Free energy, holla (reploid war is over)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060818...dscienceenergy

Quote:

DUBLIN (AFP) - An Irish company has thrown down the gauntlet to the worldwide scientific community to test a technology it has developed that it claims produces free energy.
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The company, Steorn, says its discovery is based on the interaction of magnetic fields and allows the production of clean, free and constant energy -- a concept that challenges one of the basic rules of physics.

I can't say I believe it one way or the other but I find it interesting. I've considered maybe they're unintentionally channeling energy that already exists from somewhere else. Could this mean our universe really did come from nothing at all?

I hope this discovery doesn't disapper, like orgone.

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So many people and companies have made up inventions that claim to offer us infinite energy in the past...so far, I think that basic physics is winning.

Why do all of these magical devices seem to center around magnets, anyways?

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by Rakka

Why do all of these magical devices seem to center around magnets, anyways?

CUZ MAGENTS ARE MADE OF MAGNETO, AND MAGIC,

MAGICAL MAGNETOS! Now with Free Magnet Marshmellows!, part of a complete breakfas.!

*ahem* I'd like to see at least a demonstration of this before I even begin to think that its little more then a hoax or an get rich quick scheme, even
if the people said they did 'rigerous' testing already. I almost think this story is secretly a Bullshit Detector Test.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

You know, the only reasons I don't think it's weird for this thread to be here in General Discussion is because I'm fairly drunk.

There are so very many crackpots making various claims, yet every single one of those claims, either it be about free energy or the possibility of space travel using technology Tesla invented (I swear, this guy is some sort of god amongst crackpots) comes with a "Here's why I can't actually demonstrate this and become rich and famous because of THE MAN!" clause. Well, fuck you. If you had discovered a way to make "free energy", laws of thermodynamics be damned, then surely you'd be able to make some sort of doomsday device or something with it and threaten THE MAN with it to mark an end to its REIGN OF TERROR and be hailed as a hero the likes of which the world has never seen.

In conclusion, you're full of shit and I hope you die in a ditch somewhere.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Infinite Source of Energy! Send me 200 grand for plans!

Seriously though, the idea of free energy is great, but I'm not about to jump on the bandwagon that challenges the most basic rules of physics. It'd be great to solve the world's energy woes (and probably stop a few wars) just like that, but I'm going to hold off on replacing my engine with magnets. Lot's of tiny magnets!

again with the magnets, always with the magnets

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Even if this were real I invision the people behind it to be kidnapped and ritualistically teabagged by oil tycoons. There's no way real forms of alternate energy sources will begin to come to fruition until the natural rescource situation goes ultra-critical.

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This discovery was brought to you by:

Spoiler:

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by Rakka

Why do all of these magical devices seem to center around magnets, anyways?

I actually have an idea for how to create perpetual motion using magnets. I'd leave it to someone else to determine how we can get energy from it. Unfortuantely, I lack the resources...

This article is interesting. I'm not going to say I don't believe it, but I find it hard to believe since the scientists don't attempt to explain why the device works, how it can defy known physics.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

I just have a hard time believing some Irish guys should "accidentally" come across a device that taps zero-point energy. I presume that is what it must be doing since other than extracting it from the very fabric of space-time itself, you can't "make" energy.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Isn't what Dr. Octavius was trying to do in Spider-Man 2?

There's nowhere I can't reach.

You guys are trying to call bullshit and it very well may be but keep in mind the people who discovered this are trying to get people to test it and examine it as opposed to making the bold claim that it truly works. They've also tested it for themselves over the past three years.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

The guys who invented this will probably assassinated by agents of the oil industry.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Yeah, Eleo is right. These guys are begging the scientific community to investigate this. From the little bit of information that was provided on their website (I want to see those patents dammit!), it seems tha they were attempting to work on micro generators, and they discovered the output to be over 100% than the input.

And I think that the most likely explanation why magnets are a recurring theme in PMMs of the first kind is due to the fact that electromagnetism is a lot easier to manipulate and test than gravity, or the strong and weak forces.

I was speaking idiomatically.

There was a theory on fark that this is another viral marketing scheme that Microsoft came up with. I think it has something to do with the swoosh on the companies logo and the beehive on the registration page.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by Taterdemalion

The guys who invented this will probably assassinated by agents of the oil industry.

Probably. Actually, even if tests prove that this discovery does work, chances are the United States will find some way to say that it's too expensive to use and keep us trapped in the oil vice. We have creations such as wind and solar power, yet the U.S. doesn't really consider them to be as important to fund as oil. Yes, they are funded, but they continue to claim it's more expensive than oil.

