[PS3] PlayStation 3 Discussion Thread

Originally Posted by AcerBandit

True. True enough. The idea of two HDMI outputs is ridiculous anyway and everyone scoffed at it last year.

I didn't think it was ridiculous. Dual HDMI outputs offers some of the same things the two screens the DS offers. HUDs, maps and such can easily be programmed to be displayed on a second screen if it detects a second display device. In terms of programming hours to offer this feature even to the small amount of people that may make use of it, the amount of extra time is insignificant.

Dual HDMI was one feature I was sad to see go. I had every intention of sitting my 24-inch PC monitor next to my HDTV if developers would have made use of such a feature.

Quote:

I hope you know the Wii still comes with a shell, and it is still compadable with the original Gamecube controller. Plus, Nintendo will never pull off a Dreamcast, they have plenty of cash reserves to back themselves up.

Defeating the entire purpose of the Wii. Without the controller, the Wii is nothing but an old generation console system.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

I don't know about you guys, but I think having 40 GB of storage space in console that outputs in high definition happens to be a good idea. A few developers have already expressed their displeasure with working with the XBox 360 and it's standard DVD-9 discs. Most of the DOA4 endings were cut short because the developers didn't want you to have to put a new disc in to watch various endings for each character.

I think we already went over this, but using FMV is still cheaper and easier than using your ingame engine even if the engine can make things look as good as the FMV. I think most developers will be VERY appreciative of the 40 GB of storage space they have to work with.

Of course the Wii is a different matter as it will not support high definition output so DVD-9 is sufficient for that console.

Originally Posted by Technophile

I wonder what'll happen to PS3's price if HD-DVD comes out on top and blue-ray goes down the path of Sony's mini-disks and UMD movies...

Why do people continue to make this comparison like Blu-Ray is a Sony propitiatory format. I hope you realize Sony doesn't own Blu-Ray. They are just one of the 12 major companies that helped develop the technology and the standards.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

I have to agree that Sony is pretty much clueless when it comes to the online connectivity realm. You're going to get what you pay for with the Sony service. Unlike Microsoft, who uses the XBox Live fees to maintain, upgrade and add features to the Live network, Sony won't have this income. Don't expect anything but some sort of very basic connectivity features with the PS3.

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by Technophile

Honestly so long as whatever they set up allows you to actually play your games online versus other actual human players, I'll be fine. All that extra online community, e-shop, score rankings, video/voice chat, myspace-esque stuff seems like extra fluff. They're certainly nice to have but not really needed.

Anyway, seems like the backlash just keeps on rolling...

and rolling...

and...rolling?

...?

How the hell will analog A/V or Component cables be able to display a full, HD, 1080p picture? I'll only believe this, when I see it.

Uh a 1080p picture does not offer enough bandwidth to saturate a analog connection. 1080p pictures are only downscaled though non-HDMI connections if there is some type of ACSS protection on the data stream. This encryption is employed though the software, though it looks like movie companies don't even plan on making use of ACSS protection until at least 2010, if ever due to many HDTVs being sold today without HDMI inputs.

This HDMI issue is blow way out of perspective by people that don't even understand what HDMI is. HDMI does not offer higher resolutions compared to analog connections and the picture quality difference between component and HDMI is minimal to non-existent unless you are using a TV with really shit Digital-Analog converter circuitry.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Technophile

Are you saying that, sans the ACSS/HDCP issue, both Component and HDMI cables will be able to truly display an identical 1080p picture? Because working at BestBuy, I've seen plenty of side by side comparisons on both high-end LCD and plasma TVs where that wasn't the case.

P.S.

I'm not trying to be sarcastic here or challanging your statements. I'm genuinly asking because I've never seen an "HD" picture running through Component that truly looked as good as one off of HDMI.

With a decent DA converter, there would be minimal difference. HDMI will offer a sharper picture, but nothing as drastic as being described around here. The jump in quality between component to HDMI is actually less than the jump between S-video and component.

