Losing belief

I'd had my doubts before, but one time something - on Christmas Eve, of all nights - caused me to finally lose my faith.

I went up to bed, a little kid, awaiting the next day. My bed was right next to a vent, from which I could here the living room downstairs. I heard "OK, lets do it!" from my mom, and then a ruffle of boxes and presents being moved. That was when I decided Santa was not real.


Just my personal opinion; please don't get offended. =)

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Originally Posted by How Unfortunate

I'd had my doubts before, but one time something - on Christmas Eve, of all nights - caused me to finally lose my faith.

I went up to bed, a little kid, awaiting the next day. My bed was right next to a vent, from which I could here the living room downstairs. I heard "OK, lets do it!" from my mom, and then a ruffle of boxes and presents being moved. That was when I decided Santa was not real.


Just my personal opinion; please don't get offended. =)

So... because Santa isn't real you don't believe in god?

I'm not a man of faith, but some of these reasons people are giving just seem silly. It would be like me going "God hasn't dropped a woman in my lap so I can live happily ever after. He must be fake!"

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

People give pretty stupid-ass reasons for believing in God, too. Works both ways, I suppose.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

It was a longer process for me but thinking back on it going to church was actually the trigger than got most of it started.

I also was raised Catholic and went to CCD like many others. I remember finding the classes pretty interesting but then we starting to learn the prayers and were to attend our first mass. I'd never been to church before as my parents were not very devoted Catholics and thus stuck me in CCD in hopes that I would be a better one.

Even though I was like 10 years old I vividly remember the experience. I remember sitting there thinking that something wasn't right as I watched the people stand up, look forward, recite a prayer, and sit down in unison. The robotic nature of Mass really stuck with me and from there I really started to question religion. As I grew older I pretty much developed the idea of religion as being nothing but a necessary farce used to justify morality and order in society. But I've seen strong religious beliefs help a person get through the worse time of their life so I can see the value in it. But for me personally, I can't help but quietly smile to myself as I watch the greatest brainwashing scheme ever conceived work its way into so many lives.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Sassafrass

What did you expect to happen if you didn't hit back? God to magically come down and put a gold star on your chest for the day?

But I thought he was an ex-christian, not a jew.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Quote:

What did you expect to happen if you didn't hit back? God to magically come down and put a gold star on your chest for the day?

No, what I'm saying is, I believed in "Don't hit the other cheek" and just gave up because I knew nothing was going to happen. Yeah, it was my fault for not hitting back, but also my fault for believing NOT TO in the first place.

How ya doing, buddy?

I stopped going to church right as I hit high school. During that time period, I was more apathetic about religion than anything. Around senior year, I started to question about my belief in god and came to the realization that there possibly might not be a god. I became an agnostic. By the time college rolled around, I became an atheist and went into more in-depth research and these are the conclusions I came to:

• Christianity bases its belief system on preceding ones (Greek gods, Zoroaster, paganism, etc...)
  
• The Bible is an archaic, irrelevant book based on metaphors and tall tales.
  
• The concept of "god" is merely used as a crutch and as an imaginary friend to provide comfort and strength in times of need.
  
• Religion is a form of social control.
  
• Religious beliefs generally force you to deny human instinct and things that come naturally to us (i.e. sex before marriage, masturbation, foul language, critical thinking, and irony. Fundamentalism breeds no irony.)

I can think of some other things later.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

That you disagree with something does nothing to discredit its relevancy.

Also: Speaking ill of all things religion helps no one and only serves to make you look like a misinformed college freshman newly enlightened by his new-found freedom and copious quantities of dank-as-fuck 'dro.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

I stopped being religious around high school when we stopped going to church. After High School I just stopped believing in God as a natural result of rational thinking, no big deal really.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Poopsie

No, what I'm saying is, I believed in "Don't hit the other cheek" and just gave up because I knew nothing was going to happen. Yeah, it was my fault for not hitting back, but also my fault for believing NOT TO in the first place.

That's... um. Not the actual text, but alright. I suppose actually knowing what the Bible says doesn't really factor into a LOT of Christians' point of view I guess. Funny how that works.

