Atheist parents!

Originally Posted by Cellius

Anyway, your thoughts?

Don't be like my parents. They were violent and did lots of things that drove me to God.
The very mention of God in my home was a sure way to get my butt kicked.

Love & support your kids and let them learn in reasonable boundaries.
Besides the Christian way there are worse paths to choose from, I know.
I tried them.
The occult and a multitude of other belief systems compete with mine.

I'm a parent and to keep up with todays trends I stay in touch with guys like you. Thanks to folks like you I have been proactive in my approach to inform my oldest on my view & competing views. I also live out my values and model what my belief stands for to show the reality of how it works.

In time they will choose and I wont stand in their way unless their choices will do them harm.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by JackyBoy

Religion is from a time when we didn't know-we had no way to know-that the Earth was a sphere, or that micro-organisms existed and had dominion over us. I'll reinforce that we now have a much better explanation and understanding about our situation in this rather odd solar system.

that's funny, this little book i've got next to me called the Quran says otherwise.

the earth is not a sphere, it is actually geo-spherical in shape. the Quran mentions the actual shape of the earth in the following verse:

“And we have made the earth egg shaped”. [79:30]

the arabic word dahaha means egg shaped. dahaha is derived from Duhiya which specifically refers to the egg of an ostrich which is geo-spherical in shape, exactly like the shape of the earth.

i'll let that whet your appetite... there's also plenty in the Quran with regards to our solar system such as the big bang, rotation of the planets and other stuff.

i have a question for you JackyBoy - since you yourself say that man at that time had no way to know this, please explain where all this scientific knowledge that resides in the Quran come from?

Amazon.com: The Meaning Of The Holy Quran (Meaning of the Holy Quran): Books: Abdullah Yusuf Ali

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

The resemblance is just striking.

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Didn't Mohammud say something about "even the mountains moving" years before tectonic theory and the proof that yes, mountains did in fact move.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

What is this I hear about you people not telling kids about Santa Claus? What are you, communists? Don't you (those of you who grew up with the Santa) remember how awesome it was to go downstairs at like five thirty in the morning and see all those presents that weren't there before? Don't you remember that feeling, of impossibilities happening? What, are you going to explain every magic trick they see just to suck the joy out of their lives? What kind of heartless person do you have to be to suck the wonderment out of kids?

What do you think will happen if you DO tell them? Exactly the same that happened to you when you found out. Nothing.

I mean, how can you call it misinformation? wha? Do you really deem it necessary to bring the crushing weight of reality down on five year old shoulders? don't you have any respect of the age of innocence and nativity?

shit. i would feel cheated if i never got in on the Santa.

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Originally Posted by whinehurst

What is this I hear about you people not telling kids about Santa Claus? What are you, communists? Don't you (those of you who grew up with the Santa) remember how awesome it was to go downstairs at like five thirty in the morning and see all those presents that weren't there before? Don't you remember that feeling, of impossibilities happening? What, are you going to explain every magic trick they see just to suck the joy out of their lives? What kind of heartless person do you have to be to suck the wonderment out of kids?

What do you think will happen if you DO tell them? Exactly the same that happened to you when you found out. Nothing.

I mean, how can you call it misinformation? wha? Do you really deem it necessary to bring the crushing weight of reality down on five year old shoulders? don't you have any respect of the age of innocence and nativity?

shit. i would feel cheated if i never got in on the Santa.

Thats exactly how I feel about it, yes. And you'd be surprised at how many people think the whole Santa Claus thing is "lying" to their kids.

I'll never understand it. Kids have an imagination. Kids won't be crushed when they find out that the fat guy in a red suit was just all pretend. It makes shit more EXCITING for them.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Well, there are more then one ways to inspire imagination and wonderment in children. Although I think the whole Santa Claus thing is rather an artificial construct that don't necessarily make sense. Perhaps it is part of your childhood and you had very fond memory of it, good for you. Although that doesn't mean it is a necessary part of everybody's childhood, and I don't think individuals that grow up without having some fat stranger in red suit is necessarily "deprived".

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Casual_Otaku

that's funny, this little book i've got next to me called the Quran says otherwise.

the earth is not a sphere, it is actually geo-spherical in shape. the Quran mentions the actual shape of the earth in the following verse:

“And we have made the earth egg shaped”. [79:30]

the arabic word dahaha means egg shaped. dahaha is derived from Duhiya which specifically refers to the egg of an ostrich which is geo-spherical in shape, exactly like the shape of the earth.

i'll let that whet your appetite... there's also plenty in the Quran with regards to our solar system such as the big bang, rotation of the planets and other stuff.

i have a question for you JackyBoy - since you yourself say that man at that time had no way to know this, please explain where all this scientific knowledge that resides in the Quran come from?