And this is all assuming Sony doesn't offer a DVI solution for the multi-out which is entirely possible and would result in picture quality identical to HDMI output. It would just lack the ability to decrypt a ACSS stream.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

It's a false rumor which shouldn't be a surprise to most. Direct response to the latest rumor:

Quote:

We reported yesterday about a rumored message from Sony to retailers to warn them that selling used PS3 titles is "illegal." Sony has come out today and denied the rumor, telling GamesIndustry.biz "It's false speculation. We don't have any further knowledge about this topic - either officially or unofficially, to be frank."

Source

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by Shonos

Why is it bullshit? You do realize that's basicly how it has been on computers for the longest time? You do not own the games and software you use. You merely purchased a license to use the software. The creators own the software, they're just letting you use it.

It may not be the best way to go about it but it's nothing new. If you're sitting here reading this post on any windows software then you're showing you have no problem with that kind of thing.

No it's not the same. It's completely legal to box up and resell PC software if you uninstall the software from the previous machine. PC license software only prevents you from installing the software over the specified amount of PCs at once. It in no way makes reselling illegal.

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by Casual_Otaku

yesterday, actually. been using it for 5 years now...

Same here. I really don't see the problem considering DVD playback was pretty much a gimmie with the PS2 being all of the required hardware and software for DVD playback was in the box to support gaming.

PS3 is pretty much the same situation. I don't see anything being added to the box that would not be used for the gaming aspect of the system. Personally I think it is stupid not to include things such as DVD playback and web browsing when the hardware is already there to support it.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Omnislash124

I can understand the blu-ray capabilities being necessary, but web browsing? Don't you already have a computer for that? And I don't think Web Browsing is natively supported by the PS3 hardware. The ability to go online for online gameplay, yes, but actually browsing web sites online? Takes more work there, and is definitely not necessary. At least not in my opinion.

What exactly does web browsing require in terms of hardware? Just a NIC which is including in the box for online play and some type of storage medium for the software. It's just a simple matter of adding the browser software to the hard drive which is also supplied for gaming use as well. TCP/IP protocol software is already there for online play and adding web browsing support to the package is trivial. Hell, I bet the online game matching will be a web browser interface so I could even use that as an argument and say web browsing is present to support gaming on the machine.

And yes I do have a computer, but I imagine it would be very nice to pull up for example, a GameFAQs page, once and a while from a browser dashboard from your TV rather than having to go to your computer.

Most amazing jew boots

Originally Posted by Forsety

There are people out there who actually have their computers in rooms away from their televisions? Insanity.

I bet more people do their console gaming in rooms that lack a computer. I'm not one of them, but I still think being able to pull up webpages instantly on the same screen is far more convenient and a worthwhile feature. Like we've already discussed, the hardware and software framework for web browsing is already there to support gaming on the machine, why not take it a bit further?

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by CryHavoc

True, very true, but let's remember, when the costs rocket sky-high (as is the case here) some "extra abilities" just aren't justified any more, nor do they seem attractive.

Old news but i gotta say it, HOW ABOUT ADD-ONs that I choose to purchase to enhance my use of the console for everything that is NOT gaming . In other words, leave what's nessecery for the gaming intact, but spare me the useless junk that i would otherwise call "luxuries".

I need to stress that i'm not talking about the insanely high abilities of the Cell or the raw power of the Reality Synth. Those all add to the gaming abilities.

Hmm, now that i mentioned it, i think i don't know what i meant in the first place, but you get what i mean, no?

There is nothing in the PS3 that is adding to costs that is not being used by games. That's what I've been getting at here. It's a trivial matter in cost and effort to add Blu-Ray movie playback when all of the required hardware and software is already there for FMV playback in games. We've already gone over web browsing. The Cell and RSX are obviously in there to support gaming. Every console need an OS, so why not just use Linux and while at it offer more applications with it besides basic hardware to software translation especially considering Linux is opensource.

Quote:

Sony needs to be more clear on their definition on standard.

How much clearer do they need to be? They've already announced the two packages the PS3 will be available in as well as exactly what is different in each package. Unlike with Microsoft, the difference in the two packages don't have a major effect on the capabilities of the system.

