How skillful is Yasunori Mitsuda?

Actually I want to ask your opinion or share your thoughts about Mitsuda's skill as composer. Of course he's reputable, his compositions are amazing and memorable, but sometimes I questioned his skill as arranger. I mean, not all VGM composers graduated from music college. Uematsu is great example. Even though he's one the most famous composer all the time, he actually study little about arranging compositions, resulting he never arranged his own compositions, FF piano collections arranged by Shiro Satou, later by Hamauzu. 20020220 arranged by Hamaguchi.

Perhaps because Mitsuda also didnt take formal music college, he is not capable enough to write the long-awaited Chrono Trigger Symphonic Suite? It's totally different if we compare him to Sugiyama or Koji Kondo. These senior composers actually do most all their arrangement themselves, Though I bit questioned whether Kondo is really the arranger of Legend of Zelda Hyrule Symphony, since rpgfan & gmr write two different names.

I'm dont underestimate him. no. in fact I really adore him for creating beautiful music in Chrono Series, but well, I really hope someday he will arrange Symphonic Suite for Chrono Series.

Mitsuda and Uematsu are proofs that great composers dont necessarily come from music college.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Did he arrange the guitar album? I thought that was pretty decent.

Anyway, until he gets around to doing a "Symphonic Suite," you could check out Chrono Symphonic. It's fan-made, so don't expect professional arrangements, but there are a few good ones in there.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

I know that one. Ocremix.org Chrono Symphonic is nice, though I expect it to be more classical. It's too cinematic imho.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Just to start off things, Mitsuda is one of my favourite composers in the vgm field.

Mitsuda's music doesn't work as basis for any symphonic material. That is only my opinion. There might be some tracks that possibly could work like that, but "world music" (bluntly put) is hard to arrange into something interesting for a huge orchestra. The arranger would have to actually compose new parts and passages for different instrument groups in the orchestra, to keep harmony and balance alive. Usually (for example almost everything Shiroo Hamaguchi has done) this is not done very well, and the result is just a silly sounding poofed-up version of the original. And I have no interest in hearing such.

Ultimately celtic stuff arranges painlessly into either something weirdly experimental (Brink of Time and SoM+ for example) or material for a smaller ensemble, celtic instruments, or for a piano. I'm biased, but what I'd like to see (or hear) is wind orchestra arrangements from video game music. Dragon Quest had that, three albums to be exact, and some of the stuff in them is even more powerful than in their symphonic orchestra counterparts.

Mitsuda's simpleness just cannot be (in my mind) transformed into something beautiful for a big symphonic orchestra. I just can't imagine how. Academic studies would be needed for that.


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I hope the upcoming Chrono Cross Arrange Album (yes, it's confirmed by Mitsuda) will be some non-string-harmony-instrumental, non-celtic-vocal-including simple acoustic stuff. Or totally derived-from-the-original crack jazz. The choice is Mitsuda's since he has them both totally under control. I hope for not another Creid, since that album flat out bores me, even with its few excellent tracks.

Those two I can hear in my mind's ear.

EDIT:

Originally Posted by eriol

Koji Kondo. These senior composers actually do most all their arrangement themselves, Though I bit questioned whether Kondo is really the arranger of Legend of Zelda Hyrule Symphony, since rpgfan & gmr write two different names.

Ryuuichi Katsumata arranged Hyrule Symphony.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

At least, Mitsuda already arranged musics by other composers (Dark Chronicle & Rogue Galaxy Premium Arrange, Street Fighter Tribute Album, his arrange of "Melodies of Life" for Melody of Legend...)

He also arranged his own music, for example with near death experience, the Shadow Hearts arranged album, or with Creid (arranged with Hidenobu Otsuki).

And don't forget that every soundtrack says "Composed, Arranged & Produced by Yasunori Mitsuda"!

I was speaking idiomatically.

Honestly, it shouldn't even make a difference whether you go to school for music or not. It's whether or not you have the "gift" to make truly good music that counts. And Mitsuda clearly has that gift.

In regards to doing a Chrono Symphonic, maybe Mitsuda just doesn't WANT to do it. Orchestral music really isn't his style to begin with.

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Originally Posted by Onyx

Orchestral music really isn't his style to begin with.

Don't say that, Xenosaga ep 1's soundtrack was excellent.