Amazon.com: The Meaning Of The Holy Quran (Meaning of the Holy Quran): Books: Abdullah Yusuf Ali

Well, my question is this: Does Euclid predate the Quran? He realized that the earth was round in 300 BC.

Now, back on topic. Religion really isn't so bad. It's when you get into the whole: "My religion is better than yours" ideology. I don't believe in pushing religious beliefs onto anyone.

As for your children, it's easy:

First off, wait until they ask you something along the lines: "Why does Johnny go to church?" THEN you can tell them. But, don't be sarcastic or degrading about it. Remember, many people find comfort in religion. Just explain to them that Mom and Dad don't believe in God, but that doesn't make it any more right or wrong than what others believe. It's a personal choice--just like anything a person does. Also, let them know that no matter what they choose, you will support them.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by whinehurst

....What do you think will happen if you DO tell them? Exactly the same that happened to you when you found out. Nothing.

I mean, how can you call it misinformation? wha? Do you really deem it necessary to bring the crushing weight of reality down on five year old shoulders? don't you have any respect of the age of innocence and nativity?

shit. i would feel cheated if i never got in on the Santa.

I worked with a woman who told me of her experience of finding out about Santa.

It still bothered her even at the age of 28. When she was a kid, school kids teased her constantly & with great relish about her belief in Santa.
They were cruel in many ways for a long period of time. I am put in the same position often in life and it gave me the chance to encourage her with a biblical message.

I have a Niece who was terrorized by an "invisible" dog-like creature with glowing eyes under her bed. She was thankful of my banishing the thing in the name of Christ. It never returned.

My kid is afraid of the basement. After a refresher course on the Armor of God he is good to go.

I dont sell Santa because its not useful. Entertaining but not useful.
I dont want to sow seeds of doubt about other things I believe in but cant be seen. For the atheist I suppose the same thing could happen. Dont set your kids up for doubting your convictions later in life.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by LordsSword

I worked with a woman who told me of her experience of finding out about Santa.

It still bothered her even at the age of 28. When she was a kid, school kids teased her constantly & with great relish about her belief in Santa.

"At age 28, I am still hurt about Santa not being real." If this is true, I hope the woman you speak of is mentally retarded. Seriously.

I don't think we were talking about fears either, there. Way to pay attention.

Quote:

I dont sell Santa because its not useful. Entertaining but not useful.
I dont want to sow seeds of doubt about other things I believe in but cant be seen. For the atheist I suppose the same thing could happen. Dont set your kids up for doubting your convictions later in life.

Kids aren't adults. The mentality that you take as an adult will not be relayed to a child well. They don't understand "useful." Kids aren't going to follow your conviction through life. Kids will grow up, and hopefully, they won't be fucking crushed by a man in a red suit who is a figment of their imagination. Get real.

Kids need a creative environment to flourish. They like to imagine, they like to pretend, and it's a great avenue for them to take in encouraging them to think about the world around them. Yes, magic isn't real. That doesn't mean you shouldn't allow your kids to read Tolkien or Harry Potter books, watch The Neverending Story, or pretend they're a wizard in the backyard playing with imaginary potions. They won't suffer when they grown up - it's a natural process for them to slowly become more acclimated to their environment and the reality of it all.

Encourage your kids to have a sense of imagination and wonder about the world. Don't make them adults right out of the goddamn womb. Imagination begets curiosity and creativity.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by LordsSword

I dont want to sow seeds of doubt about other things I believe in but cant be seen. For the atheist I suppose the same thing could happen. Dont set your kids up for doubting your convictions later in life.

really? Santa is the thing that will put your children's faith at risk? that's a mighty powerful conviction.

I don't know what you're coworker's experience was, but i remember back in the day there was one kid who didn't believe in Santa, and he's the one who got ridiculed. Not mercilessly, but still.

As for useful, there were plenty of times my parent's pulled the "Santa's watching" move on me, year round, and i straighted right up. Maybe that's not as useful as spiritual Kevlar (what is that, like a +4 AC?), but still...

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Sassafrass

"At age 28, I am still hurt about Santa not being real." If this is true, I hope the woman you speak of is mentally retarded. Seriously.

She's sensitive & frail. Everybody reacts differently. I wouldnt want to needlessly expose my kids to the same thing.
There are more important things to deal with.

Originally Posted by Sassafrass

I don't think we were talking about fears either, there. Way to pay attention.

Nor Santa.
I noticed we moved on to imaginative concepts and their benefits & consequences.