Most amazing jew boots

Originally Posted by AcerBandit

What's this PooS business I keep hearing about? =o



http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/p-oo-s/...oos-184547.php

There is no infinity symbol in the ASCII or UNICODE standard. Whoever filed to patent decided oo looks similar to the infinity symbol. The Internet got ahold of a patent and decided PooS sounded funny and then made stupid links to the two ii used in Wii. It's not PooS it is P-infinity-S. Don't ask me what this means either.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Someone already decompiled the flash file. Seems they used an iPod box to disperse the smoke when filming the effect. The PS3 picture didn't quite mask the bright white Apple logo on the iPod box and thus the Apple logo flashes though during a few frames of the animation.

It was just an oversight and you can't even see it with a properly configured monitor and color profile which whoever at Sony made this most likely has. If you can see that logo flash you need to reconfigure your monitor. :P

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by Metal Sphere

I just tweaked my gamma settings last week (since I'm too frugal to go for a calibrator) and can't see it at all. Same thing happened over on GamingAge. BTW, Cetra, what do you use to adjust your monitor settings/make color profiles? Something like QuickGamma or that in-built Adobe Photoshop option?

I actually use a various amount of on screen test patterns to adjust brightness, contrast and gamma to the correct levels. Then I use a physical color calibration chart (it's a piece of cardboard with colors on it) and adjust my color levels by hand as well.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by Metal Sphere

Whoa, you've got a chart? Know where I can get one? My monitor's pretty old, and I'm on the lookout for a better CRT.

Couldn't tell you, sorry. One of the graphic designers had one at work so I went over to Kinkos and had a copy of it made.

Originally Posted by Omnislash124

I really can't think of a single wireless conroller feature a rumble feature, then again, I stay away from 3rd parties. So whatever.

But on the idea of a PS2 controller fitting into a PS3 via outside peripheral....how much do they plan on selling this for? Because you're not saving much money if this peripheral costs as much as a PS3 controller. I guess if you really must have the rumble feature, ok. But you do lose the wireless capability as well as the tilt sensor. It's probably not worth it, IMO.

Xbox 360 controller?

The loss of the rumble feature is something that really bothers me. I've been playing my PS2 games with them off after the announcement and you really don't appreciate what the feature does until it's gone. I'm really going to miss it.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by BZ

http://www.joystiq.com/2006/05/14/pl...o-be-psp-like/

Hasn't it already been confirmed that the interface is garbbage?

Not to mention Sony has never had a decent interface.

I'm sorry, but the PSP interface is one of the slickest, quickest, nicest looking user interfaces I've seen in a long time. If the PS3 follows this format, then it is far better than the bloated garbage Microsoft cooked up for the Xbox 360. Minimalistic is in and if that is the PS3 UI then it looks to be an extremely good one. It looks to be built off of the PSX (the Japanese only PS2) and there was nothing but praise for that interface.

Not to mention Sony interfaces for cameras, DVRs, TVs, etc have won countless awards and are regarded by many to be the best offerings out there. I can't believe I just read "Sony has never had a decent interface".

Sony might suck at a lot of things, but user interfaces are not one of them. The only company I would put ahead of Sony in the interface department is Apple.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Quote:

And here we have some shots of the PS3's XMB, from IGN's Weekly video feature.

Note that this is the SDK version of the XMB. More than likely the final version in the consumer model will be similar to what was shown in the video posted in the previous page.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Pietak

You know what? Resistance doesn't really look that good... It really looks like an UT2004 mod with HDR effects, you know? I mean, look especially at that last screenshot. Not very desirable right now...

I think the first shot in the snow looks pretty impressive. Look at the draw distance and how much detail is in the building architecture.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Guest

I haven't been keeping up with PS3 news lately but is it true that the PS3 won't support used games? Do you guys seriously want to pay 600$ for a system that won't let you rent, borrow, trade-in or buy used games? Especially when they're 60$ and up. I lost all faith in Sony once I heard about the PS3's price tag. But if this is true, I mean WTF, then I'll never get a PS3 regardless of how much it costs. Imagine buying a game only to find out it sucks, I'm sure we've all done that once or twice. Then you'll really be stuck with a piece of crap in a box.

False, false and uh, false. Sony quickly shot down that rumor long ago.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by SOLDIER

You sure? It looked pretty realtime to me. At least, I'm hoping it was, considering that the screenshots have been pretty awesome so far.

