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Changes in Uematsu's style
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eriol33
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Old Jun 14, 2006, 12:42 PM Local time: Jun 15, 2006, 12:42 AM #1 of 40
Lightbulb Changes in Uematsu's style

I guess you know what I mean from the title. I actually want to start discussion. Maybe it's just me, but I feel that Uematsu's composition style has been changed since the last Final Fantasy series he worked as full-time composer, despite Noriko Matsueda and Hamauzu also took part in the composition, yeah, I talk about FF X. I feel that FF X is the last game when Uematsu was at his finest

Or maybe it's because Squaresoft become Square Enix and he left from the company, working as freelancer, and due the fact that he only compose the main themes, not the entire soundtrack (like in FFTA, FFXII)? Perhaps because he doesnt compose much except main themes, is the factor that made me feel his style "changed"? Because we dont have much chances listening to his other compositions?

Tell me what do you think about this.

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Old Jun 14, 2006, 12:50 PM Local time: Jun 14, 2006, 10:50 AM #2 of 40
He's been working on a lot of other stuff lately, he only has just enough time left to compose main themes at the moment. There was what, Blue Dragon, and now Lost Oddysey, and Cry On.

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Klondike
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Old Jun 14, 2006, 01:10 PM #3 of 40
His work in FFXI (albeit there's not much) is awesome. Listen to the airship theme in FFXI, and tell me that doesn't sound right out of FF9.

If you look at a composer breakdown for who did the work in FFTA, Uematsu only did the main theme, and then Sakimoto did most of the tracks, *except* most of the main battle tracks (the most important tracks, right?). These were all done by a few other no-names. Though with their clear talent, hopefully they won't be no names for long. This includes "Battle of Hope" and "Painful Battle", probably the two best songs on the OST.

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Old Jun 14, 2006, 01:23 PM Local time: Jun 14, 2006, 03:23 PM #4 of 40
Originally Posted by Klondike
His work in FFXI (albeit there's not much) is awesome. Listen to the airship theme in FFXI, and tell me that doesn't sound right out of FF9.

If you look at a composer breakdown for who did the work in FFTA, Uematsu only did the main theme, and then Sakimoto did most of the tracks, *except* most of the main battle tracks (the most important tracks, right?). These were all done by a few other no-names. Though with their clear talent, hopefully they won't be no names for long. This includes "Battle of Hope" and "Painful Battle", probably the two best songs on the OST.
Those two themes you mention are composed by Ayako Saso. Please, look here and tell me she is still a no-name composer In case you don't know, she is Shinji Hosoe's longtime composing partner, since the old Namco days in the late '80s.

For Uematsu's style having changed, I disagree. You still sense his old-school style even in the latest Mistwalker samples offered so far.

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orion_mk3
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Old Jun 14, 2006, 01:56 PM #5 of 40
I wouldn't say that Uematsu's style has changed per se; one of the things about him (and, indeed, about many VGM composers) is that he is able to cross many genre lines in composition.

No, I'd say that the style is the same, but the quality has decreased, as has the quantity.

Let me elaborate: for the most recent generations of Final Fantasy games (Uematsu's best-known franchise work), he composed anywhere from 2 to 5 discs worth of music. Even taking looping into account, that's a huge volume of work. The best OSTs of the bunch had near-continuous good music, with little or no filler material, while the worst featured excellent highlights counterbalanced with significant filler (in the form of reprises of dull melodies like Oeilvert).

Compare this to Uematsu's recent work on that same series. He wrote roughly a third of FFX and a fourth of FFXI, with single-track-only contributions to FFXII and FFTA. While many of his songs in these lower-volume efforts remains stellar, there are also significant amounts of filler.

So, in my view, Uematsu's work since 2000 has been characterized by 1) fewer tracks composed overall and 2) a higher ratio of poor/boring "filler" to high-quality material. He's still capable of producing stunning music that fits both musically and stylistically with earlier work, but at a much slower pace and with more misfires.

I was speaking idiomatically.
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Old Jun 14, 2006, 02:00 PM Local time: Jun 14, 2006, 08:00 PM #6 of 40
Originally Posted by eriol
I feel that FF X is the last game when Uematsu was at his finest
Couldn't disagree more. FFX was Uematsu's lowest hour, with tracks that were nearly worthless (Temple of Djose, Ride the Shoopuf, all of Seymour's themes except for Seymour Battle...) and only a few highlights (To Zanarkand, Silence Before the Storm...). Although his PlayStation Final Fantasy scores had a problem with consistency, it wasn't as evident as in FFX.

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Old Jun 14, 2006, 03:15 PM #7 of 40
FFVI was the last soundtrack of his that I'm able to listen to all the way through. Everything after has filler that I tend to skip.

