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Thoughts on racism
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DarkLink2135
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Old Jun 19, 2006, 11:31 PM #51 of 215
Originally Posted by Devo
You mean pretty much ignore anyone who isn't of European/Caucasian male descent like we currently do.
You have be the most fucking stupid person I have ever met in my life. I'm not even going to give you the dignity of responding to your shit anymore. Way to completely miss the point.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

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Old Jun 19, 2006, 11:31 PM #52 of 215
Originally Posted by kat
If you want to fucking talk proportions, PROPORTIONALLY men and women are ~50/~50 in this nation. Why are American history textbooks like 99% about men?

Yeah I'm sure men are far more important and do a lot more shit than women.
Traditionally, men have written textbooks.

Then again, for awhile, any accomplishments that women made probably weren't recorded at all, so they're likely not to be reflected in today's textbooks.

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Old Jun 19, 2006, 11:32 PM #53 of 215
Originally Posted by knkwzrd
The idea in teaching these is that they were precursors to the United States. An important part of understanding the history of any nation is knowing the things that caused that nation to come about. You certainly aren't arguing against learning about European colonial life, but I'll be damned if that wasn't pre 1776.
American Colonial life is part of what caused our nation to come about. It existed HERE. In MAINLAND America. A fairly large part of the whole deal, but that's also something I think we spend a bit too much time studying.

I was speaking idiomatically.

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Old Jun 19, 2006, 11:32 PM Local time: Jun 19, 2006, 09:32 PM #54 of 215
Originally Posted by knkwzrd
I don't think you can realistically assume this. The master will always feel superior to the slave. The fact is, they found a whole shitload of people that they could take advantage of, and they did it. If Africans had white skin, it wouldn't have made the slightest difference.
Well, historically, the effort to differentiate the black slave came later. So one could say the modern understanding of the race differences is rather a result of the use of skin color as a marker in which to keep specific group under control, rather then the other way around. Although not all anthropologist would agree with that assertion. Others believe the root of this concept come earlier.

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Old Jun 19, 2006, 11:34 PM Local time: Jun 19, 2006, 10:34 PM #55 of 215
Originally Posted by kat
The justification for slavery was that whites in general were superior to blacks, that they were a "lesser" breed of people, barely man and therefore, only suitable for being controlled by whites.
No, the justification for slavery was "we need cheap labor". It's just that, since most Africans at that point didn't speak English, and they didn't have guns, you're not going to get any bitching about human rights.

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Old Jun 19, 2006, 11:34 PM #56 of 215
Originally Posted by DarkLink2135
--------

Look, my whole point was that we are putting far too much emphasis on parts of American history that just WERE NOT important enough to justify the amount of time we spend on them.
You don't even know history, who are you to say what's important and what's not? you think some religious pissing contest in England is actually important to American history. I mean christ.

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Sure the native americans were cool, it's neat to learn about their customs, government, etc - but that has little bearing on the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, which didn't really exist until the Declaration of Independance,
Then there's no need for European history at all, since we're teaching a vaccuum.

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and the events leading up to that separation.
Now you're just cherrypicking, eskimo.

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Same with African History. There isn't any point. African History doesn't really meld at all with US History until the slave trade, thus, there isn't any need to talk about it in an American History class.
America started on the backs of slaves.

Still want you to tell me what you know about African history and culture. Go ahead and be as lengthy as you want. Doublespace if it makes you feel better.

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DarkLink2135
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Old Jun 19, 2006, 11:34 PM #57 of 215
Originally Posted by kat
If you want to fucking talk proportions, PROPORTIONALLY men and women are ~50/~50 in this nation. Why are American history textbooks like 99% about men?

Yeah I'm sure men are far more important and do a lot more shit than women.
Accomplishments by women have been largely ignored in the past, or they took on the name of a man so they could recieve those accomplishments. Part of it is that we just don't know how much women did.

But also, by raw numbers, men have done a lot more in American History. That's not to deny the importance of women in American History, that's just simple fact. Men were just in better positions to do so because of the low position of women at that time in history.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

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Old Jun 19, 2006, 11:35 PM Local time: Jun 19, 2006, 09:35 PM #58 of 215
Originally Posted by Snowknight
Traditionally, men have written textbooks.

Then again, for awhile, any accomplishments that women made probably weren't recorded at all, so they're likely not to be reflected in today's textbooks.
Which proves my point. White men write the textbooks that are largely about white men.

And plenty of accomplishments that women did were recorded, most just don't know about it because they keep reading white man books. Just like there have been many different accomplishment by different races.

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Old Jun 19, 2006, 11:36 PM #59 of 215
Originally Posted by DarkLink2135
What the FUCK are you talking about.

I never said that.