FELIPE NO

Didn't Mitsuda do some or all of the arrangements from Xenogears Creid? I agree that his music is definitely not suited to symphonic arrangements for many reasons, although there are some exceptions from Xenogears and even more from Chrono Trigger.

To me, Mitsuda's Chrono Cross soundtrack, for example, is more suited towards something along the lines of the Creid arranged album. If he did in fact do the arrangements, then who cares if he went to music school. Nothing against music school -- I went to music school -- but Creid shows a specific skill and knowledge of Celtic music, which is not necessarily taught in music schools. Mitsuda understands what he's good at, and expands on it.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

I dont know about him arranging his own stuff, but ive liked everything hes done with the "premium arrange" stuff. Espically the Theme of Rogue Galaxy.

Quote:

who cares if he went to music school

I agree. Its not how much "schooling" he has, it all lands on how much "talent" he has. Talent isnt something that can be taught, you are basicly born with it.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

By the way, I was reading his interview with RocketBaby and found this:

Quote:

Education: Graduated from Junior College of Music.

How ya doing, buddy?

Now, I begin to question myself why I'm creating this thread...

But maybe just like Onyx said, Mitsuda doesnt intend to orchestrate the chrono trigger symphonic.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by johnnyisip

Mitsuda understands what he's good at, and expands on it.

Yeah. It seems to be a similar case with Sakimoto. According to Squaresound his skills have been honed from employment and experience rather than any music schooling.

Inspiration isn't something that can be taught. Mitsuda has certainly proved himself to be inspired, so the technical aspect of how skilled he is doesn't seem to matter since it clearly hasn't hampered his ability to capture the hearts of many people out there.

I'm not the biggest fan of Mitsuda since I have to be in the right mood to enjoy a lot of his stuff, but I do understand what others see in his work. It's mostly laid back and relaxing music that he seems to do well. Not very interesting for me, but if you need something soothing, Mitsuda has always been a dependable choice.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

A few paragraphs about Mitsuda's background from yours truly, with help from CocoeBiz:

Quote:

Born on January 21, 1972, in Tokuyama, Japan, Yasunori Mitsuda is one of today's most widely loved game music composers, widely known for his Chrono and Xeno works associated with Square, though also a successful freelancer. Throughout his early childhood in Kumake, he was a keen and active outdoorsman, a talented sprinter and swimmer, who was also passionate about fishing and golf (he wanted to be the next Tiger Woods). Unfortunately, he was irresponsible and never keen on practice, quitting golf and failing to achieve on the athletics track. His lack of dedication was also reflected when learning music, which he initially completely unpassionate about, never practicing the piano while learning it throughout high school. Nonetheless, eventually he begun to appreciate music during his early teenage years, thanks to enjoying film scores, such as Vangelis' Blade Runner and Henry Mancini's Pink Panther soundtracks. This gave him a new lifelong ambition — to become an internationally acclaimed film music composer — and this ambition became refined somewhat after his father convinced him to buy a computer, leading him towards composing game music. A rare item at that day, Yasunori became a huge fan of computers and gained technical proficiency, thanks to his electrical engineering classes at high school and regular experiences creating music and programming games. This put him in good stead for his career, to be highly reliant on technical expertise.

After graduating from high school, the pathway towards his musical career reached another turning point, as he decided to leave home and become independent. This move was influenced by his sister, who was getting married at the same time. With bold words from his father, he was encouraged to move to Tokyo, where he enrolled in a junior college to study composing and arranging. This move was either going to make or break him. Indeed, he had little musical knowledge, suffering from his lazy childhood, and was forced to go to a junior college, not a standard one, as a result. Knowing that he would need to do a huge amount of work to catch up, however, Mitsuda was wise enough to dedicate these years to constant practice and learning. Despite being often ridiculed by needlessly cruel teachers who told him he was a natural born failure, he never gave up and these comments simply hardened him and made him be even more determined to prove them wrong and succeed. Further, in spite of their destructive comments, he still learnt a lot from his teachers by seeing them conduct their work outside the college (most were only part-time teachers and had careers elsewhere in the music industry); though he was often given the tasks of carrying heavy instruments, this did not prevent him from learning. While here, his regular early morning 'jam' sessions and beer-induced escapades with long-term collaborator Yoshitaka Hirota aided his musical and social development and led to the formation of a strong friendship. These two years shaped him into a man and made him a blossoming musician, and, while certainly tough and the hardest he had ever worked, his resolute determination to succeed was what made him an unexpected success.