(It's "Ye have heard that it hath been said, an eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, that ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also. And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away." Matthew 5:38, King James Bible)

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Capo

Also: Speaking ill of all things religion helps no one and only serves to make you look like a misinformed college freshman newly enlightened by his new-found freedom and copious quantities of dank-as-fuck 'dro.

If I stated that ALL aspects of religion are irrelevant, then I apologize.

That being said, I think aspects of Christianity and Buddhism can be beneficial in ones life, however other aspects can be repulsive.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

I find it interesting that I am completely a non-believer, never really believed in anything, and yet what seems unlike the rest of you, I really, really wish I could believe in God.

I was raised Jewish, but apparently not as strict as Capo. It was Reform Judaism crap, so we focused more on Hanukkah parties than keeping the Sabbath. Maybe it was because of this lukewarm approach to religion that I've always envied belief, in a sort of way. I mean, I don't exactly want to start walking around like a Hasid, but I would like the obvious amount of certainty and happiness that religion would bring. It doesn't have to be white-bread, upper-middle class Evangelical Christianity, of course.

I guess I'm being a total pragmatist, but I guess I'm saying is that even if it isn't real, isn't the end-benefit of living a life believing in God and the afterlife and whatnot kind of worth it, if only to create a certain degree of self-confidence and happiness? (I know I'm not exactly being an entirely honest individual if I'm arguing that I've wished I could maintain a benign form of Judaism or Christianity merely to make myself happy. But there is a certain draw in that.)

Oh, and I went through a temporary super-atheist movement at the end of high school. Now I'm just generically agnostic or non-religious.

Originally Posted by Janus X

However, after watching Zeitgeist (the first part of the first movie), I became a strong agnostic (hey, no one can tell for sure if there IS a god). Almost everything in the ''revealed'' religions is taken from pagan religions : virgin birth, death on the cross, resurection after three days, religious symbols, death cult...

Other than "religious symbols", which is vague, and possibly "death cult" (which I don't really understand), everything you have just said is Christianity, not all revealed religions.

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It was largely the line, "The Bible is an archaic, irrelevant book based on metaphors and tall tales," that irked me. It seemed as if you were parroting atheistic talking points, ignorant of what it was you were saying.

The point I'm trying to make is being vehemently, outright anti-religion is just as logical as the inverse. There are positive and negative aspects to be found with both, and neither should be discounted in an educated conversation.

e: Hachifusa, I was raised reform, as well. My mother is Presbyterian and my father is Jewish. It's kind of complicated, but I was never raised too strictly religious.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by Capo

It was largely the line, "The Bible is an archaic, irrelevant book based on metaphors and tall tales," that irked me. It seemed as if you were parroting atheistic talking points, ignorant of what it was you were saying.

I don't understand how a person could believe some of the stories in the bible verbatim. Adam and Eve, Noah's Ark, Burning Bush, etc...

I can't fathom ever believing in such stories. Perhaps metaphorically, but not literally...

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The point I'm trying to make is being vehemently, outright anti-religion is just as logical as the inverse.

I'm against a plethora of things that religion has to offer, but not everything. I also find it ironic that the very Christians who always praise Jesus completely ignore his teachings.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by Jeffro

I'm sorry, but HOW can someone believe some of the stories in the bible verbatim? Adam and Eve, Noah's Ark, Burning Bush, etc..

I don't know how someone working so very hard to come off as educated can gloss over the fact the huge majority of believers (including the pope and the catholic church) don't believe the bible verbatim.

Believe it or not, not everyone who believes in God is completely incapable of understanding history and the vague, atheistis-only, concepts of metaphor and allegory.

Puffing on your pipe while looking down your nose (presumably past your ascot) and declaring you can't possibly understand how those masses could simply be so ignorant isn't raising a valid point, it's just being a condescending lackwit. You're prescribing maybe 5% of believers ideals on the whole of them. It's asinine and utterly counter-productive. If you have half the education you're trying to convince us you do, you know exactly why religion exists, and you know there are answers science can't provide just yet, so people will continue to use religion to try and answer them.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Jeffro

I don't understand how a person could believe some of the stories in the bible verbatim. Adam and Eve, Noah's Ark, Burning Bush, etc...