I don't think that.
You brought up car worship as a viable cultural difference between whites and hispanics (and blacks (thx Alice)) that could adversely affect relationships. As in, you don't think any white people drive H2s.

Tell me about Africa, please.

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Old Jun 19, 2006, 11:36 PM #60 of 215
Originally Posted by Devo
It was an example actually of African culture influencing "American culture", I guess you're too busy trolling to realize it.
Explain why the hell African culture needs to have an in-depth explanation in an American History class.

West African culture? Sure, plays a major part in a lot of American culture.

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Old Jun 19, 2006, 11:41 PM #61 of 215
Originally Posted by DarkLink2135
I'm not talking about West African culture. I'm talking about AFRICAN culture, you dumbfuck. As in, the continent of AFRICA. West African culture has much to do with American History. AFRICAN culture does not have much to do with American History.
YOU ARE EDUCATED RETARDED.

I was speaking idiomatically.
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Old Jun 19, 2006, 11:41 PM Local time: Jun 19, 2006, 09:41 PM #62 of 215
Originally Posted by DarkLink2135
Accomplishments by women have been largely ignored in the past, or they took on the name of a man so they could recieve those accomplishments. Part of it is that we just don't know how much women did.

But also, by raw numbers, men have done a lot more in American History. That's not to deny the importance of women in American History, that's just simple fact. Men were just in better positions to do so because of the low position of women at that time in history.
So you're a racist AND a sexist. How do the girls keep their hands off you.

Ok, let's assume that men have done more in the past. But you said yourself that women were important in American history yet are hardly ever mentioned in the textbooks. Are their efforts somehow less important than the ones by their male counterparts? American history textbooks go up well into the later 20th century, which women have already begun to take a larger part in history yet their mentions in the text are still ridiculously low.

It's because of the chauvinistic caucasian perspective of history that modern textbooks display that is the reason behind it.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?
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Old Jun 19, 2006, 11:44 PM #63 of 215
Originally Posted by a lurker
You don't even know history, who are you to say what's important and what's not? you think some religious pissing contest in England is actually important to American history. I mean christ.
What the hell does this have to do with anything?

What's important is what helped this nation arise to the point where it is today. And I'm sorry, but black culture is not as major of a part of that as what you want to think it is. Where our nation started was with a disagreement with england over religous rights. Pilgrims came here, founded a colony, eventually got pissed off at england, won our independance. In short. Obviously there's a shitload more in between there, but I'm going to assume you hopefully know all that and that I don't need to repeat 100 years of history.

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Then there's no need for European history at all, since we're teaching a vaccuum.
Native Americans are part of America. Westward expansion? Interactions with the first settlers? European history which needs to be known to explain certain actions by Americans needs to be a part of curriculum. I'm with you (at least I think I am) though on saying that we do place too much emphasis on pre-american history.


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Now you're just cherrypicking, eskimo.
No. How on earth are you going understand the need for the Declaration of Independence if you don't know about the tensions beforehand? That's very much a part of how America arose.

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America started on the backs of slaves.
America started with the deaths of militiamen in the revolutionary war. Regardless, I hope you don't honestly think I think we shouldn't learn about slavery in American history classes. It's a large part of what America was, and what some people seem to want to keep it as today.

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Still want you to tell me what you know about African history and culture. Go ahead and be as lengthy as you want. Doublespace if it makes you feel better.
Read a fucking book if you want to know about it.

I know African history as it pertains to America. I don't give a shit about how Kenya arose, it has nothing to do with America.

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Old Jun 19, 2006, 11:46 PM #64 of 215
Originally Posted by a lurker
YOU ARE EDUCATED RETARDED.
And you have no fucking brains.

Please, explain to me why the hell I need to spend a week learning about AFRICAN history in an AMERICAN history class.

West African culture is an entirely different story. It is something that EXISTED IN AMERICA. Something with a DIRECT effect on American culture.

Learn the difference between the two.

Originally Posted by Yamamanama
You'll be surprised about how much Africa and America have to do with each other. Especially in the later half of the 20th century.
Definitely so. But I'm talking about early American history .

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Old Jun 19, 2006, 11:49 PM #65 of 215
Originally Posted by kat
It's because of the chauvinistic caucasian perspective of history that modern textbooks display that is the reason behind it.
How, exactly, do we then go about fixing it? The problem with encompassing everything required to accurately--if such is even possible--teach American history comes in its massive scope: how can all of that--plus anything that's already taught, minus any revisions for accuracy's sake--be fit into current course time? Or, are students to spend 75% of their time taking history classes... which really wouldn't be all that bad.

How ya doing, buddy?
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Old Jun 19, 2006, 11:49 PM #66 of 215
Originally Posted by kat
So you're a racist AND a sexist. How do the girls keep their hands off you.
I'm racist and sexist simply for acknowledging the FACT that men and europeans play a larger part in American history than women or minorities?