Originally Posted by Sassafrass

Kids aren't adults. The mentality that you take as an adult will not be relayed to a child well. They don't understand "useful." Kids aren't going to follow your conviction through life.

In ancient history, the people you label as kids ruled nations. Young people are capable of much more than the limits some people place upon them. Role models do make a difference. When I look back I consider the feats of those that went before me to measure myself by.

Originally Posted by Sassafrass

Encourage your kids to have a sense of imagination and wonder about the world. Don't make them adults right out of the goddamn womb. Imagination begets curiosity and creativity.

My son is an adult in training. He knows this. As a spiritual person & artist imagination is the stuff from which I survive on. I teach many things that may not be real to the atheist but because they are real to my kids they preform interesting feats.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by LordsSword

She's sensitive & frail. Everybody reacts differently. I wouldnt want to needlessly expose my kids to the same thing.
There are more important things to deal with.

"Sensitive and frail." I guess that does mean "mildly mentally retarded," huh?

Quote:

Nor Santa.
I noticed we moved on to imaginative concepts and their benefits & consequences.

Wow. You aren't a fan of a SAINT? Lollin' over here.

What a horrible thing to teach your kids!

Quote:

In ancient history, the people you label as kids ruled nations. Young people are capable of much more than the limits some people place upon them. Role models do make a difference. When I look back I consider the feats of those that went before me to measure myself by.

My son is an adult in training. He knows this. As a spiritual person & artist imagination is the stuff from which I survive on. I teach many things that may not be real to the atheist but because they are real to my kids they preform interesting feats.

Are you going to start preaching in this thread too?

Where is The Lord when we need him.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by LordsSword

I noticed we moved on to imaginative concepts and their benefits & consequences.

Ha! I liked how you just lumped your religion in with Santa Claus.

Dismissed.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Oh god, this thread is transitioning from "Athiest Parents" into "Listen to LordsSword Preach". Dude, its cool that ya wanna share your faith, but you just sound like an idiot when you spout it off like you do. Noone is gonna take you seriously. Maybe if your reasoning for the things you did wasn't just "the bible says so", you'd have a little more luck sounding intelligent and less fanatical. ANNNNyyyyhowwww. back on topic

Since we were talking about santa claus. My mom didn't actively promote santa claus per say. There were usually one or two gifts under the tree from santa claus, but it was usually painfully obvious that it was our wrapping paper, and my mom's handwriting. So I always knew it was her. In fact, I usually got conscripted into helping wrap gifts on christmas eve for my little brothers who at the time still pretended to believe in santa claus. So my mom pretended to believe that they still believed and thus still put gifts from santa under the tree. I'll probably end up doing the same for my kids too. I guess it's just a family thing.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by LordsSword

I have a Niece who was terrorized by an "invisible" dog-like creature with glowing eyes under her bed. She was thankful of my banishing the thing in the name of Christ. It never returned.

My kid is afraid of the basement. After a refresher course on the Armor of God he is good to go.

What do any of these (amazingly humorous) anecdotes have to do with telling your kids about Santa?

For the record, that invisible dog-like creature was probably more a figment of your niece's imagination. Please, as if banishing Satan's minions in the name of Christ from some middle aged guy is really going to scare them.

If I was Satan, I would have laughed and sent more.

OR AM I.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

I just realized how lame it's going to be that I'll have to tell my kid I can't even know he exists, so how could I be sure about anything else.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

I intend to just let my kids do most of the discovering and learning for themselves. I'm non-religious and I have no doubt that'll rub off somewhat on my kids. However its not like I'm going to keep the tykes locked up inside, they'll probably get some religious influences at school from friends and whatnot. But eventually I want to educate them to think for themselves by knowing the pros and cons of each side after they've had some exposure, such as the atrocities committed in the name of religion, but also how religion teaches certain values that make a really good person.

As for Santa though, I'm thinking I'll just show them some Christmas movie that involves Santa or something and let it be. Hopefully like myself they'll eventually grow up to the point where they'll realize on their own that they've been duped.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Yep, I'm with Yggdrasil on that one. I believe that a lot of children grow up not really knowing what they believe.
Children have their belief systems already determined many times, handed down by their parents and the children willfully accept. Its easy to do as we grow up being influenced by our parents in most respects, religion included.

There are good and bad parts to gain from religion. The consideration of course being the ability to recognize where the line is drawn.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by GRUN-2

I just realized how lame it's going to be that I'll have to tell my kid I can't even know he exists, so how could I be sure about anything else.

