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if any pigs try to taze me imma pull out my gat
usa usa usa There's nowhere I can't reach. |
This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it. |
The Largest Street Gang in America hint: It's cops
Preview: The first case on this video is about a sixteen year old boy who was walking on an overpass, fell over, and then was tased by officers on the ground below 11 times. I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body? |
There's not much justification for the cops' actions in the first half of that video, but the principle behind the second part doesn't strike me as blue wall of silence so much as sound reasoning (even if some of those officers are way too edgy for their own good). I fully expect people would take a form home with them and fill it out with falsified info just to put pressure on police or to try to leverage money from the dept.
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Last edited by Skexis; Aug 22, 2009 at 02:29 PM.
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Fuck you. Nobody is obligated to identify themselves to a police officer for access to internal affairs. The idea that cops can ever be justified in intimidating citizens is wrong thinking.
What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now? |
If I had a complaint with an officer and I didn't want to give them my identification, I would say "I'm not comfortable giving you that info." Which tells the officer a lot more than "Nah, that's cool" and trying quickly to walk away. I can understand the reasoning behind not wanting to get into the details of a complaint against an officer, and I can see a law-abiding citizen not wanting to do so. I really can. But without anything to go on, why should the opposite be true of Police and subvert the public trust by allowing everyone to get the form and make up details/injuries later? FELIPE NO |
ok I'm going to roleplay a cop for a second
I'm going to need to see your ID. If you're going to file a complaint I need to see some identification.
What, you don't want my bikini-clad body? |
At no point do you want to give them ammunition for "resisting arrest" or "disorderly conduct." Unfortunately a lot of the people in the second chapter do. Of course, this is Texas penal code, so some states may have it tougher than others. My point is that there's a way to avoid a confrontation, and if an officer tells you to leave, then staying there and persisting with the same question he's refused to answer is really just stupid. Don't poke the bear. Accept the reality that's right in front of you and go through a different channel. Jam it back in, in the dark. |
Okay, except the testers weren't dressed or behaving like a pleasant white guy, Skexis. The whole point of the test is to demonstrate how police departments disenfranchise people, and the people they disenfranchise are going to be poor minorities, with poor communication skills. Or did you not pick up on the fact that the testers were ex-cops and knew exactly how they could handle police if they really wanted a form?
There's nowhere I can't reach. |
This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it. |
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I was speaking idiomatically. I have nothing clever to put here. |
I don't think there is a goddamn abracadabra phrase, I think there's a way to appeal to someone's sense of right and wrong without being foolish. You're whitewashing the whole thing, though. Parts of the video were worse than others, and suggesting I approve of strip searching an assault victim without cause serves your own ego better than any point you wanted to make. The bottom line is that if cops didn't practice preventative measures (i.e. detaining suspicious people) then everyone would be up in arms about how many murderers, drug dealers and rapists were simply walking the streets. The fact that cops have a great deal of flexibility in how and why they detain people is what you're angry at. Not the fact that anyone can't walk in and get a form without at least the scarcest of details. And if you could not treat me like a five year old, that would be just peachy too. Brady, the point of the video I saw (in plain writing, no less) was that the cops pressure anyone and everyone regardless of color or creed into doing what they say just because they're all power-hungry. Which is not true. What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now? |
Attitudes Towards armed officers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwDZjS2BT08 FELIPE NO
Last edited by Starf**kers Inc; Aug 23, 2009 at 09:32 PM.
Reason: embedded video didnt show
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I whole-heartedly believe that your "just say this" statement is false and grounded in naivete. You don't have to give them ammunition for disorderly conduct, they can find it themselves. Also if you can explain to me how preventative measures come in when asking for complaint forms plz What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?
Last edited by Sarag; Aug 23, 2009 at 09:48 PM.
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I am resistant to what amounts to a propaganda video. Yes, some officers can and will abuse their power, because the nature of the job is such that it will attract power-hungry people. But my original post was discussing the principle behind why the officers would not want to give the form out and not the actions of the officers.
The 'ammunition' thing was the wrong way to say what I wanted. Aside from arresting people who are clearly guilty due to evidence in hand, officers have a duty to keep crimes from being committed, and part of that is detaining people who may have or may be intending to commit a crime. Asking for a form, obviously is not a crime, since I've already granted that a person should have a right to get a complaint form, but if your behavior is such that you are fidgety and/or avoid direct questioning, that is suspicious, and makes a cop wonder what you have to hide. Maybe it's nothing. But it's within their power to detain a person (not arrest them) for something like that. I don't have to agree with it to know it's true when I walk into a station and ask for a form. Which is why I phrased the response like I did, straightforwardly, addressing their concerns if not their questions. Jam it back in, in the dark. |
Fuck principles. They are public servants, and it is their duty to serve requested forms.
So long as police unions keep using their dues to fight prosecutions of officers under investigation for abuses of power to murder, all police are culpable for those crimes. Excusing their behavior is the source of the problem. Americans have this bizarre infatuation with power and a deference to authority that should not exist in a free society. Who gives a shit if somebody is acting suspicious? Acting suspicious is not a crime. Most amazing jew boots |
A few days ago, reading this thread, tighter taser procedures struck me as a very good idea. It still does. But I can think that, and still simultaneously understand the hesitation an officer would feel at giving out a form to someone clearly agitated and trying at all costs to avoid police contact of any kind (not simply with the officer they're accusing.) Don't make me out to be a bad guy simply because I'm not calling for blood in 100% of cases shown here. This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it. |
100% of the cases shown here are clear abuses of police power. If you aren't calling for blood then you are in fact the bad guy.
Looking at things from the police perspective is irrelevant. If we did, though, we'd have to arrive at the realization that the police are belligerent to any attack or complaint against officers or departments because the police are in effect a class of their own. Police unions are uniquely evil in that the nature of police work means that abuses of power are an inevitability, either by accident or intent. It's in the interest of every cop to cover each other's ass lest they end up finding themselves being buttfucked by some liberal prosecutor as well. That is the brotherhood of police, that is the blue wall of silence. I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body? |
I was speaking idiomatically. |
With neither of us being in the police and having first hand experience, I don't think there's much more to say except "I believe differently." I acknowledge the blue wall of silence exists, and I acknowledge the need for watchdog groups, but I don't say it's universal.
Maybe it is naivete. I'm certainly no stranger to it. But this whole form scenario strikes me less as clear cut abuse and more as social norms colliding. (i.e. duty as an officer vs. duty to community)
How ya doing, buddy?
Last edited by Skexis; Aug 24, 2009 at 12:51 PM.
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FELIPE NO |
Is it sad that you can't simply get the form from anywhere and anyone you like? Yeah. Unfortunately that's kind of the way the world works. It just so happens personal grievances against police officers isn't high on a lot of congresspeople's priority lists right now. What, you don't want my bikini-clad body? |
This coming from the guy who would just calmly and rationally discuss why he is not going to provide identification to a pissed-off cop?
Yeah, I'm buying your reality check. Jam it back in, in the dark. |
"I"m Jackson Awesomeface, and you need to give me a complaint form. What about? How about Officer Tweedledee that punched me in the face for a traffic stop on August 18. You need my license? Here." But I couldn't do that for obvious reasons because we're talking about people who are scared of the police and refuse to give out their info. There's nowhere I can't reach. |
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