Get a dictionary. Look up racist. Look up sexist.

Racism and Sexism are actively discriminating against people simply because of their race and sex, respectively.

Realizing that men and europeans proportionately have a larger role in our history, and wanting our history classes as a result to spend an equally proportionate time learning about this isn't sexist or racist.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

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Old Jun 19, 2006, 11:50 PM Local time: Jun 19, 2006, 09:50 PM #67 of 215
Originally Posted by knkwzrd
No, the justification for slavery was "we need cheap labor". It's just that, since most Africans at that point didn't speak English, and they didn't have guns, you're not going to get any bitching about human rights.
At least read the post, I was talking about AFTER THE FACT. African importation for slavery started for we need cheap labor and Africa was a convenient human source but after generations and generations of slave culture in America, the justification for keeping THEN to keep the slave culture alive and well was predominately RACE. And greed but they really touted the race thing because it appealed to the hearts and minds of fellow racists.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.
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Old Jun 19, 2006, 11:51 PM #68 of 215
Originally Posted by Devo
Do you even know the difference between "America" and "the United States"? I'll give you a hint, it has nothing to do with spelling.
I use the words interchangably. God forbid I actually do something the rest of the fucking country does.

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Old Jun 19, 2006, 11:52 PM #69 of 215
Originally Posted by DarkLink2135
What the hell does this have to do with anything?

What's important is what helped this nation arise to the point where it is today. And I'm sorry, but black culture is not as major of a part of that as what you want to think it is. Where our nation started was with a disagreement with england over religous rights. Pilgrims came here, founded a colony, eventually got pissed off at england, won our independance. In short. Obviously there's a shitload more in between there, but I'm going to assume you hopefully know all that and that I don't need to repeat 100 years of history.
If you believe that cock and bull about pilgrims, you don't know a damn thing about history.

Do you honestly think that a whole new landmass ripe for the taking wouldn't attract other kinds of visitors, just a cult of people who hate sex and niggers? I mean christ.

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No. How on earth are you going understand the need for the Declaration of Independence if you don't know about the tensions beforehand? That's very much a part of how America arose.
But you don't want us teaching about the settlers before whitey, the tensions between them and the europeans; you don't want us teaching about the slave trade outside of America and how it impacted America. I don't know why you're so against education, maybe it takes funding away from auto class (lol whitey car worship).

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America started with the deaths of militiamen in the revolutionary war.
America existed before those men were a twinkle in their fathers' eyes.

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Read a fucking book if you want to know about it.

I know African history as it pertains to America. I don't give a shit about how Kenya arose, it has nothing to do with America.
So I'm justified in assuming you know fuck-all about African history? No wonder you think it's not important in understanding American history or colonial politics.

Okay, honestly, listen to me here: America was a colonized continent, right? And so was Africa during the same time frame. DO YOU THINK THERE MIGHT BE POSSIBLY SOME RELEVANT PARALELLS BETWEEN TWO COLONIZED AND OPPRESSED CONTINENTS DURING THE SAME ERA OF TIME POSSIBLY?

No, you don't, because you're stupid and you're racist. Go buy a Dodge Ram.

Double Post:
Originally Posted by DarkLink2135
West African culture is an entirely different story. It is something that EXISTED IN AMERICA. Something with a DIRECT effect on American culture.
Can you tell me about West Africa; the culture, the history, the location?

I was speaking idiomatically.

Last edited by Sarag; Jun 19, 2006 at 11:53 PM. Reason: Automerged additional post.
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Old Jun 19, 2006, 11:55 PM #70 of 215
Originally Posted by DarkLink2135
I'm racist and sexist simply for acknowledging the FACT that men and europeans play a larger part in American history than women or minorities?
YOu can't be serious! You can't. Are you telling me that slavery and the pressures (tensions) between whites and blacks TO THIS VERY DAY have nothing on religious hissy fits in England back in the early 18th century?

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?
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Old Jun 20, 2006, 12:04 AM #71 of 215
Originally Posted by DarkLink2135
West African culture is an entirely different story. It is something that EXISTED IN AMERICA. Something with a DIRECT effect on American culture.


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Old Jun 20, 2006, 12:05 AM #72 of 215
Originally Posted by a lurker
If you believe that cock and bull about pilgrims, you don't know a damn thing about history.

Do you honestly think that a whole new landmass ripe for the taking wouldn't attract other kinds of visitors, just a cult of people who hate sex and niggers? I mean christ.
The spanish and the french among others.

What became political America started with that colony, which is why it is given focus. The disagreements with those Puritans and England basically just grew until the Revolutionary war erupted.



