24 Season 5 Discussion

Wow all I can say is wow the second half was amazing poor Edgar… when you think about he died because he was trying to be a nice guy and check on the that chick in the blue shirt. Had he stayed at his desk he probably be in the room with Jack. Now next week:

Spoiler:

Tony and one of the men responsible for his wife’s death looked in the same room… intense set up if you ask me. Classic 24 Tony will definitely be thinking about taking revenge out himself, a mini-version of jack struggle to not kill nina in seasons two. Will he make the right choice or will it end up like the last time Tony and Jack paralleled each other (seasons 3 trying to save Michelle)

Also another death next week:
I’m hoping for the unlikely candidate of Kim’s new boyfriend: a self-sacrificing death would fit with the entire “Don’t judge him dad” thing. It would be a very safe death since we don’t have any attachment to him but there still plenty of drama to be had. Kim’s negative feelings towards her father would only increase after this. It be almost like some twisted karma: Kim entered CTU thinking it and her father’s job took away two of the people that were dearest to her, she finds out that isn’t entirely true but with in minutes the universal “corrects” itself to keep her forever miserable. I like this path for next week eps. (besides the above reason we are run out of characters here) But no one is ever safe on 24 so we have to wait and see.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Note: I am downloading the episode right now specifically for the purpose of re-watching Tony's death scene. I may change my mind after reviewing the scene but I doubt it.

Tony’s death:
I hated it but unlike most my problem is in the fine details of the scene. Like they say it is “the little things that count”.

First I agree with jazz: Tony should having had a silent clock. I can understand only wanting one per seasons but they already ruined that by using it twice for Mason in season 2.

Secondly, After thinking about I have discovered that the quality of the scene increases greatly if I pretend the word coma was never used. Really it was only one word but it hurt the believability of the scene considerably. One moment he is completely totally out, no hope of wacking up, gone; three seconds latter he is a spiriting out of ctu. Now 24 had some ridicules moments (such as Nina taking out an infirmary and nearly escaping ctu with a severed artery), I could suspended my disbelief then because it was necessary for the scene to work, but here the wording and tone was just a needless hyperbole that:
1) not only decrease believability, but also
2) reduces the impact of Tony not killing the guy. If he was out as bad as they implied he would be useless for questioning and be as good as dead for ctu. Sure there still symbolic impact there but still not a strong as Tony’s choice having real impact on the investigations. If his conditions was ambiguous it would increased the drama considerably.
3) I felt Marwan (sp?) in season 4 was too much of a super villain, and that the writers were lossing there touch for writing good villains. Guy waking up from coma (even if it was just a really good act) feels like they aren’t even trying any more.

Thirdly, there wasn’t enough subtext to Tony’s death. I would like too think that the real reasons that Tony lost was because he didn’t have the will to live with out Michelle, not that he was real not overpowered. (especially sense he had the advantage he was on top and had better leverage, we can assume that everything else is pretty much equal both are highly trained but in a weakened states one injured, one drugged up and tortured.). There was a bit of it there but not enough, too me Tony was overpowered but did not care, still dramatic but not as good as him just completly giving up. Part of this goes back too my above problem with the poor writing, if you can accept a guy waking up from a coma like he did overpowering Tony should be easy by comparison, if the scene was better written this problem would have likely corrected it self.
Also, this is a good time too note I don’t mind Tony died such un-noble and frankly pitiful death it adds to the tragedy of his charter and his last day on earth what I hate is the horrible execution of it.

Lastly, they ended it to quickly it needed just a little bit more time to let it sinki in. In fact just adding the silent clock would have been sufficient for me. Obviously this a minor compliant but a complaint none the less.

So in short Tony’s death as shown to us last night: 4/10 Had they made a few simple minor changes it could have easily been a 9 or a 10. As for the rest of the epp. Solid 24 8.5/10 great music!. I can’t give the episode an overall rating Tony death and the rest of the epp feel like too different shows.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

I’m impressed I was highly skeptical when they started this entire the president is a traitor thing but so far the break in suspension of disbelief that twist caused has paid off nicely. These last few episodes have been intense, suspenseful and well acted. The man who plays Logan has had a great chance to show us his acting abilities these last few episodes.
Some random observations:

Martha speech about her husband pulling the wool over her head, in way reflects the way a lot of the audience must feel about this revelation.