I hope it does work and the creators find someone who is willing to test the idea. Did anyone see the episode of Mythbusters where they tested other free energy devices?

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by Visavi

I hope it does work and the creators find someone who is willing to test the idea. Did anyone see the episode of Mythbusters where they tested other free energy devices?

I did. I'd like to see them try a scaled-down version of this item, assuming it can be scaled down and assuming the people let them. At the very least, I'd get to see how it works.

How ya doing, buddy?

Listen to you guys; so gullible. Do the names Fleischman and Pons mean anything to you? Perhaps you're not old enough to remember all the bullshit surrounding the amazing discovery of cold-fusion many years ago. It was tested plenty of times with mixed results. The point is, they had the best of intentions but were too naive and not thorough enough to realise that their experiments, which seemed perfect at the time, were inherently flawed.

Just don't get your hopes up.

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Yeah. MAgnets are just another dead end as far as "free energy" goes. There is no such thing as free energy. Any high school physics teacher can show you that.

What would happen to magnets that are kept close together long enough like this is eventually their particles would lose their ordering and they would no longer be magnetic.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by ArrowHead

Yeah. MAgnets are just another dead end as far as "free energy" goes. There is no such thing as free energy. Any high school physics teacher can show you that.

Kinda OT, but I always wondered: IF energy cannot be created or destroyed, where did all the energy we currently have come from? Big Bang is likely the layman's answer, but I'm really curious as to how all of the energy in the universe came to be if it cannot be generated.

Quote:

What would happen to magnets that are kept close together long enough like this is eventually their particles would lose their ordering and they would no longer be magnetic.

Well there's a loophole for governments to make some money: Magnet Replacement Fee

I still think the whole thing is bullshit. To modify a 4chan meme for this:
"Proof or GTFO!"

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Link to a testing rig pic.

http://www.steorn.net/images/sean4_large.jpg

I doubt this works. But I demand that it gets tested. Ignorance never advanced science/technology, so lets get this thing debunked.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Hot damn! They've even got a flywheel, the staple of all great perpetual motion machines!

Anyway, for those people saying we should actually pay attention to them, may I ask just why? Fine, science does not advance by immediately ignoring anything that challenges existing theories, but neither does it advance by listening to every crackpot that comes with his own theory he cooked up while under the influence of various substances. To quote; "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence". There's NOTHING going on for that particular case, while, to take the quantitative alone, there's almost 150 years of experience since Maxwell formulated his equations on electromagnetism going against it, and just as much if you look only at the laws of thermodynamics. Ulysses makes a nice comparison when he mentions "Fleischman and Pons" but even then that's not the same; at least they weren't going as far as to claim free energy, "only" a way to achieve fusion never seen before.

Seriously, they have absolutely nothing. I've always been amazed how media and official looking press releases can suddently make people consider what they'd otherwise be clever enough not to bother with. If I had $100,000 buck, I too could put an ad in a major publication about something like that, and how my company, consisting of a desk and a phone in my mother's basement, discovered something so absolutely wonderful. Granted, this company existed before their "discovery", but from looking at their website there doesn't seem to be much about whatever other product or expertise they might offer.

If they really did have a free energy machine, then it would already have been published in serious peer-reviewed journals. If Einstein actually managed to get his theory of relativity published, which I find to be just as hard, if not harder to believe than this thing, then surely they'd be able. The difference here is that Einstein had actual quantitative, logical arguments. He didn't go "I've solved the problems we have with Maxwell's laws, but I'm not going to tell you how exactly. I will, however, have my theory examined by some people I deem to be worthy and will publish a full-page ad saying "TIME TRAVEL POSSIBLE" in the New York Time."

I was speaking idiomatically.

@ YeOldeButchere

Your example of Einstein is not quite equal. First off, the theory of relativity itself doesn't make money. It is a scientific discovery. Yes it is used to make more precise calculations and also explains other things that lead to making money. But this is energy we are talking about, argueably the most precious commodity. These guys don't care about breaking the laws of physics, they just want to make money off the patents. Playing those cards close to the chest makes good business sense.

Which brings me to my second point, this is a company not a couple dudes with too much time on your hands. From what I've gathered, they are primarily a research company (which means they won't have many concrete products to sell). I would fully expect that they keep this underwraps just like 3M, IBM, or Intel would.

To let you know, I don't think they succeeded. But hell, there is little reason not to see it get tested, especially as this does not appear to be coming from naive individuals. Yes, cold-fusion scientists were reputable at one time as well, but claims still need to be disproven.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by Eleo

You guys are trying to call bullshit and it very well may be but keep in mind the people who discovered this are trying to get people to test it and examine it as opposed to making the bold claim that it truly works. They've also tested it for themselves over the past three years.