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But you don't want us teaching about the settlers before whitey, the tensions between them and the europeans; you don't want us teaching about the slave trade outside of America and how it impacted America. I don't know why you're so against education, maybe it takes funding away from auto class (lol whitey car worship).
You haven't been reading any of my posts.

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America existed before those men were a twinkle in their fathers' eyes.
I'm talking about political America. America as a country. I assume you just mean the land.

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So I'm justified in assuming you know fuck-all about African history? No wonder you think it's not important in understanding American history or colonial politics.
You are missing the point. The point there is no point in learning about how a bunch of fucking tribes in Africa killed eachother in why in an American history course.

Quote:
Okay, honestly, listen to me here: America was a colonized continent, right? And so was Africa during the same time frame. DO YOU THINK THERE MIGHT BE POSSIBLY SOME RELEVANT PARALELLS BETWEEN TWO COLONIZED AND OPPRESSED CONTINENTS DURING THE SAME ERA OF TIME POSSIBLY?
Gee, you think that just might be the SLAVE TRADE? Something I've repeatedly emphasized should be taught in American History courses? Or have you been too busy blowing your top to read what I've been saying for the past hour?

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No, you don't, because you're stupid and you're a realist.
Fixed.

Quote:
Can you tell me about West Africa; the culture, the history, the location?
Africans were brought here direct from Africa due to the slave trade. Slave traders stripped most of their cultural identity from them basically causing them to have to re-create their own unique culture. Most of this developed in the deep south. A different African-American culture developed in the North due to different ideals, beliefs, practices, etc, even after the conclusion of the civil war when freed slaves migrated to the North.

Fuck this. I'm not here to give you a history lesson. What do you want me to say, that they are all a bunch of fucking niggers with huge lower lips that like spicy cajun food and fried chicken? Would that satisfy you? Would that make you more secure, to think that I'm a racist?

Whatever makes you happy.

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Old Jun 20, 2006, 12:07 AM Local time: Jun 19, 2006, 10:07 PM #73 of 215
Originally Posted by BigHairyFeet
No, I think it's a fair assumption to make. Men were in positions of power throughout society, and there were not very many women who had the power to create change in society through politics or policy. What is so hard to accept about that? That's the way it was then, this is the way it is now. Times change.

2084: Women take over the fucking planet and rewrite history to place feminism at the forefront of it all. Get ready for it.
Quote:
American history textbooks go up well into the later 20th century, which women have already begun to take a larger part in history yet their mentions in the text are still ridiculously low.
The feminist movement has at most a paragraph in most texts. Only Susan B Anthony is mentioned because she's on a coin, while other figures aren't even acknowledged and women's suffrage is reduced to several sentences at best. Also women's important role in many of wars and many important women politicians and other public figures are hardly mentioned.

And yet you have these huge chapters on bad meat practices when I'd argue that women's rights would be a much more important topic for the ~50% of students that are girls that are reading it.

Originally Posted by DarkLink2135
Realizing that men and europeans proportionately have a larger role in our history, and wanting our history classes as a result to spend an equally proportionate time learning about this isn't sexist or racist.
You said yourself that women had an important role in American history, why aren't they portrayed more then? Instead they are barely mentioned and the instances they are, it's only a sentence or two.

The fact that you stubbornly insist that men and europeans have a larger role in history shows your innate ignorance on history as truth. You are lead to believe that history, or the history that is important anyways, is largely male and caucasian and you don't question it. History is ALWAYS about questioning what is given to us, do you really believe those textbooks you read are the absolute truth? Because history is not just one story from a couple very exclusive people, first hand sources, second hand, an unbiased view (because what we are reading IS biased), I'm sure you'd get a much broader and larger ranged and eventually, a history that is much closer to the real fact.

But for girls reading the textbooks, they are lead to believe that women aren't important because they haven't been in history. That's the real underlying issue, the sort of subtle inferiority you are giving the minorities and women because they don't see their own portrayed in what they are reading, in the history they are given. But it's so far from the truth because minorites and women HAVE been important but they just aren't accurately portrayed.

Jam it back in, in the dark.
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Old Jun 20, 2006, 12:09 AM #74 of 215
Originally Posted by a lurker
Apologies. For some reason I heard West Africa and made a completely illogical leap to the southern united states. Late night brain farts =/.

If you are learning about American history, in a standard 1 year high school course, all you really need to know about West Africa is that that is primarily where we got our slave labor from.

If we are talking about a college course for a history major, maybe a little more knowledge would be called for.

I was under the impression we were just talking about basic American history.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

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Old Jun 20, 2006, 12:10 AM Local time: Jun 19, 2006, 10:10 PM #75 of 215
Originally Posted by DarkLink2135

If we are talking about a college course for a history major, maybe a little more knowledge would be called for.

I was under the impression we were just talking about basic American history.
How old are you son?

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