Going alittle off topic but I always found the story of Adam and Eve amusing. Because if it were true that would mean humanity was the product of incest.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by DarkMageOzzie

Going alittle off topic but I always found the story of Adam and Eve amusing. Because if it were true that would mean humanity was the product of incest.

Yeah, but a bunch of the humanities professors at my college brought up the theory that humanity back when was almost wiped out so that the family tree gets awful narrow at the bottom.

So as funny as that is, and depending on where you draw the line to define incest (1st, 2nd, 3rd 4th cousins etc), you've already got it. Personally my favorite was the ark because you're given the measurements and then told that a pair of each of the world's animals fit inside.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

A pair for each of the unclean animals sir. Seven pairs for the sacrificial ones

Also, it's kinda difficult to literally justify the Adam and Eve account. Of course, I realize they omit the names of women, but it was clearly stated that Adam and Eve had Cain and Abel. After Cain killed Abel, he took off. Then, Adam and Eve got together again and begat Seth.

Cain's wife was mentioned, before the verse "Adam lay with his wife again" (Gen. 4:25), so it's a given there were people other than the two fig-eating ones.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

While we're at it, let's talk about that bothersome "week" thing at the beginning of Genesis.

The earth's definitely older than the several thousand years young-earth creationists hold to, so therefore that week is a LIE and means that GOD does NOT EXIST.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

You know what's great about doing what you just did? It's about as stupid as the person that will see that and immediately think "Wow, they think we just didn't FACT CHECK the book and that's just not so!"

I was speaking idiomatically.

Hey, idiot:



I WAS BEING FACETIOUS.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Yeah, just noticed you were just following in line with a bunch of other idiots.

Additional Spam:

Originally Posted by Denicalis

I don't know how someone working so very hard to come off as educated can gloss over the fact the huge majority of believers (including the pope and the catholic church) don't believe the bible verbatim.

Believe it or not, not everyone who believes in God is completely incapable of understanding history and the vague, atheistis-only, concepts of metaphor and allegory.

Puffing on your pipe while looking down your nose (presumably past your ascot) and declaring you can't possibly understand how those masses could simply be so ignorant isn't raising a valid point, it's just being a condescending lackwit. You're prescribing maybe 5% of believers ideals on the whole of them. It's asinine and utterly counter-productive. If you have half the education you're trying to convince us you do, you know exactly why religion exists, and you know there are answers science can't provide just yet, so people will continue to use religion to try and answer them.

Re-read that, and then think "What have we contributed to the conversation other than stupidity?"

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by Denicalis

I don't know how someone working so very hard to come off as educated can gloss over the fact the huge majority of believers (including the pope and the catholic church) don't believe the bible verbatim.

Yes, I admit it. I'm a grade-A moron that obviously lacks the ability to discuss and debate religion with Denicalis. Happy? Is that what you want to hear from me? From the depths of my ignorance, I apologize and offer you a coupon of ten dollars to pay for the emotional trauma you have suffered because of my glaring idiocy.

Perhaps if I would have added "fundamentalism", this could have been prevented.

"I don't understand how a fundamentalist could believe some of the stories in the bible verbatim"

Quote:

Puffing on your pipe while looking down your nose (presumably past your ascot) and declaring you can't possibly understand how those masses could simply be so ignorant isn't raising a valid point, it's just being a condescending lackwit.

Condescending? How in any way was my comment condescending? Hell, I even said that certain concepts of religion I agree with. And if I didn't say that, I'm saying it now...

Quote:

You're prescribing maybe 5% of believers ideals on the whole of them.

I'm sorry I don't have time to research and discuss the other 95%.

Quote:

It's asinine and utterly counter-productive.

Instead of complaining about my supposed "ignorance", why don't you enlighten me or disprove what I have to say. Talking about how counter-productive my post is just as counter-productive...

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by Jeffro

Condescending? How in any way was my comment condescending? Hell, I even said that certain concepts of religion I agree with.

I like black people; hell, some of my best friends are black people. But I'm not talking about all black people, just the bad ones. The niggers.

being condescending is probably the nicest possible thing to describe what you are doing

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by a lurker

being condescending is probably the nicest possible thing to describe what you are doing

Can't a man NOT agree with something? I mean really...

I've never had so many people in one forum give me shit than in this one. Ridiculously oversensitive...

There's nowhere I can't reach.