Well, yes, but I'd guess that's just to make their hoax seem a bit more plausible. I mean, would anyone even give this company the benefit of the doubt if they said that they had invented some sort of miracle source of infinite energy, but that no one could see or test it? I'm sorry, but this is just too far-fetched for me to believe at all...it's probably a hoax, maybe a well-meaning group of people who misplaced a decimal point somewhere during their testing, but they're trying to throw a couple hundred years of physics out of the window with this development.

It is interesting to think of just how our society would change with an infinite source of clean and safe energy, though...

FELIPE NO

I remember seeing this a few years ago in another GFF thread, by another impressionable, under-educated teen. "Genesis World Energy" told us all how they would revolutionise global energy systems, causing a massive change in the way we lived, using a strange type of hydrogen extraction system about the size of a common washing machine. Somehow this device required no power to do this job, or to be more precise, used energy it created itself to perform the extraction. This gas could then be used to fuel anything. In the case of Genesis World Energy, they were clearly riding on the hype behind the very real advent of fuel-cells, no doubt to make their own "invention" sound legitimate.

As it turned out, it was bullshit. I bookmarked their slick website all those years ago, and just now for the first time in forever I checked it. Their website is gone, and the website of an individual monitoring their activities came up with this:
http://members.cox.net/john.lichtenstein/

There's another thread somewhere on GFF where we have been discussing the nature of matter. Matter and energy are made of the same "stuff". All matter and energy that ever existed or ever will exist was created at the creation of the Universe itself. Think of it in the same way as water on the Earth. There may occasionally seem like shortages of water around the world, but in basic terms the total amount of water on the Earth remains constant (except for marginal atmospheric losses), it is just how it is distributed that has such a great effect on society and nature. We cannot run out of water, ever.

I'm sure there are several organisations champing at the bit to debunk this Stargate SG-1-style prop, it'll just take a while before they can get their hands on it I suppose. Conducting impartial and accurate scientific analyses takes a lot of planning and rounding up the right people.

EDIT:
Lol, Einstein's work was ALL about energy, was it not? That's pretty hilarious. The beauty of his work is that it is testable, provable, and very real. This is why String Theorists struggle, they can't test jack shit even if they wanted to, as opposed to the Loop Quantum Gravity guys who base their work in an Einsteinian framework and so may, someday, have something to work with.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

The reason I've compared those guys with Einstein is that they're saying they have a working device but just can't get the attention of the scientific community. When Einstein first published his theory of Special Relativity, it predicted things so weird (time slowing down, length contractions, mass depending on energy...) that it could have easily been dismissed as the work of some random crackpot. Yet it got published anyway, because Einstein had actual quantitative, experimentally verified evidence. These guys don't.

Originally Posted by Dayvon

Playing those cards close to the chest makes good business sense.

They're saying they want the attention of the scientific community! They're essentially asking anyone with a Ph.D to look at their stuff, but no one even wants to. That kind of conflicts with the whole "keep things secret and make cash with it" idea, no?

Originally Posted by Dayvon

Which brings me to my second point, this is a company not a couple dudes with too much time on your hands. From what I've gathered, they are primarily a research company (which means they won't have many concrete products to sell). I would fully expect that they keep this underwraps just like 3M, IBM, or Intel would.

Yes, a "research company" with absolutely no info whatsoever about anything else than their miraculous energy source on their website. Oh, and that was an accident, so one should assume that they have something else they're doing, or at least were doing before. Yet there's nothing on that.

This company was a dot.com business, which then decided to become a R&D company. Don't compare it to 3M, IBM or Intel, please. Being incorporated doesn't mean anything. Take the fine company known as Infinium Labs (remember the Phantom?). Anyway, it happens to be pretty close to a publicly traded company, and yet it has a whole 5 employees last time I checked! How much more reputable is Steorn? Can you name a single thing they've ever done before. I've made a few quick checks, and haven't found anything.

Originally Posted by Dayvon

To let you know, I don't think they succeeded. But hell, there is little reason not to see it get tested, especially as this does not appear to be coming from naive individuals. Yes, cold-fusion scientists were reputable at one time as well, but claims still need to be disproven.

Cold fusion is one thing. At least it doesn't break fundamental laws of science which have stood for a century and a half, more if you consider that perpetual motion machines have been imagined all the way back in the 13th century and likely before.

How ya doing, buddy?