Theological Discussion

I'll come across as stupid if I say this, but then, I already am.

Almost all the things we've invented are based on belief(truths in our sense, but might not really be 'truth') that they will hold true, and if the same variables are repeated, the same thing will come out.

That's in a way, a sub-purpose of science, replication of an event, to our benefit. But since the more complex theories are based on much simpler, but generally accepted 'axioms', we tend to think we are building on solid foundation.

For instance, the '2+2=4 'statement'.' We think it's true, because our hands add up to that value. Then, from such a statement, we build it up, to more complex multiplications, and then to higher levels.

If suddenly 2+2 is no longer 4.

We believe in that statement, and we think it is unbreakable.

We use the same kind of logic when it comes to god. If it is what I see it is, and, when I do the same thing, I get the same results, I think it's true.

Eh.

Dark Nation, can I ask u?

What is the implication of Faith and Belief being 2 sides of the same coin? If it is proven to be from the same coin, how would that affect the discussion?

FELIPE NO

I agree with the Dark Nations, "theory." Recently I've started looking more into psychological sides of my faith, & of other faiths. There is this newer concept of a holographic universe, though it's conclusion most of the time I disagree with.

In my own stance on this theory is that whatever some one thinks, becomes fact to that person. If they believe it enough, it's real to them. That's one of the foundations of every religion, faiths, everyday things. Like when your hypnotized. I've seen some really weird crazy stuff happen when someone is in this state. You can tell someone they are a chicken & they'll do their best version of what a chicken is. If someone believes a person can heal them enough, they'll most likely get healed, regardless of the "healers" abilities.

That's a fact (or is it belief?) of humanity. That what you beleive in & have faith in, is ultimately what is real to you. Heck, speaking in my faith, there are numerous references to this type of thought in my own holy book. Jesus said himself, "by your faith, you've been healed." This not even considering pack mentality, but that's a whole other subject.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Thanatos

Dark Nation, can I ask u?

What is the implication of Faith and Belief being 2 sides of the same coin? If it is proven to be from the same coin, how would that affect the discussion?

Ehh... well I suppose I was getting a bit sick of the whole pretentious attitude I had built myself up for in my discussion, but sometimes the brain does strange things. I think I was half-way being silly/dramatic to be dramatic

but... I guess if there was any implication, it would mean that Faith and Fact stem from a common source of origin, which is kind of obvious already. Two sides of the same coin is a tired expression, and I was tired, so it stacked itself against my logic, and so a better term was not available, haha.

Da Joker: So, are you suggesting that if someone were to find something as fact, and believe it in it so much, that while the science of why something occured wasn't explained, it was and had become real for them, in thier own personal reality?

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Basically. I do believe that a persons mind is extremely powerful. So much so, that whatever that person believes is fact. One just has to look into a sanitarium. Although this type of example is the extreme. Propaganda works the same way. That's why thousands of people can be talked into doing horible things sometimes. I believe we're hardwired with this need for belief in something. Be it a God, be it nature, or even in instincts.

What a person believes in, if they truely believe in it, is their reality. Having said that, one persons belief will not change what exist in someone else's view, nor will it change the actual foundational reality. I hope that made sense. That foundational reality varying, which is why there are so many belief systems. My particular view of reality is a very down to earth, day by day Christian life, with Christian morals & faith in Christ Jesus & all he stood for, be it in the OT or NT. That is my reality, though it's governed by a set of rules & regulations in a book. I'm still learning what it says, means, & how to apply them.

How ya doing, buddy?

Having just glanced in here, and seeing thanatos' quote of Dark Nation, I've been moved to share something with you folks. This feller here mentioned something striking (to me) about the relation of faith to fact. Perhaps a read would be worth something: http://www.baen.com/chapters/W200407...8288.htm?blurb

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.