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Old Jun 14, 2006, 11:56 PM #8 of 40
I really have enjoyed most of his music so far. I don't think that his music has gone downward or even changed in the least. I have a feeling that the merger between Square and Enix has affected him in some way, though. I think that with Uematsu working on the Mistwalker titles, will be a good change (especially since Sakaguchi employed him). I would love to see another FF OST with just Uematsu, but it seems that won't ever happen. However, Blue Dragon, Lost Odyssey, and Cry On are titles that I look forward to.

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Old Jun 15, 2006, 01:52 AM Local time: Jun 15, 2006, 02:52 PM #9 of 40
Blue Dragon,Lost Oddysey make a new sense of me.Cry On?What's it?

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Old Jun 15, 2006, 04:03 AM Local time: Jun 15, 2006, 09:03 AM #10 of 40
Originally Posted by Josh_1
However, Blue Dragon, Lost Odyssey, and Cry On are titles that I look forward to.
Btw, anyone knows when they will finally come out? We now that Uematsu is working on these Soundtracks for a very long time now. I would like to hear new "Uematsu-only" soundtracks, because I think it's hard to say that Uematsu's style has changed after FFX, just because you haven't so much stuff by him after FFX to compare it with his older stuff.

But I don't think, he's getting worse. Some of his contributions to FFXI are damn outstanding and I like a lot of his stuff in Hanjuku Hero VS 3D as well. I know there are a lot of NES-ish tracks, but also some great powerful and even epic ones, and I think they are awesome.

But, as I said before, it's hard to say, because there isn't so much "newer" Uematsu-material out there, so I'm looking forward to the Mistwalker-games as well.

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Old Jun 15, 2006, 08:53 AM Local time: Jun 15, 2006, 06:53 AM #11 of 40
Personally I would like to know how much experience he has in arranging and orchestration. I love a lot of his music, but I don't know if that's more due to his orchestrators' effort than his own.

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Old Jun 15, 2006, 10:10 AM #12 of 40
Originally Posted by Cellius
Personally I would like to know how much experience he has in arranging and orchestration. I love a lot of his music, but I don't know if that's more due to his orchestrators' effort than his own.
I hate it when people give orchestrators/arrangers all the credit. It's essentially like saying a composer has no talent and does no work but takes all the credit.

Uematsu hardly ever uses an orchestrator since he hardly ever uses an orchestra; that said, he could have used a better one to help match his music to the action in "Advent Children."

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Old Jun 15, 2006, 12:05 PM Local time: Jun 15, 2006, 10:05 AM #13 of 40
Originally Posted by orion_mk3
I hate it when people give orchestrators/arrangers all the credit. It's essentially like saying a composer has no talent and does no work but takes all the credit.
Is that what you gleaned from my suggestion? Yikes.

Originally Posted by orion_mk3
Uematsu hardly ever uses an orchestrator since he hardly ever uses an orchestra.
Proof please.

I was speaking idiomatically.
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Old Jun 15, 2006, 12:34 PM #14 of 40
Originally Posted by Cellius
Proof please.
It's not really a question of proof, more a question of semantics. To orchestrate, you need an orchestra.

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Cobalt Katze
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Old Jun 15, 2006, 01:30 PM Local time: Jun 15, 2006, 10:30 AM #15 of 40
Well, technically an orchestrator takes either sketches, a piano score, or a midi mockup and writes it out for multiple instruments, usually of an orchestra-size ensemble, sometimes less. I've done orchestration work that involved taking a piano score and writing it out for organ, flute and violin. So no, orchestration isn't just limited to an orchestra. It's just where the word originated.

As far as Uematsu's concerned, I'm pretty certain his usual midi/synth work is a solo gig as far as composition goes. When an orchestra comes into play, like for Liberi Fatili or One Winged Angel, yeah and orchestrator is brought into the mix. But, on Orion's side, they mainly make the piece orchestra-friendly and add color or techniques only an orchestra would do as opposed to midi. Compare the original version of One Winged Angel or FF7's World Map to their orchestrated versions on Reunion Tracks. You'll find that most of the music is already there, but the orchestrator added his/her own little touches to things as well as adding flourishes or sections that made it a through-composed piece as opposed to looping BGM.

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Last edited by Cobalt Katze; Jun 15, 2006 at 01:38 PM.
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Old Jun 15, 2006, 02:45 PM Local time: Jun 15, 2006, 12:45 PM #16 of 40
Originally Posted by Cobalt Katze
As far as Uematsu's concerned, I'm pretty certain his usual midi/synth work is a solo gig as far as composition goes.
This is mainly what I'd like confirmation on: whether what we hear in the game is completely his work.

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Old Jun 15, 2006, 05:10 PM Local time: Jun 15, 2006, 02:10 PM #17 of 40
Originally Posted by Cellius
This is mainly what I'd like confirmation on: whether what we hear in the game is completely his work.
That's usually what "Composed, Arranged and Produced by" means on an OST's credits yes? Unless you count a synth/audio programmer as having a greater role in what we hear in game

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Old Jun 20, 2006, 01:12 PM Local time: Jun 20, 2006, 07:12 PM #18 of 40
Apparantly Uematsu has composed the trailer music to Smash Bros. Brawl, though it hasn't been said whether he is doing more work for the game

But it is said that the games' score with be made up of live orchestra with a latin choir - deja vu the latin part??

