate

No other patterns so far. I want those plate leggings to drop...they're pretty insane for a fury warrior.
Thats EXACTLY why you were happy, you only PvP'd. Shamans hold their own in group PvP and rock in solo PvP. Thats not where the complaints lie. The fact is that a smart Paladin is every bit as useful in group PvP as the Shaman, and is infinitely MORE useful in group PvE (which happens to the the largest portion of this games content).

Their both horrible in solo PvE, though, and I don't really know much about Paladin solo PvP other than the fact that they are capable of boring people to death or just Bubble hearthing, so I'm not gonna comment on that.

Jam it back in, in the dark.
Kostaki
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Old Mar 31, 2006, 10:58 PM Local time: Mar 31, 2006, 10:58 PM #194 of 1941
I know that you need to give Shaman more credit with solo PVP, because I've played against some incredibly good Shaman players who know what to do in solo PVP.

This whole "bubble/hearth" stigma needs to die, and fast. If an entire group of horde comes at me and I know I have no chance to win and I've been discovered, I will use that tactic. Several other classes have methods of escaping when they need to flee, and we do not. Alternatively, if I feel like I have a slight chance to win or the fight is on equal terms, I will remain and if I die then I die.

We have heavy endurance that ties into our game mechanics, because we don't have effective DPS. If that "bores" you then either learn to break through the endurance, or don't bother to fight with us.

There's nowhere I can't reach.
Zio
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Old Mar 31, 2006, 11:45 PM Local time: Mar 31, 2006, 11:45 PM #195 of 1941
Originally Posted by Kostaki
I honestly hope the Shaman totem AOE issue is a bug, because I already have an incredibly easy time strategizing against and destroying Shaman players. Giving me the option to toss a stick of dynamite or a grenade along with my consecration to end totem menaces would certainly not give them any further chance to survive.

Anyone with an ounce of strategical know-how would be able to feint using a worthless totem to draw a quick reflex consecration, then run back and pop the real thing right outside of consecration's perimeter. I don't hate Shaman players in the least, they have several tools at their discretion to make my life harder, but most PVP in this game comes down to psychology, being able to fake and feint your way to make your opponent make a mistake.

The nerf bat in general is a "what goes around, comes around" type thing. Never wish a nerf upon anyone unless you're ready to take one yourself.
I never had a nerf really effect me. Remember my rogue is COMBAT SPEC. Anything that affected dagger rogues a lot, did not affect me almost in little to no way at all. Actually, the speed nerf or wahtever they did for the multipler actually buffed me cause most of my stuff was usually FASTER then what they made it.

Trust me, I'm ready to take any nerf but most nerfs affect dagger rogues and I aint a dagger rogue. It just makes me mad that I have to blow like all my cooldowns just to beat a pally and I always love popping evasion and getting hammered then really let them have it with adren rush once I get out of it.

Shammies aren't anything to my locks/rogue set up, I dont' know i just don't feel challanged unless the other person actually KNOWS what they are doing. Cause I tend to spam searing pain till they earth me then I let loose with all my shadow then.

And my rogue kill totems so they sit there as they keep trying ot lay them for 15 secs and it really helps me a lot and usually within those 15 secs I do so much damage their done for no matter what they do and if I have to, I blind them get rid of thier earthbind totem and keep on going.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.
Originally Posted by Zio
Heh, heh, heh. Now, now. That's the expression I want to see! A face filled with pain and anguish, begging fearfully for help, a face quivering with anger! Go, on! Get angry! Suffer! Be sad! That would truly be the ultimate offering to me and my great god!
Kostaki
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Old Apr 1, 2006, 12:02 AM Local time: Apr 1, 2006, 12:02 AM #196 of 1941
Originally Posted by Zio
I dont' know i just don't feel challanged unless the other person actually KNOWS what they are doing.
This is pretty much the case for most all PVP, and it gets tiring when you come across a horrible player that screams nerf whenever they're soundly defeated against a class because they don't know what they're doing. I've had certain Rogues molest me the same way that I can murder some Rogues. The same with just about any class that properly takes advantage of what they have.

I imagine it's just as shameful for Paladins to abuse shield/hearth in PVP combat as it is Rogues using Vanish in the same combat, pending you're about to lose a legitimate fight that you originally had a chance of winning. Be it a Paladin or a Rogue, if you lose legitimately, take the death. That's the way I've always seen things.

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WraithTwo
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Old Apr 1, 2006, 02:35 AM Local time: Apr 1, 2006, 01:35 AM #197 of 1941
Hey no offense meant Kostaki, I have no ill feelings towards the pally, or his bubble. If anything, I feel more for the pallys than anyone else (besides shaman). You guys have to go through a lot of the stupid crap that us shamans do, because one side of the fence wants you nerfed into the ground mercilessly for no other reason than you aren't on their side.

BTW, I said that Shaman rock in solo PvP, so I'm not sure where more credit is due. Shaman's are a true jack of nothing, master of duels...

Also, Zio, I hope that we aren't much competition for your Lock/Rogue, those are our two worst matches .

How ya doing, buddy?
Zio
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Old Apr 1, 2006, 03:48 AM Local time: Apr 1, 2006, 03:48 AM #198 of 1941
Quote:
This is pretty much the case for most all PVP, and it gets tiring when you come across a horrible player that screams nerf whenever they're soundly defeated against a class because they don't know what they're doing. I've had certain Rogues molest me the same way that I can murder some Rogues. The same with just about any class that properly takes advantage of what they have.

I imagine it's just as shameful for Paladins to abuse shield/hearth in PVP combat as it is Rogues using Vanish in the same combat, pending you're about to lose a legitimate fight that you originally had a chance of winning. Be it a Paladin or a Rogue, if you lose legitimately, take the death. That's the way I've always seen things.
The only time I see a pally shield and hearth is if it's someone who is an asian farmer... or is a few levels below me... or as soon as I stun them they do it so they can get out cause they don't want to loose. Cause I have a few pallies on my server who see me and get away.

And I vanish and run because I CAN. Rather or not it's pathetic or shameful or anything. The only time I will die is if I can't get away.

Wraith... Windfury + sword spec + blade flurry = happy me.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?
Originally Posted by Zio
Heh, heh, heh. Now, now. That's the expression I want to see! A face filled with pain and anguish, begging fearfully for help, a face quivering with anger! Go, on! Get angry! Suffer! Be sad! That would truly be the ultimate offering to me and my great god!
khan0plinger
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Old Apr 1, 2006, 03:59 AM #199 of 1941
I dont see whats wrong with using the shield/hearth. I tend to do it if I see that im mismatched or that im about to be ganked to holy hell. If im fighting someone in pvp , and i start to lose...shield/mana pot/heal works well..or if im really low...lay on hands. It basically gives you an almost fresh start. Ive taken down just about every class, but also have lost to every class.

I too find it annoying that people yell about wanting <said class> to be nerfed. It seems they want them all nerfed except their own. You can beat any class, its just a matter of how you play.

FELIPE NO
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Old Apr 1, 2006, 02:58 PM #200 of 1941
Funny story. A high end raiding guild that's actually casual wants me to venture into MC with them next weekend. I didn't know I was enlisted until I logged on Ug earlier. Should prove interesting. They don't even require some of the shit that the guild I've been running with requires. Supposed to be some kind of tryout. Who knows what will happen. Tonight's my last night running with the people I have been. Since their raiding style is changing drastically next week. I hope things go smooth, if not I'm in for a long night.

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