During his junior college years, the prospect of finding a job was raised while working under a teacher at the sound department of a game software company during the autumn and winter of his second academic year (1991-1992). Since he had no clear plans, yet plenty of ambitions, his teacher recommended that he apply for a job at Square, having seen an advertisement for a composing job in a gaming magazine. Though this was hardly what he wanted to do, still desiring the option of composing for movies, he decided to apply nonetheless and sent three sample pieces initially to the company. The four-man sound team at the time decided that they needed more than three pieces to make their decision, however, and Mitsuda had to create three more compositions for them. Two days after sending them, he received an invitation to an interview and met with Nobuo Uematsu and sound programmer Minoru Akao at the start of March. Unfortunately, he made a number of poor responses at the interview, stating that he had never played the Final Fantasy series, Square's only major success at that time, and only wanted the job as a stepping stone. Despite the interviewers being horrified, they were still prepared to give him a job, having been impressed by his compositions, and was subsequently recruited the following month. Though ecstatic at being employed, he remained resolute throughout his time at the company that his employment was the foundations for his move on to bigger and better projects, remaining as hard-headed and ambitious as ever.

Despite being employed under the title 'composer', Mitsuda's first projects were actually a series of roles dedicated to sound manipulation and sound effects. His first project came when he was asked to work with game music legend Koichi Sugiyama on the Super Nintendo's Hanjuku Hero, Sugiyama's only contribution to Square. Mitsuda was asked to work as a sound programmer and sound effects designer, and, despite his eagerness for a composing role, he truly enjoyed his work, especially given it was alongside such a respected and loved composer. Sugiyama taught Mitsuda much and this certainly helped him later in his career, particularly when he had to write orchestral themes for the first Xenosaga game. Working on 1992's Final Fantasy V and Secret of Mana in similar roles, Mitsuda became known as the most picky person when it came to sound quality in the company, inspired an array of innovative techniques for improving sound effects, and, along with Minoru Akao, was a principle force for Square's SNES games always sounding relatively good. Mitsuda soon got bored of not being in a composing role, however, and, after taking a similar role for 1993's Romancing SaGa 3, it dawned on Mitsuda that if he didn't do something, he would remain a sound programmer for the rest of his career, much like Minoru Akao. Having fought so many uphill struggles to succeed, he wasn't prepared to stick this out, leading him to march into the office of Hironobu Sakaguchi, Square's vice president, one day and give the ultimatum that either he was to be given a composing role or he would quit the company...

He received education at music college, but this is hardly graduating from university. However, his fiercely ambitious nature, together with his ability to self-reflect and persevere, has made him largely successful. While I do find Mitsuda a tad arrogant at times, everything he says usually makes a lot of sense and I admire his ability to constantly refine his style while both revisiting his roots and experimenting into new areas (e.g. Moonlit Shadow, Xenosaga Ep. 1, Hako no Niwa). He's a composer who has done well to move with the times, though I still don't appreciate his Celtic contributions that much.

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Originally Posted by eriol

FF piano collections arranged by Shiro Satou, later by Hamauzu.

Don't you mean "later by Hamaguchi"?

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

So... not very skillful at all?

/kidding

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by Free.User

Don't you mean "later by Hamaguchi"?

Well, Hamauzu did FFX PC and a selection of people did FFX-2 PC, though Hamaguchi was the arranger of the PS1 Piano Collections.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Free.User

Don't you mean "later by Hamaguchi"?

Oh yeah, I forgot that one. Btw I also heard that Hamauzu is arranging piano album features Mitsuda's compositions, no?

Jam it back in, in the dark.

I love it when people think that if someone doesn't orchestrate and/or program their music, it means they are a talentless hack. The fact of the matter is that many of the most successful composers in any field have other people orchestrate (or program) their music. It's why there are jobs called "orchestrator" and "synthesizer programmer." While it's true that some composers can do it all themselves, it doesn't make the music inherently better or more skillful. In fact, the majority of my favorite composers have at least some help in getting the music put together.

So that whole question is moot for me when considering Mitsuda's skill as a composer. He's an incredibly skillful melodist in that he's capable of combining a wide variety of influences and styles into a cohesive score. I'm a bit perplexed why anyone would see his music as anything other than orchestral, though; it's synthesized, yes, but synthy sounds don't usually take precedence in his work, nor do wailing electric guitars (though both do make some appearances).