(Source - wikipedia (Nobuo Uematsu, SSBros. Brawl))

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Last edited by Argentis; Jun 20, 2006 at 01:17 PM.
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Old Jun 20, 2006, 01:20 PM Local time: Jun 20, 2006, 10:20 AM #19 of 40
Originally Posted by Uematsu Interview
N-Sider: How much involvement do you have with the project?

Uematsu: It's just actually the one song, the title song, that I was asked to write, and that was a real surprise, very nice to have that opportunity. I didn't think it was really going to be a big deal, but it was really fun to work with and it turned out really good. (laughs)
(Source - http://www.n-sider.com/articleview.p...eid=518&page=4)

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Old Jun 20, 2006, 03:02 PM Local time: Jun 20, 2006, 10:02 PM #20 of 40
I first started to listen to Uematsu at FFVI, and have then been following him for the later FF releases (as well as listened to his earlier stuff.)
I think almost everything up to and including FFIX was excellent (though IX is a bit repetetive, I still think it's a truly wonderful soundtrack).

Like Namakemono I feel that FFX was his absolute lowpoint (though there are a few tracks that I really like).
The stuff he contributed to FFXI is a mixed bag, but overall I like it very much. Especially the "main theme" (the opening track is one of the best ever from a FF soundtrack if you ask me).
I think the FFXII "love song" was awful.

I've only heard two things from Uematsu after that, and both were at the PLAY! Symphony concert at Stockholm. A track from Blue Dragon which wasn't bad, but far from anything special. A bit hard to take it in at an occasion like a live concert though.
On the other hand I absolutely loved the PLAY! Fanfare. Kinda weird at first, but the more I think about it the more I like it.

Looking forward to hearing stuff from him.

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Old Jun 21, 2006, 10:14 AM #21 of 40
Originally Posted by Dragon God
Those two themes you mention are composed by Ayako Saso. Please, look here and tell me she is still a no-name composer
She's still a no-name composer Even Shinji Hosoe is only escaping no-name status in the last year or so. I wish Saso wasn't a no-name, though. I *love* the Xevious 3D/G soundtrack, and seeing her list gives me some motivation to hunt down the Bushido Blade and Ridge Racer 2 soundtracks and give them a whirl.

There is no major difference in ratio between good/filler tracks in Uematsu's FFX/FFXI work and his older works. The soundtrack to FF6, 7, 8, and 9 are each several discs and feature tons of forgettable themes, along with like 15 or 20 amazing pieces. Which is still an exceptional number of amazing pieces for one game soundtrack (only SaGa Frontier 2 and Wild Arms 2 can replicate that performance for me), and that's what makes Uematsu great.

I was speaking idiomatically.
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Last edited by Klondike; Jun 22, 2006 at 09:15 AM.
eriol33
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Old Jun 21, 2006, 10:32 AM Local time: Jun 21, 2006, 10:32 PM #22 of 40
Sorry for bit Off topic. But isn't Shinji Hosoe the composer of Rockman EXE anime OST?

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?
You all think you got good deals, huh? Ha! You frugal and observant shoppers have more to learn.

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The Mr. Methane CD, purchased over ebay for .01¢. Yeah, free shipping. This guy performs all sorts of neat stuff, including the doot doot, doot doot from the Blue Danube.

Allow me to share a track from this CD. Here ya go.
I think he should have paid you .01¢ instead.
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Old Jun 21, 2006, 10:51 AM Local time: Jun 21, 2006, 12:51 PM #23 of 40
Originally Posted by eriol
Sorry for bit Off topic. But isn't Shinji Hosoe the composer of Rockman EXE anime OST?
Not that I'm aware of, he did compose Rockman EXE Network Transmission on GameCube with Ayako Saso and Yousuke Yasui though.

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Old Jun 21, 2006, 11:24 AM Local time: Jun 21, 2006, 07:24 PM #24 of 40
Originally Posted by Klondike
There is no major difference in ratio between good/filler tracks in Uematsu's FFX/FFXI work and his older works. The soundtrack to FF6, 7, 8, and 9 are each several discs and feature tons of forgettable themes, along with like 15 or 20 amazing pieces.
I disagree. There were only about 5 forgettable themes in FF6 compared to more than 50% filler in newer titles. Of course our definitions of filler may differ.

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Old Jun 21, 2006, 05:31 PM #25 of 40
^

What he said. I have been replaying FF7 and while I think parts of it are great (lousy synth excepting), there's still a lot of filler in there. It's stuff that worked fine in the game but on disc, it just drags.

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