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Senate bill fines people refusing health coverage
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Dark Nation
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Old Aug 12, 2011, 07:14 PM Local time: Aug 12, 2011, 05:14 PM #26 of 44
Two years later, a major update to the topic appears.

*ahem*

A U.S. Appeals court strikes down the health insurance individual mandate requirement from the Healthcare Legislation.

Appeals court strikes health insurance requirement - Yahoo! News

Quote:
ATLANTA (AP) ? A federal appeals panel struck down the centerpiece of President Barack Obama's sweeping health care overhaul Friday, moving the argument over whether Americans can be required to buy health insurance a step closer to the U.S. Supreme Court.

The divided three-judge panel of the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals concluded Congress overstepped its authority when lawmakers passed the so-called individual mandate, the first such decision by a federal appeals court. It's a stinging blow to Obama's signature legislative achievement, as most experts agree the requirement that Americans carry health insurance — or face tax penalties — is the foundation for other parts of the law.

Chief Judge Joel Dubina and Circuit Judge Frank Hull found in a 207-page opinion that lawmakers cannot require residents to "enter into contracts with private insurance companies for the purchase of an expensive product from the time they are born until the time they die."
This requirement was one sticking point that I had a personal and strong disagreement with. Its one thing to want to have everyone covered, but to make it legally binding that you MUST buy insurance or be fined? FUCK THAT, imo. Also, since its only an Appellate court, it doesn't mean the fight is over, but its a start. Thoughts?

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Old Aug 12, 2011, 07:59 PM #27 of 44
What is the functional difference between that and universal health care paid by tax dollars?

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Old Aug 12, 2011, 10:06 PM 1 #28 of 44
The functional difference is that with universal health care there's a government rate for it, while the individual mandate could leave people in a shitty position of having to choose between multiple avenues of coverage that doesn't fit them.

So in the end, sure, everyone has health care, but in one case you're just given it and in the other you're told to get it OR ELSE.

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Old Aug 12, 2011, 10:20 PM Local time: Aug 12, 2011, 09:20 PM 1 #29 of 44
Being forced into choosing which of the most corrupt, non-functional health companies you deal with isn't universal health care. Universal health care is regulating the health companies so they aren't a for-profit business, but rather exist purely to provide care.

I was speaking idiomatically.


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Old Aug 13, 2011, 03:42 AM Local time: Aug 13, 2011, 01:42 AM #30 of 44
Maybe it's the innate Asian in me that thinks this way; doctors should be paid to keep you healthy, not grip out all your savings and your grandchild's Morgage to pay for your care when they fuck up and don't prevent you from getting sick. I think that's also another problem with health care cost, we talk a lot about how fucking expensive it is to keep our sick medicated or cared for or how many kids need Ritalin, but nearly or barely not enough talk about investing in methods of *keeping* people healthy. That includes investing in educating people to eat better and such.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?
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Old Aug 13, 2011, 12:35 PM #31 of 44
The functional difference is that with universal health care there's a government rate for it, while the individual mandate could leave people in a shitty position of having to choose between multiple avenues of coverage that doesn't fit them.

So in the end, sure, everyone has health care, but in one case you're just given it and in the other you're told to get it OR ELSE.
Well I agree that universal health care w/ a not-for-profit system would be the best, and that's what I want, and I'm totally willing to pay more in taxes to make it happen. In lieu of that though,

actually honestly scratch that thought, really the only thing that should be done (and that can be done to benefit the taxpayer) is to end the for-profit medical institution. I have no interest in protecting the profit margin of companies that have no interest in protecting my profit margin (or take-home pay, you know, whatever).



apropos to this conversation: Open enrollment is going on with my employer. I have the option of picking up their health insurance, or staying on COBRA for the next year. My COBRA payments are $600 a month, for one person; the monthly payments for my company are significantly cheaper but the coverage is such that my COBRA coverage is actually cheaper in the long run. It has nothing to do with doctors being out of network, and I'm not riddled with cancer, preggers, or supporting a family. This is such bullshit.

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Old Aug 13, 2011, 01:58 PM Local time: Aug 13, 2011, 11:58 AM #32 of 44
For some time now, the individual mandate has been on appeal to the Supreme Court.

This 6th circuit decision had previously ruled it constitutional, and now that we have conflicting circuit decisions, only the Supreme Court can make a definitive ruling.

Given the nature of the legislation, they should take up the case soon enough to decide it before any of the mandates start to kick in.

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Old Aug 15, 2011, 09:49 AM Local time: Aug 15, 2011, 07:49 AM #33 of 44
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Maybe it's the innate Asian in me that thinks this way; doctors should be paid to keep you healthy, not grip out all your savings and your grandchild's Morgage to pay for your care when they fuck up and don't prevent you from getting sick. I think that's also another problem with health care cost, we talk a lot about how fucking expensive it is to keep our sick medicated or cared for or how many kids need Ritalin, but nearly or barely not enough talk about investing in methods of *keeping* people healthy. That includes investing in educating people to eat better and such.
How many people do you know that actually go to the doctor when they're healthy?

That said, I do think it's kinda hilarious how health care companies only want to put money out once you're already sick. After my dad had a heart attack they gave him access to weight loss therapy classes for two months. He lost a bunch of weight, was eating better, and pretty much doing everything correctly. Insurance goes "Oh, you're doing fine now, go find somewhere else to exercise" and that pretty much knocked him off his momentum and he couldn't find another place with similar facilities nearby, so he regained most of what he had lost. Fast forward a year or so and there's another mild event, back in the hospital, and then insurance covers two more months of weight therapy (until it ended last month). He'd even be willing to pay for the stuff himself, but you can only get access to the place through insurance.

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