Awhile back, I tried to put together a one-to-one correspondance of my favorite VGM artists and western film score composers. In that figuring, Yasunori Mitsuda = James Horner.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Mr. Maul

Well, Hamauzu did FFX PC and a selection of people did FFX-2 PC, though Hamaguchi was the arranger of the PS1 Piano Collections.

Right. I didn't know about the X and X-2 PCs, thanks for filling me in.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Maul

Well, Hamauzu did FFX PC and a selection of people did FFX-2 PC, though Hamaguchi was the arranger of the PS1 Piano Collections.

Sorry off topic, PS1 = Phantasy Star? Playstation1? Just curious

Originally Posted by orion_mk3

It's why there are jobs called "orchestrator" and "synthesizer programmer." While it's true that some composers can do it all themselves, it doesn't make the music inherently better or more skillful.

Now I see Mitsuda in clearer view. Maybe it's wrong to compare him with classical trained composers such as Sugiyama, Hamauzu, and Shimomura. He's more savvy as synthesizer and composing simple music with ornament from the syntesizer itself. One of Hamauzu's weakness is his lack of making memorable tunes, he's a brilliant arranger, but not really impressive when making themes. But look at Mitsuda, his chrono trigger compositions have become legend now.

Oh yeah, I heard Mitsuda also a brilliant user of synthesizer operator (manipulator? sampling maker?) a job which requires high skill in VGM world I think.

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Originally Posted by eriol

Oh yeah, I forgot that one. Btw I also heard that Hamauzu is arranging piano album features Mitsuda's compositions, no?

Yes, he already did. It's called Sailing to the World Piano Score.

How ya doing, buddy?

You know, Mitsuda orchestrated the tracks performed by the London Philharmonic Orchestra for Xenosaga himself. And he is also skilled as a synthesizer operator, since he also took charge of it on Xenosaga (alongside Masaaki Kaneko). And he was a sound programmer during his first years at Square... so I guess he is truly skilled, after all.

(and PS1 is PlayStation... Hamaguchi arranged FFVII, VIII and IX Piano Collections)

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by Zanasea

You know, Mitsuda orchestrated the tracks performed by the London Philharmonic Orchestra for Xenosaga himself. And he is also skilled as a synthesizer operator, since he also took charge of it on Xenosaga (alongside Masaaki Kaneko). And he was a sound programmer during his first years at Square... so I guess he is truly skilled, after all.

Agreed. I wasn't saying that Mitsuda didn't do those things in my post; I was saying that I don't like it when people look down on those composers that use orchestrators or synth programmers (occasionally to the extent that they give the orchestrator or synthprog full credit).

I bet Mitsuda could write a hell of a film score, if he wanted to.

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Originally Posted by eriol

Now I see Mitsuda in clearer view. Maybe it's wrong to compare him with classical trained composers such as Sugiyama, Hamauzu, and Shimomura. He's more savvy as synthesizer and composing simple music with ornament from the syntesizer itself. One of Hamauzu's weakness is his lack of making memorable tunes, he's a brilliant arranger, but not really impressive when making themes. But look at Mitsuda, his chrono trigger compositions have become legend now.

I'd probably put Shimomura more in the category you're describing Mitsuda as...Her music generally relies on strong themetic material as well (thinking Mario RPG, Street Fighter 2 and Legend of Mana here) and would probably be tricky to orchestrate convincingly, since it's generally pretty simple. Street Fighter 2 for example, lends itself far better to straight-up rock/synth arrangements that focus on enhancing the main melody. Likewise, I thought the Chrono Trigger: Brink of Time album thoroughly bombed because the solos and questionable sections littered throughout the album did everything in their power to undermine anything I liked about the originals, to the point where they seemed like more of an afterthought.

I generally agree on Hamauzu, althought it'd be quite hard to forget the Saga Frontier 2 main theme after listening through the soundtrack...

Originally Posted by orion_mk3

I bet Mitsuda could write a hell of a film score, if he wanted to.

One could argue he already did one, considering how many cut-scenes Xenosaga has.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

While Shimomura graduated from the Osaka University of Music, her music doesn't reveal much evidence of classical training, much like what Goldfish said. It's often extremely simple, not that this is a bad thing, and don't forget that Kaoru Wada was the orchestrator for the Kingdom Hearts games.

Jam it back in, in the dark.