Just do what I intend to do and tell them that if God does exist, he's probably an asshole anyways.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

I think a lot of the time parents treat their children as objects rather than individuals and force a lot of their own beliefs on their kids. I'm not saying little kids should be making tons of adult decisions or stupid crap like that, but most children are indoctrinated into whatever religion their parents decide for them from early on. A lot of the times kids will just try things for themselves and decide if they like it or not.

I was forced to go to church a lot when I was younger, but I never enjoyed it and in the end I didn't have to keep going because I made it pretty clear church wasn't for me. I guess it's all about what you absolutely think your kids have to do and how casual you want to be about this issue. I'm an atheist and I never want to have children, but if I ever did decide to pop out some little bastards, I wouldn't stop them from going to church if they felt like it or any other religion as long as it wasn't harmful. Parents have to realize at some point their children are going to make their own decisions someday and that they can't perfectly sculpt them into whatever they wish.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by Hachifusa

What do any of these (amazingly humorous) anecdotes have to do with telling your kids about Santa?

I will finish with this. Santa in his current depiction is the same as anything a child can believe as "real" like boogymen, toothfairies, ect.
My position is to just be truthful and not set myself up to be branded as habitual liar.
The Santa thing may seem harmless but by our actions we teach what is improtant.

Originally Posted by Hachifusa

For the record, that invisible dog-like creature was probably more a figment of your niece's imagination. Please, as if banishing Satan's minions in the name of Christ from some middle aged guy is really going to scare them.

If I was Satan, I would have laughed and sent more.

OR AM I.

To her it was quite real. My solution fixed her problem & gave her comfort. What would you do?

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I think children are too young to decide their faith so it's needless to have them mentally subscribe to a religion. When they grow up to a age where they have a firm sense of reality (knowing right from wrong, knowing that santa/tooth fairy/non-tangible fantasies aren't real), let them find out what they believe on their own instead of "brainwashing" them with your own beliefs when they are at a sensitive age.

I was born into a Christian family (United Church of Christ), however I deviated from that belief in high school and now I'm currently an Atheist.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Everybody

Santa sucks. Don't tell your kids about Santa. Christmas is for losers. I hate people and secretly enjoy beating my kids with a belt.

Frankly, when I was a kid, I loved Santa. It was magic.

When the time came that I was old enough to reason that Santa was not "real", in the most mundane sense of the word, me, being the reasonable and grateful human being I am came to love and respect my parents more for it, knowing just how much effort they put into it, to suspend the illusion that just maybe there is in fact a great benefactor out there that does not discriminate between race, or religion, or anything else, but good and bad.

I don't lie. I don't cheat. I don't steal. I grew up close with my parents and all people around me.

I feel sorry for your kids. Instead of allowing them to believe that, just maybe, a little bit of beneficial magic (God fits this category too) can exist, you force them to cope with and directly accept a world wherein people hate, lie, cheat, kill, whatever they want; where people dangle food over the heads of starving Muslims and call it "evangelism during Christmas".

And then you wonder why your kids still lie, and cheat, and steal cars and beat up the neighbour's little handicapped boy.

Thank you, but sometimes I think "the truth" can be just a bit more harmful than "Santa".

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by PretzelCorps

Frankly, when I was a kid, I loved Santa. It was magic.

When the time came that I was old enough to reason that Santa was not "real", in the most mundane sense of the word, me, being the reasonable and grateful human being I am came to love and respect my parents more for it, knowing just how much effort they put into it, to suspend the illusion that just maybe there is in fact a great benefactor out there that does not discriminate between race, or religion, or anything else, but good and bad.

I don't lie. I don't cheat. I don't steal. I grew up close with my parents and all people around me.

I feel sorry for your kids. Instead of allowing them to believe that, just maybe, a little bit of beneficial magic (God fits this category too) can exist, you force them to cope with and directly accept a world wherein people hate, lie, cheat, kill, whatever they want; where people dangle food over the heads of starving Muslims and call it "evangelism during Christmas".

And then you wonder why your kids still lie, and cheat, and steal cars and beat up the neighbour's little handicapped boy.

Thank you, but sometimes I think "the truth" can be just a bit more harmful than "Santa".

Umm... I'm sorry, did you just say that people lie, cheat and commit thievery because they're told that such things exist? Ok, Huxley, do explain to us all about how a false sense of bliss and pleasantry will make it all true. Seriously, try and convince a few of us that lies about the state of the world will fix it. No, no, really. We can wait. We have the time. Go for it.

Or maybe an understanding of how the world works from a younger age might encourage people to do something to change how said system moves. Or maybe you're arguing about base human nature being changed by a lack of knowledge. Either way, I'm sure your reply will be a doozy.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.