Even in death, Logan is a pussy you were about to shot yourself you can afford to take a real drink. The guys who think they are in the clear are drinking more then you.

We know Heller lived ,yay, I’d wished they showed him for a bit however.

Why does no one play the damn thing back in front of Haynes it would least remove some doubt. Or better yet make a copy of the thing.

I wonder how they are going to do the next seasons if Logan does go to jail (he can still mange to deflect all on the “Patriots”) I would expect there to be a least some fallout that would effect how ctu and the government as a whole would operate.

Preview spoilers:

Spoiler:

Ya! We see Pierce again
OK Berikio(sp?) get free, considering the nerve gas attacks were basically this seasons B-plot I don’t see why the writer are bring him back into play.
Since the weasel did what we all knew he was going to do, looks like Jack is going to have to go directly after the Patriots.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Quote:

It would have been much cooler had the episode ended with them asking if the sub had nuclear weapons onboard (prior to Bierko taking it over) and something happened that prevented CTU from finding out. Then we'd all be going, OH SHIT, THEY'RE GONNA GET NUKES ON THE SUB AND BLOW UP LA.

While I get your point, about cliffhanger endings I dislike your example I’m actually quite glad they told us the missiles weren’t nukes. Had they went the route you suggested I would been left thinking: "O another nuke, again, been there done that." At least the Scorpion or what ever the heck they called it was a new wrinkle on an old theme.

Quote:

Sweet Martha kill / save of Aaron.
I really hope that Aaron gets a starring role next season.
I'm also hoping for "President Heller" to happen.

Agreed on all account especially Aaron. I absolutely love that guy. Giving him a larger role this season was one of the best decisions the writers made this season. Please bring him back next season O powers that be.

I really liked Henderson’s betrayal as a ploy to get the guy to lower his firewall trick. This is the kind of stuff I wanted from Henderson clever, intelligent and believable, not the "I can wake up from a coma at will" stuff they pulled when he killed Tony. It also showed a rare moment were Jack might have actually made the wrong call.

Other nice moments: Jack choking miles, Haynes little bitch-slap to Miles.

Spoiler:

Quote:

I wonder if Aaron doesn't survive the next couple eps.

I really hope he lives. *crosses fingers* but you have a point...

A couple of theories from the preview. If you assume Jack was screaming at Logan. I honestly don’t know how CTU could get incriminating evidence with out pulling some extremely convenient Deus Ex machina. However, they have other ways to end it they could have Jack hunt down Logan on his own. It would be fitting that the day starts with Jack being falsely accused of executing a president and then having it end with him actually doing it. Or they could end it with Logan still in power (Jack was yelling a Berikio or Henderson) have CTU turn a blind eye and Jack go back in hiding till next seasons. The last theory I have is that Maratha or someone else falls on the sword either by bring Logan to death themselves or taking the blame for Jack.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Overall the ending was quite good if very predictable…but despite the bug on Logan being very predictable I didn’t see it coming (No I’m not dumb, I was distracted by a pile of readings I have to do for tomorrow mornings class and shouldn’t have been wasting time watching tv…speaking of which I really shouldn’t be wasting even more time by talking about it now) so this made it more enjoyable then it really should have been. (weird, I feel guilt for enjoying the episode more then everyone else did).

I did predictable the ending, but predictable or not it was the right way to end everything.

Looking at the season as a whole: I had low expectations for this season after season four but the series redeemed itself. The writers had to drag the series up by brute force via the massive massacre that was the first episode but it worked. Looking at the bad, all my compliments basically come from a problem the series had since day one. The show depends on fast paced, adrenaline fueled, punch in the gut drama unfortunately as the show goes on certain twists could have really benefited from a more delicate, planned approach. The writers are great with a sledgehammer and a hatchet but are lousy at using a scalpel. Anyway enough procrastination for me.

I was speaking idiomatically.