It's realtime but no actual gameplay was shown. They were rotating the camera in real-time during the E3 demonstration movie.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by AcerBandit

Aw, they're coming standard issue blu ray boxes? Ugh. I dunno.

DVD games come in standard DVD boxes...CD based games came in CD jewel cases....

The Blu-Ray packaging is actually pretty high quality.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Sony just sold me a PS3 with White Knight Story. Level 5 has easily become my most watched game developer and they just get better with every game they make.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by RacinReaver

How much does a setup cost nowadays that lets you see graphics like this?

Because I'm guessing the PS3 will look pretty similar to the ultra-smooth games (like Ace Combat/Ratchet & Clank) on my 15 year old CRT, how much of a real boost can I expect when playing?

Well a good quality, 30ish inch LCD HDTV runs at about $900 at the moment where lower quality screens can be found for about $600. A large price drop on HDTVs is expected this year around Christmas time as well.

Another option is LCD monitors. You can get a 20-inch widescreen from Dell for about $370 and can pick up a HDMI-to-DVI cable for ~$10.

As for getting an idea on the boost in quality, play a modern PC game at 640x480 resolution then kick it up to 1280x1024. That's pretty much the difference in quality between a SD and HD signal.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by RacinReaver

I'm asking about the quality improvement from a PS2 to PS3 on an older CRT, not to new technologies (I've seen that plenty whenever I walk into my local Best Buy).

Heh, and it's a shame I bought my LCD display back when they were pretty expensive. I had a really tiny-ass dorm room and wanted enough space on my desk to put both my keyboard, monitor, and a textbook, so I forked out $450 for a really nice 17" Dell monitor (it was a steal at the time, too!). The monitor's still looking beautiful, so I doubt I'll want to replace it any time soon, and there's no way I'm going to be able to drop $600 on a new TV, so I guess I'm stuck with old technology for another generation.

Oh, sorry for my misunderstanding. But yes you'll still see a substantial increase in quality going from a PS2 to a PS3 while using the same screen. The much higher polygon count, sharper textures, far draw distances, smoother animation and higher frame rates the PS3 offers over the PS2 will still be highly noticeable especially on a CRT that can support resolutions above 640x480. You may lose a bit of sharpness having to covert from HDMI to DVI then from DVI to VGA but it wouldn't be a huge loss of quality. This is assuming the CRT does not have a DVI cable, which most do not.

Again, considering PC games try playing Morrowind at say 800x600 at max detail then move to Oblivion using 800x600 max detail. Even at the same resolution, Oblivion is obviously going to look far better thanks to higher capabilities of the Oblivion engine.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Quote:

Resistance, to be honest, is only 22GB because of the uncompressed 7.1 channel audio they have stored there. Its not high resolution textures because that would accomplish nothing, since the bandwidth would remain the same. The game, proper, is probably just a few gigs.

I really don't believe this to be the case. The developers of Lair are also claiming around 25GB for their game as well as stating that each level runs at about 4GB each.

The uncompressed argument is stupid because developers are well aware uncompressed textures will take a long time to load, plus we aren't dealing with large backbuffers or texture memory on the PS3. Simply put textures aren't uncompressed. The PS3 simply does not have the Blu-Ray-to-memory bandwidth or the memory capacity to deal with uncompressed 1500x1500+ textures.

Same deal with uncompressed sound. I'm willing to bet they don't have the optical disc bandwidth leftover to be streaming 3Mpbs for 7.1 uncompressed audio, and they sure as hell don't have the system memory to be loading that kind of audio in memory.

What is most likely is eating up the space is texture variety. Normally we are used to seeing developers re-use textures. For example the rock texture in level 1, 3 and 10 are really just the same texture being reused. With these larger games I imagine the rock textures for level 1, 3, and 10 will all be different. Another example is enemy textures. Games have a tendency to just reuse the same models for the same enemies in each level. I'm willing to bet the enemy soldiers in level 1 of Lair will be using a completely different texture set from the enemy soldiers in level 2 of lair.

Give them the space and developers will use it. No doubt we will see a nice variety of different looking areas in most PS3 games since developers can afford to create a completely new texture set for each area with the capacity Blu-Ray offers.

There's nowhere I can't reach.